Lawrence v Our Guy?

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

No we don’t even have to go that far.  If that whose name shall not be uttered is so ubertalented and just needs a new offensive coordinator and Rodgers mentoring him he should have no problem beating a Carson Wentz or Nick Foles in preseason for the backup job

When the moon moves into the seventh house and Jupiter aligns with Mars, he will finally be free to unlock his potential.

[derp]

On 6/14/2023 at 11:33 PM, FootballLove said:

ya I get all that. But what I see is a team in cap-hell with even more talent coming due in coming years, and most likely drafting near the end of every round. Soooo.....in your crystal ball, where is our 'next' FQB coming from? Seriously, where?

Stay good and trade up. Think it’s a total misconception you need to be drafting high to get a quarterback.

The Bills made the playoffs the 2017-2018 season before drafting Allen in 2018. The Ravens made the playoffs in 2017-2018 before drafting Lamar Jackson in 2018. The Chiefs had a bye the 2016-2017 season before drafting Mahomes in 2017. Those are three of the best young quarterbacks in the league. Maybe it’s a coincidence they landed on good teams, I’m not so sure it is.

Sometimes teams fall into good quarterbacks #1. If that doesn’t happen, recent history seems to show it’s way better for a good team to move up the board with a specific player in mind than it is for a very bad team to take the second or third best quarterback in the class. Former has several hits (also off field aside, the Texans made the playoffs then moved up for Watson - going way back Rodgers was drafted in the 20’s onto a good team). Latter is littered with busts.

[FootballLove]

1 hour ago, derp said:

Stay good and trade up. Think it’s a total misconception you need to be drafting high to get a quarterback.

The Bills made the playoffs the 2017-2018 season before drafting Allen in 2018. The Ravens made the playoffs in 2017-2018 before drafting Lamar Jackson in 2018. The Chiefs had a bye the 2016-2017 season before drafting Mahomes in 2017. Those are three of the best young quarterbacks in the league. Maybe it’s a coincidence they landed on good teams, I’m not so sure it is.

Sometimes teams fall into good quarterbacks #1. If that doesn’t happen, recent history seems to show it’s way better for a good team to move up the board with a specific player in mind than it is for a very bad team to take the second or third best quarterback in the class. Former has several hits (also off field aside, the Texans made the playoffs then moved up for Watson - going way back Rodgers was drafted in the 20’s onto a good team). Latter is littered with busts.

That's all good. But if AR goes as planned, Jets will be drafting near the bottom of each round, with no first rounder in the upcoming draft. So realistically, if Jets use the draft, 'trading up' will have to wait until the '25 draft when we have a late first round pick back. What's the draft capital cost to trade up from say, 30th to say, 10th (Mahomes) or 8th (Allen)?

And further, do you think a mid/late round rookie QB would be better than ZW (after ZW sits 2 years behind AR)? I guess anything's possible, but if you were betting your house, you'd almost have to (begrudgingly) go with ZW.

One avenue might be for JoeD to trade for some other team's rookie/2nd yr QB who looked really good in limited action (like that 9ers kid, or maybe someone like Taylor Heineke). Ditch Zack next year and let a different young QB sit behind Aaron for the last year.

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, FootballLove said:

That's all good. But if AR goes as planned, Jets will be drafting near the bottom of each round, with no first rounder in the upcoming draft. So realistically, if Jets use the draft, 'trading up' will have to wait until the '25 draft when we have a late first round pick back. What's the draft capital cost to trade up from say, 30th to say, 10th (Mahomes) or 8th (Allen)?

And further, do you think a mid/late round rookie QB would be better than ZW (after ZW sits 2 years behind AR)? I guess anything's possible, but if you were betting your house, you'd almost have to (begrudgingly) go with ZW.

One avenue might be for JoeD to trade for some other team's rookie/2nd yr QB who looked really good in limited action (like that 9ers kid, or maybe someone like Taylor Heineke). Ditch Zack next year and let a different young QB sit behind Aaron for the last year.

All fair but drafting late is a problem I’d like to have for once 

[derp]

27 minutes ago, FootballLove said:

That's all good. But if AR goes as planned, Jets will be drafting near the bottom of each round, with no first rounder in the upcoming draft. So realistically, if Jets use the draft, 'trading up' will have to wait until the '25 draft when we have a late first round pick back. What's the draft capital cost to trade up from say, 30th to say, 10th (Mahomes) or 8th (Allen)?

And further, do you think a mid/late round rookie QB would be better than ZW (after ZW sits 2 years behind AR)? I guess anything's possible, but if you were betting your house, you'd almost have to (begrudgingly) go with ZW.

One avenue might be for JoeD to trade for some other team's rookie/2nd yr QB who looked really good in limited action (like that 9ers kid, or maybe someone like Taylor Heineke). Ditch Zack next year and let a different young QB sit behind Aaron for the last year.

The Bills got creative and traded a player. Chiefs gave up a third and a future first to move from 27 to 10. There are ways.

Next year’s class should be pretty deep with experienced college players. You’re also talking about one year of Wilson versus four of the rookie. And I don’t think Wilson’s biggest problems are particularly fixable. So I don’t think I’d begrudgingly go with Wilson, personally.

Taylor Heinicke is 30.

