LT or JB?

[drago]

Some of you might jump all over my back on this...Who's better Landian Tomlinson, or Jim Brown?

If you put LT in the same era as brown i believe LT would have had a longer and better career since he would be so much faster than any defender they would have to offer. Not only that, the defenses now are much more evolved and able to stop a single player. Yet LT still does the damage that he does.

Had they both played in the same time period Jim Brown would have still had the bigger impact on the way that he ran, but LT would have been a more effective runner.

Last point. If you put Jim Brown in a jersey with todays players, i have no doubt he would be very successful, but not to the degree that he was when he played.

[NIGHT STALKER]

Having grown up in that era, my answer is Jim Brown, Jim Brown and oh yeah, Jim Brown.

Brown played in 12 and 14 game era...there weren't as many teams and the rosters were smaller...and at 6'2 and 230 lbs, the guy not only ran away from opponents, but he could bowl you over.

The clincher is he only played 9 seasons...each of them as a pro bowler.

[drago]

Having grown up in that era, my answer is Jim Brown, Jim Brown and oh yeah, Jim Brown.

Brown played in 12 and 14 game era...there weren't as many teams and the rosters were smaller...and at 6'2 and 230 lbs, the guy not only ran away from opponents, but he could bowl you over.

The clincher is he only played 9 seasons...each of them as a pro bowler.

My thinking is, that in todays game, he'll be running into guys that are the same size as he was. He was just so far ahead of his time back then.

[DMaynard]

It is very difficult to compare players from different eras. But Jim Brown was very, very special. If you watch a lot of his runs, he was literally trotting away from guys. If the guys chasing him were faster, he would have run faster. He was just that good.

How well would he play today? Well, he is 71 years old but is still in incredible shape.

Seriously, a 25 year old Jim Brown would be the best if he played in the year 2025.

[The Troll]

I think old-timers over-rate Jim Brown simply because he was great and abscence makes the heart grow fonder.

How can you say Jim Brown is the GOAT whenever he was immediately followed in Cleveland by two more HOFers? If that happened nowadays, we would call them all system backs.

Jim Brown may very well be the best running back of all-time. But no way is it undebatable. When he retires, I believe Tomlinson will wear the crown.

[DMaynard]

I think old-timers over-rate Jim Brown simply because he was great and abscence makes the heart grow fonder.

How can you say Jim Brown is the GOAT whenever he was immediately followed in Cleveland by two more HOFers? If that happened nowadays, we would call them all system backs.

Jim Brown may very well be the best running back of all-time. But no way is it undebatable. When he retires, I believe Tomlinson will wear the crown.

I recall Leroy Kelly replacing Brown (Ernie Green moved from HB to FB). Who was the other HOFer who immediately followed Brown?

[Kentucky Jet]

It is very difficult to compare players from different eras. But Jim Brown was very, very special. If you watch a lot of his runs, he was literally trotting away from guys. If the guys chasing him were faster, he would have run faster. He was just that good.

How well would he play today? Well, he is 71 years old but is still in incredible shape.

Seriously, a 25 year old Jim Brown would be the best if he played in the year 2025.

and I agree with you.

[The Troll]

I recall Leroy Kelly replacing Brown (Ernie Green moved from HB to FB). Who was the other HOFer who immediately followed Brown?

Bobby Mitchell. He was there at the same time as Brown, and did most of his damage in Washington, as a receiver. I guess I should have looked that one up before I cited it.

And, for clarification, I'm not saying Brown was a system back. I'm sure he wasn't. But, in that same scenario today, we might look at it as a Denver situation.

[NIGHT STALKER]

I think old-timers over-rate Jim Brown simply because he was great and abscence makes the heart grow fonder.

How can you say Jim Brown is the GOAT whenever he was immediately followed in Cleveland by two more HOFers? If that happened nowadays, we would call them all system backs.

Jim Brown may very well be the best running back of all-time. But no way is it undebatable. When he retires, I believe Tomlinson will wear the crown.

See, here's the thing. It's debatable with fans who have seen them both play...and I have.

