Lawrence v Our Guy?

[Fantasy Island]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

And you know this from a bad read in a pre-season game?

Year two of blech 

[Spoot-Face]

2 hours ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Everyone is ready to move on from Wilson and start hating the next QB we draft

[More Cowbell]

9 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

It's just another bash Wilson thread. 

We're back to here now - where 3/4 of the board is - New threads so I can bash our young QB.

 And if the thread isn't about bashing Wilson we'll find a way to make it one.

Sad really.

You know, you can try to make a case for Wilson over Lawrence. Would be interesting to hear one.

[FidelioJet]

31 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

You know, you can try to make a case for Wilson over Lawrence. Would be interesting to hear one.

I’ve made the argument countless times prior to the draft. Feel free to look it up.  I saw nothing last year to change my mind on this.   

Are you suggesting Lawrence was good last year?  
They had pretty much the same season, except Lawrence doesn’t have a fan base that inexplicably despised him before being drafted and use every opportunity to express joy in their QB’s failures.  
Note: you’ve been mostly rational, not talking about you here. 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

1 hour ago, Spoot-Face said:

 

[BigRy56]

As of right now, they’re both sub par. IMO Wilson was better than Lawrence last year, but Wilson has now been hurt 2 years in a row. I’ll be ready to make my final decision after this season 

[T0mShane]

7 hours ago, nj meadowlands said:

Voting for Zach just cuz Shane sux

❤️

[Warfish]

11 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

It's just another bash Wilson thread. 

We're back to here now - where 3/4 of the board is - New threads so I can bash our young QB.

 And if the thread isn't about bashing Wilson we'll find a way to make it one.

Sad really.

I have literally run out of "Crying Like a Little Girl" gif's to respond to your endless repetitive whining about how bad you think Jets fans are.

[jetstream23]

17 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

 I would take any QB selected in the first round for the last 5 years over Zachapono with the exception of: In Bold

Kenny Pickett 

Trevor Lawrence

Trey Lance

Justin Fields

Mac Jones

Joe Burrow

Tua Tagovailoa

Justin Herbert

Jordan Love

Kyler Murray

Daniel Jones

Dwayne Haskins

Baker Mayfield

Sam Darnold

Josh Allen

Josh Rosen

Lamar Jackson

 

Other than Lawrence I'm not yet sold on ANY of the guys from last year including Zach.  That's what Year 2 is for.... for all of these guys.  I think Fields will be better than he looked, I think Mac Jones will level off and eventually be exposed a bit.  Zach and Lance have the two highest upsides in my opinion other than Lawrence (and I'm including Fields there).

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I have literally run out of "Crying Like a Little Girl" gif's to respond to your endless repetitive whining about how bad you think Jets fans are.

Stop acting like Crying Little Girls and I'll stop calling them that.

[More Cowbell]

4 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I’ve made the argument countless times prior to the draft. Feel free to look it up.  I saw nothing last year to change my mind on this.   

Are you suggesting Lawrence was good last year?  
They had pretty much the same season, except Lawrence doesn’t have a fan base that inexplicably despised him before being drafted and use every opportunity to express joy in their QB’s failures.  
Note: you’ve been mostly rational, not talking about you here. 

Lawrence started all 17 games and isn't injured now

[Dunnie]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

Lawrence started all 17 games and isn't injured now

i heard he has split ends ....

[Dunnie]

6 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

They had pretty much the same season, except Lawrence doesn’t have a fan base that inexplicably despised him before being drafted and use every opportunity to express joy in their QB’s failures.  

This is the new media jets fan ... spawned from the same 'ol jets fan ... an entity enamored with its own self flagellating existence and truly believes others would like a sniff ... so what did you expect ?

[Fantasy Island]

6 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

 

Other than Lawrence I'm not yet sold on ANY of the guys from last year including Zach.  That's what Year 2 is for.... for all of these guys.  I think Fields will be better than he looked, I think Mac Jones will level off and eventually be exposed a bit.  Zach and Lance have the two highest upsides in my opinion other than Lawrence (and I'm including Fields there).