[Jetsfan80]

6 hours ago, jgb said:

All fair but drafting late is a problem I’d like to have for once 

For sure.  It's not like picking early has helped us find a FQB either.  Especially since we never tank properly anyways.  

[Dunnie]

The Bills got creative and traded a player. Chiefs gave up a third and a future first to move from 27 to 10. There are ways.
Next year’s class should be pretty deep with experienced college players. You’re also talking about one year of Wilson versus four of the rookie. And I don’t think Wilson’s biggest problems are particularly fixable. So I don’t think I’d begrudgingly go with Wilson, personally.
Taylor Heinicke is 30.

Hopefully we get to see Zach sparingly a couple times before his contract is due to be extended.

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[win4ever]

I still stand by my take, Wilson was more impressive as a rookie than Lawrence.  The difference was that, Wilson regressed last year while Pederson did a great job of developing Lawrence.  They catered the offense to his strengths, and he made the jump.  I think it shows more towards how coaching impacts development than anything.  

[Jetsfan80]

47 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Hopefully we get to see Zach sparingly a couple times before his contract is due to be extended.

No

[FootballLove]

8 hours ago, derp said:

The Bills got creative and traded a player. Chiefs gave up a third and a future first to move from 27 to 10. There are ways.

Next year’s class should be pretty deep with experienced college players. You’re also talking about one year of Wilson versus four of the rookie. And I don’t think Wilson’s biggest problems are particularly fixable. So I don’t think I’d begrudgingly go with Wilson, personally.

Taylor Heinicke is 30.

Not sure how much I trust JoeD and Saleh to 'get it right' the 2nd time around. If having the #2 overall pick ended so badly, how 'good' can they possibly do picking in the middle of the round? They could end up trading ZW for Josh Rosen II.

Anyway, I guess I'll enjoy the Aaron Rodgers years and worry about it in a few years!

[Dunnie]

No

Yep

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[derp]

9 hours ago, FootballLove said:

Not sure how much I trust JoeD and Saleh to 'get it right' the 2nd time around. If having the #2 overall pick ended so badly, how 'good' can they possibly do picking in the middle of the round? They could end up trading ZW for Josh Rosen II.

Anyway, I guess I'll enjoy the Aaron Rodgers years and worry about it in a few years!

To an extent I don’t disagree, I fundamentally disagreed with the process behind the Wilson pick, and to an extent I think a guy drafted onto a better team would have a better chance at developing coming into a superior situation. Definitely a problem for the future.

[jgb]

9 hours ago, FootballLove said:

Not sure how much I trust JoeD and Saleh to 'get it right' the 2nd time around. If having the #2 overall pick ended so badly, how 'good' can they possibly do picking in the middle of the round? They could end up trading ZW for Josh Rosen II.

Anyway, I guess I'll enjoy the Aaron Rodgers years and worry about it in a few years!

The “good” news is that the extrapolating college QBs to the pros is the hardest thing in sport. I’m not so sure anyone has the magic formula — hence I agree with @Jetsfan80’s approach. Draft for measurables and basically hope for the best. Keep shootin’.

Wilson always felt like a 2nd round stab based on size to me.

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, derp said:

To an extent I don’t disagree, I fundamentally disagreed with the process behind the Wilson pick, and to an extent I think a guy drafted onto a better team would have a better chance at developing coming into a superior situation. Definitely a problem for the future.

Yeah I dunno. I think he just has no feel for the pro game. Maybe coaching could help somewhat, but to elevate him to a FQB? I just don’t see it.

[OilfieldJet]

21 hours ago, jgb said:

When the moon moves into the seventh house and Jupiter aligns with Mars, he will finally be free to unlock his potential.

Great tune.

[jgb]

3 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Yep

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FAKE JETS FAN WHO WANTS RODGERS TO GET HURT TO BE PROVEN RIGHT ON A MESSAGEBOARD!

[jtomm]

Lawrence

[cat999]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

FAKE JETS FAN WHO WANTS RODGERS TO GET HURT TO BE PROVEN RIGHT ON A MESSAGEBOARD!

Pretty ironic coming from a Jets fan who is delighted to be proved right after Lawrence had a far better second season than his team's QB   

[Dunnie]

FAKE JETS FAN WHO WANTS RODGERS TO GET HURT TO BE PROVEN RIGHT ON A MESSAGEBOARD!

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[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, cat999 said:

Pretty ironic coming from a Jets fan who is delighted to be proved right after Lawrence had a far better second season than his team's QB   

If we can't have a FQB, then being right is the only consolation prize.  

[jgb]

2 hours ago, cat999 said:

Pretty ironic coming from a Jets fan who is delighted to be proved right after Lawrence had a far better second season than his team's QB   

[Dunnie]

Fields was the pick
if we had fields and Wirfs right now, this is a super bowl contender

Fields is trash. At least to date ...

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[Rich Thornburgh]

On 6/17/2023 at 6:05 PM, Dunnie said:

Fields is trash. At least to date ...

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Well at least you are right about 1 quarterback 

[Rich Thornburgh]

On 6/17/2023 at 8:07 AM, jgb said:

Yeah I dunno. I think he just has no feel for the pro game. Maybe coaching could help somewhat, but to elevate him to a FQB? I just don’t see it.

It’s a very easy scapegoat 

[jgb]

40 minutes ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

It’s a very easy scapegoat 

We as a fanbase excel at that when it comes to poor QB play