Not that this has anything to do with football, but Jim Brown was also a world class lacrosse player.

[The Troll]

See, here's the thing. It's debatable with fans who have seen them both play...and I have.

Not that this has anything to do with football, but Jim Brown was also a world class lacrosse player.

Yeah, I know that. Most consider him the greatest lacrosse player of all-time.

I never saw Jim Brown play, Obviously, I have only seen highlights of him. I just have a hard time believing that no one has EVER been better. And if no one has, what will it take for someone to ever be considered better?

[Boozer76]

See, here's the thing. It's debatable with fans who have seen them both play...and I have.

Not that this has anything to do with football, but Jim Brown was also a world class lacrosse player.

That's a lame approach IMO. We are all football fans, and while many of us weren't able to see Brown live, we've certainly seen tons of film and can weigh in with opinion.

As it stands today, not counting the difference in era (ie average player speed and size), it is without a doubt Brown. By the end of Tomlinson's career, assuming he does not sustain injuries, I can't see how it couldn't be Tomlinson. The man dominates games as much as any RB in history right now, and he can do it receiving, running, with speed, with power, with moves, with grace. He is a total package. The only other RB I've ever seen with so many physical gifts was Bo Jackson.

Jim Brown did have an undeniable edge in the fact that he had the size and speed of today's typical RB, facing D's that weren't even close to the size of the typical defenders today. Hell, the average DE weight was 210-230 lbs. Today that is a Safety's size. A DE is anywhere from 250 on the very light end to 295lbs. While this is the case of all sports, it is something to be considered.

[ShadowJet35]

Back then, the lineman were considered big if they hit 250+, now, you have backs that size, and if anyone was that size or bigger then, they were slow as hell, now you have guys 300+ still running 10 yards a second, It is harder and more of an accomplishment to run in today's game, if Jim Brown were playing today he would be good, but not even close to how he was during his old days.

[#27TheDominator]

How big and fast would Jim Brown have been if he grew up drinking Similac and having the chemical advantage? Unless you're like Jeff Kent and think Babe Ruth was juicing.

[NIGHT STALKER]

Yeah, I know that. Most consider him the greatest lacrosse player of all-time.

I never saw Jim Brown play, Obviously, I have only seen highlights of him. I just have a hard time believing that no one has EVER been better. And if no one has, what will it take for someone to ever be considered better?

I just looked up your profile...you're the exact same age as my son. Like him, I'm not going to be able to convince you...we go round and round.

[The Troll]

I just looked up your profile...you're the exact same age as my son. Like him, I'm not going to be able to convince you...we go round and round.

Well, if Tomlinson finishes as the career leader in rush yards, touchdowns, and receptions by a running back, all of which are very possible, a lot of people will STILL consider Jim Brown the greatest.

It don't believe it's me that needs the convincing.

[#27TheDominator]

As it stands today, not counting the difference in era (ie average player speed and size), it is without a doubt Brown. By the end of Tomlinson's career, assuming he does not sustain injuries, I can't see how it couldn't be Tomlinson. The man dominates games as much as any RB in history right now, and he can do it receiving, running, with speed, with power, with moves, with grace. He is a total package. The only other RB I've ever seen with so many physical gifts was Bo Jackson.

Not saying you are chatting up Bo, but it's funny. A lot of you guys love Bo Jackson, but I always felt he was overrated. Had a great ypc, but never had 1000 in a season and I don't think he ever had too many tds. A lot of that had to do with the baseball, but that probably helped keep him healthy. Part of that comes from that overrated run over Boz - Derrick Blaylock could have run over Bosworth if he had that angle. I'd have taken a guy like, say Billy Sims over him, let alone Payton, OJ or Brown.

As for physical gifts Herschel Walker was as great an athlete as ever walked the earth, but I guess he didn't have much grace or "wiggle."

[NIGHT STALKER]

That's a lame approach IMO. We are all football fans, and while many of us weren't able to see Brown live, we've certainly seen tons of film and can weigh in with opinion.

