Josh Jacobs Has Left The Building (update: he's back)

[MichaelScott]

16 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

How often do big money contracts for RBs work out?

Not paying them was the smart move.

Henry is the last one I can think of, and he's more the exception than the rule. Those 2nd contracts end up biting the teams over and over again. 4 year rookie contract + franchise tag and you've pretty much exhausted the best years for a RB. If you draft him at the end of the 1st and have a 5th year option, even better. 

I totally get RBs being pissed. It seems to be the only position who's salary is trending downward. But, that's the game. They should probably include Zeke and Todd Gurley in these RB zoom calls. 

[32EBoozer]

34 minutes ago, MichaelScott said:

Henry is the last one I can think of, and he's more the exception than the rule. Those 2nd contracts end up biting the teams over and over again. 4 year rookie contract + franchise tag and you've pretty much exhausted the best years for a RB. If you draft him at the end of the 1st and have a 5th year option, even better. 

I totally get RBs being pissed. It seems to be the only position who's salary is trending downward. But, that's the game. They should probably include Zeke and Todd Gurley in these RB zoom calls. 

I wonder what Breece is thinking? Anyone think he was a part of the conference call?

[jgb]

17 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

@Raideraholic entering to explain how this is actually good in 3...2...1...

 

This was agreed to in advance with the Raiders! They want to keep him healthy for the championship run. They are just pretending it’s a squabble in the press because Bowl Cut Davis doesn’t want to set a precedent for RBs around the league.

[jgb]

10 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Of course. That why he and Barkley should have taken their deals and avoided all this stupid sh*t. Then next year the next stuf getting a contract would be offered more or similar if they are not quite as good. Raising the bar. Them instead of 13 mill a year offer not a a team might give a bigger guaranteed, or more per year ... Say 14. Then rinse and repeat. Until they stop being stupid and greedy they just hurt themselves. These two guy this year are going to play for 10 a year on a 1 year. Next guy who gets a offer will not be bigger it might even be lower.

They will ever be making low ball money unless they collectively start being smart and upping the price . No one going to pay a back more than what the market dictates, and because they are stupid they limit that money. The whole reason back up wrs make so much more is because of all the wrs before them that took those deals.

The lack of basic understanding on this board is crazy. It is so easy to grasp yet ...well, most don't.

Absolutely trash that these players who mean so much make peanut relative to other positions.

I see you’re still on this weird crusade. 

[jgb]

10 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Bro you can use Google.$$$  was repot multiple places. 

See my post above again explaining it 

Bottom line is they deserve more but need to build the contracts up over time to get what they are worth. They keep getting tagged and low balled money. It's sad. 

I think we both agree they deserve more. You just don't have a plan other than they should just ask for more. Life don't work that way. You are worth what someone is willing to pay, and right now if your a high performance back even the best (Jacobs/Barkley arguably) your not getting millions over the top of everyone else let alone 4 or 8 mil on top. You have to set the market as the best player to raise the pay ceiling, so the best top guy can get offered even more...raise up the market.

Again very simple and easy to understand yet you for whatever reason don't get it. 

Don't feel bad slot of RB's don't get it either

 

 

[rangerous]

9 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

It wasn’t the year off it was that useless piece of sh*t Gase.

Leveon didn’t exactly burn things up when he went to the chiefs. He was clearly in decline when he was on the jets.

[#27TheDominator]

11 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

McDaniel system not depended on one Rb as you know what the Patriots have been doing for years with their running game.( use a bevy of running backs)  D Carr didn’t play well last year in this new system ( he knows it and even stated it)   Carr can throw to parts of the field Jimmy G can’t but in this offense he can’t make the passes that tge Qb needs to make.  ( Carr always been terrible screen passer, and doesn’t throw well to middle of the field.   Jimmy G played very well in this system . ( knows it)

It's not?  Then why did Josj Jacobs have 340 of their 428 carries last year?  I mean that is giving credit for the 24 that were Derek Carr.  I am sure those were designed runs.  I mean the pass distribution was only 64 targets to Jacobs with 32 to Abdullah and 9 to Bolden.  That is pretty equal!

11 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

 Raiders have top five Rb and passing game and their offense line is top ten.      Last year Mack Hollins ( a journeyman ) had big season as he was familiar with this system .    Every other player this was their first year in the system,    d Adams says one of the hardest system he ever played in . 
Jacobs not walking away from 10 million dollars .     He won’t be the bell cow he was last year as they have a lot running backs that will get their touches. 

