Jets Mock offseason

[Untouchable]

Mock Draft:

1st round: CB Chris Houston - Arkansas

2nd round: DE/LB LaMarr Woodley - Michigan

2nd round: OG Josh Beekman - Boston College

3rd round: DE Xzavie Jackson - Missouri

5th round: WR Jonathan Holland - Louisiana Tech

6th round: OT Cameron Stephenson - Rutgers

FA Signings:

DE Vonnie Holliday

RB Najeh Davenport

SS Michael Lewis

TE Daniel Graham

Re-Signings:

OT Anthony Clement

OG Wade Smith

NT Rashad Moore

CB Hank Poteat

TE/FB Sean Ryan

WR Jerricho Cotchery (Extension)

Cuts:

RB Derrick Blaylock

RB Kevan Barlow

WR Justin McCareins

FB B.J. Askew

CB David Barrett

LB Eric Barton

OT Adrian Jones

2007 Projected Starting Lineup:

QB Chad Pennington

RB Najeh Davenport/Leon Washington

FB Stacy Tutt

WR Laveranues Coles

WR Jerricho Cotchery

TE Daniel Graham/Chris Baker

LT D'Brickashaw Ferguson

LG Pete Kendall

C Nick Mangold

RG Josh Beekman

RT Anthony Clement

DE Shaun Ellis

NT Dewayne Robertson

DE Vonnie Holliday

OLB Bryan Thomas

ILB Jonathan Vilma

ILB Victor Hobson

OLB LaMarr Woodley

CB Andre Dyson

CB Chris Houston

FS Kerry Rhodes

SS Michael Lewis

[timbok]

THEY WILL DRAFT PITTMAN

[Matt39]

Davenport isnt an upgrade over Houston. PLus he's just as injury prone.

[drago]

Mock Draft:

1st round: CB Chris Houston - Arkansas

2nd round: DE/LB LaMarr Woodley - Michigan

2nd round: OG Josh Beekman - Boston College

3rd round: DE Xzavie Jackson - Missouri

5th round: WR Jonathan Holland - Louisiana Tech

6th round: OT Cameron Stephenson - Rutgers

FA Signings:

DE Vonnie Holliday

RB Najeh Davenport

SS Michael Lewis

TE Daniel Graham

I would stop being a jet fan if they take a RB in the first round, and then signed Vonnie "i suck at life" Holiday.

[timbok]

THEY NEED A RB.

[Sperm Edwards]

Why are we cutting Barton? Is he really worse than Chatham and Kassel and Schegel and Spencer and Riddle?

You want to dump an ILB? Dump Vilma - at least we'll get a first-rounder (at least) for him. And news-flash: Barton was better than Vilma in '06 and will be in '07. I've seen enough of every ballcarrier dragging Vilma 3-5 yards after first contact (and almost none for lost yardage). That is when Vilma isn't totally engulfed by any scrub G or TE or FB that gets a hand on him.

You're worshiping the wrong guy. At maybe 225 lbs or so & with his speed he'd be more valuable at SS than ILB. He's likely the smartest player we've got on defense, and that ain't nothing. But I'd rather trade him for a top-15 pick & grab Adam Carriker (who has the frame to add another 10 lbs) or Marshawn Lynch than watch Vilma struggle to reach the level of the guy some keep wanting to cut so badly.

I liked a lot of your off-season plans but this one I don't buy at all.

1. Daniel Graham is rumored to be headed for a franchise tag;

2. You're passing on a sure-thing CB in FA but are drafting one in the first round with a 50/50 shot of being an outright bust;

3. Michael Lewis got benched 7 games into the season last year for a guy I'm not convinced would have been starting on our team in '06.

4. You're cutting our best ILB to move over a guy who hasn't played there since college; you're making the assumption that Woodley is good enough to start game 1 at OLB. What if he isn't? Why get rid of Barton - to have $35M in cap room instead of $33M? So now you're starting two LB's who are moving to new positions, to complement a 3rd one who is too small for the position.

5. BJ Askew is not under contract for '07 & cannot be cut unless we re-sign him again first;

6. We are ~$25M under the cap right now. All these cuts and no big-time FA signings will put us $30-35M under the cap. Why? The purpose of available cap space (other than making sure you don't lose starters) is to use it, not to have it.

