POSSIBLE DEPTH CHART (DEFENSE)

[Pragmatic Bus]

If the Jets are in the happy position to have some cap space at the end of the year, you just rework some veteran contracts to pass it into next year. It won't be lost. Any vet will happily take cash today in lieu of a payment tomorrow. Cash is then spent this year and is available for next year.

This should be a happy time. Goofing around with the depth chart is off season fun. Why get chippy?

Is Schlegel or Wadsworth gonna be a keeper. Who knows? You can make a case either way. Was Schlegel a good draft pick? It is just too soon to tell. I do remember one quote from Mangini to the effect that he has seen players who were just plain bad in year 1, marginally contributing in year 2 and good players in year 3. Schlegel? He got the year 1 part down. Let's wait and see about years 2 and 3.

Meanwhile, be happy. We haven't lost a game yet.

exactly! i posted this chart for fun. if somebody wants to be anal about it thats there perogative

[Gibbon]

Well, at least you listed all the starters. The original "depth chart" didn't even have eleven players on it. I guess you meant E.Coleman as the other S? I would have done my own, but mine basically mimics last years starters with Coleman at DE for Kimo.

I think E. Smith will get more time at safety. I think Bowens and maybe Wadsworth will see significant time on pass rush downs and Bowens will challenge to start. I hope Schlegel shows enough to see some part time fill in at ILB. I think we will add 1 starter in the draft-possibly at LB or CB, but I wouldn't rule out DE. We have bodies, but nobody that can't be replaced. If not, at least add 2 guys that will get some run. I'd hope to land a backup NT, but it's not too likely.

Salary cap room does go away. You don't get to carry it over to the next year. As long as you don't get loaded down with a bunch of long term deals or a signing bonus that has to be pro-rated or accelerated when the player is cut having cap room in '07 will save us exactly nothing in '08. We do not get a bonus for not spending up to the cap. There is no need to cut Barton to pay for Bowens and the other FA's contracts. We have enough money to sign more.

Maybe I dont fully understand the cap. What I meant was that if the Jets went into this season 12 million under the cap and the cap number goes up every season then that would be that much more cap room next year.

[green_blood]

schlegel sucks. period. he should just quit before he gets to ahead of himself and go memorize the bible and jump on wild boars and slit their necks. dammit, when i first heard about the wild boar thing, i was pumped for a while. then i thought about it, what kind of retard would bother to jump onto a wild boar to slit its neck?

[Pragmatic Bus]

schlegel sucks. period. he should just quit before he gets to ahead of himself and go memorize the bible and jump on wild boars and slit their necks. dammit, when i first heard about the wild boar thing, i was pumped for a while. then i thought about it, what kind of retard would bother to jump onto a wild boar to slit its neck?

spartacus....? hmm?

[PeterNorth09]

schlegel sucks. period. he should just quit before he gets to ahead of himself and go memorize the bible and jump on wild boars and slit their necks. dammit, when i first heard about the wild boar thing, i was pumped for a while. then i thought about it, what kind of retard would bother to jump onto a wild boar to slit its neck?

Schlegel is an idiot.

[Thai Jet]

Schlegel is an idiot.

Are you speaking from experience? I mean I'm just askin .

[#27TheDominator]

exactly! i posted this chart for fun. if somebody wants to be anal about it thats there perogative

Anal? WTF do I care? You requested we "discuss." I discussed. Sorry you don't approve of my comments, but I don't think Wadsworth will start and I believe he'll spend more time at DE than OLB. Oops. Sorry, I guess I wasn't supposed to comment on the players. The little colored dots were very nice.

Maybe I dont fully understand the cap. What I meant was that if the Jets went into this season 12 million under the cap and the cap number goes up every season then that would be that much more cap room next year.

If you can figure out how Schlegel will be a big time contributor I'm sure you understand the cap fine. Depending on when the bonus is applied, this year's contracts have no bearing on the '08 cap. We can't pass the savings over, although as addage mentioned, we can rework deals to pay guys now money that would be due in '08. IIRC there is a deadline for those deals. I think it's in December. Just don't think it's worth cutting Barton now to save $$ next year.

[Gibbon]

[

If you can figure out how Schlegel will be a big time contributor I'm sure you understand the cap fine. Depending on when the bonus is applied, this year's contracts have no bearing on the '08 cap. We can't pass the savings over, although as addage mentioned, we can rework deals to pay guys now money that would be due in '08. IIRC there is a deadline for those deals. I think it's in December. Just don't think it's worth cutting Barton now to save $$ next year.