Without Jacobs?  Are you mental? 

Jacobs won't be the bell cow?  They added, quite literally, nothing since last year.  White, McCormick and Brown may rate a few more carries, but Boldin and Abdullah are further past their primes.  Why would they go to a committee?  To keep Jacobs fresh?  They aren't trying to do that.  That is why they are offering him short-term deals he won't take and making him play on the tender.  You are in the uncomfortable position of having 1/3 of your offense miss a bunch of camp and looking to be elsewhere.  It's far from optimal.  Unless you are trying to tank. 

[Jetsfan80]

16 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Are you mental? 

Is this rhetorical?

[Raideraholic]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

It's not?  Then why did Josj Jacobs have 340 of their 428 carries last year?  I mean that is giving credit for the 24 that were Derek Carr.  I am sure those were designed runs.  I mean the pass distribution was only 64 targets to Jacobs with 32 to Abdullah and 9 to Bolden.  That is pretty equal!

Without Jacobs?  Are you mental? 

Jacobs won't be the bell cow?  They added, quite literally, nothing since last year.  White, McCormick and Brown may rate a few more carries, but Boldin and Abdullah are further past their primes.  Why would they go to a committee?  To keep Jacobs fresh?  They aren't trying to do that.  That is why they are offering him short-term deals he won't take and making him play on the tender.  You are in the uncomfortable position of having 1/3 of your offense miss a bunch of camp and looking to be elsewhere.  It's far from optimal.  Unless you are trying to tank. 

Listen due to injury at Wr ( Hunter Renfrow) and the Te ( d Waller) position they had to do what they had to do on offense.   The plan was always last year go with Rb by committee. . Josh Jacobs was running so well that they made him team captain.    Like if G Wilson gets hurt early you don’t think Jets offense going to change.   ( than what they anticipate doing entering the season)   

Raiders pretty much put Sincere McCormick and B Brown on ice last year .   Both they have big plans with Zamir White to be their running back by committee.  B Bolden should have been cut by now , and Abdullah is just third down back and special team guy.   
 

It doesn’t matter who you have at Rb if you have the offense line in front of them.   Carmen Bruscillo did excellent job developing that offense line who everyone was down by start last year.     The Raiders don’t have a proven Rb but anyone they put out there going to be successful it’s all what happens up front.    There are no more Barry Sanders type as they are all rbs are depended on their offense line .

[Raideraholic]

4 hours ago, jgb said:

This was agreed to in advance with the Raiders! They want to keep him healthy for the championship run. They are just pretending it’s a squabble in the press because Bowl Cut Davis doesn’t want to set a precedent for RBs around the league.

Let’s see if Jacobs walks away from 10 Million.   He signs his tender he will be ready for week one to abuse the Broncos again.   He’s not going through be the bell cow regardless as the Raiders will use a lot of their rbs this year.   He sits out the Raiders will just go what they have.    The numbers won’t be any different just one guy not going to get it all, as they will get the same production just with a lot more running backs toting the rock. 
Wr Tre Tucker third round draft choice going to get his carriers ( going get jet sweeps ) also stretch the field .   Brings much needed speed to Wr Corp. 

you have the offense line up front and it really doesn’t matter who you gave running the football. When Raiders running backs show themselves in the preseason that’s going to wake j Jacobs up to sign his tender.  

[BornJetsFan1983]

4 hours ago, jgb said:

I see you’re still on this weird crusade. 

Lol. Just because you don't understand how contracts work doesn't make me weird bud.

Look at Barley today ,took less money today for a one year. Continuing you the cycle. 

Much smarter to take the 13 mil a year for two. Instead he gets shafted and doesn't move the needle. Moves it down relatively.

What part do you not understand? The more money raising the average or that long term mean that when the next guy needs to get paid there are offer to up from?

Lol much love jgb, your a jets fan no doubt just not big on the whole numbers or business side of things.

 

[jgb]

10 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Lol. Just because you don't understand how contracts work doesn't make me weird bud.

The most unintentionally ironic post in JN history.

[jgb]

23 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

Let’s see if Jacobs walks away from 10 Million.   He signs his tender he will be ready for week one to abuse the Broncos again.   He’s not going through be the bell cow regardless as the Raiders will use a lot of their rbs this year.   He sits out the Raiders will just go what they have.    The numbers won’t be any different just one guy not going to get it all, as they will get the same production just with a lot more running backs toting the rock. 
Wr Tre Tucker third round draft choice going to get his carriers ( going get jet sweeps ) also stretch the field .   Brings much needed speed to Wr Corp. 

you have the offense line up front and it really doesn’t matter who you gave running the football. When Raiders running backs show themselves in the preseason that’s going to wake j Jacobs up to sign his tender.  

