Jets signing Dalvin Cook? 6/9 Update Cook Released

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, Larz said:

Is this the guy who also scored low on the expected yards stat I think it was?

Yep.  He had his share of chunk plays last year but overall the #’s suggest he only took what the OL gave him and little more on most plays. 

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

How’s 4-6mill expensive though? That’s my point. If he wants more than that. I for sure don’t want him.

 

I guess I just don’t have the optimism in the guys after Hall that others do. 

I’m not optimistic about the guys after Breece either, but that doesn’t require adding Cook or Zeke.

Plenty of RB upgrades should spring loose during roster cutdowns, several of which will be better options than a washed up Zeke, so the best course of action is to wait on those.  

[JETS SB]

So everyone saying the Jets don’t need another running back. But do the Jets feel that way? They admitted they nearly drafted Jahmyr Gibbs in the FIRST ROUND. Sounds like the Jets aren’t comfortable with their RB room. If it isn’t Dalvin Cook, I wouldn’t be shocked if a guy like Kareem Hunt or Leonard Fournette ends up on the team. A veteran RB is something Rodgers has always had and utilizes often. 

My guess is it will be Cook. But we will see. 

[Bobby816]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I’m not optimistic about the guys after Breece either, but that doesn’t require adding Cook or Zeke.

Plenty of RB upgrades should spring loose during roster cutdowns, several of which will be better options than a washed up Zeke, so the best course of action is to wait on those.  

I’m not dead set on adding cook or Elliott. I actually really like Hunt as well. My main point is I think a more reliable vet should be brought in. I like any player we hopefully add, would rather them here sooner rather than later, to be able to go through tc and and all with us. If we add a guy their workload is heavier early on with Hall’s injury recovery. So the later they’re brought in, the worse it is.

[jgb]

10 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

I’d like more insurance behind Hall than what we have that’s rather all unproven or not very good. If we weren’t a win now team I’d be saying play the young guys. But we are a win now team. And I’d rather have a guy who’s lost a step that had 12 TDs and almost 900yds last year as the safety net. Not Carter who looked bad last year. Knight who was average at best. And an unproven guy in Izzy.

I don't understand at all why anyone would see a safety net at RB as important in a title run but not at QB.

QB2 is today the Jets biggest remaining need.

[slats]

10 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

How’s 4-6mill expensive though? That’s my point. If he wants more than that. I for sure don’t want him.

 

I guess I just don’t have the optimism in the guys after Hall that others do. 

That’s way too much. Hard pass. 

[Bobby816]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

I don't understand at all why anyone would see a safety net at RB as important in a title run but not at QB.

QB2 is today the Jets biggest remaining need.

Simple answers to that for me.

For starters... if we lose Rodgers, no matter who we have as a backup QB... we're no longer a SB contender. We lose Hall... we can still be.

Rodgers is healthy right now and has only missed 9 games in the last 9 seasons. He's not an injury risk.

Hall missed 10 games as a rookie. He with the small sample size. Is a HUGE injury risk. He also is likely not 100% come Week 1.

[Bobby816]

41 minutes ago, slats said:

That’s way too much. Hard pass. 

That's what I don't get. So let's say he costs 5mil. You trade Carter or Knight for next to nothing but free up that money and then cut Ashytn Davis. There's your 5mill.

[slats]

3 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

That's what I don't get. So let's say he costs 5mil. You trade Carter or Knight for next to nothing but free up that money and then cut Ashytn Davis. There's your 5mill.

Carter or Knight are both cheaply filling the role that you would hand to an expensive veteran. Ashtyn gets a lot of hate, but he’s a core special teamer on the field for 60% of those plays. What I don’t get is why you think a veteran back is necessary at all. When rosters get trimmed from 90 to 53, there will be a ton of RBs available, on the cheap, with a lot more in the tank than any of these vets you’re throwing around for a fraction of the cost. That’s how you fill the RB room, not with expensive guys on the downside of their careers. That’s why these guys are still available. They’re not worth what what want, or anything close to it. Sucks to be a RB these days, but that’s the market. 

[#27TheDominator]

10 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

An FYI… Elliott had 2 drops and 1 fumble last year. So where it looks like he doesn’t take care of the ball. That’s false. And isn’t he known as one of the better guys at picking up blitzes? That “pressure” stats seems bogus. Takes scheme, OL missing a block, etc out of it.

That leaves him 16 drops the prior 3 years. He only had 23 targets last season.  

