Postgame Overview: Jets vs. Patriots

[BP]

No but he blamed Chad for not scoring before the half (which wasnt his fault) and you got on me about it... for the warfish love fest...

Yes, I love Warfish. and miss him dearly.

[Maxman]

Guys (mods included) make your points without getting personal.

[ECURB]

Guys (mods included) make your points without getting personal.

I hope you didnt cheer when Chad went down...

[MasonJet]

Love Your Avatar Mason. Mars Volta is a great band. But if I'm going graphics, I like the OTHER cover to that album even better.

Yea, I know....Off Topic. But it had to be said.

Haha thanks. They certainly are and I can't wait for the new album to come out this year. Is that other cover the one with like the kelp in the water or something?

[BP]

So you're actually blaming this loss on Chad? Jeezus it never fails.

It's pretty tough to come from behind to win a game when your defense can't get anything even resembling QB pressure, your specials teams gives up a kick return TD, and the offensive line couldn't block a paraplegic. If Pennington had as much time as Brady I think the score might be a little different.

BP, you can't seriously be spinning this loss as another game Chad couldn't come from behind to win, can you?

I'm not blaming the entire loss on Pennington. but it does expose the fact that we can not come from behind to win a game against good teams. that is a fact.

And I'm still pissed off about today, so give me a break.

[PFSIKH]

That wasn't one of the top d's in the league. We just never had the ball enough to expose them.

Can you give me the saber-mathematics explaining your point?

Numbers suggest otherwise.

[ECURB]

I'm not blaming the entire loss on Pennington. but it does expose the fact that we can not come from behind to win a game against good teams. that is a fact.

And I'm still pissed off about today, so give me a break.

What was Chad supposed to do? He scored when given the chance... made good throws completed passes... scrambled when needed... came in hurt and scored...

He couldnt come from behind becuase the D was burying this team...

[Maxman]

I hope you didnt cheer when Chad went down...

I am not the kind of fan that Boo's a real lot. Getting anger out is what the internet is for.

But at the stadium I try to stay positive and just make some noise. When it looks bad I might just get quiet.

But I would never, ever root against a player on the Jets.

[Warfish]

Haha thanks. They certainly are and I can't wait for the new album to come out this year. Is that other cover the one with like the kelp in the water or something?

Yep, the "Portugeese Man-O-War Jellyfish-with-Human-Head" Picture. Trippy like the best of old Pink Flyd (which makes sense, given the Volta used Storm Thorgerson, the artist for all the greatest Floyd Art).

[Sperm Edwards]

Warfish - good analysis.

It was foolish to think that Thomas Jones was going to make the running game better. His power was overrated by Jets fans, he doesn't break tackles, and isn't that fast. But Jets fans are used to overrating RB's like that. He was a good RB who was in a good to very-good situation. Now, no Bears OL & no QB that can stretch the D, and people are seeing that a good OL makes Thomas Jones better, not the other way around.

We would have been better off concentrating on the OL than wasting time on a 29 year-old RB.

I generally like Mangini, but this 3-4 has to come to an end until such time as we get a 3-4 NT. That day may not come in the next couple of YEARS b/c there are so few of them.

Vilma isn't merely not able to play to his potential in the 3-4. He's outright awful. With 5 games of experience under his belt, Harris will already be a better LB'er for this defense. Either move back to the 4-3 or move Vilma to safety. Because he looks like a 6th-round nobody out there.

Barrett would have trouble covering a man in crutches.

Pennington was low on the list of things that weren't great today, but when you're getting the snot beat out of you, a team needs someone with some quick-strike ability. Until he starts to stretch the defense a little, Thomas Jones will continue to have games like this, b/c the OL blows. If he could roll out a little it would help, but that's not happening.

Nuge has got to bury those damn kicks.

The team could certainly be worse, but we're still several players (particularly on both lines) away from being a serious contender.

[madmike1]

Can you give me the saber-mathematics explaining your point?

Numbers suggest otherwise.

you'll see it when SD runs all over you next week.

[BP]

What was Chad supposed to do? He scored when given the chance... made good throws completed passes... scrambled when needed... came in hurt and scored...

He couldnt come from behind becuase the D was burying this team...

WHEN has your hero EVER won a game for the Jets with a deficit of 14 points?

[MasonJet]

I'm not blaming the entire loss on Pennington. but it does expose the fact that we can not come from behind to win a game against good teams. that is a fact.

And I'm still pissed off about today, so give me a break.

I agree that we can't come back in a game if our defensive and offensive line's might as well not even bother plying.

We're all pissed off. But blaming Chad for this game is silly.

[Warfish]

By the way, all this talk about Chad really is getting off the subject of today's game. Chad wasn't the issue, and if I didn;t make that clear enough for some of the Chad Obsessives, fine, here "Chad Wasn't the Reason We Lost".

Really, the discussion we SHOULD be having is the O and D Lines, and our abject failure in shoring these units up this offseason, when we knew they were some of our weakest units (D-Line especially).