Dont count on my ability to figure out either. My statements about Schlegel are just my hopes and opinions as a fan of both the Jets and the Buckeyes. I certainly didnt intend to turn this thread into another Schlegel discussion. I simply listed him on my depth chart and then defended that inclusion.

I'll take your explanation of the salary cap situation. Just seemed to me that saving 3.5 million on a player who doesnt take all of the snaps and is near the end of his contract would be a logical move financially particularly considering the number of people on the roster at his position and the additions to the team.

If Mangini feels that Schlegel/ Kassell (or just so PeterNorth doesnt wet himself again) Kassell/ Schlegel or Hobson/ Schlegel or Hobson/ Kassell or Schlegel/Hobson or Kassell/ Hobson can be as effective at the ILB opposite Vilma as Barton and they are cheaper to keep why not try to move Barton for a mid round pick or if you cant get what you want in a trade let him go and save the 3.5 million. If I thought that Mangini thought this team was going to have a realistic shot at winning the Super Bowl this season then I'd see the logic in keeping Barton. But, I THINK (see Pete this is a statement of my opinion) Mangini etc believe we are still at least a year away (which also explains not spending all the money they could) and therefore keeping Barton and paying him makes less sense.

[Gibbon]

Are you speaking from experience? I mean I'm just askin .

Yes, there is no more experienced idiot on this board than PeterNorth09. I may disagree with him on lots of issues, but no one knows more about being an idiot than Pete.

[SouthernJet]

[quote=Gibbon;476542 My statements about Schlegel are just my hopes and opinions as a fan of both the Jets and the Buckeyes. I certainly didnt intend to turn this thread into another Schlegel discussion. I simply listed him on my depth chart and then defended that inclusion.

.

I dont think the problem is that you listed him, but that you listed him as the STARTER!!!!

[Gibbon]

I dont think the problem is that you listed him, but that you listed him as the STARTER!!!!

I didnt know that I wasnt allowed to have the opinion that he would be a starter for the Jets. Sorry I offended you Mr. Castro.

[SouthernJet]

I didnt know that I wasnt allowed to have the opinion that he would be a starter for the Jets. Sorry I offended you Mr. Castro.

again, you didnt offend me,, i am just telling you why you got the reaction,,

the fact you listed him as a starter after he barely hasnt even played..

hey , i hope he makes it,, good for jets,, but if he starts , then it will quite a meteroic rise from 'cant contribute in game or special teams, i.e. Mr. Inactive', to #1 on depth chart,,

But, stranger things have happened..

[johnny green balls]

schlegel starting? :rl:

tuisapoopoo has a better shot of starting than schlowgel.

[TNJet]

schlegel starting? :rl:

tuisapoopoo has a better shot of starting than schlowgel.

thats a stretch dude.Everyone on the Jets has a better chance than Tuiasasucko.

[johnny green balls]

thats a stretch dude.Everyone on the Jets has a better chance than Tuiasasucko.

i meant tuisadoodoo has a better shot at starting at LB than schblowgel!!

[TNJet]

i meant tuisadoodoo has a better shot at starting at LB than schblowgel!!

another stretch

[johnny green balls]

another stretch

as are the chances of you getting a joke anytime this decade.

[Gibbon]

again, you didnt offend me,, i am just telling you why you got the reaction,,

the fact you listed him as a starter after he barely hasnt even played..

hey , i hope he makes it,, good for jets,, but if he starts , then it will quite a meteroic rise from 'cant contribute in game or special teams, i.e. Mr. Inactive', to #1 on depth chart,,

But, stranger things have happened..

Fair enough. I was just pointing out that the intent of my original post was not to make this into a pro v. anti Schlegel thread. I listed him as starter because I believe he has a shot at becoming that by the end of the season. As I said I think the Jets drafted him because he is physically suited for the roll of ILB in the 3-4 and his leadership skills. I think they had little intention of playing him last year and spent the year developing him and his understanding of the system.

I guess I dont understand why me listing the Jets third round pick last year as the co-starter (actually) with Kassell would cause such a big reaction.

[TNJet]

as are the chances of you getting a joke anytime this decade.

haha I was kiddin' man.I got ya.

[SouthernJet]

I guess I dont understand why me listing the Jets third round pick last year as the co-starter (actually) with Kassell would cause such a big reaction.

Because most would have expected that a 3rd round future starter could have at least helped as a 2nd/3rd string anything,,LB, special teams etc..