[Bobby816]

6 minutes ago, slats said:

Carter or Knight are both cheaply filling the role that you would hand to an expensive veteran. Ashtyn gets a lot of hate, but he’s a core special teamer on the field for 60% of those plays. What I don’t get is why you think a veteran back is necessary at all. When rosters get trimmed from 90 to 53, there will be a ton of RBs available, on the cheap, with a lot more in the tank than any of these vets you’re throwing around for a fraction of the cost. That’s how you fill the RB room, not with expensive guys on the downside of their careers. That’s why these guys are still available. They’re not worth what what want, or anything close to it. Sucks to be a RB these days, but that’s the market. 

Why? Because I saw what our depth RBs can do last year. And I think the OL gets the blame for that. But the RBs were a ton to blame as well. Hall had no problem not only looking good behind our OL but elite. Losing AVT doesn't make a whole running game go from elite to bad. It's also because or RBs went from elite to bad.

 

As I said... if we weren't a win now team... I'd be more pro just letting the young guys roll. But we are a win now team. And I saw what Carter and Knight can do last year. And for me, that's not even close to enough for a SB contender with the question mark of Hall's health. And even if "healthy" he'd have to be eased in with a others getting 10-20 touches a game.

 

To also address what you said... since when is 5mill expensive for a player that will touch the ball 10-20 times a game? Especially with all the scrub guys we "can" cut.

[Bobby816]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

That leaves him 16 drops the prior 3 years. He only had 23 targets last season.  

If we're signing a vet RB. I don't think we're doing it for their receiving skills. We have Hall if and when healthy who can do that. And have a guy in Hardman that can work the screen game. I'm not worried about 2 drops Elliott had last year.

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, Bobby816 said:

If we're signing a vet RB. I don't think we're doing it for their receiving skills. We have Hall if and when healthy who can do that. And have a guy in Hardman that can work the screen game. I'm not worried about 2 drops Elliott had last year.

That's fair, but I'm supposed to be worried about Abanikanda's receiving skills?  

[Rich Thornburgh]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

I don't understand at all why anyone would see a safety net at RB as important in a title run but not at QB.

QB2 is today the Jets biggest remaining need.

What are you trying to imply?

[Bobby816]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

That's fair, but I'm supposed to be worried about Abanikanda's receiving skills?  

Izzy likely isn't getting much action as a rookie if we stay healthy at RB. He didn't catch the ball at Pitt. That doesn't neccasirly mean he cant catch the ball. But it'd be pretty idiotic for Pitt's coaching staff to not utilize him there if he could catch well. So I'll have to see how he develops. I don't want to say he can or cant catch the ball. Because right now... I don't really know.

[slats]

1 minute ago, Bobby816 said:

Why? Because I saw what our depth RBs can do last year. And I think the OL gets the blame for that. But the RBs were a ton to blame as well. Hall had no problem not only looking good behind our OL but elite. Losing AVT doesn't make a whole running game go from elite to bad. It's also because or RBs went from elite to bad.

 

As I said... if we weren't a win now team... I'd be more pro just letting the young guys roll. But we are a win now team. And I saw what Carter and Knight can do last year. And for me, that's not even close to enough for a SB contender with the question mark of Hall's health. And even if "healthy" he'd have to be eased in with a others getting 10-20 touches a game.

 

To also address what you said... since when is 5mill expensive for a player that will touch the ball 10-20 times a game? Especially with all the scrub guys we "can" cut.

A guy like Ezekiel Elliott has been a product of his OL for his entire career, and he’s losing it. Pollard averaged 5.2 ypc behind the same line that Elliot ran for 3.8, and he’s a guy who you think will elevate this OL? Or Cook, who takes what his OL gives him until he fumbles the ball. Neither is a great pass protector. I have no conception of what you believe the value these guys might bring for $4-6M. I’d rather bring in another OT for that money, it would be better spent there. 
 
As for your last question: it’s been a while now. The RB position has been devalued because it’s the easiest position to fill with a plug & play rookie. Just about every second RB contract eventually bites the team that commits to it in the ass. These guys we’re talking now have a ton of mileage on them and, if they’re not already washed, they will be soon. Simply not worth millions of dollars when there will be a ton of guys to choose from who’ll cost around $1M or so - should they even see the need to go get one. They have a star caliber back coming back from injury, by all accounts, well ahead of schedule. All signs point to him being ready for camp, and week one. 
 
I do think much of the blame for their poor performances the last half of the season were the injuries to the OL, and firmly believe that Cook or Elliot would’ve also sucked behind that same line. They’re not worth the money, that’s why they’re available. No one wants to pay them what they want. 

[#27TheDominator]

3 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Izzy likely isn't getting much action as a rookie if we stay healthy at RB. He didn't catch the ball at Pitt. That doesn't neccasirly mean he cant catch the ball. But it'd be pretty idiotic for Pitt's coaching staff to not utilize him there if he could catch well. So I'll have to see how he develops. I don't want to say he can or cant catch the ball. Because right now... I don't really know.

