faba Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Lions' Henderson won't return BY NICHOLAS J. COTSONIKA FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER The Bucs' Joe Barry Scouting 2007 Coach Rod Marinelli will announce today that defensive coordinator Donnie Henderson will not return to the Lions next season, an NFL source said Monday. Marinelli and Henderson have agreed to a mutual parting because they have different defensive philosophies. They have a strong relationship that goes back to the late 1970s and a lot of respect for each other. But Henderson had no background in the Tampa Two system that Marinelli brought from Tampa Bay and never grew comfortable in it this season. Neither was available for comment Monday. The leading candidate to replace Henderson is believed to be Tampa Bay linebackers coach Joe Barry, Marinelli's son-in-law. His father, Mike Barry, is the Lions' assistant offensive line coach. After the Lions hired Marinelli last January, they asked the Buccaneers for permission to interview Joe Barry for the defensive coordinator job. But the Bucs denied them. Barry had a year left on his contract, and the Bucs have a policy of not allowing assistants under contract to interview for assistant coaching jobs with other teams. The Bucs already had denied the Packers permission to interview Barry for their defensive coordinator job that week, and they declined to make an exception for the Lions, despite the circumstances. "With this situation being unique in the sense that not only am I getting an opportunity be a coordinator, I'm getting an opportunity to work with family, it's a unique and special situation," Barry told the Free Press at the time. "I was potentially hoping they would look at it like that and grant me the opportunity to pursue this." Marinelli and Henderson grew close almost 30 years ago. When Henderson was a defensive back at Utah State, Marinelli wasn't just the defensive line coach. Marinelli and his wife, Barbara, were the dorm parents for the football team. Henderson took to calling Barbara Marinelli "Mom," and he still calls her that. "They baby-sat me, basically," Henderson told the Free Press earlier this season. "They were there to have a meal, if you needed to have one." Marinelli and Henderson coached together twice in college -- at California (1990-91) and Arizona State (1992-94) -- but never in the NFL before Detroit. Marinelli coached the defensive line in Tampa Bay from 1996-2005. Henderson coached the defensive backs in Baltimore from 1999-2003 and was the New York Jets' defensive coordinator from 2004-05. Henderson has an intense, direct style, but he also tries to relate to the players on their level. After all, he was a player once, too. The Lions drafted him in the 10th round in 1980, but he didn't make the team. "He'll kind of scare you a little bit," defensive tackle Shaun Cody told the Free Press in October. "But then he'll reel you back in and tell you, 'This is what you need to do.' ... "You get a lot of coaches who try to mask what they're trying to do, don't try to be who they really are, or try to show false images of themselves. But he's real. He'll talk to you like anybody would. He doesn't think he's above you. He's right in there in the trenches with you. That's what I respect about him. He's on your side." The Lions' defense suffered from serious personnel losses this season -- numerous injuries, plus a four-game suspension to Pro Bowl defensive tackle Shaun Rogers for using a banned dietary supplement -- and finished fifth-worst in the NFL (345 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Henderson had no background in the Cover 2 that was brought in from Tampa and was not comfortable with it. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Talk about a guy's stock dropping. After 2004 Donnie was a major candidate for a HC position, now he leaves 2 DC jobs in two years ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjets Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 he needs a good team to take over at D... what teams are looking for a BALT type defence??? Talk about a guy's stock dropping. After 2004 Donnie was a major candidate for a HC position, now he leaves 2 DC jobs in two years ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Why do teams still wish to convert TO a cover-2 base? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Why do teams still wish to convert TO a cover-2 base? Don't get it at all. It doesn't seem to get the job done unless you have great personnel to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4HCrew Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 I figured Marinelli needed to start bringing in his type of guys... as for Donnie...could be Herm's linebacker coach or something? or maybe get a HC job in college? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Don't get it at all. It doesn't seem to get the job done unless you have great personnel to begin with. Exactly my point. I mean, how many pro-bowlers are required for that thing to work against decent/creative offenses? Tampa had what, 7 pro-bowlers that were needed on defense to get to a superbowl with that scheme? Warren Sapp John Lynch Derrick Brooks Ronde Barber Simeon Rice Hardy Nickerson Donnie Abraham And people look at that in hindsight and think it was the SCHEME that made their defense good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Exactly my point. I mean, how many pro-bowlers are required for that thing to work against decent/creative offenses? Tampa had what, 7 pro-bowlers that were needed on defense to get to a superbowl with that scheme? Warren Sapp John Lynch Derrick Brooks Ronde Barber Simeon Rice Hardy Nickerson Donnie Abraham And people look at that in hindsight and think it was the SCHEME that made their defense good? Also seems that Cover 2 teams are in constant search for 2-gap, 3-gap, blah, blah, blah. Like the hunt for the white whale. Every scheme is going to have displacement of personnel that might not fit well, kinda like the problems Vilma went through here. But it seems much more dramatic than any other system in causing thsoe problems. One thing I never get-Cover 2 supposedly minimizes the importance of cornerbacks, yet Edwards cuts the 2 best corners the day the Jets hire him(admittedly there were cap considerations), and then spends the next 5 years signing every Tom, Dick, Donnie, David, Damien and Ty on the FA market at top dollar, none to any good effect. RIght now today Aaron Glenn is still the best CB Edwards ever had here, and he cut him coming through the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Donnie's HC chances are slim IMO. I see him going to Herm in KC to be possibly the DC or LB coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 That cover 2 needs that you have a D-Line that will consistgently get pressure on teh qb to make him hurry, and you need the Free Saftey (ala Lynch) who will put fear into receivers looking to exploit that middle seam in teh defnse. If you don't have BOTH of those, that seam is open for 14 yard gains all day. those are 2 tough commodities to come by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Also seems that Cover 2 teams are in constant search for 2-gap, 3-gap, blah, blah, blah. Like the hunt for the white whale. Every scheme is going to have displacement of personnel that might not fit well, kinda like the problems Vilma went through here. But it seems much more dramatic than any other system in causing thsoe problems. One thing I never get-Cover 2 supposedly minimizes the importance of cornerbacks, yet Edwards cuts the 2 best corners the day the Jets hire him(admittedly there were cap considerations), and then spends the next 5 years signing every Tom, Dick, Donnie, David, Damien and Ty on the FA market at top dollar, none to any good effect. RIght now today Aaron Glenn is still the best CB Edwards ever had here, and he cut him coming through the door. Glenn wasn't cut. He was a purge to get rid of salary through the Expansion draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Glenn wasn't cut. He was a purge to get rid of salary through the Expansion draft. I understand. There were positive salary cap consequences to the Texans move. Still, we never had a better cover CB than Glenn the whole Edwards Error. For a system that supposedly doesn't need great cover corners, we then spent 5 years trying to find cover corners after dumping 1 very good one and 1 great one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Henderson had no background in the Cover 2 that was brought in from Tampa and was not comfortable with it. Interesting. hahaha, i was thinking same thing. That would be on Bradway AND Herm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Henderson had no background in the Cover 2 that was brought in from Tampa and was not comfortable with it. Interesting. Didn't Herm still think it was the cover 2? Maybe Donnie just told him it was. Exactly my point. I mean, how many pro-bowlers are required for that thing to work against decent/creative offenses? Tampa had what, 7 pro-bowlers that were needed on defense to get to a superbowl with that scheme? <snip> Donnie Abraham And people look at that in hindsight and think it was the SCHEME that made their defense good? Well, from what I've seen of Donnie Abraham, the scheme did make him good. He was not a very good corner here. That cover 2 crap just looks for corners that can tackle. They don't necessarily cover at all. That means that without pressure from the front 4 you are dead. Glenn wasn't cut. He was a purge to get rid of salary through the Expansion draft. Right. It was worse than getting cut. They gave up Ryan Young, a promising young tackle for the privilege of the Texans taking Glenn and Coleman. Then we got to deal with these top quality dbs that Herm kept bringing in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetlag Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Donnie Hendu was at one point a solely bright light here. What the hell happened to him? Any of the Detroit boys have more incite on why Donnie was so ineffective this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Donnie Hendu was at one point a solely bright light here. What the hell happened to him? Any of the Detroit boys have more incite on why Donnie was so ineffective this year? he is a DB coach,, doesnt have the smarts to be a DC. Was in college/pros for 20 years and NEVER a DC , just a DB coach, UNTIL Bradway/herm promoted him to DC. 20 freakin years as a DB coach and NO ONE ever thought enough of