[jetfuel]

Going from the bloated roster that they currently have, this would be my guess on the Defensive DEPTH CHART. I do think Von O will be cut so I didn

[will]

Going from the bloated roster that they currently have, this would be my guess on the Defensive DEPTH CHART. I do think Von O will be cut so I didn

[jetfuel]

What? Schlegel on the roster over Chatham? Blasphemy!!!

Seriously, I think Drew Coleman is nickel back material at best. Jet fans have to hope that Justin Miller drinks some of the Mangini coolade and asserts himself as the starting CB opposite Dyson. I say this even if the Jets draft a CB in the first round.

Also, last year the Jets typically kept seven LBs on the game day roster so if you want both Wadsworth and Bowens to back up at OLB then you have to choose between Schlegel and Kassell. You have already cut Spencer (#53).

I never said I thought it was ideal to have Drew Coleman start at CB but I trust him more at this point than Miller and anyone else on the current roster. Miller has the tools to be a starter but he needs to perform on the field. Drew did a great job starting last year for a raw 6th round pick and he will improve. As of now, Miller is more suited as the nickel back until proven otherwise. Personally, I agree and I would love to see Miller start if he earns it as he is more physically gifted than Coleman.

I don't want to keep Schlegel over Chatham but I think they would if the choice were given. Chatham plays OLB anyway. I agree with you in that I personally would rather keep Chatham but Mangini and staff just love the wild boar chaser and unfortunately I think they will keep Schlegel. Let's hope I am wrong because I'd like to see Schlegel go more than anyone ... believe me.

I don't think Spencer will even have a chance to make the roster this year which is why I disregarded him. They usually carry 8 LB's on the roster ... maybe 7 on gameday but 8 on the roster (this is a 3-4 base team). As I have it constructed I guess you can say that Schlegel would be inactive for most games ... I'm sure you have seen that they rotate who is scratched for any given game depending on what they feel they need most for the opponent they are facing and how guys may perform during the week.

Also, like I said I'm sure the draft will change things somewhat and Wadsworth and others will have to prove they belong in camp and pre-season. I'm not about to predict every cut that will be made because we need to see where everyone fits in first with all these new faces.

[Gibbon]

Because most would have expected that a 3rd round future starter could have at least helped as a 2nd/3rd string anything,,LB, special teams etc..

I guess technically he did help on ST in four games, but I know what you mean. I expected him to see more action and get more chances to contribute as well. As far as whether or not this indicates he can be a starter at some point in the coming season is concerned we just have different opinions about the significance of his inactivity last season.

I know (because I'm sure we've discussed it already in some thread) none of my arguments in his favor are going to change your mind and I have readily admitted that this is just my opinion as a fan.

I was surprised that my listing Schlegel ahead of Kassell resulted in the response I got.

[johnny green balls]

I guess technically he did help on ST in four games, but I know what you mean. I expected him to see more action and get more chances to contribute as well. As far as whether or not this indicates he can be a starter at some point in the coming season is concerned we just have different opinions about the significance of his inactivity last season.

I know (because I'm sure we've discussed it already in some thread) none of my arguments in his favor are going to change your mine and I have readily admitted that this is just my opinion as a fan.

I was surprised that my listing Schlegel ahead of Kassell resulted in the response I got.

why do you think they held schlegel out last year? because he was too good??

[will]

I guess technically he did help on ST in four games, but I know what you mean. I expected him to see more action and get more chances to contribute as well. As far as whether or not this indicates he can be a starter at some point in the coming season is concerned we just have different opinions about the significance of his inactivity last season.

I know (because I'm sure we've discussed it already in some thread) none of my arguments in his favor are going to change your mind and I have readily admitted that this is just my opinion as a fan.

I was surprised that my listing Schlegel ahead of Kassell resulted in the response I got.

I dont want to pile on re Schlegel but his problem is that he cannot play against the pass. And in the NFL there is no such thing as a passing down or a running down. If the opposition sees something they can exploit they will attack the weak link (ie, throw at Schlegel).

And in terms of his position on the Jets, all of these signings signal to me that the Jets intend to move Hobson to ILB to either rotate with Barton, replace Barton or toggle b/w ILB and OLB. So, Schlegel is moving down the depth chart rather than up it.

[Gibbon]

why do you think they held schlegel out last year? because he was too good??

I really didnt want to go into that in this thread. Here's a brief summary:

1. 3rd round picks are not normally expected to step into a starters roll unless there is an injury or no real veteran competition.