I wish there was an upside to Zach, oh how  I wish, but there isn't.  It's not his fault.  He didn't draft himself 2nd overall.  

Back to the drawing board.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Zach = blond Mormon Sam Darnold with a better looking mom

[FidelioJet]

9 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Lawrence started all 17 games and isn't injured now

Surely. 

If you're talking about injury concerns with Wilson, I think that would be the biggest fear I have for the kid.  It would be naive to not have concerns.  I'm not ready to call Zach "injury prone" yet but it is a concern for sure.

 

[Dunnie]

Zach ... better arm talent , elite milf hunting skills, rich as ****

Trevor ... long hair ... ... .... long hair

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[batman10023]

On 8/17/2022 at 1:17 PM, win4ever said:

As much as I was against Wilson last year (preferred Fields), I thought he looked better than Lawrence.  

To me, Lawrence reminds me a TON of Darnold.  Lawrence's end last year reminds me of the optimism Darnold showed at the end of his rookie season (especially after the Green Bay game).  They both float back in the pocket, and throw off their back foot often, but I also saw a ton of scripted plays for Lawrence.  Part of it is the Meyer playbook, but he wasn't making many complicated reads, and struggled with making adjustments.  

Wilson sucked, but he sucked doing more complicated reads with worse players.  The Jags had Marvin Jones/Shenault at the end of the year, and both of them would start over the losers we trotted out there.  Berrios would start in the slot, but Lawrence had the better talent around him as well.  

Everyone goes nuts over his performance at the end of the year with the Colts, but gloss over the fact that they gave up 400 yards, 4 TDs to the Mike White/Josh Johnson combo last year as well.  That was a very up and down defense, that if you cracked them with good game planning, they weren't that good.   

I'm not saying Wilson is going to be a stud and Lawrence will suck, because they both have very good potential.  I'm just not buying this Lawrence ended the year great, so he's going to build on that momentum idea.  His college offense was incredibly simple, and that transition to the NFL is rough, which is very similar to the issue faced by Darnold.  He'll look great on scripted plays and then slowly decreases as the game goes on. 

Last year, Lawrence first quarter, second quarter, third quarter, and fourth quarter ratings in order:  94.4, 66.4, 67.1, and 67.5

In 2020, Darnold's first quarter, second quarter, third quarter, and fourth quarter ratings in order: 92.1, 70.9, 72.1, 54.8

For reference, Wilson, 49.9, 66.8, 82.3, and 75 - Nothing to write home about, but it shows better in game adjustment outside of the scripted plays.  

Lawrence when the game was within 7 points in the 4th quarter: 55.6 rating, Darnold in 2020 with us? 54.8  For reference, Wilson was at 100

A big reason why Darnold struggles is that he can't counter adjust to the defense changing their game plans and defensive shells, and I thought Lawrence showed issues with this as well.  Now, Peterson could take control and make those adjustments himself, but pure player for player, I take Wilson.  Maybe I'm scarred by Darnold, but Lawrence reminds me of the "Oh look at 2-4 games a year" Darnold.  Wilson sucked last year as well, but I thought he actually showed more mental capacity to decipher the game.  His biggest issue was mechanical, not setting his feet correctly on throws.  

I vote Wilson. 

I'm not arguing on injuries because that's just unpredictable.  

This stat from last year about 4th quarter performance within 7 points - Wilson was at 100 rating.  that's very good, do you know how big the sample size was for that.

My guess is that it is even better this year.

[hawk]

I haven't really followed their careers, however, at the time, I wanted Mac Jones.  

Again, without following them, and in hindsight, I am thinking Davis Mills may be the most intriguing.

That said, Zach is probably the most exciting, and if continues to grow, I believe he will be what this franchise has been looking for.

[Hal N of Provo]

18 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

This stat from last year about 4th quarter performance within 7 points - Wilson was at 100 rating.  that's very good, do you know how big the sample size was for that.

My guess is that it is even better this year.

