offensive line

[rangerous]

1 hour ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Draft LT in first Round, Sign John Runyon to play G and that gives you 4/5th of the line with Tippman and AVT. Frankly, I do not think anyone is going to pay Becton for the season he had and with his injury history. I could see the Jets re-signing Becton to play RT. After all he is good friends with AR8, and I think that if Becton is lined up next to a good G and at RT his play may very well not be nearly as suspect.

Maybe but becton better come cheap.  I think Warren can play rt or even Mitchell.  I’m not so sure they want to go into next season with a rookie lt.  Maybe if they get one of the top prospects without trading up.  They’ll have to fill out the oline in free agency.

[DonCorleone]

On 12/24/2023 at 6:47 PM, Matt39 said:

Mekhi Becton is a complete clown and will be parking cars next year. Merry Merry.

To be able to park cars, you have to be able to fit in them. One year removed from football, he will be 400 lbs or more.

[C Mart]

58 minutes ago, BCJet said:

The only FA OT who would be considered a decent starter is Jonah Williams.   After Jonah.....

George Fant is a free agent but the Texans have a lot of cap space and I cant imagine he would ever come back here. 

Jack Driscoll from Phila has been a swing tackel but maybe has upside or could be a swing tackle for us.

I didnt get to see much of the game sunday but the more work we can get for Carter Warren over the next 2 weeks, the better as it would be a huge help if he could be the 2024 RT.  I dont think Becton is someone I trust - he seems like he has a terrible attitude to go along with medicore play and an injury history but at the same time, this team needs to draft a QB to sit behind rogers so im torn about what to do with our first round pick.

It does seem like the group of second tier OTs in the draft is pretty big so is it a good time to trade back to get a 2nd to use on an OT?

Of course

Still nothing wrong w/signing Becton, if the contract is reasonable, easy out.

[C Mart]

29 minutes ago, rangerous said:

Maybe but becton better come cheap.  I think Warren can play rt or even Mitchell.  I’m not so sure they want to go into next season with a rookie lt.  Maybe if they get one of the top prospects without trading up.  They’ll have to fill out the oline in free agency.

Mitchell might be better suited as an OG...He's been a disappointment this season..Then again it could be OL Coach Carter.....

[hawk]

On 12/24/2023 at 7:41 PM, HawkeyeJet said:

Yes, the OL is terrible.  They also have approximately Depth chart #s 9-11 in the lineup every week. Several occasions of past #11.

I legit get the feeling some of you think that this type of OL performance is unexpected week in and week out under these circumstances.

 

I am going to need some clarification on this one.  Are you saying we are playing our 9th through 11th Lineman of the year?

If so, the assumption they will be a great wall is unexpected?  Say it isn't so.

[football guy]

2 hours ago, C Mart said:

What UFA LT will be available? You can't count on Bakhtiari

Definitely a new OL coach.

Becton hasn't looked good since his sprained ankle, now knee.

If possible and reasonable, I would try and resign Becton. This season was really just his 2nd season of experience.

Mekhi Becton, Tyron Smith, David Bakhtiari are the 1-year/year-to-year types. Similar situation as KC when they signed Donovan Smith.

Jonah Williams is the only UFA option who likely gets paid big money. 

Cam Robinson and DJ Humphries could be available via trade 

[HawkeyeJet]

1 hour ago, hawk said:

I am going to need some clarification on this one.  Are you saying we are playing our 9th through 11th Lineman of the year?

If so, the assumption they will be a great wall is unexpected?  Say it isn't so.

 The average 53 man NFL roster has 8-9 OL usually.  Maybe 10 in rare instances.  Throw in 2 practice Squad players and the average organizational OL depth chart has around 11-12 players at a given time.   

Pretend those 12-ish are stacked ranked at the beginning of the year from 1(best) to 12(worst) as individual players.  However you personally think those numbers shake out could change, but i’d assume most would have said 1. AVT and maybe Warren or someone similar as #11/12.  Insert everyone else, Brown, Becton, Tomlinson, McGovern, Schweitzer, Tippmann, Mitchell, Turner etc in the spots 2-11/12.

What I’m saying, is over the past six weeks or so, the Jets have usually been fielding an OL with 2-3 starters from spots 9-11(the absolute bottom tier of the organizational depth chart) or worse.  They’ve had several right guards who would be more like 14/15.

And then I read threads like people can’t figure out how the OL is so bad or asserting that they should be better than they have been playing.

The reality is the OL is playing exactly how an OL that decimated should be expected to play, and that is terribly.
 