[ECURB]

I am not the kind of fan that Boo's a real lot. Getting anger out is what the internet is for.

But at the stadium I try to stay positive and just make some noise. When it looks bad I might just get quiet.

But I would never, ever root against a player on the Jets.

Sadly many around you did... I feel bad for people with kids there... what kind of lesson is that...

[ECURB]

By the way, all this talk about Chad really is getting off the subject of today's game. Chad wasn't the issue, and if I didn;t make that clear enough for some of the Chad Obsessives, fine, here "Chad Wasn't the Reason We Lost".

Really, the discussion we SHOULD be having is the O and D Lines, and our abject failure in shoring these units up this offseason, when we knew they were some of our weakest units (D-Line especially).

lol

Its becuase you blamed not scoring before the half on him, and it was obviously not his fault... thats all.. you picked a reason that wasnt true... of course people will pick it apart...

[madmike1]

I'm friggin tired of this team getting dominated on both lines. That has to END.

[lawngnome o-line]

Isn't it easier to not do this whole Chad bickering.

Let me know which of these statements are false:

Their D-line outplayed our o-line

Their O-line outplayed our d-line

Their Special Teams Outplayed our Special Teams

Their Coach out coached ours.

The speciality positions (QB, WR, & RB) were all dependent on these previous statements. Whether it had to do with field position, momentum, schemes, or the ability to control the ball. Brady did well because he had time to throw from his o-line. His receivers and running backs did well due to the job in the trenches.

Let's not put the blame on one guy, one line, or one situation. This game, along with others that have been as bad as this, is not due to one single problem. It is a problem on many levels which need to be figured out from this point forward to have success this year.

Period.

[Warfish]

Sadly many around you did... I feel bad for people with kids there... what kind of lesson is that...

Oh, and I said it earlier today on JI but will repeat it here:

Cheering Chad's Injury is 100% unacceptable. Period.

Where one stands on their desire to see Chad as our #1 QB is irrelevant. Cheering an injury to one of your own players is utterly and absolutely 100% unacceptable.

Just for the record.

[ECURB]

Oh, and I said it earlier today on JI but will repeat it here:

Just for the record.

Good stuff, if I came off as a jerk twoards you that was not my intent... just syain before the half wasnt Chads fault... it was Dbricks fault.

[BP]

I agree that we can't come back in a game if our defensive and offensive line's might as well not even bother plying.

We're all pissed off. But blaming Chad for this game is silly.

Sorry for being silly.

I'm out.

[Warfish]

lol

Its becuase you blamed not scoring before the half on him, and it was obviously not his fault... thats all.. you picked a reason that wasnt true... of course people will pick it apart...

Whatever you say my friend. If you want, go ahead and link us a YouTube of all of Chad's greatest "Last Minute Before the Half Scoring Drives of 80+ Yards". I'm sure we'll all find it educational.

But again, you want to keep harping on a small comment in a large document, you go for it. You've ignored a thousand words (including quite a few positive ones) to get pissy about 20. And that is your right. Your point (That Chad wasn't the issue today) has been agreed upon and aquiested a number of times now.

Why not comment on the GREATER Issues here rather than Chad, eh? The O and D lines are what matters today, not Chad PEnnington (well, not his play....his Injury and it's effect on his immediate future IS legit conversation topic IMO).

Edited to remove confrontational verbaige. We're all angry today, but no reason to crush each other. We'll agree to disagree that we agree. About disagreeing. I think.....

[Warfish]

Good stuff, if I came off as a jerk twoards you that was not my intent... just syain before the half wasnt Chads fault... it was Dbricks fault.

I conceed the point that in this specific case, DBrick did not help our case in any form with his errors. Which was par for him today, as he player (along with his mates) very poorly.

[Lady Jet]

Really, the discussion we SHOULD be having is the O and D Lines, and our abject failure in shoring these units up this offseason, when we knew they were some of our weakest units (D-Line especially).

I couldn't agree more!

I am very concerned about not being able to stop the run. The O line should improve with time.

[PFSIKH]

you'll see it when SD runs all over you next week.

We will see. The Jets' O is a QB, HofF RB, great TE and OL short of being the Chargers offense. All they did last season was score 492 points. So...I would not be surprised if they had a great game, but alot of good Ds are made to look foolish by their offense.

[madmike1]

We will see. The Jets' O is a QB, HofF RB, great TE and OL short of being the Chargers offense. All they did last season was score 492 points. So...I would not be surprised if they had a great game, but alot of good Ds are made to look foolish by their offense.

You couldn't stop a one legged Pennington. Good luck with Rivers and LT.

[80gonyjets51]

Awesome analysis.

[PFSIKH]

You couldn't stop a one legged Pennington. Good luck with Rivers and LT.

Who only scored 14 points?

[madmike1]

Who only scored 14 points?

Because his D couldn't get him the ball. He had a 130 QB rating.

[PFSIKH]

Because his D couldn't get him the ball. He had a 130 QB rating.

And what did he accomplish? Nothing.