7. Beekman would be great that low. It may be optimistic to think he'll be there unless he bombs the combine with like 3 bench-press reps.

8. Jackson is too small & doesn't have the frame to become a 305-lb or more DE. He's a giant for a 4-3 DE but is on the small side in the 3-4. To really be effective we should have at least two 300-lb players on the DL. TWO 285-lb DE's won't cut it, with offensive linemen only getting bigger & bigger.

9. Rookie CB's starting from game one are usually disasters as rookies (assuming they aren't busts outright) & worse than the players we sought to upgrade from in '06.

10. Najeh Davenport was just cut from a team who needs RB help badly & is about to be let go from his 2nd team in 6 months. Now he's our savior?

I know I lay it on thick, but I would seriously cry if this was our off-season.

[Barton]

Why are we cutting Barton? Is he really worse than Chatham and Kassel and Schegel and Spencer and Riddle?

You want to dump an ILB? Dump Vilma - at least we'll get a first-rounder (at least) for him. And news-flash: Barton was better than Vilma in '06 and will be in '07. I've seen enough of every ballcarrier dragging Vilma 3-5 yards after first contact (and almost none for lost yardage). That is when Vilma isn't totally engulfed by any scrub G or TE or FB that gets a hand on him.

You're worshiping the wrong guy. At maybe 225 lbs or so & with his speed he'd be more valuable at SS than ILB. He's likely the smartest player we've got on defense, and that ain't nothing. But I'd rather trade him for a top-15 pick & grab Adam Carriker (who has the frame to add another 10 lbs) or Marshawn Lynch than watch Vilma struggle to reach the level of the guy some keep wanting to cut so badly.

There's no question that Vilma is not a fit for the 3-4.

But the question is can Mangini (and Tannenbaum) trade Jonathan Vilma, the Captain of the Defense? They'd be risking alot of heat from the rest of the players in the lockeroom, and say we have a down season, well it could be an ugly situation. Vilma is a leader on this team and Mangini doesnt have a superbowl with the Jets under his belt that would allow him to make such a daring move w/o risking major major backlash from his players.

Ultimately though, I dont see Vilma on the Jets in 3 years. He's just not a fit for this defense, and I think we either trade him, franchise him and trade him, or we let him walk in FA (not gonna happen would be my guess).

Its gonna be a situation, but I hope Vilma can somehow adapt to this defense, but I dont like the chances....

[victorjets]

But the question is can Mangini (and Tannenbaum) bench Chad Pennington, the Captain of the Offense? They'd be risking alot of heat from the rest of the players in the lockeroom, and say we have a down season, well it could be an ugly situation. Chad is a leader on this team and Mangini doesnt have a superbowl with the Jets under his belt that would allow him to make such a daring move w/o risking major major backlash from his players.

I agree.

[BoomBoomMancini]

Why are we cutting Barton? Is he really worse than Chatham and Kassel and Schegel and Spencer and Riddle?

You want to dump an ILB? Dump Vilma - at least we'll get a first-rounder (at least) for him. And news-flash: Barton was better than Vilma in '06 and will be in '07. I've seen enough of every ballcarrier dragging Vilma 3-5 yards after first contact (and almost none for lost yardage). That is when Vilma isn't totally engulfed by any scrub G or TE or FB that gets a hand on him.

You're worshiping the wrong guy. At maybe 225 lbs or so & with his speed he'd be more valuable at SS than ILB. He's likely the smartest player we've got on defense, and that ain't nothing. But I'd rather trade him for a top-15 pick & grab Adam Carriker (who has the frame to add another 10 lbs) or Marshawn Lynch than watch Vilma struggle to reach the level of the guy some keep wanting to cut so badly.

I liked a lot of your off-season plans but this one I don't buy at all.

1. Daniel Graham is rumored to be headed for a franchise tag;

2. You're passing on a sure-thing CB in FA but are drafting one in the first round with a 50/50 shot of being an outright bust;

3. Michael Lewis got benched 7 games into the season last year for a guy I'm not convinced would have been starting on our team in '06.