Well hardball got Barkley another mill so now the precedent has been set. Holding out/threatening to still works when a team needs you even if you play the devalued RB position.

[#27TheDominator]

18 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

Listen due to injury at Wr ( Hunter Renfrow) and the Te ( d Waller) position they had to do what they had to do on offense.   The plan was always last year go with Rb by committee. . Josh Jacobs was running so well that they made him team captain.    Like if G Wilson gets hurt early you don’t think Jets offense going to change.   ( than what they anticipate doing entering the season)   

Raiders pretty much put Sincere McCormick and B Brown on ice last year .   Both they have big plans with Zamir White to be their running back by committee.  B Bolden should have been cut by now , and Abdullah is just third down back and special team guy.   
 

It doesn’t matter who you have at Rb if you have the offense line in front of them.   Carmen Bruscillo did excellent job developing that offense line who everyone was down by start last year.     The Raiders don’t have a proven Rb but anyone they put out there going to be successful it’s all what happens up front.    There are no more Barry Sanders type as they are all rbs are depended on their offense line .

What a strange and senseless response.  They planned to go with RBBC, but didn't because they had Josh Jacobs?  This year they added. . . exactly nothing, but they are going to go with a RBBC?  They didn't change because of injury.  Brown played in 6 games and had zero offensive snaps.  White played in 14 games and had 40.  His carries didn't ramp up as the season went on.  His highest snap count of 6 was week 2. He had 5 weeks 6 and 7.  Bolden who you say should be cut had double that total over 16 games and Abdullah who is "just a 3rd down/ST back" had 175 over all 17.  They weren't riding Jacobs because of injury.  They were riding him because he was their offense.  Your explanation is that they gave him so many carries because Waller and Renfro were hurt?  They had to?  Yes.  Because he was their entire offense.  

If anybody would be successful, why give nearly literally ALL the carries to Jacobs?  To raise his value so that you can't afford him?  To beat him down with overwork because you are a scumbag?  It's Josh McDaniels so this is certainly possible.  Why didn't they spread it around if anybody could be successful and you know Jacobs is set to walk?  Wouldn't Jacobs have a worse case if he'd only gotten 1,100 yards and White or Boldin had at least 400 yards?  Don't they lose bargaining power having their leading returning rusher last year at 70 yards?   At having only one guy on the roster ever topping 300 yards and that being Abdullah five years and three teams ago?

[hawk]

13 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Not saying he is but we all know the highest-paid at a position tends to be the one that gets paid the most recently.  Meaning $16M isn't that outlandish of a request considering that would still likely have put him at # 2 on the RB list three years AFTER CMC got his deal. 

Despite the market depression CMC could probably command more like $17-18M per on the open market right now if he was the same age as he was in 2020.

Then why is the Market not Aaron Donald type money for DT, let alone surpassing it?

The RB market is declining.  Could CMC still command that, sure, but Barkley is not CMC, similar to Williams is not Donald.

Despite that, cap manipulation, that was omitted from your response is still viable.

The Giants offered Barkley, with only 1 full season in 5, $13 Mill a year is a strong offer.  What were the terms?  Idk, but he is only hurting himself by not accepting it.  That's on Barkley.

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, hawk said:

Then why is the Market not Aaron Donald type money for DT, let alone surpassing it?

The RB market is declining.  Could CMC still command that, sure, but Barkley is not CMC, similar to Williams is not Donald.

Despite that, cap manipulation, that was omitted from your response is still viable.

The Giants offered Barkley, with only 1 full season in 5, $13 Mill a year is a strong offer.  What were the terms?  Idk, but he is only hurting himself by not accepting it.  That's on Barkley.

That’s the tricky thing with freedom, it also means people are free to make decisions that end up working against their self-interest. This is why I always support a player’s right to hold out, even if it blows up in their faces.

[hawk]

43 minutes ago, jgb said:

That’s the tricky thing with freedom, it also means people are free to make decisions that end up working against their self-interest. This is why I always support a player’s right to hold out, even if it blows up in their faces.

Certainly.  

They are not hostage, but they do hire professionals to guide them.  Where is the professional?

If we as arm chair know it alls can see it, how do people make millions doing the opposite.  

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, hawk said:

Certainly.  