As it stands today, not counting the difference in era (ie average player speed and size), it is without a doubt Brown. By the end of Tomlinson's career, assuming he does not sustain injuries, I can't see how it couldn't be Tomlinson. The man dominates games as much as any RB in history right now, and he can do it receiving, running, with speed, with power, with moves, with grace. He is a total package. The only other RB I've ever seen with so many physical gifts was Bo Jackson.

Jim Brown did have an undeniable edge in the fact that he had the size and speed of today's typical RB, facing D's that weren't even close to the size of the typical defenders today. Hell, the average DE weight was 210-230 lbs. Today that is a Safety's size. A DE is anywhere from 250 on the very light end to 295lbs. While this is the case of all sports, it is something to be considered.

So, what you're telling me is that because you saw a **** load of tape of Jim Brown, that is good enough to debate me or anyone else that saw him play live?

WTF do we need scouts and combines for then? We should all just rely on tape. Damn, I wish my old man was alive so I could tell him I watched enough highlight reels of Joe DiMaggio to debate him on whether he was as good as Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays...damn Boozer, you sure got me...

And doesn't LT have an edge having 300 lb+ linemen blocking for him? And look up LT's best year yardage wise...Brown has him by 50 or so yards with two less games...it's a debate that has no real answer. You're comparing different eras...but, if you're going on physical stature, Brown was 4 inches taller and weighed about 30 pounds more. Believe me, if it were the other way around, you'd be using that as an argument in your favor.

[DMaynard]

Back then, the lineman were considered big if they hit 250+, now, you have backs that size, and if anyone was that size or bigger then, they were slow as hell, now you have guys 300+ still running 10 yards a second, It is harder and more of an accomplishment to run in today's game, if Jim Brown were playing today he would be good, but not even close to how he was during his old days.

People get a little carried away with this different era thing. Human beings evolve over thousands of years, not fourty. Yes, players, due to training equipment and methods, nutrition, steroids, etc., in general, are bigger and faster, than 40 years ago. But there are exceptions. Many. Jim Brown was a physical phenom who would dominate anytime. Bob Hayes was faster than any WR playing today. Mel Renfro was faster than any defensive back playing today. Deacon Jones was faster than any defensive end playing today. Bobby Bell was faster than any linebacker playing today. Gene Upshaw was faster than any guard playing today.

[ShadowJet35]

People get a little carried away with this different era thing. Human beings evolve over thousands of years, not fourty. Yes, players, due to training equipment and methods, nutrition, steroids, etc., in general, are bigger and faster, than 40 years ago. But there are exceptions. Many. Jim Brown was a physical phenom who would dominate anytime. Bob Hayes was faster than any WR playing today. Mel Renfro was faster than any defensive back playing today. Deacon Jones was faster than any defensive end playing today. Bobby Bell was faster than any linebacker playing today. Gene Upshaw was faster than any guard playing today.

But all the players you listed would be undersized playing today

[NIGHT STALKER]

People get a little carried away with this different era thing. Human beings evolve over thousands of years, not fourty. Yes, players, due to training equipment and methods, nutrition, steroids, etc., in general, are bigger and faster, than 40 years ago. But there are exceptions. Many. Jim Brown was a physical phenom who would dominate anytime. Bob Hayes was faster than any WR playing today. Mel Renfro was faster than any defensive back playing today. Deacon Jones was faster than any defensive end playing today. Bobby Bell was faster than any linebacker playing today. Gene Upshaw was faster than any guard playing today.

Good post...and Ray Guy was the best punter I ever saw...three blocked punts in his entire career. And speaking of linebackers...how about Dick Butkus? Best MLB that ever played.

[ShadowJet35]

Good post...and Ray Guy was the best punter I ever saw...three blocked punts in his entire career. And speaking of linebackers...how about Dick Butkus? Best MLB that ever played.

I'm not saying the players from back in the day weren't great THEN, but now they would be decently good.

[NIGHT STALKER]

I'm not saying the players from back in the day weren't great THEN, but now they would be decently good.

Shadow, it's a topic that can be a pissing contest forever...you'll just never know for sure. Let me ask you this...how good would a healthy Joe Namath be with this current Jets team? Watch it, this question is loaded...LOL.