4. You're cutting our best ILB to move over a guy who hasn't played there since college; you're making the assumption that Woodley is good enough to start game 1 at OLB. What if he isn't? Why get rid of Barton - to have $35M in cap room instead of $33M? So now you're starting two LB's who are moving to new positions, to complement a 3rd one who is too small for the position.

5. BJ Askew is not under contract for '07 & cannot be cut unless we re-sign him again first;

6. We are ~$25M under the cap right now. All these cuts and no big-time FA signings will put us $30-35M under the cap. Why? The purpose of available cap space (other than making sure you don't lose starters) is to use it, not to have it.

7. Beekman would be great that low. It may be optimistic to think he'll be there unless he bombs the combine with like 3 bench-press reps.

8. Jackson is too small & doesn't have the frame to become a 305-lb or more DE. He's a giant for a 4-3 DE but is on the small side in the 3-4. To really be effective we should have at least two 300-lb players on the DL. TWO 285-lb DE's won't cut it, with offensive linemen only getting bigger & bigger.

9. Rookie CB's starting from game one are usually disasters as rookies (assuming they aren't busts outright) & worse than the players we sought to upgrade from in '06.

10. Najeh Davenport was just cut from a team who needs RB help badly & is about to be let go from his 2nd team in 6 months. Now he's our savior?

I know I lay it on thick, but I would seriously cry if this was our off-season.

Sperm..

You probably know more than me, and probably won't even respond to what I have to say, but think about it..

Did Vilma really play any worse than he did last year? We were saying the same thing about him when he was in the 4-3..

Obviously, the 3-4 takes the number of tackles away from a MLB, so that is the reason for his decline in stats IMO.

Fact is, Vilma hasn't been the same since his rookie season, and why is that you ask?

Because in his rookie season he had D-Rob, Ferguson, Ellis(in his prime), Abraham/Thomas...

Its 2007 now, and we still haven't even tried to replace Jason Ferguson(NT).

Thus, Vilma's play has suffered..

I know some people were saying to trade down last year, and take Ngata..

I hate to say it, but it looks like they were right..

[Barton]

I agree.

Its a legit question, to be honest.

The difference is, aside from Coles, nobody else on offense is attached to Pennington. Cotch, Mangold, Brick, the core of the Jets offense has no real ties to Pennington.

The defense is a different story. Guys like Drob, Ellis, Rhodes, Hobson have all played under the captainship of Jonathan Vilma and for the most part, defenses are tighter units I think (depending on the team), and in this case, the players on defense definetly have more ties with each other than on the offensive side of the ball.

Honestly though, if the Jets do trade Vilma, the only player I'd be worried about giving a whoot would be Kerry Rhodes. Him and Vilma are tight with each other, and I dont want to see Rhodes have backlash against Eric if he trades Vilma.

At the same time, I think Rhodes is hopefully smart enough to realize its a business and Vilma simply wasnt putting up in the 3-4.

We'll see how it goes........

[BoomBoomMancini]

Its a legit question, to be honest.

The difference is, aside from Coles, nobody else on offense is attached to Pennington. Cotch, Mangold, Brick, the core of the Jets offense has no real ties to Pennington.

The defense is a different story. Guys like Drob, Ellis, Rhodes, Hobson have all played under the captainship of Jonathan Vilma and for the most part, defenses are tighter units I think (depending on the team), and in this case, the players on defense definetly have more ties with each other than on the offensive side of the ball.

Honestly though, if the Jets do trade Vilma, the only player I'd be worried about giving a whoot would be Kerry Rhodes. Him and Vilma are tight with each other, and I dont want to see Rhodes have backlash against Eric if he trades Vilma.

At the same time, I think Rhodes is hopefully smart enough to realize its a business and Vilma simply wasnt putting up in the 3-4.

We'll see how it goes........

Do you really want to have New York Giants situation on our hands?

[Sperm Edwards]

There's no question that Vilma is not a fit for the 3-4.

But the question is can Mangini (and Tannenbaum) trade Jonathan Vilma, the Captain of the Defense? They'd be risking alot of heat from the rest of the players in the lockeroom, and say we have a down season, well it could be an ugly situation. Vilma is a leader on this team and Mangini doesnt have a superbowl with the Jets under his belt that would allow him to make such a daring move w/o risking major major backlash from his players.

