I don't like Kellen Clemens

[Phinsuck]

I like the first two picks, Ferguson and Mangold, with reservations, but I don't like Kellen Clemens. Let me tell you why:

Clemens is another Chad Pennington, except maybe not as talented. He is undersized, has a mediocre arm and is injury prone. But here is the thing that scares me most about Clemens, he is an Oregon Quarterback.

Oregon Quarterbacks have a familiar pedigree. Right before the draft scouts always fall in love with them, they get drafted higher than projected, and then once they reach the NFL they flop.

Does anyone remember Akili Smith and Joey Harrington? I do. I think it was a mistake passing up on Leinart. Leinart is considered better than Carson Palmer and look at how succesful Palmer has been. We could have easily addressed the Offensive Line with the 29th and 35th picks.

[vinnys025]

His arm is much stronger than Penningtons

[Phinsuck]

His arm is much stronger than Penningtons

5 words: Akili Smith and Joey Harrington.

I need a better argument than his arm is better than Pennington's. I have a better arm than Chad Pennington.

[124]

I wanted Croyle or Whitehurst but if Mangini, Tanny and obviously Jaws (saying he could be like Brady 5, 6 years from now) I'll give him his time to show what he's made of.

[Jack Straw]

Leinart is considered better than Carson Palmer and look at how succesful Palmer has been.

Why, because Mel Kiper says so?

[124]

Why, because Mel Kiper says so?

And cause they both went to USC.

[Collegiate Jet Fan]

I can't say I've seen him play, but arm strength is his forte... they said he can make throws that Young and Leinart can't make. I have no idea how good he will end up, but arm strength is not a question.

[Boozer76]

I like the first two picks, Ferguson and Mangold, with reservations, but I don't like Kellen Clemens. Let me tell you why:

Clemens is another Chad Pennington, except maybe not as talented. He is undersized, has a mediocre arm and is injury prone. But here is the thing that scares me most about Clemens, he is an Oregon Quarterback.

Oregon Quarterbacks have a familiar pedigree. Right before the draft scouts always fall in love with them, they get drafted higher than projected, and then once they reach the NFL they flop.

Does anyone remember Akili Smith and Joey Harrington? I do. I think it was a mistake passing up on Leinart. Leinart is considered better than Carson Palmer and look at how succesful Palmer has been. We could have easily addressed the Offensive Line with the 29th and 35th picks.

OK, first of all Norm Chow came out and said that Leinert will never be as good as Palmer. Not even close so I don't know where you get your info on that. If Leinert was better than Palmer there's no way that TEN would have passed on him. Secondly, all reports from Clemens pro day states that his arm is quite strong. Much stronger than anyone previously thought.

[dbatesman]

5 words: Akili Smith and Joey Harrington.

I need a better argument than his arm is better than Pennington's. I have a better arm than Chad Pennington.

2 Words: Jeff Tedford. He mentored Smith and Harrington as their OC at Oregon. When you talk about "system" quarterbacks who can't make the jump to the NFL, Tedford's coaching style is the quintessential "system." He coaches odd mechanics (like holding the ball at ear-height or above) and works to create minutely detailed game plans that remove the element of improvisation from gameplay. So basically, his QBs never get a chance to think for themselves, meaning the jump to the NFL speed of play is nearly impossible.

Now that he's gone, the "Oregon curse" is gone too.

Oh, and no Penn State RB ever amounts to anything in the NFL, right? Boy, the Chiefs really wasted that pick on Larry Johnson. If Mangini really likes Clemens, then he must see something worthwhile there, regardless of the history of QBs from Oregon. They're obviously doing their research. Before you outright reject one of their picks, maybe you should do yours too. Only time will tell if Clemens was a good pick or not.

[PeterNorth09]

Kellen Clemens sucks. I checked out every scouting report and they all say he has an average or below average arm. I think maybe there might be something to that. He's also small and injury prone too. Mike Tanenbaum loves guys like Bollinger and Pennington, little qb's who try to run around and throw ducks all day. And yes, you should be cautious with Oregon quarterbacks. Ask any Lions or Bengals fan.

You don't think Tanenbaum had anything to do with the Jets drafting Bollinger or giving Pennington that $64 million dollar contract? He was Bradway's second in command for all that ****. The guy has something against good qb's.