I’m not even the one to start bumping the old threads…

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[batman10023]

2 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

I’m not even the one to start bumping the old threads…

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

it was an excellent stat - i went back and looked at some of his recent posts on the topic prior to the season.  very interesting analysis.  

[PorP]

On 8/17/2022 at 1:49 AM, jgb said:

Realtalk: both had bad rookie years and both faced intrinsic challenges: Jets bad wepqoniz and Jags the most dysfunctional situation in recent memory. 

If draft were held today and both were available, who do you take?

Realtalk  here

Don't use the term Realtalk unless you're 15....

[jgb]

 

[Fantasy Island]

How could 24 Jet fans be blinded by that boyish charm?

[jgb]

42 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

How could 24 Jet fans be blinded by that boyish charm?

Some of the same folks who are still carrying water for him after another year since this poll as worst QB in the league and with much better weaponzzz last season. They're dug in and will never let go until he's off the team.

[rangerous]

IMHO Lawrence has benefitted by having a much better coaching staff.  Zach not so much. Not to say Zach is or will be better but coaching is a huge factor.

[UntouchableCrew]

1 hour ago, rangerous said:

IMHO Lawrence has benefitted by having a much better coaching staff.  Zach not so much. Not to say Zach is or will be better but coaching is a huge factor.

Guy can't complete a swing pass behind the line of scrimmage and has the locker room on the verge of mutiny over his immaturity and lack of accountability but it's all the coaches fault.

[UntouchableCrew]

EDIT: Double Post

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, rangerous said:

IMHO Lawrence has benefitted by having a much better coaching staff.  Zach not so much. Not to say Zach is or will be better but coaching is a huge factor.

Yes, they both had real bad starts with coaches. Lawrence situation improved last year. it will be very interesting to see if Zach shows up with the Yips in pre-season. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

 

Everyone point and laugh at @kdels62, @FidelioJet, @GandWFan, @Bungaman, @pajet, @jbt, @Green hat, @Hex, @nj meadowlands, @ryu79, @NIGHT STALKER, @Thai Jet, @johnnysd, @BornJetsFan1983, @Alka, @cat999, @Dunnie, @xJayce, @shevys, @Out of Bounce, @Jared, @hawk, @jetsons and @OCCH23.

 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, rangerous said:

IMHO Lawrence has benefitted by having a much better coaching staff.  Zach not so much. Not to say Zach is or will be better but coaching is a huge factor.

Lawrence’s first coach was physically and verbally abusive.

Just stop.  

[GreenFish]

Not a crazy thread to be honest. Lawrence was not good his 1st year and he didnt turn it on until mid way into his 2nd year. Coaching matters.

What we know now is that rookie Lawrence was not able to overcome bad coaching but is very good with good coaching.

For Zach, we know he is bad with bad coaching. Is he bad with good coaching? My money is on yes he is just bad. But I wouldn't bet my house on that. 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Everyone point and laugh at @kdels62, @FidelioJet, @GandWFan, @Bungaman, @pajet, @jbt, @Green hat, @Hex, @nj meadowlands, @ryu79, @NIGHT STALKER, @Thai Jet, @johnnysd, @BornJetsFan1983, @Alka, @cat999, @Dunnie, @xJayce, @shevys, @Out of Bounce, @Jared, @hawk, @jetsons and @OCCH23.

 

And many of them still refuse to give up the ghost a year later with Lawrence taking a giant leap and Zach taking (another) giant dook in his pants.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, GreenFish said:

Not a crazy thread to be honest. Lawrence was not good his 1st year and he didnt turn it on until mid way into his 2nd year. Coaching matters.

What we know now is that rookie Lawrence was not able to overcome bad coaching but is very good with good coaching.

For Zach, we know he is bad with bad coaching. Is he bad with good coaching? My money is on yes he is just bad. But I wouldn't bet my house on that. 

Crazy thread?  No.

Crazy that anyone would have voted Zach over Lawrence at any point in their respective collegiate or pro careers?  Yes.  

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Lawrence’s first coach was physically and verbally abusive.

Just stop.  

Should put to rest once and for all that exposure to bad coaching “ruins a player FOREVER” arguments.