Ultimately though, I dont see Vilma on the Jets in 3 years. He's just not a fit for this defense, and I think we either trade him, franchise him and trade him, or we let him walk in FA (not gonna happen would be my guess).

Its gonna be a situation, but I hope Vilma can somehow adapt to this defense, but I dont like the chances....

Who was captain of the NE defense on August 20th 2001? What team did he play for 2 weeks later?

Look, there are more factors at play than how much does Vilma weigh. But tell me you'd really rather have:

- Vilma

- Chris Houston

- Najeh Davenport

- Vonnie Holiday

- Xzavie Jackson (why are we signing a FA DE and then drafting one in rd 3 that same year when we have no 4th-rounder? Only 1 of them will play.)

instead of:

- Barton

- Clements or Samuel (we have more than enough cap room)

- Adam Carriker (from Vilma's trade)

- try to pair up orig 1st & our late 2nd to Pittsburgh to jump ahead of GB to grab Marshawn Lynch

- Blalock in early rd 2

- Banta-Cain in FA (should be fine for a year)

- I'd take a shot at McClain in rd 6 (give or take a round).

This way, we'd have:

Lynch/Leon in the backfield instead of Davenport/Leon

Blalock at OG instead of Beekman (better & he can also move over to RT)

A mauler FB who doesn't need to start year-one

DL now has Adam Carriker over Holiday (or Jackson)

LB corps is now B.Thomas - Hobson - Barton - BantaCain (all suited for the 3-4)

CB's are Clements/Dyson (sure-thing) instead of Dyson/Houston (possible bust)

SS I'd like to see what Coleman and/or Eric Smith can do in year two in this system before giving up on them & going all-out on a SS who lost his job last year to a 4th-round pick from a weak draft class who had 2 tackles the year before.

And we still have easily enough money to lock up Cotchery & Rhodes & Hobson long-term.

This is just off the top of my head.

[BoomBoomMancini]

Who was captain of the NE defense on August 20th 2001? What team did he play for 2 weeks later?

Look, there are more factors at play than how much does Vilma weigh. But tell me you'd really rather have:

- Vilma

- Chris Houston

- Najeh Davenport

- Vonnie Holiday

- Xzavie Jackson (why are we signing a FA DE and then drafting one in rd 3 that same year when we have no 4th-rounder? Only 1 of them will play.)

instead of:

- Barton

- Clements or Samuel (we have more than enough cap room)

- Adam Carriker (from Vilma's trade)

- try to pair up orig 1st & our late 2nd to Pittsburgh to jump ahead of GB to grab Marshawn Lynch

- Blalock in early rd 2

- Banta-Cain in FA (should be fine for a year)

- I'd take a shot at McClain in rd 6 (give or take a round).

This way, we'd have:

Lynch/Leon in the backfield instead of Davenport/Leon

Blalock at OG instead of Beekman (better & he can also move over to RT)

A mauler FB who doesn't need to start year-one

DL now has Adam Carriker over Holiday (or Jackson)

LB corps is now B.Thomas - Hobson - Barton - BantaCain (all suited for the 3-4)

CB's are Clements/Dyson (sure-thing) instead of Dyson/Houston (possible bust)

SS I'd like to see what Coleman and/or Eric Smith can do in year two in this system before giving up on them & going all-out on a SS who lost his job last year to a 4th-round pick from a weak draft class who had 2 tackles the year before.

And we still have easily enough money to lock up Cotchery & Rhodes & Hobson long-term.

This is just off the top of my head.

So that leaves us in cap hell for the next 3 years.

Plus a lot of things have to go right for that to happen..

And you know it won't..

GreenJetsandHam was trying to be realistic... Jets have never and will never have an offseason like that..

[rizzock]

get ready to compete for those FAs you named. Especially since my raiders will be going after Daniel Grahm big time. My raiders are 22 mil under the cap and when al davis wants something he gets it.

[Sperm Edwards]

So that leaves us in cap hell for the next 3 years.

Plus a lot of things have to go right for that to happen..

And you know it won't..

GreenJetsandHam was trying to be realistic... Jets have never and will never have an offseason like that..