You can have all the pretty numbers you want, but that 130 rating might as well been a 10 rating.

[GimmeShelter]

It's kinda funny, on a day we get stomped I still wrote:

And yet you guys are taking that as if my topic was titled "Chad Pennington is the #1 Reason We Lost Today, Period".

In a word, get a grip please. Chad played well. Not "Brilliant" as you seem to think, just well, and well with absolutely zero support in the running game or O-line.

If THAT is not enough psoitivity in re: to this QB, well....sue me. I'm not going to lie and slobber the guy. He is a limited QB, who got hurt...again....but played his guts out, and did his best, whcih today (at least) was better than 95% of the rest of his team.

It is what it is. I thought I reflected that pretty accurately.

Actually you also found it neccessary to write:

But his limitations (Lack of mobillity, lack of arm) did haunt us again. Most of it was forgiveable and not game-changing, but the decision to sit on the ball with 1 minute left in the half is a move I, for one, and damn tired of seeing. And it's not because Mangini is conservative, it's cause Chad simply cannot go 80 yards in a game minute.

Listen I know your normal audience goes gaga over every word you utter but when you chose to include those statements you left yourself open for opinions that differ.

Deal with it.

[Warfish]

Actually you also found it neccessary to write:

But his limitations (Lack of mobillity, lack of arm) did haunt us again. Most of it was forgiveable and not game-changing, but the decision to sit on the ball with 1 minute left in the half is a move I, for one, and damn tired of seeing. And it's not because Mangini is conservative, it's cause Chad simply cannot go 80 yards in a game minute.

Yep, and I stand by that criticism. Chad is (as I see it) not particularly good at marching down a field with a minute left and 80+ yards to go. If you disagree, be a sport and tell us why.

Listen I know your normal audience goes gaga over every word you utter but when you chose to include those statements you left yourself open for opinions that differ.

Deal with it.

Hardly. I get ignored on JI more than just about anyone these days. This same thread there got 5 replies and was thrown from the front page in minutes, which is more normal than unusual now. I simply though some of my old friends here might be more receptive/appreciative, and some were.

If you don't like my opinions, no worries, I won't lose any sleep over it (although your hostility towards me I find odd, I don't recall having ever crossed you in some way to warrant such dripping anger and sarcasm).

But thats life, opinions (and postgame reviews) are like *******s, everyone has one. This was mine. If you like, write your own....I'd love to read it, really.

[madmike1]

And what did he accomplish? Nothing.

You can have all the pretty numbers you want, but that 130 rating might as well been a 10 rating.

Typical patsy bullcrap here. Move along.

[PFSIKH]

Typical patsy bullcrap here. Move along.

Why?

Opening drive: 7 plays zero points.

Followed by 2 - "3 and outs" zero points.

A TD drive.

A three and out with over a minute in the first half starting at your 30. Nugent is good right? Zero points.

A ten play drive that resulted in a punt. Zero points.

Another TD drive which made it 28-14.

What did I miss?

[JetCane]

Originally Posted by Warfish

Really, the discussion we SHOULD be having is the O and D Lines, and our abject failure in shoring these units up this offseason, when we knew they were some of our weakest units (D-Line especially).

I couldn't agree more!

I am very concerned about not being able to stop the run. The O line should improve with time.

Agreed here too. You cant get your asses kicked around in the trenches and expect to be able to exert your will on the outcome of the game. The line play was pathetically bad.

Where to start?

Shaun Ellis and D-Rob were invisible today. They did their best Kimo imitation it seemed. A lot of the Pats success on the ground came to either side of Ellis. Kenyon was credited with 10 tackles and a couple of assists, and he was the only one to at least show a little push on the pocket in the pass rush.

D-Rob is not a NT. The NT is the key piece in the 3-4, and this CS had made a committment to change the defense in spite of not having the proper personnel to do it. The CS is stubborn and at fault for not devising a better base scheme for their personnel, and failed to upgrade the KEY spot (NT) to accompany their committment to the 3-4.

Ellis is a better player than he showed today, but he was a complete non-factor in today's game.

On the offensive side of the ball, 4 of the 5 starters from last year return. This is the same line that couldnt open up holes last year in the rushing game, and no upgrades were made. In fact, it got worse, considering that Clark, who looked absolutely lost out there, is worse than Kendall. And bender? Who the f*** knows? They were blowing smoke up everyone's azz all week about Bender and then he is inactive on game day. Stupid gamemanship doesnt make up for not having the beef on the OL and DL.

Mangold got handled by Wilfork, and Clark helped no one on either side of him. Clement gave up at least one of the four total sacks. He and Moore could not open up holes to run through, and collapsed in their pocket protection a good part of the day.

Brick? dont even get me started. But many of us foresaw a scenario where the inept OL was going to get all the QBs maimed, and it's already started.

He aint no first round pick, gimme a break. OVERRATED.

It's not even a matter of having a lot of work to do, or working harder in practice. They are soft on the OL and DL, and dont have the strength to execute their assignments (except mangold, who will do better when he is not playing against Wilfork).