[Arsis]

I personally prefer BJ.

[PeterNorth09]

Barry Sanders is the greatest running back of all-time. You know what sold me on it? When Bill Romonowski was on the Howard Stern show a coulpe years back Artie asked him who he thought was the greatest RB of all-time. Without even thinking Romo said it was Barry Sanders. Who better to judge than a guy like Romo who played for so long and saw so many different backs?

As for Jim Brown vs. LT it's probably too close to call. I'd probably take LT in his prime but who knows maybe Brown would be a beast in today's NFL?

[The Troll]

Good post...and Ray Guy was the best punter I ever saw...three blocked punts in his entire career. And speaking of linebackers...how about Dick Butkus? Best MLB that ever played.

Ray Guy is unanimously held as the greatest punter of all-time, but blocked punts is hardly the measure of him. Chris Gardocki never had a punt blocked in his entire career. That doesn't make him an all-time great.

[green_blood]

LT

[Blackout]

emmit smith > jim brown > walter payton > LT

[Blackout]

I personally prefer BJ.

brandon jacobs????

[The Troll]

emmit smith > jim brown > walter payton > LT

Not even close.

Emmitt, to me, is under-rated because no one really gives him any credit as a great running back. They credit his offensive line. But there has never been a tougher, more selfless RB that better excelled in all phases of the game than Emmitt Smith.

That being said, no way in hell is he the GOAT. He wasn't even better than Barry Sanders. He's borderline top 5, definitely top ten.

[DMaynard]

But all the players you listed would be undersized playing today

True, but everything is relative. Like someone else mentioned, if Jim Brown played today, yes, he would be going against 300 lb defensive linemen, but his blockers would also be 300 lbs.

The only real way you compare players from different eras is to evaluate them against their peers at the time. During Brown's nine years, he was head and shoulders the best RB, and in fact, football player, by far. LT has had that kind of status for a couple of years now. If he keeps it up for several more, then I think that puts him in the same category as Brown.

It is the same thing with Babe Ruth. Forget steroids, forget relief pitching, forget the juiced up ball, forget traveling on planes vs trains, training, nutrition, integration and the million other things you have to consider when comparing someone from the 1920s to today. The bottom line is this. There are years when he hit more homeruns than any other team in baseball. End of discussion. Hank Aaron and Barry Bonds combined could not hold the Babe's jockstrap.

[Boozer76]

So, what you're telling me is that because you saw a **** load of tape of Jim Brown, that is good enough to debate me or anyone else that saw him play live?

WTF do we need scouts and combines for then? We should all just rely on tape. Damn, I wish my old man was alive so I could tell him I watched enough highlight reels of Joe DiMaggio to debate him on whether he was as good as Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays...damn Boozer, you sure got me...

[PFSIKH]

And doesn't LT have an edge having 300 lb+ linemen blocking for him? And look up LT's best year yardage wise...Brown has him by 50 or so yards with two less games...it's a debate that has no real answer. You're comparing different eras...but, if you're going on physical stature, Brown was 4 inches taller and weighed about 30 pounds more. Believe me, if it were the other way around, you'd be using that as an argument in your favor.

JFF -

You make some great points, but I think that is the heart of the matter.

IMHO it is Barry Sanders, but I digress. Like with the Bonds debate, different ERAs have their own inherent advantages. Brown was, for his time, large for his position and on par with linemen. Tomlinson has medical/technology advantages.

As you said, this can be an endless debate. Both are great players.

[drago]

emmit smith > jim brown > walter payton > LT

You have to be kidding. that's hilarious.

[NIGHT STALKER]

[NIGHT STALKER]

JFF -

You make some great points, but I think that is the heart of the matter.

IMHO it is Barry Sanders, but I digress. Like with the Bonds debate, different ERAs have their own inherent advantages. Brown was, for his time, large for his position and on par with linemen. Tomlinson has medical/technology advantages.

As you said, this can be an endless debate. Both are great players.

Hey bud, how's it going? Are you still in or are you out?