Not by a long shot. ONE marquis free agent (even with Peyton Manning's contract) and a second moderate one will not take a team from $30M under the cap into "cap hell" for 3 years. Besides, a Vonnie Holiday-Dan Graham-Najeh Davenport-Michael Lewis combo is easily more expensive than one stud CB. Try thinking before typing.

It's actually not that far-fetched at all. Why would any team looking for a MLB pass on a shot at Vilma (signed for 2 more years at cheap $) in favor of using that same pick on a prospect with a chance for failure?

Carolina: Dan Morgan is a walking concussion & should be out of football for his own good already. Perfect fit.

Cincy: Simmons missed 1/3 of the season with a neck stinger & isn't the player he was; they'd love to dump his $4M cap # for a lower one. Plus Vilma is a VERY high character guy they'd covet. Perfect fit.

Buffalo: London Fletcher is a UFA & will be 33 next yr. Perfect fit.

Chiefs: Kawika Mitchell is a UFA, Herm knows & loves Vilma. Perfect fit.

He fits on any of those teams as a lone MLB (plus I'm sure others I'm not thinking of) better than here as an ILB who's a minimum of 25-30 lbs underweight for the position.

Pittsburgh isn't in such great cap shape, needs to lock up Max Starks & should love to trade down to pick up a late 2nd-rounder (points-wise it's dead even). Also seems a good fit.

And it was all just a quick idea anyway. It's a lot less far-fetched than trading a 1st & a 7th for a 2nd rounder, a bust TE, and two 6th-rounders (or whatever it was we did in 2005).

[LionelRichie]

It's actually not that far-fetched at all. Why would any team looking for a MLB pass on a shot at Vilma (signed for 2 more years at cheap $) in favor of using that same pick on a prospect with a chance for failure?

i think it would be foolish to trade vilma now. let's see what he can do his 2nd year in the system. he has all the talent and work eithic to be a star so 1 more year won't hurt. if he can't do it this year then frachise and trade during the off-season.

all this talk of trading vilma for a pick reminds me too much of fantasy football. cariker is a complete crap-shoot. i watched nebraska's bowl game this year just to see what all of the hype was about and he did absolutely nothing for 4 quarters. that doesn't mean he won't be good in the nfl but that day he stunk. vilma is a proven star in the NFL, let's see what he can do in year 2.

[PeterNorth09]

The LB's in a 3-4 scheme have to fill in a lot of holes at the line of scrimmage. Vilma is 6-1 230 lbs. He's a great player but let's be honest here he isn't that much bigger than a safety. In a 4-3 he's excellent with two 300 + lb DT's in front of him but in a 3-4 where he must regularly go head to head with linemen who outweigh him by 60-80 lbs it's tough.

We can trade Vilma for a top 15 draft pick. Ofcourse, we could just go back to a 4-3 and help Vilma, Dewayne Robertson and Eric Barton but that would be too simple.

[CoachTsurfing]

Vilma should stay at least one more year to see if he can adjust. I don't think he will be as good and I wouldn't trade him unless we get an offer that blows the doors off. If we somehow got Lynch and Carriker in the first round and then Blalock in the second we'd have to sell someone's soul to the devil.

[Gibbon]

Who was captain of the NE defense on August 20th 2001? What team did he play for 2 weeks later?

Look, there are more factors at play than how much does Vilma weigh. But tell me you'd really rather have:

- Vilma

- Chris Houston

- Najeh Davenport

- Vonnie Holiday

- Xzavie Jackson (why are we signing a FA DE and then drafting one in rd 3 that same year when we have no 4th-rounder? Only 1 of them will play.)

instead of:

- Barton"

Sperm:

One factor to consider with Barton that I haven't seen mentioned is the fact that he wasnt an every down player last season. Why? The fact that Kassell subbed in for him about every third series suggests that several things might be true of Mangini's feelings about Barton:

Theory #1. He's not an Mangini guy. Kassell played too many minutes, in my opinion, but he got the consistently and one has to imagine that he earned them in practice. Kassell is obviously more of a Mangini kind of guy. If this is true and since Kassell is signed through next season then its stands to reason that Barton's playing time in the coming season will be further reduced. So, they cut Barton because they dont want to pay him his relatively large salary to sit the bench 40-50% of the time.