[Warfish]

I like the first two picks, Ferguson and Mangold, with reservations, but I don't like Kellen Clemens. Let me tell you why:

Clemens is another Chad Pennington, except maybe not as talented. He is undersized, has a mediocre arm and is injury prone. But here is the thing that scares me most about Clemens, he is an Oregon Quarterback.

Oregon Quarterbacks have a familiar pedigree. Right before the draft scouts always fall in love with them, they get drafted higher than projected, and then once they reach the NFL they flop.

Does anyone remember Akili Smith and Joey Harrington? I do. I think it was a mistake passing up on Leinart. Leinart is considered better than Carson Palmer and look at how succesful Palmer has been. We could have easily addressed the Offensive Line with the 29th and 35th picks.

Ron Jaws says he has a Big Solid NFL arm. Jaws has watched every single play this player has played. Jaws says Clemens could be the best QB from this draft, and can definitely be a NFL Franchise QB.

So....think you know more about Clemens than Jaws?

Seems you need the old advice that comes with investment companies.....past performance is not an indicator of future earnings. Because Smith and Harrington busted is absolutely irrelevant to Clemens future. Different teams, different casts, different players, different coaches, different times. One simply does not equate to the other.

[Green Jets & Ham]

Ron Jaws says he has a Big Solid NFL arm. Jaws has watched every single play this player has played. Jaws says Clemens could be the best QB from this draft, and can definitely be a NFL Franchise QB.

So....think you know more about Clemens than Jaws?

That's the thing that caught my attention, war

Jaws said he watched "every single throw" Clemens ever made

So Jaws REALLY did his homework on Clemens, and he loves him ... also said he has plenty of arm

[PatsFanTX]

I need a better argument than his arm is better than Pennington's. I have a better arm than Chad Pennington.

So does anyone who has a right arm attached to their body.

Clemens has fundamentally sound mechanics. Nice over-the-top throwing motion and he has a very quick release. He also throws a very tight spiral.

No sure where you think he has a "weak" arm, but all the scouting reports have him making the deep out throws very consistently.

[MasonJet]

Do you actually anybody takes you seriously? Kellen Clemens has an above-average arm. What is the source of your information? Your a$$?

[PeterNorth09]

Kellen Clemens = Jay Fiedler

And that's best case scenario.

Remember a couple years ago when Ben Roethlisberger dropped to like 11? You guys were probably saying the same things about Big Ben that you're saying about Leinart now. "Oh he sucks" "Teams must have seen something about him they don't like" "College succes doesn't always translate to pro success"

In two years when Matt Leinart is starting he will go nuts in Arizona. And I hope you guys remember what you said here yesterday and today about him.

[Warfish]

Kellen Clemens = Jay Fiedler

And that's best case scenario.

Remember a couple years ago when Ben Roethlisberger dropped to like 11? You guys were probably saying the same things about Big Ben that you're saying about Leinart now. "Oh he sucks" "Teams must have seen something about him they don't like" "College succes doesn't always translate to pro success"

In two years when Matt Leinart is starting he will go nuts in Arizona.

He might indeed. But anyone who knows football knows that his success in AZ does not mean he would definitively had the same success in NY. Different teams, coaches, styles, schemes, supporting casts.

This seems to be a recurring theme today......

[YJF]

So does anyone who has a right arm attached to their body.

Clemens has fundamentally sound mechanics. Nice over-the-top throwing motion and he has a very quick release. He also throws a very tight spiral.

No sure where you think he has a "weak" arm, but all the scouting reports have him making the deep out throws very consistently.

Clemens has one of the best arms in this draft and the game films prove it. The people who actually sat down and studied Clemens saw that.

Jets passed on Leinart because of his inability to make all the throws and they targeted Clemens because of his ability to make all the throws. It's as simple as that.

People need to do better homework on players.

[PeterNorth09]

He might indeed. But anyone who knows football knows that his success in AZ does not mean he would definitively had the same success in NY. Different teams, coaches, styles, schemes, supporting casts.

This seems to be a recurring theme today......

So that's going to be the excuse? I don't buy it.

[Warfish]

So that's going to be the excuse? I don't buy it.

Then I'm sorry, but your simply being ignorant and stubborn. "Buy it" or not, it is a simple fact of life.

[joewilly]

Clemens has one of the best arms in this draft and the game films prove it. The people who actually sat down and studied Clemens saw that.

Jets passed on Leinart because of his inability to make all the throws and they targeted Clemens because of his ability to make all the throws. It's as simple as that.