They are not hostage, but they do hire professionals to guide them.  Where is the professional?

If we as arm chair know it alls can see it, how do people make millions doing the opposite.  

Fair but it’s also not a game of absolutes. It could just be a case that they miscalculated how the team would respond.

[UntouchableCrew]

6 hours ago, MichaelScott said:

Henry is the last one I can think of, and he's more the exception than the rule. Those 2nd contracts end up biting the teams over and over again. 4 year rookie contract + franchise tag and you've pretty much exhausted the best years for a RB. If you draft him at the end of the 1st and have a 5th year option, even better. 

I totally get RBs being pissed. It seems to be the only position who's salary is trending downward. But, that's the game. They should probably include Zeke and Todd Gurley in these RB zoom calls. 

Yep, when I was discussing this with friends recently Henry came up as the "good" contract that actually worked out.

I guess it remains a little to be seen with McCaffery, but he's one of those guys who can market himself as "more than just a RB" which seems essential if you want big money.

[#27TheDominator]

I don't think the RB market is declining.  Wasn't there a chart last week?  I think it is just going up slower than all the other positions, except punter IIRC.

[BornJetsFan1983]

3 hours ago, jgb said:

Well hardball got Barkley another mill so now the precedent has been set. Holding out/threatening to still works when a team needs you even if you play the devalued RB position.

worked? he got two mill less and only 1 year. you smart

[jgb]

42 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

worked? he got two mill less and only 1 year. you smart

If they tag him next year he will make more than the 2 year offer from the Jints that you are apoplectic that he rejected. It’s why they chose this number I’d imagine. He rejected the $22M because consecutive franchise tags would net him exactly that. Now he has some upside. Or he will get his freedom. He won.

[BornJetsFan1983]

9 hours ago, MichaelScott said:

Henry is the last one I can think of, and he's more the exception than the rule. Those 2nd contracts end up biting the teams over and over again. 4 year rookie contract + franchise tag and you've pretty much exhausted the best years for a RB. If you draft him at the end of the 1st and have a 5th year option, even better. 

I totally get RBs being pissed. It seems to be the only position who's salary is trending downward. But, that's the game. They should probably include Zeke and Todd Gurley in these RB zoom calls. 

the second year franchize is terrible, for them. I contest that they still even with all the bad stuff in the CBA could improve there lot incrementally, but that sh*t sure as hell dont help. The short sighted CBA really screwed them over. But thats what unons are good for these days screwing over thier membership so a few guys can go to fancy dinners and go to all the right parties. Hey @jgb your type of hang right?

[jgb]

1 minute ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

the second year franchize is terrible, for them. I contest that they still even with all the bad stuff in the CBA could improve their lot incrementally, but that sh*t sure as hell dont help. The short sighted CBA really screwed them over. But thats what unons are good for these days screwing over thier membership so a few guys can go to fancy dinners and go to all the right parties. Hey @jgb your type of hang right?

Do I have to pay rent or is there a promotion to live in that noggin rent free?

[BornJetsFan1983]

8 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

I wonder what Breece is thinking? Anyone think he was a part of the conference call?

I bet he is thinking damn, if I come back from this injury my agent better take that money and make it work. I bet he thinks he will be different because the team likes him alot and he is part of the "new" jets. But he def knows his contract extension will not be WR money. 

I think joe will do right by him if he plays as a top back, I just think he will not get the money he deserves...no RB does. He hopefully will take the multiyear extension for the upper tier RB money. Maybe get some extra guaranteed in there. That would be nice.  

REally hope he is back and gets to be a JET for a long time

[BornJetsFan1983]

8 hours ago, jgb said:

This was agreed to in advance with the Raiders! They want to keep him healthy for the championship run. They are just pretending it’s a squabble in the press because Bowl Cut Davis doesn’t want to set a precedent for RBs around the league.

haha i hope you are right!!

[jgb]

Just now, BornJetsFan1983 said:

haha i hope you are right!!

With all sincerity, you’ve gotten to the point that I truly cannot tell if you are engaging in parody.

[BornJetsFan1983]

3 hours ago, hawk said:

Then why is the Market not Aaron Donald type money for DT, let alone surpassing it?

The RB market is declining.  Could CMC still command that, sure, but Barkley is not CMC, similar to Williams is not Donald.

Despite that, cap manipulation, that was omitted from your response is still viable.

The Giants offered Barkley, with only 1 full season in 5, $13 Mill a year is a strong offer.  What were the terms?  Idk, but he is only hurting himself by not accepting it.  That's on Barkley.