He was getting 120 yards a game and had 20 TDs.  Why waste time throwing to him?  He had 320 and 6 TDs against VaTech.  Is it a knock that he didn't have any catches?  It's not like he NEVER caught the ball.  He had twice as many receptions as a sophomore, but his use obviously went up.  I think he will get plenty of action and if he doesn't I think it is probably a bad sign. 

[JustInFudge]

54 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Izzy likely isn't getting much action as a rookie if we stay healthy at RB. He didn't catch the ball at Pitt. That doesn't neccasirly mean he cant catch the ball. But it'd be pretty idiotic for Pitt's coaching staff to not utilize him there if he could catch well. So I'll have to see how he develops. I don't want to say he can or cant catch the ball. Because right now... I don't really know.

Fun fact; Austin Ekeler was 5th overall in receptions in the NFL last season.  During his Senior year of college, he had 18 receptions, which is 6 more receptions than Israel Abanikanda had his senior year and 6 less then he had his junior year.  It's almost as if, players can evolve certain aspects of their game and/or maybe the system calls for different usage from their RB's.

[Jetsfan80]

6 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

I’m not dead set on adding cook or Elliott. I actually really like Hunt as well. My main point is I think a more reliable vet should be brought in. 

Plenty of reliable vets who are likely not much worse than Zeke will be readily available for cheap in 2 months, so again, why the rush?

Clyde Edwards-Helaire, Caleb Huntley, Eno Benjamin, Ronald Jones, Craig Reynolds.....none of these are "sexy" names but these are the types of veteran backs who will be available dirt cheap.  And given how "plug n play" the RB position is there's no reason a vet back can't contribute right away.

OR, continue to wait for guys like Cook, Zeke, Hunt, etc to lower their price once they realize how oversaturated and depressed the RB financial landscape is.

[jgb]

3 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Simple answers to that for me.

For starters... if we lose Rodgers, no matter who we have as a backup QB... we're no longer a SB contender. We lose Hall... we can still be.

For the zillionth time, there aren’t two binary outcomes: Rodgers plays all year or goes on season-ending IR. He could miss a couple quarters or games — concussion protocol, broken finger, etc etc.

It would be so ******* Jetsy to miss the playoffs by a game after committing $100 million to Rodgers because he misses a key game and we didn’t want to pay a measly few mill for someone better than Zach as a backup.

3 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Rodgers is healthy right now and has only missed 9 games in the last 9 seasons. He's not an injury risk.

My house has never burned down. Who needs insurance!

3 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Hall missed 10 games as a rookie. He with the small sample size. Is a HUGE injury risk. He also is likely not 100% come Week 1.

Hall is an RB and much more fungible.

[jgb]

3 hours ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

What are you trying to imply?

I imply nothing. I’m stating it overtly. 

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

5 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Why? Because I saw what our depth RBs can do last year. And I think the OL gets the blame for that. But the RBs were a ton to blame as well. Hall had no problem not only looking good behind our OL but elite. Losing AVT doesn't make a whole running game go from elite to bad. It's also because or RBs went from elite to bad.

 

As I said... if we weren't a win now team... I'd be more pro just letting the young guys roll. But we are a win now team. And I saw what Carter and Knight can do last year. And for me, that's not even close to enough for a SB contender with the question mark of Hall's health. And even if "healthy" he'd have to be eased in with a others getting 10-20 touches a game.

 

To also address what you said... since when is 5mill expensive for a player that will touch the ball 10-20 times a game? Especially with all the scrub guys we "can" cut.

 I think your number of touches is way off.  10-20 touches a game is 170-340 a season.  The midpoint is 15 touches a game or 250 for the season. Do you know how many RBs had 250 touches last season? 18.  These were all RB 1 -  bell cow types.  The Jets do not need an RB 1.  Jets RBs will se about 475-500 touches total.  You have to figure Hall gets 250.  That leaves 225 or so across three other running backs, or about 80 each.  Why do the Jets need to pay starter RB money to Cook so he can get back up RB touches?  If Hall is healthy and gets 200 carries (12 a game) and 40-45 catches, you don't another RB to touch the ball 10-20 times a game.  

[batman10023]

3 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

 I think your number of touches is way off.  10-20 touches a game is 170-340 a season.  The midpoint is 15 touches a game or 250 for the season. Do you know how many RBs had 250 touches last season? 18.  These were all RB 1 -  bell cow types.  The Jets do not need an RB 1.  Jets RBs will se about 475-500 touches total.  You have to figure Hall gets 250.  That leaves 225 or so across three other running backs, or about 80 each.  Why do the Jets need to pay starter RB money to Cook so he can get back up RB touches?  If Hall is healthy and gets 200 carries (12 a game) and 40-45 catches, you don't another RB to touch the ball 10-20 times a game.  

bingo.  just wish he would sign somewhere so we can end this thread

[Stark]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

I imply nothing. I’m stating it overtly. 