2. Of all the rookies picked last year Schlegel had more veteran depth in front of him than any other except Clemens. Vilma, Barton, Kassell meant that he would have had to be world beater coming out of camp to break into the rotation.

3. Schlegel, like the veterans, had to learn the 3-4. Barton had 3-4 experience, Vilma is the Defensive captain and heart of the D. Kassell was a five year vet. and a Mangini guy coming off his best season ever.

4. Because they were still learning the 3-4 the veteran LBs were given a pass on the first half of the season as long as they showed improvement. To get ahead of one of them Schlegel couldnt just be as good he had to show that he was clearly better. Thats a tall order for a rookie with quality veterans in front of him. Mangini said he played the guy who gave him the best chance to win -- so for one of those guys to be Schlegel he had to be head and shoulders better.

5. Looking beyond this season -- IF the Jets were looking to get any value from Barton in a trade he had to play. This is of course pure speculation.

6. Special Teams. I was surprised and disturbed that Schlegel's ST play was so limited. But a couple of things might explain it. Because of game day roster limitations the 2nd string players with speed and who play D have to play ST. That meant that two spots were taken up by 2nd string LBs Chatham and Kassell (Chatham was the ST captain and Kassell had lots of experience) at least 1 by a back up CB, 2 by safeties (E. Smith and Washington), and even some D linemen. In addition you have backup RBs (Askew, Stacey Tutt) tight ends, and WRs (Brad Smith, Justin McCarrins, Wallace Wright) who are on the game day roster and therefor for practical purposes are pressed into ST duty. Add to that the fact that most Most teams have a ST specialist and like many the Jets is an LB -- Spencer and one spot is taken up by other specialists like the kicker, the punter, and the deep snapper and it can be hard for a 3rd string LB to make the active roster for ST.

Kick off team

Kicker

3LBs

2 safeties

1 CB

2 WRs

1 RB

1 TE

All of whom are in the two deep makes little room for Schlegel on ST.

My point is that if your not in the two deep its hard to make the active roster and I gave my explanations above for why he didnt crack the two deep.

I dont think that it was a single one of the factors listed above but a combination of all of them. And, while I dont believe its the case, it is of course possible that Schlegel was just too terrible to play.

[johnny green balls]

I really didnt want to go into that in this thread. Here's a brief summary:

1. 3rd round picks are not normally expected to step into a starters roll unless there is an injury or no real veteran competition.

2. Of all the rookies picked last year Schlegel had more veteran depth in front of him than any other except Clemens. Vilma, Barton, Kassell meant that he would have had to be world beater coming out of camp to break into the rotation.

3. Schlegel, like the veterans, had to learn the 3-4. Barton had 3-4 experience, Vilma is the Defensive captain and heart of the D. Kassell was a five year vet. and a Mangini guy coming off his best season ever.

4. Because they were still learning the 3-4 the veteran LBs were given a pass on the first half of the season as long as they showed improvement. To get ahead of one of them Schlegel couldnt just be as good he had to show that he was clearly better. Thats a tall order for a rookie with quality veterans in front of him. Mangini said he played the guy who gave him the best chance to win -- so for one of those guys to be Schlegel he had to be head and shoulders better.

5. Looking beyond this season -- IF the Jets were looking to get any value from Barton in a trade he had to play. This is of course pure speculation.

6. Special Teams. I was surprised and disturbed that Schlegel's ST play was so limited. But a couple of things might explain it. Because of game day roster limitations the 2nd string players with speed and who play D have to play ST. That meant that two spots were taken up by 2nd string LBs Chatham and Kassell (Chatham was the ST captain and Kassell had lots of experience) at least 1 by a back up CB, 2 by safeties (E. Smith and Washington), and even some D linemen. In addition you have backup RBs (Askew, Stacey Tutt) tight ends, and WRs (Brad Smith, Justin McCarrins, Wallace Wright) who are on the game day roster and therefor for practical purposes are pressed into ST duty. Add to that the fact that most Most teams have a ST specialist and like many the Jets is an LB -- Spencer and one spot is taken up by other specialists like the kicker, the punter, and the deep snapper and it can be hard for a 3rd string LB to make the active roster for ST.

Kick off team

Kicker

3LBs

2 safeties

1 CB

2 WRs

1 RB

1 TE

All of whom are in the two deep makes little room for Schlegel on ST.