People need to do better homework on players.

great post yjf...............I don't know **** from shinola about the guy. I watched croyle & didn't like what i saw. i saw two seam passes thrown perfectly, meaning on target & thrown on time as jaws ? hodges were bragging about him. strong arm and heady q'back is a good combo

[ThunderbirdJet]

GradeCategoryComments/Description

6.5TechniqueClemons has a very quick and compact delivery and can get rid of the ball in a flash.

6.5Arm StrengthHe has the arm to make all the throws with very good zip -- even the deep out is not problem at all.

Sounds like his arm is plenty strong enough.

[dbatesman]

Kellen Clemens = Jay Fiedler

And that's best case scenario.

Remember a couple years ago when Ben Roethlisberger dropped to like 11? You guys were probably saying the same things about Big Ben that you're saying about Leinart now. "Oh he sucks" "Teams must have seen something about him they don't like" "College succes doesn't always translate to pro success"

In two years when Matt Leinart is starting he will go nuts in Arizona. And I hope you guys remember what you said here yesterday and today about him.

Have you watched a single game Clemens has played in? Have you watched any film? He has a stronger arm and twice the mobility of Leinart, and he's going to cost half as much (if that). Instead of just reading scouting reports, take a look at some tape for yourself.

And as for your post about the "excuse" for not taking Leinart...well, it's pretty simple. If we take Leinart at #4, he goes from throwing to the best receivers in college football to throwing to Justin McCareins. He goes from handing off to Reggie Bush and LenDale White to handing to 33-year-old Curtis Martin. He goes from being protected by the best offensive line in the nation to being protected by Adrian Jones and Trey Teague.

Arizona has Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald and Edgerrin James. They play their home games in a stadium without the wind of the Meadowlands, where Leinart's lack of arm strength won't be a problem. If Leinart's putting up huge numbers in 5 years (a big "if," even in Arizona), it doesn't mean he would have put up big numbers here.

Merrill Hoge and Ron Jaworski are saying Clemens is the 2nd-most NFL ready QB in this draft, second to Leinart. Not that their word is gospel, but I trust them more than some guy who watched some highlights on SportsCenter one night and decided that Kellen Clemens has a subpar arm and decided to publish a scouting report about it.

[shutout]

He might indeed. But anyone who knows football knows that his success in AZ does not mean he would definitively had the same success in NY. Different teams, coaches, styles, schemes, supporting casts.

This seems to be a recurring theme today......

Don't forget climate...Much easier to make those throws in the desert than the swirling winds of the meadowlands.

[Greensince69]

Anyone who thinks lienhart is going to come into az and be a pro bowl type qb next year sim smoking crack. The man does not have dan mariono's arm or his release. I don't know how clemens is going to work out but i do know one thing, he is not going to come in here and be expected to be the savior. If Lienhart came here at 4 he would be be expected to do that and would be crushed by the pressure. The NFL os so much faster than college and the margin for error is much less. Passes completed in college will be intercepted or knocked away. Lienharts success has as much to do with the overall quality of the team and the system as with his capabilities. I think he is a heady qb but what was he going to do when he starts getting picked off. (this will happen in az too if they start him next year, a mistake IMHO) In az there may not be enough fannies in the seats to care but in the medowlands he would get torn apart. Too much money to invest in a guy that is not elway. Quite frankly I had the same concerns over cutler at 4 for much the same reasons. THese guys are not elway, not even close.

Clemens gets a 2 year learning curve now. THe dollars are hugely less at a position you have already invested way too many dollars in. I like him as much or better than croyle and whitehurst. I have np with this pick. If he turns out to be a good qb, its great, if not we still have outr franchise LT and have not wasted another 20 mill in cap space.

ps 1) Lienhart could not carry Carson Palmers Jock

2) THere is a reason that Dener Traded down to get Cutler, not Lienhart.

[PeterNorth09]

Anyone who thinks lienhart is going to come into az and be a pro bowl type qb next year sim smoking crack. The man does not have dan mariono's arm or his release. I don't know how clemens is going to work out but i do know one thing, he is not going to come in here and be expected to be the savior. If Lienhart came here at 4 he would be be expected to do that and would be crushed by the pressure. The NFL os so much faster than college and the margin for error is much less. Passes completed in college will be intercepted or knocked away. Lienharts success has as much to do with the overall quality of the team and the system as with his capabilities. I think he is a heady qb but what was he going to do when he starts getting picked off. (this will happen in az too if they start him next year, a mistake IMHO) In az there may not be enough fannies in the seats to care but in the medowlands he would get torn apart. Too much money to invest in a guy that is not elway. Quite frankly I had the same concerns over cutler at 4 for much the same reasons. THese guys are not elway, not even close.