 

[football guy]

1 hour ago, HawkeyeJet said:

 The average 53 man NFL roster has 8-9 OL usually.  Maybe 10 in rare instances.  Throw in 2 practice Squad players and the average organizational OL depth chart has around 11-12 players at a given time.   

Pretend those 12-ish are stacked ranked at the beginning of the year from 1(best) to 12(worst) as individual players.  However you personally think those numbers shake out could change, but i’d assume most would have said 1. AVT and maybe Warren or someone similar as #11/12.  Insert everyone else, Brown, Becton, Tomlinson, McGovern, Schweitzer, Tippmann, Mitchell, Turner etc in the spots 2-11/12.

What I’m saying, is over the past six weeks or so, the Jets have usually been fielding an OL with 2-3 starters from spots 9-11(the absolute bottom tier of the organizational depth chart) or worse.  They’ve had several right guards who would be more like 14/15.

And then I read threads like people can’t figure out how the OL is so bad or asserting that they should be better than they have been playing.

The reality is the OL is playing exactly how an OL that decimated should be expected to play, and that is terribly.
 

 

This is true. My issue with the offensive line is that the injuries to this unit have become yearly occurrence under Saleh. It's become a league wide issue (many of which could plausibly be attributed to the lack of hard practice reps and hitting in training camp because it removes the ability to ramp these guys up and help them build calluses for the long season), but Saleh's philosophy of consistently resting and rotating lineman feels like it just compounds the issue even more. Couple that with chemistry issues and you have a totally inept unit year after year. 

For me, the first step is uncovering why the injuries have been so persistent and applying changes to the regiment and training to keep these guys on the field. Second most important is acquiring the right players. Third is the coaching and development. A great coach can make up for talent deficiencies, shuffling lineups, and injuries, but they're not readily available nor do I believe someone would come in here as a lame duck and try to rebuild the OL in one offseason. They're going to have to lean on improving their practices on a fundamental level to keep guys healthy and to improve the talent if they're going to make strides next season. 

[JetPotato]

31 minutes ago, football guy said:

This is true. My issue with the offensive line is that the injuries to this unit have become yearly occurrence under Saleh. It's become a league wide issue (many of which could plausibly be attributed to the lack of hard practice reps and hitting in training camp because it removes the ability to ramp these guys up and help them build calluses for the long season), but Saleh's philosophy of consistently resting and rotating lineman feels like it just compounds the issue even more. Couple that with chemistry issues and you have a totally inept unit year after year. 

For me, the first step is uncovering why the injuries have been so persistent and applying changes to the regiment and training to keep these guys on the field. Second most important is acquiring the right players. Third is the coaching and development. A great coach can make up for talent deficiencies, shuffling lineups, and injuries, but they're not readily available nor do I believe someone would come in here as a lame duck and try to rebuild the OL in one offseason. They're going to have to lean on improving their practices on a fundamental level to keep guys healthy and to improve the talent if they're going to make strides next season. 

Carter is going to be out though... right? 

[hawk]

1 hour ago, HawkeyeJet said:

 The average 53 man NFL roster has 8-9 OL usually.  Maybe 10 in rare instances.  Throw in 2 practice Squad players and the average organizational OL depth chart has around 11-12 players at a given time.   

Pretend those 12-ish are stacked ranked at the beginning of the year from 1(best) to 12(worst) as individual players.  However you personally think those numbers shake out could change, but i’d assume most would have said 1. AVT and maybe Warren or someone similar as #11/12.  Insert everyone else, Brown, Becton, Tomlinson, McGovern, Schweitzer, Tippmann, Mitchell, Turner etc in the spots 2-11/12.

What I’m saying, is over the past six weeks or so, the Jets have usually been fielding an OL with 2-3 starters from spots 9-11(the absolute bottom tier of the organizational depth chart) or worse.  They’ve had several right guards who would be more like 14/15.

And then I read threads like people can’t figure out how the OL is so bad or asserting that they should be better than they have been playing.

The reality is the OL is playing exactly how an OL that decimated should be expected to play, and that is terribly.
 

 

Thank you for the clarification.  I assumed that was what you were saying.  

At no point should anyone expect your offensive line to be a complete unit through out the year.  Injuries will happen, and the depth is usually the group that gets a team into the playoffs.

Becton coming off two years of Missing the season, and now AVT a reset needs to be made.  If either are able to make it back to New York they should be assumed as back ups until they win their spots.  In my opinion go into the off season with the mind set that you need to replace both of them.  