My point is that if your not in the two deep its hard to make the active roster and I gave my explanations above for why he didnt crack the two deep.

I dont think that it was a single one of the factors listed above but a combination of all of them. And, while I dont believe its the case, it is of course possible that Schlegel was just too terrible to play.

or you could follow the theorum of occum's razor: he sucks.

[Ghost]

who's Habson?

HAHAHAHAHAH

[drago]

I really didnt want to go into that in this thread. Here's a brief summary:

1. 3rd round picks are not normally expected to step into a starters roll unless there is an injury or no real veteran competition.

2. Of all the rookies picked last year Schlegel had more veteran depth in front of him than any other except Clemens. Vilma, Barton, Kassell meant that he would have had to be world beater coming out of camp to break into the rotation.

3. Schlegel, like the veterans, had to learn the 3-4. Barton had 3-4 experience, Vilma is the Defensive captain and heart of the D. Kassell was a five year vet. and a Mangini guy coming off his best season ever.

4. Because they were still learning the 3-4 the veteran LBs were given a pass on the first half of the season as long as they showed improvement. To get ahead of one of them Schlegel couldnt just be as good he had to show that he was clearly better. Thats a tall order for a rookie with quality veterans in front of him. Mangini said he played the guy who gave him the best chance to win -- so for one of those guys to be Schlegel he had to be head and shoulders better.

5. Looking beyond this season -- IF the Jets were looking to get any value from Barton in a trade he had to play. This is of course pure speculation.

6. Special Teams. I was surprised and disturbed that Schlegel's ST play was so limited. But a couple of things might explain it. Because of game day roster limitations the 2nd string players with speed and who play D have to play ST. That meant that two spots were taken up by 2nd string LBs Chatham and Kassell (Chatham was the ST captain and Kassell had lots of experience) at least 1 by a back up CB, 2 by safeties (E. Smith and Washington), and even some D linemen. In addition you have backup RBs (Askew, Stacey Tutt) tight ends, and WRs (Brad Smith, Justin McCarrins, Wallace Wright) who are on the game day roster and therefor for practical purposes are pressed into ST duty. Add to that the fact that most Most teams have a ST specialist and like many the Jets is an LB -- Spencer and one spot is taken up by other specialists like the kicker, the punter, and the deep snapper and it can be hard for a 3rd string LB to make the active roster for ST.

Kick off team

Kicker

3LBs

2 safeties

1 CB

2 WRs

1 RB

1 TE

All of whom are in the two deep makes little room for Schlegel on ST.

My point is that if your not in the two deep its hard to make the active roster and I gave my explanations above for why he didnt crack the two deep.

I dont think that it was a single one of the factors listed above but a combination of all of them. And, while I dont believe its the case, it is of course possible that Schlegel was just too terrible to play.

POTW NOM

well thought out post.

[Gibbon]

or you could follow the theorum of occum's razor: he sucks.

You asked for an explanation. I gave you one.

I guess thats what I get for attempting a thoughtful explanation. Nice response. Well thought out argument. If you had read more closely you'd see that I actually included your thought provoking and insightful theory.

Your input here is about as useful as t!ts on a boar hog.

[Pragmatic Bus]

Anal? WTF do I care? You requested we "discuss." I discussed. Sorry you don't approve of my comments, but I don't think Wadsworth will start and I believe he'll spend more time at DE than OLB. Oops. Sorry, I guess I wasn't supposed to comment on the players. The little colored dots were very nice.

If you can figure out how Schlegel will be a big time contributor I'm sure you understand the cap fine. Depending on when the bonus is applied, this year's contracts have no bearing on the '08 cap. We can't pass the savings over, although as addage mentioned, we can rework deals to pay guys now money that would be due in '08. IIRC there is a deadline for those deals. I think it's in December. Just don't think it's worth cutting Barton now to save $$ next year.

i didn't call you anal because your discussing i called you anal because you called my posts stupid

[Pragmatic Bus]

Going from the bloated roster that they currently have, this would be my guess on the Defensive DEPTH CHART. I do think Von O will be cut so I didn

[Xcel2NuFX]

the question mark is there because there is not enough talent there to make an impact. eric coleman and anthony shlegel are good players but are not impact players

So since Eric Coleman isn't an "impact player" we forget the fact he's started the past two years at SS and has no offseason injury that I'm aware of?

[Pragmatic Bus]

So since Eric Coleman isn't an "impact player" we forget the fact he's started the past two years at SS and has no offseason injury that I'm aware of?

he is good but not great