Clemens gets a 2 year learning curve now. THe dollars are hugely less at a position you have already invested way too many dollars in. I like him as much or better than croyle and whitehurst. I have np with this pick. If he turns out to be a good qb, its great, if not we still have outr franchise LT and have not wasted another 20 mill in cap space.

ps 1) Lienhart could not carry Carson Palmers Jock

2) THere is a reason that Dener Traded down to get Cutler, not Lienhart.

I have some land in Pennsylvania I'd like to sell you.

[Greensince69]

Land is a good investment at the right price, the trick is not paying a premium for swamp land, even when it has a flashy over hyped building on it.

[Jetsfan80]

Have you watched a single game Clemens has played in? Have you watched any film? He has a stronger arm and twice the mobility of Leinart, and he's going to cost half as much (if that). Instead of just reading scouting reports, take a look at some tape for yourself.

And as for your post about the "excuse" for not taking Leinart...well, it's pretty simple. If we take Leinart at #4, he goes from throwing to the best receivers in college football to throwing to Justin McCareins. He goes from handing off to Reggie Bush and LenDale White to handing to 33-year-old Curtis Martin. He goes from being protected by the best offensive line in the nation to being protected by Adrian Jones and Trey Teague.

Arizona has Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald and Edgerrin James. They play their home games in a stadium without the wind of the Meadowlands, where Leinart's lack of arm strength won't be a problem. If Leinart's putting up huge numbers in 5 years (a big "if," even in Arizona), it doesn't mean he would have put up big numbers here.

Merrill Hoge and Ron Jaworski are saying Clemens is the 2nd-most NFL ready QB in this draft, second to Leinart. Not that their word is gospel, but I trust them more than some guy who watched some highlights on SportsCenter one night and decided that Kellen Clemens has a subpar arm and decided to publish a scouting report about it.

POTW. Good work.

[Xcel2NuFX]

Kellen Clemens sucks. I checked out every scouting report and they all say he has an average or below average arm. I think maybe there might be something to that. He's also small and injury prone too. Mike Tanenbaum loves guys like Bollinger and Pennington, little qb's who try to run around and throw ducks all day. And yes, you should be cautious with Oregon quarterbacks. Ask any Lions or Bengals fan.

You don't think Tanenbaum had anything to do with the Jets drafting Bollinger or giving Pennington that $64 million dollar contract? He was Bradway's second in command for all that ****. The guy has something against good qb's.

Something you people seem to forget is that Akili Smith and Harrington were also picked in the top 5 if my memory serves me correctly. We got Clemmens in the back end of the 2nd round. You people act like Leinart is friggin god. I think he is going to be succesful in Arizona with all that talent around him but for the Jets I didn't see a fit.

The cold weather the windy stadium.... It just wasn't a good fit in my opinion and if Leinart is better than Palmer how come he fell all the way to #10?

A quarterback as good as Palmer doesn't slip that far and he isn't passed up by his former offensive coordinator and fellow USC alumni if he's that good.

How do you rip Clemens for having a weak arm and then say we screwed up by not taking another noodle arm in Leinart?

[serphnx]

How do you rip Clemens for having a weak arm and then say we screwed up by not taking another noodle arm in Leinart?

Because he is stupid. All his posts are the same. He reads some crap on the internet, or watches something but misunderstands it completely, and decides he's an expert. The sports media does this a lot too. That's why they're sports media, and he's just a poster, and Tannenbaum is a GM, and Mangini is a HC. It's because their opinions matter more, and are held accountable. If in 5 years, the Jets aren't a good team, Tangini are fired. If in 5 years, PeterNorth and ESPN are still as wrong as usual, nothing happens. It's like how "academics" can constantly criticize everything, but are too stupid to actually create any work of their own. If you're actually good enough at something at life, you're going to make good money for it. If you aren't, you're going to make a lot less money, and you're constantly going to talk **** about everything. You never see Bill Gates publically criticizing other businesses on how they're run, but you can definitely see some low level programmers acting like they can run businesses better.