Tippman is your only perceived starter and possibly at a different position.  

My Guess Tomlinson is gone.  That means you are looking for a LT / LG / possibly center / possibly RG / Right Tackle

Warren Carter?  Max Mitchell?  Newman?  Are these your perceived starters going into 2024.

Realistically,  Becton is not coming back.  Your hope at this point - We Draft a day one starter at Left Tackle -  AVT resumes his rightful spot at Left Guard - Draft or Sign a Center - Tippman is your right Guard / Mitchell and Carter battle it out at Right Tackle.

Sadly, the offensive line is a disaster despite all the resources put into it.

Some will say Joe Douglas sucks.  However, Becton showed great promise and no one on this board or in the NFL world would have expected nothing more than for him to be an anchor at Left Tackle.  2 years of injuries and he came back with some good games and not so good games.  However I'm certainly not backing up the truck to him.

AVT was annointed a Hall of Famer on this board after year 1.  

Everyone on this board wanted or liked the Laken Tomlinson addition.

Everyone was clamoring for Duane Brown.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, hawk said:

Your hope at this point - We Draft a day one starter at Left Tackle -  AVT resumes his rightful spot at Left Guard - Draft or Sign a Center - Tippman is your right Guard / Mitchell and Carter battle it out at Right Tackle.

So I'd sure hope they come out of free agency with more than having added nothing more than a penciled-in starter at center (i.e. McGovern) as they head into the draft. 

I've little hope for Mitchell developing into a starting RT (if it happens, great) but right now he's not earned the status of competing for a starting job. If it's Mitchell/Warren battling it out that means they're penciling in Warren as starter, and he's not earned that himself yet either. 

They have to acquire a veteran starting tackle, and they surely will pick up at least one. Whether that person pans out is a different thing perhaps, but there's no way they head into the draft with just the same backup tackles they have today, penciled in at both LT and RT, with the hopes they land a rookie center ready to start right away himself. 

It's too early to get an idea of what they'll do until the draft slots are finalized and the prospect ranks get sorted, but I'd expect:

• FA tackle starter -- they may make a play for Jonah Williams but he'll have plenty of options from better teams. Trent Brown is another starter who should be available. In the end this may look like a has-been or someone plenty talented but with a spotty injury history (Bakhtiari, assuming he's released, or Tyron Smith, if Dallas doesn't extend him). Other than that the ghost of Donovan Smith Past should be out there, seeking a big pay raise despite another meh season after Tampa cut him. 
• FA tackle borderline-starter. Wouldn't surprise me to get a Rodgers-recommendation like Yosh Nijman (and for him to suck), but they may have to go higher than this. Hurst from the Saints maybe. He's a starter but hard to see lots of teams lining up to pay him more than high backup money again. Anyway, not just to make a rookie earn it but some other T depth other than Warren. Don't freak out if/when this is Brown again. 
• FA G/C  - take your pick. I think they're still looking to have Tippmann as the starting center, and unless Conor Williams makes it to FA there will be more guard options than center in FA. 

[Ron Rico]

Some people don't realize how big a mess JD has created here, in 3 years. It's bad. It's not going to be fixed by 2024. That's the reality of the situation. Minimum, it's going to take two seasons to have a coherent, competitive O-line on the field, and that only if you have someone who isn't a meathead making the decisions. 

[hawk]

26 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

So I'd sure hope they come out of free agency with more than having added nothing more than a penciled-in starter at center (i.e. McGovern) as they head into the draft. 

I've little hope for Mitchell developing into a starting RT (if it happens, great) but right now he's not earned the status of competing for a starting job. If it's Mitchell/Warren battling it out that means they're penciling in Warren as starter, and he's not earned that himself yet either. 

They have to acquire a veteran starting tackle, and they surely will pick up at least one. Whether that person pans out is a different thing perhaps, but there's no way they head into the draft with just the same backup tackles they have today, penciled in at both LT and RT, with the hopes they land a rookie center ready to start right away himself. 