AD is seen as the best, and by far for some. Deserved or not. that is perception. Perception is power.

YOu are right barkley is not CC but the Giants are not the 49ers either. I think the argument could be made that Barkely was worth more to the giants than CC is to the 49ers. In that same thought Jacobs could be worth more than either of those guys to the raiders. 

 

[BornJetsFan1983]

5 minutes ago, jgb said:

Do I have to pay rent or is there a promotion to live in that noggin rent free?

nah nah nah all free baby, plenty of room!!! its fascinating to me your position and thought process on RB pay. But hey what to do I know. maybe these RB will get unicorn money for no reason! It just takes on GM!!

 

[BornJetsFan1983]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

With all sincerity, you’ve gotten to the point that I truly cannot tell if you are engaging in parody.

lol. what just cause you are wrong and I disagree on one thing doesn't mean you can make good points on others, or be right. No parody! We both agree at least that RB's are gettign shafted.

[jgb]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

If they tag him next year he will make more than the 2 year offer from the Jints that you are apoplectic that he rejected. It’s why they chose this number I’d imagine. He rejected the $22M because consecutive franchise tags would net him exactly that. Now he has some upside. Or he will get his freedom. He won.

 

38 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

nah nah nah all free baby, plenty of room!!! its fascinating to me your position and thought process on RB pay. But hey what to do I know. maybe these RB will get unicorn money for no reason! It just takes on GM!!

 

Interesting my post above is the only one you didn’t spazz respond to. Good luck figuring out how to save face for forgetting that consecutive tag nets a 20% salary increase and that $10M + $12M = $22M, the offer Saquon rejected…. While telling a lawyer than he doesn’t understand contracts.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

31 minutes ago, jgb said:

If they tag him next year he will make more than the 2 year offer from the Jints that you are apoplectic that he rejected. It’s why they chose this number I’d imagine. He rejected the $22M because consecutive franchise tags would net him exactly that. Now he has some upside. Or he will get his freedom. He won.

OK Cesar Chavez.  I disagree.  Barkley caved.  He got a one year deal for $11 million instead of a two year deal with $22+ million guaranteed and $14-15 per.  So if he stays healthy and performs at peak level, which is a big if, he can get $12 million next year if he is franchised.  If he is a free agent, he won't get near that.   His value isn't going up with another year under his belt. That is the reality of a RB.  If he gets hurt or shows signs of decline, he will be a free agent looking for a one year deal that pays half that.   But spin it however you want.  The reality is that running backs seeking a second contract have no leverage based on the market and the realities of the position and the modern NFL.

[BornJetsFan1983]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

 

Interesting my post above is the only one you didn’t spazz respond to. Good figuring out how to save face for forgetting that consecutive tag nets a 20% salary increase and that $10M + $12M = $22M, the offer Saquon rejected…. While telling a lawyer than he doesn’t understand contracts.

you def don't understand contracts as well as you think you do. you still have not been able to even address the very obvious points or presented an argument. Meanwhile the entire league has done what I have suggested to quickly build contract values at all other positions. 

I think this is a case of you being book smart but having no common sense. Not a terrible thing or unique, that effects most of your profession, lack of real life experiences mostly. Thinking case law is more important the the law or constitution etc.

Saquon is making less that he would have if he taken the 13 mill reportedly offered. At no fault of his own, but bad agent apparently. But he got lucky with this often not used clause where he could negotiate a 1 year. No one has done this for like a decade. And so yes he may have beat the tag money, but it is sadly just one year and is less money this year with even less value to help any one next year raise the pay gap. 

Again you are welcome to argue against anything I have said, or simple continue to disagree. But as Im sure as you have heard in court many times, you will have to present a case or have some sort of reasoning to prove your point unicorn.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

13 minutes ago, jgb said:

 

Interesting my post above is the only one you didn’t spazz respond to. Good figuring out how to save face for forgetting that consecutive tag nets a 20% salary increase and that $10M + $12M = $22M, the offer Saquon rejected…. While telling a lawyer than he doesn’t understand contracts.

The NFL teams are offering these running backs short term contracts with guaranteed money that is equivalent to the combined two year franchise tag money. The RBs want more.  

[jgb]

19 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

The NFL teams are offering these running backs short term contracts with guaranteed money that is equivalent to the combined two year franchise tag money. The RBs want more.  

Please don’t interrupt me when I am throwing balls at the clown in the dunk tank