Theory #2. Mangini didnt play Barton every down and gave Kassell alot of snaps because Barton is still considered to be somewhat fragile. Will the team want to pay a guy next year who they feel is not 100% healthy when they might be able to get similar production for less from Kassell/ Schlegel/ Spencer.

Theory #3. Mangini wasnt impressed by Barton's play and thats why Kassell got so many minutes (this is actually closely related to theory #1 but somewhat different). If this is the case then will they be willing to pay him his relatively high salary again while looking for his replacement.

I agree that by the end of the season Barton was the Jets most effective LB against the run. This might be enough to earn him another year with the Jets. But, I cant help but think that one of the three theories above, or a combination of them, explains why Kassell was on the field so much, even during the playoff game, when he was clearly a weak link. If any or all of the above is the reason, the Barton may seem to Mangini etc. like a very expensive player to keep.

[Sperm Edwards]

Sperm:

One factor to consider with Barton that I haven't seen mentioned is the fact that he wasnt an every down player last season. Why? The fact that Kassell subbed in for him about every third series suggests that several things might be true of Mangini's feelings about Barton:

Theory #1. He's not an Mangini guy. Kassell played too many minutes, in my opinion, but he got the consistently and one has to imagine that he earned them in practice. Kassell is obviously more of a Mangini kind of guy. If this is true and since Kassell is signed through next season then its stands to reason that Barton's playing time in the coming season will be further reduced. So, they cut Barton because they dont want to pay him his relatively large salary to sit the bench 40-50% of the time.

Theory #2. Mangini didnt play Barton every down and gave Kassell alot of snaps because Barton is still considered to be somewhat fragile. Will the team want to pay a guy next year who they feel is not 100% healthy when they might be able to get similar production for less from Kassell/ Schlegel/ Spencer.

Theory #3. Mangini wasnt impressed by Barton's play and thats why Kassell got so many minutes (this is actually closely related to theory #1 but somewhat different). If this is the case then will they be willing to pay him his relatively high salary again while looking for his replacement.

I agree that by the end of the season Barton was the Jets most effective LB against the run. This might be enough to earn him another year with the Jets. But, I cant help but think that one of the three theories above, or a combination of them, explains why Kassell was on the field so much, even during the playoff game, when he was clearly a weak link. If any or all of the above is the reason, the Barton may seem to Mangini etc. like a very expensive player to keep.

Theory #4: Undisclosed injury or lingering effects of the ankle that put him on IR in '05 affecting his conditioning.

Theory #5: Also Barton's first year in the system but not Kassell's. (I won't argue that Barton's smarter than Vilma as it doesn't seem likely.)

Not every reason has to be because Mangini dislikes him or his play. But clearly, as you point out, they are all possibilities.

I just find it ridiculous when people suggest a 3-4 defense, with a poor play vs the run the year before, get rid of their best run-stopping LB & keep the one who's smaller than many RB's & every single FB. And to do it by outright CUTTING him to clear up cap space we don't need to clear up.

[mangenious420]

We can't get rid of Barton I agree with you Sperm, but on the same hand we can't get rid of Vilma. Mr. Sperman, if you would take a second out of your day and give us a scenario in which you would be comfortable trading Vilma. [url=http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en]

[Sperm Edwards]

We can't get rid of Barton I agree with you Sperm, but on the same hand we can't get rid of Vilma. Mr. Sperman, if you would take a second out of your day and give us a scenario in which you would be comfortable trading Vilma.

I thought I just did up above. But here's one:

To Carolina for their 1st & 4th (more if we can get it). Should be high enough to grab Carriker and/or Lynch. Carolina's defense was supposed to be amazing this year. It all fell apart & one of the biggest reasons was losing Dan Morgan (again). Four solid OLmen up front is the perfect situation for Vilma. He could/would return to pro-bowl levels in that scenario; a level he won't reach here until/unless he adds another 20 lbs without losing speed.

We get a first-rounder to use on a low-risk/high upside starter; we also get a 4th-rounder back; Hobson slides over inside to where he's better suited (unless by some miracle Schlegel is ready to start).