It's too early to get an idea of what they'll do until the draft slots are finalized and the prospect ranks get sorted, but I'd expect:

• FA tackle starter -- they may make a play for Jonah Williams but he'll have plenty of options from better teams. Trent Brown is another starter who should be available. In the end this may look like a has-been or someone plenty talented but with a spotty injury history (Bakhtiari, assuming he's released, or Tyron Smith, if Dallas doesn't extend him). Other than that the ghost of Donovan Smith Past should be out there, seeking a big pay raise despite another meh season after Tampa cut him. 
• FA tackle borderline-starter. Wouldn't surprise me to get a Rodgers-recommendation like Yosh Nijman (and for him to suck), but they may have to go higher than this. Hurst from the Saints maybe. He's a starter but hard to see lots of teams lining up to pay him more than high backup money again. Anyway, not just to make a rookie earn it but some other T depth other than Warren. Don't freak out if/when this is Brown again. 
• FA G/C  - take your pick. I think they're still looking to have Tippmann as the starting center, and unless Conor Williams makes it to FA there will be more guard options than center in FA. 

I'd guess since it's too early to see where the chips fall for Draft picks it would also be to soon to slot available free agents.

I'd say we agree that the line needs tremendous help.

Becton is as good as gone.  He himself will want a fresh start, and I highly doubt the administration wants him around any longer.

AVT is not a sure thing to come back as an Achilles may possibly one of the most important ligaments a lineman had.

Douglas has put a tremendous amount of resources into the line, and the point was, we may need 3 or 4 new starters.

I also don't feel Douglas is the issue, but the results are what they are.

[football guy]

3 hours ago, JetPotato said:

Carter is going to be out though... right? 

It’s easier to fire a guy than it is to hire one. If there was a clear alternative available who wanted to come here I would say probably, but it’s a lame duck situation that won’t appeal to many of the top OL coaches out there. He’s also a Saleh guy.

[football guy]

2 hours ago, Ron Rico said:

Some people don't realize how big a mess JD has created here, in 3 years. It's bad. It's not going to be fixed by 2024. That's the reality of the situation. Minimum, it's going to take two seasons to have a coherent, competitive O-line on the field, and that only if you have someone who isn't a meathead making the decisions. 

Agree. Rodgers may be able to mask some of it temporarily, but it won’t get rebuilt in one season. 

I think everyone deserves a fair share of blame as there have been some developments that are out of JD’s control, but his defining mistake was taking Becton over Wirfs. 

[BCJet]

The Carter Warren situation is concerning because this staff will have four full games of starting tape of warren plus a  year of having him in the building which should be enough for a competent staff to determine if he is capable of coming in as the starting RT.  I dont think I trust the staff and their ability to do that. There is obviously risk with that plan but they might have to have some sort of risk at one of the spots since they have so many holes to fill. 

[JetPotato]

11 hours ago, football guy said:

It’s easier to fire a guy than it is to hire one. If there was a clear alternative available who wanted to come here I would say probably, but it’s a lame duck situation that won’t appeal to many of the top OL coaches out there. He’s also a Saleh guy.

Dwayne Ledford may be available if Arthur Smith gets let get go from Atlanta. I'd be all over that. Just takes $$.

[Ecuadorian Jet]

On 12/24/2023 at 6:37 PM, bd71 said:

Bottom line- it’s bad.  Out of the bunch, they have AVT and Tippman for 2024.  I just don’t think this team can count on any one else as a starter.  Awful.

AVT has had early-on season-ending injuries two years in a row. He seems like a nice guy. At least nicer than Becton, but have we learned nothing? We truly cannot depend on AVT at all. If he turns into a nice rotational depth back up kind of player, I guess that will be ok until his rookie contract runs out. 

[Ecuadorian Jet]

11 hours ago, BCJet said:

The Carter Warren situation is concerning because this staff will have four full games of starting tape of warren plus a  year of having him in the building which should be enough for a competent staff to determine if he is capable of coming in as the starting RT.  I dont think I trust the staff and their ability to do that. There is obviously risk with that plan but they might have to have some sort of risk at one of the spots since they have so many holes to fill. 

The offensive side of the ball is extraordinarily incompetent. Unlike the defense, the coaching staff is simply inept when it comes to developing players, correcting their mistakes, and/or exploiting their natural abilities, which is pretty concerning considering this "league" is all about offense, highlights, and scoring.

[NYDreamer]

Our starting offensive line did not even play one snap together over the preseason or even have a chance to work together over the spring practices.  The shiny new car was in the driveway in Aaron Rodgers and none of us saw the storm coming and left that car out in the hail storm because the garage door was broken.

Tomlinson's contract will be hard to move off this offseason. 

Max Mitchell-When I watched the tape on him coming out for the draft I watched our first round draft pick Jermaine Johnson blowing him up.  Maybe he can add more base strength.

I like Carter Warren and his development potential.

It will be interesting to see how Douglas proceeds with this draft.  He has always been best player available but your needs now are outweighing that luxury.