[Bobby816]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Plenty of reliable vets who are likely not much worse than Zeke will be readily available for cheap in 2 months, so again, why the rush?

Clyde Edwards-Helaire, Caleb Huntley, Eno Benjamin, Ronald Jones, Craig Reynolds.....none of these are "sexy" names but these are the types of veteran backs who will be available dirt cheap.  And given how "plug n play" the RB position is there's no reason a vet back can't contribute right away.

OR, continue to wait for guys like Cook, Zeke, Hunt, etc to lower their price once they realize how oversaturated and depressed the RB financial landscape is.

I said why already... so he's here in TC getting familiar with Rodgers, the OL, the system and learning the playbook and such. We need whoever we bring in early in the season to ease Hall in.

[JohnnyLV]

7 hours ago, jgb said:

I don't understand at all why anyone would see a safety net at RB as important in a title run but not at QB.

QB2 is today the Jets biggest remaining need.

Lol you won't let a thread go.

[JohnnyLV]

11 hours ago, JETS SB said:

So everyone saying the Jets don’t need another running back. But do the Jets feel that way? They admitted they nearly drafted Jahmyr Gibbs in the FIRST ROUND. Sounds like the Jets aren’t comfortable with their RB room. If it isn’t Dalvin Cook, I wouldn’t be shocked if a guy like Kareem Hunt or Leonard Fournette ends up on the team. A veteran RB is something Rodgers has always had and utilizes often. 

My guess is it will be Cook. But we will see. 

Wanting a RB in the first round and wanting a RB in general are not equivalent.

If Gibns was their BPA it does not mean they hate the RB room

 

[JohnnyLV]

6 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

That's what I don't get. So let's say he costs 5mil. You trade Carter or Knight for next to nothing but free up that money and then cut Ashytn Davis. There's your 5mill.

So sign a declining veteran and trade a promising one? Sorry but that's terrible roster management. Now next year our RB room is down 2 players

 Brilliant 

 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

For the zillionth time, there aren’t two binary outcomes: Rodgers plays all year or goes on season-ending IR. He could miss a couple quarters or games — concussion protocol, broken finger, etc etc.

It would be so ******* Jetsy to miss the playoffs by a game after committing $100 million to Rodgers because he misses a key game and we didn’t want to pay a measly few mill for someone better than Zach as a backup.

My house has never burned down. Who needs insurance!

Hall is an RB and much more fungible.

All the available #2/3/4 QBs out there right now provide an equal chance of winning a game as ZW does. 

[JETS SB]

Can’t believe we are hoping to make a Super Bowl run with Aaron Rodgers and we could be relying on crap RBs to carry the load as Hall gets healthy. While there is a 4 time pro bowl RB available who wants to play here and we have the money to pay him. And we are holding out for Eno Benjamin. Makes no sense. 

[JETS SB]

8 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Wanting a RB in the first round and wanting a RB in general are not equivalent.

If Gibns was their BPA it does not mean they hate the RB room

 

You don’t draft a running back in the first round unless you need one and feel he will help your team win. Crazy that I have to actually explain that to anyone. 

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Zachtomims47 said:

All the available #2/3/4 QBs out there right now provide an equal chance of winning a game as ZW does. 

[jgb]

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

Lol you won't let a thread go.

I’ve always stuck to my guns and the stronger the resistance on here, the more chance of being proven correct. Jets fans in the aggregate are the best contrary indicators in sport.

[JustInFudge]

9 hours ago, jgb said:

I don't understand at all why anyone would see a safety net at RB as important in a title run but not at QB.

QB2 is today the Jets biggest remaining need.

 

9 minutes ago, jgb said:

I’ve always stuck to my guns and the stronger the resistance on here, the more chance of being proven correct. Jets fans in the aggregate are the best contrary indicators in sport.

fwiw, I think the reason why the RB position is being discussed so often/or seemingly more important than QB2 is because of the "names" available.  They're sexy unlike the available QB's.  And also the uncertainty of Hall's health probably plays a factor as well. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

I said why already... so he's here in TC getting familiar with Rodgers, the OL, the system and learning the playbook and such. We need whoever we bring in early in the season to ease Hall in.

Again, RB is a plug n play position.  You don't need familiarity with a system to be the early down, early season guy.  Especially if you're a veteran RB who already knows the deal with keeping yourself in shape and getting to know a playbook quickly.  

We could sign a RB on Aug 30 and have him ready to go as the de facto RB1 by Week 2.