[drago]

We get a first-rounder to use on a low-risk/high upside starter; we also get a 4th-rounder back; Hobson slides over inside to where he's better suited (unless by some miracle Schlegel is ready to start).

I like the thought of more draft picks, and that is what good teams do. It just seems pretty ballsey to drop a team captain for a DE that could by all counts be a bust. I know its a crap-shoot, maybe its that i haven't seen him play much, i was saying the same thing about mario williams last year.

Carriker could be good, but to drop Vilma for that? I don't know, risk-reward don't seem to be in our favor. At least with Vilma we know what we are going to get, like it or not.

[#27TheDominator]

I'm not really against trading Vilma for a 1st and a 4th or a top 15 pick. However, I'm skeptical that we could demand that much. I agree he's probably worth it and a good fit for some teams, but I think the second we start shopping him they will smell blood in the water. If he thinks he's being shopped it could be extremely messy.

[Sperm Edwards]

I'm not really against trading Vilma for a 1st and a 4th or a top 15 pick. However, I'm skeptical that we could demand that much. I agree he's probably worth it and a good fit for some teams, but I think the second we start shopping him they will smell blood in the water. If he thinks he's being shopped it could be extremely messy.

I think we could demand that much because he's under contract for 2 more years, unlike a franchise player who requires that high draft pick AND a gigantor new contract to boot.

[Gibbon]

Theory #4: Undisclosed injury or lingering effects of the ankle that put him on IR in '05 affecting his conditioning.

Theory #5: Also Barton's first year in the system but not Kassell's. (I won't argue that Barton's smarter than Vilma as it doesn't seem likely.)

Not every reason has to be because Mangini dislikes him or his play. But clearly, as you point out, they are all possibilities.

I just find it ridiculous when people suggest a 3-4 defense, with a poor play vs the run the year before, get rid of their best run-stopping LB & keep the one who's smaller than many RB's & every single FB. And to do it by outright CUTTING him to clear up cap space we don't need to clear up.

I think alluded to your theory #4 in my theory #2, but not as clearly. My point was if he is still unhealthy doesnt that make him more expendable?

Also, do you think Barton has any trade value that might, when combined with any combination of your theories or mine, make him one of the people the Jets might think about moving? While his value to a team looking for a permanent solution at MLB or OLB isnt as great as Vilma's a team looking for a temporary fix might be willing to trade a middle pick for him. Just a thought.

[BoomBoomMancini]

Not by a long shot. ONE marquis free agent (even with Peyton Manning's contract) and a second moderate one will not take a team from $30M under the cap into "cap hell" for 3 years. Besides, a Vonnie Holiday-Dan Graham-Najeh Davenport-Michael Lewis combo is easily more expensive than one stud CB. Try thinking before typing.

It's actually not that far-fetched at all. Why would any team looking for a MLB pass on a shot at Vilma (signed for 2 more years at cheap $) in favor of using that same pick on a prospect with a chance for failure?

Carolina: Dan Morgan is a walking concussion & should be out of football for his own good already. Perfect fit.

Cincy: Simmons missed 1/3 of the season with a neck stinger & isn't the player he was; they'd love to dump his $4M cap # for a lower one. Plus Vilma is a VERY high character guy they'd covet. Perfect fit.

Buffalo: London Fletcher is a UFA & will be 33 next yr. Perfect fit.

Chiefs: Kawika Mitchell is a UFA, Herm knows & loves Vilma. Perfect fit.

He fits on any of those teams as a lone MLB (plus I'm sure others I'm not thinking of) better than here as an ILB who's a minimum of 25-30 lbs underweight for the position.

Pittsburgh isn't in such great cap shape, needs to lock up Max Starks & should love to trade down to pick up a late 2nd-rounder (points-wise it's dead even). Also seems a good fit.

And it was all just a quick idea anyway. It's a lot less far-fetched than trading a 1st & a 7th for a 2nd rounder, a bust TE, and two 6th-rounders (or whatever it was we did in 2005).

If you could net us Carriker, Lynch, Clements, and Blalock then I want you to be the GM.

[Sperm Edwards]

If you could net us Carriker, Lynch, Clements, and Blalock then I want you to be the GM.

And give up my job as JN moderator?