him to make him a DC ANYWHERE, UNTIL the JETS. Peter Principle catching up with old Donnie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 he is a DB coach,, doesnt have the smarts to be a DC. Was in college/pros for 20 years and NEVER a DC , just a DB coach, UNTIL Bradway/herm promoted him to DC. 20 freakin years as a DB coach and NO ONE ever thought enough of him to make him a DC ANYWHERE, UNTIL the JETS. Peter Principle catching up with old Donnie. Hogwash. You can't give DH Herms wrap. 8 second half shuouts. He was the best coach on the entire staff when he was here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Hogwash. You can't give DH Herms wrap. 8 second half shuouts. He was the best coach on the entire staff when he was here. He just doesnt have it. Fire and brimstone have to have XsOs in the long run. Career DB coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 He just doesnt have it. Fire and brimstone have to have XsOs in the long run. Career DB coach. He has 2 yrs DC experience. Check his resume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 He has 2 yrs DC experience. Check his resume. before the Jet job? No way. You are wrong. Please let me know what I am missing. Here is his bio: i dont see any DC gigs????????? Prior to joining the New York Jets staff, Henderson spent five seasons with the Baltimore Ravens, and was part of the franchise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 before the Jet job? No way. You are wrong. Please let me know what I am missing. Here is his bio: i dont see any DC gigs? Meatball....1 Yr with Ny ,1 Yr with Detroit. Don't pop a blood vessle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 he is a DB coach,, doesnt have the smarts to be a DC. Was in college/pros for 20 years and NEVER a DC , just a DB coach, UNTIL Bradway/herm promoted him to DC. 20 freakin years as a DB coach and NO ONE ever thought enough of him to make him a DC ANYWHERE, UNTIL the JETS. Peter Principle catching up with old Donnie. Meatball....1 Yr with Ny ,1 Yr with Detroit. Don't pop a blood vessle. haha,, whose the meatball, read my posts.. no DC job BEFORE Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 ...and Mangini was the ballboy. Henderson has a better resume than Mangini. No matter what you think of db coaches he was a hell of a lot better than Ted Cotrell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 ...and Mangini was the ballboy. Henderson has a better resume than Mangini. No matter what you think of db coaches he was a hell of a lot better than Ted Cotrell. oh boy, thats saying alot. still doesnt change the point of thread. no one in 20 yeras thought enough of him to give him a DC job, not even at college level. mangini rose through the ranks fast. Donnie was a DB coach for 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 haha,, whose the meatball, read my posts.. no DC job BEFORE Jets. You said "Career DB coach". Before he was hired here ,sure. But as of right now the term "Career" would include his 2 stants as a DC in the NFL. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 ...and Mangini was the ballboy. Henderson has a better resume than Mangini. No matter what you think of db coaches he was a hell of a lot better than Ted Cotrell. Wurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 oh boy, thats saying alot. still doesnt change the point of thread. no one in 20 yeras thought enough of him to give him a DC job, not even at college level. mangini rose through the ranks fast. Donnie was a DB coach for 20 years. He did the job with the Jets even if you believe the SOS analysis. There is no shame in not being able to turn the pitiful Lions D around with Matt Millen's personnel in one year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 You said "Career DB coach". Before he was hired here ,sure. But as of right now the term "Career" would include his 2 stants as a DC in the NFL. Right? nice try. my post said: he is a DB coach,, doesnt have the smarts to be a DC. Was in college/pros for 20 years and NEVER a DC , just a DB coach, UNTIL Bradway/herm promoted him to DC. 20 freakin years as a DB coach and NO ONE ever thought enough of him to make him a DC ANYWHERE, UNTIL the JETS. Peter Principle catching up with old Donnie. His 2 failed DC gigs are showing him to be the career DB coach he is and I refer to him as. Now you see why no one in 18 years hired him as a DC. No XsOs. Great motivator, but you have to know XsOs to be a DC. hey if you want him so bad e-mail mangini. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 He did the job with the Jets even if you believe the SOS analysis. There is no shame in not being able to turn the pitiful Lions D around with Matt Millen's personnel in one year. maybe Eric will hire him back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 nice try. my post said: he is a DB coach,, doesnt have the smarts to be a DC. Was in college/pros for 20 years and NEVER a DC , just a DB coach, UNTIL Bradway/herm promoted him to DC. 20 freakin years as a DB coach and NO ONE ever thought enough of him to make him a DC ANYWHERE, UNTIL the JETS. Peter Principle catching up with old Donnie. His 2 failed DC gigs are showing him to be the career DB coach he is and I refer to him as. Now you see why no one in 18 years hired him as a DC. No XsOs. Great motivator, but you have to know XsOs to be a DC. hey if you want him so bad e-mail mangini. Go read Posts #19 & #20 of this thread. You said what you said. 2 Failed DC gigs? What have the lions done to build a defense in the last decade? Did the Jets defense not improve when he was here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormshadow19 Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Donnie Hendu was at one point a solely bright light here. What the hell happened to him? Any of the Detroit boys have more incite on why Donnie was so ineffective this year? Injuries. He lost Shaun Cody and Shaun Rogers for, basically, the whole season. Rogers was suspended, yes, but he was also hurt. He was gone for almost 9 weeks. Cody missed the whole season. Those were the two starting DTs. Bryant sucks. Bly sucks. well, sucks as a cover 2 corner. And Jon McGraw played. James Hall missed half the season. Here's the Lions on the IR. Injured Reserve No. Player Pos Ht Wt DOB Exp College 33 Bashir, Idrees S 6-2 198 12/7/78 6 Memphis 94 Bell, Marcus DT 6-2 325 6/1/79 6 Memphis 25 Bryant, Fernando CB 5-10 175 3/26/77 8 Alabama 24 Bryson, Shawn RB 6-1 230 11/20/76 8 Tennessee 29 Calhoun, Brian RB 5-9 202 5/8/84 R Wisconsin 75 Cody, Shaun DT 6-4 293 1/22/83 2 USC 96 Hall, James DE 6-2 280 2/4/77 7 Michigan 69 Hopson, Tyrone G 6-2 300 5/28/76 5 Eastern Kentucky 34 Jones, Kevin RB 5-11 221 8/21/82 3 Virginia Tech 92 Rogers, Shaun DT 6-4 345 3/12/79 6 Texas 67 Saipaia, Blaine G 6-3 315 8/25/78 3 Colorado State 68 Stokes, Barry G 6-4 310 12/20/73 7 Eastern Michigan 90 Swancutt III, Bill DE 6-4 270 9/4/82 2 Oregon State 74 Tucker, Rex G 6-5 315 12/20/76 8 Texas A&M 73 Verba, Ross G 6-4 305 10/31/73 10 Iowa 65 Woody, Damien G 6-3 325 11/3/77 8 Boston College 7 were on defense. Three were starters. One was an important reserve. and they expected things from swancutt. But, it doesn't matter. Jon Barry, the DB coach (I think... he either coaches the linebackers, the DB's, or the line) in Tampa will be the next Lions DC. He's Marinelli's son in law. Henderson was only going to be here for one year, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Go read Posts #19 & #20 of this thread. You said what you said. 2 Failed DC gigs? What have the lions done to build a defense in the last decade? Did the Jets defense not improve when he was here? again, you are wrong oh modmaster. my EARLER post #17, that you must have not read, stated never a DC until Jets gave him DC job. Later I stated career DB coach in #19 , cause that what I view him as. You said in post 20, again, AFTER my post 17 that he was a DC before, so again you just didnt read my post 17 CORRECTLY. Its OK, I know you are busy. we can go all day, bottom line, is u like him, i think he was average, but mainly, u didnt read post 17 before typing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdhc Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Any defense that has Jon McGraw on it is doomed to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNorth09 Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Injuries. He lost Shaun Cody and Shaun Rogers for, basically, the whole season. Rogers was suspended, yes, but he was also hurt. He was gone for almost 9 weeks. Cody missed the whole season. Those were the two starting DTs. Bryant sucks. Bly sucks. well, sucks as a cover 2 corner. And Jon McGraw played. James Hall missed half the season. Here's the Lions on the IR. Injured Reserve No. Player Pos Ht Wt DOB Exp College 33 Bashir, Idrees S 6-2 198 12/7/78 6 Memphis 94 Bell, Marcus DT 6-2 325 6/1/79 6 Memphis 25 Bryant, Fernando CB 5-10 175 3/26/77 8 Alabama 24 Bryson, Shawn RB 6-1 230 11/20/76 8 Tennessee 29 Calhoun, Brian RB 5-9 202 5/8/84 R Wisconsin 75 Cody, Shaun DT 6-4 293 1/22/83 2 USC 96 Hall, James DE 6-2 280 2/4/77 7 Michigan 69 Hopson, Tyrone G 6-2 300 5/28/76 5 Eastern Kentucky 34 Jones, Kevin RB 5-11 221 8/21/82 3 Virginia Tech 92 Rogers, Shaun DT 6-4 345 3/12/79 6 Texas 67 Saipaia, Blaine G 6-3 315 8/25/78 3 Colorado State 68 Stokes, Barry G 6-4 310 12/20/73 7 Eastern Michigan 90 Swancutt III, Bill DE 6-4 270 9/4/82 2 Oregon State 74 Tucker, Rex G 6-5 315 12/20/76 8 Texas A&M 73 Verba, Ross G 6-4 305 10/31/73 10 Iowa 65 Woody, Damien G 6-3 325 11/3/77 8 Boston College 7 were on defense. Three were starters. One was an important reserve. and they expected things from swancutt. But, it doesn't matter. Jon Barry, the DB coach (I think... he either coaches the linebackers, the DB's, or the line) in Tampa will be the next Lions DC. He's Marinelli's son in law. Henderson was only going to be here for one year, anyway. Bingo. Henderson did a good job here the two years he was here. In 2004 he turned around what had been an average defense and made it pretty good. In 2005 the defense played pretty well especially considering the qb-less offense could never stay on the field and they had lost Jason Ferguson and got scrubs like Reed and Pouha to replace him. The Jets aren't going to re-hire this guy, he'll probably end up taking a job on the B-More, Cincy or KC staff. Sutton has done a fine job this year though we need to get personnel that fit in better with the 3-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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