Question for Jets fans

[mgm79]

Ok, my question for you is this: many of you seem to think the Pats only won because they cheated and that every game the Pats have won has been called into question. What exactly did they do against the Jets that was illegal and allowed them to dominate the game?

[SouthernJet]

Ok, my question for you is this: many of you seem to think the Pats only won because they cheated and that every game the Pats have won has been called into question. What exactly did they do against the Jets that was illegal and allowed them to dominate the game?

deciphered def calls by 1st quarter taping, that allowed them to know def calls later,,scored points due to this that put jet offense behind and have to abandon run game and pass,,which in turn allowed pat D to tee off and power rush,,which gets chad hurt,,

[RSJ]

deciphered def calls by 1st quarter taping, that allowed them to know def calls later,,scored points due to this that put jet offense behind and have to abandon run game and pass,,which in turn allowed pat D to tee off and power rush,,which gets chad hurt,,

That pretty much says it all.

[lancemehl]

deciphered def calls by 1st quarter taping, that allowed them to know def calls later,,scored points due to this that put jet offense behind and have to abandon run game and pass,,which in turn allowed pat D to tee off and power rush,,which gets chad hurt,,

that's all

anymore questions

[mgm79]

deciphered def calls by 1st quarter taping, that allowed them to know def calls later,,scored points due to this that put jet offense behind and have to abandon run game and pass,,which in turn allowed pat D to tee off and power rush,,which gets chad hurt,,

But from what I understand about all this is deciphering signals isn't against the rules at all and seems to be common practice. The Patriots are in trouble for is the actual taping of it correct? And if the latest stories from the media are true the tape was confiscated before anyone got a chance to look at them?

[RSJ]

Right the tape was confiscated. But who knows if that camara wasn't playing remotly elsewhere or if the camaraman wasn't calling in signals.

[Ccssrs69]

But from what I understand about all this is deciphering signals isn't against the rules at all and seems to be common practice. The Patriots are in trouble for is the actual taping of it correct? And if the latest stories from the media are true the tape was confiscated before anyone got a chance to look at them?

I'm sure that everyone will agree with the point that deciphering hand signals is probably something that every team tries to do. But, on the other hand not every team is trying to video tape it.

It's nothing like having to change your playbook, because someone know when you are going to blitz, what type of cover your in.

We play the Pats twice a season, how many times has this already happened, but not caught. BB and the whole Pats Organization, should be held responsible.

[SouthernJet]

But from what I understand about all this is deciphering signals isn't against the rules at all and seems to be common practice. The Patriots are in trouble for is the actual taping of it correct? And if the latest stories from the media are true the tape was confiscated before anyone got a chance to look at them?

listen to yourself,,you should be ashamed..

tape = match up to play = faster deciphering,,especially if remote feed to booth..

hand signals visually being stolen,,hell of alot harder,,go for it,,might figure some stuff out in 4th qtr,,you have aguy in booth dedicated to feed matching up actual plays then you have some stolen signals close to end of 1st qtr..then even though tape taken,,you have some signals for rest of game

[MSGold12]

Ok, my question for you is this: many of you seem to think the Pats only won because they cheated and that every game the Pats have won has been called into question. What exactly did they do against the Jets that was illegal and allowed them to dominate the game?

So in your mind its OK to cheat? Its the DEGREE of cheating that is the issue???

And btw, most Jet fans do not take the extreme position you lay out. But thanks for proving the point I made in the other thread about you arrogant hyporitical Pats fans.

[mgm79]

I'm sure that everyone will agree with the point that deciphering hand signals is probably something that every team tries to do. But, on the other hand not every team is trying to video tape it.

It's nothing like having to change your playbook, because someone know when you are going to blitz, what type of cover your in.

We play the Pats twice a season, how many times has this already happened, but not caught. BB and the whole Pats Organization, should be held responsible.

I'm sure the Patriots tried to decipher signals every time they play you, just like the Jets do every time they play the Patriots and every other team. And I'm sure the Jets and the Patriots both change signals on a regular basis right?

If this has such an impact on the game, when you beat the Patriots last year did that have anything to due with the Jets deciphering hand signals or did you just play better then the Pats?

[RSJ]

I'm sure the Patriots tried to decipher signals every time they play you, just like the Jets do every time they play the Patriots and every other team. And I'm sure the Jets and the Patriots both change signals on a regular basis right?

If this has such an impact on the game, when you beat the Patriots last year did that have anything to due with the Jets deciphering hand signals or did you just play better then the Pats?

Is that question supposed to be a serious one?

[mgm79]

listen to yourself,,you should be ashamed..

tape = match up to play = faster deciphering,,especially if remote feed to booth..

hand signals visually being stolen,,hell of alot harder,,go for it,,might figure some stuff out in 4th qtr,,you have aguy in booth dedicated to feed matching up actual plays then you have some stolen signals close to end of 1st qtr..then even though tape taken,,you have some signals for rest of game

I'm attempting to have a civil converstation, why should I be ashamed?

How can you be certain of how long it takes to decipher signals? According to Mike Shanahan just by using binoculars they can decipher signals by half time, sometimes by the end of the first quarter.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/magazine/life_of_reilly/news/2002/01/09/life_of_reilly/

And if the camera is just sending a live feed into a booth, how much of an edge is that really when you can just sit there with a pair of high powered binocaulars and write down the signals or say what they are into a tape recoder? Or even better, you could use a telephoto lens and zoom in on the signal callers and take photos of them right? The end result is the same no matter what method you use.

[i remember shea]

I'm attempting to have a civil converstation, why should I be ashamed?

How can you be certain of how long it takes to decipher signals? According to Mike Shanahan just by using binoculars they can decipher signals by half time, sometimes by the end of the first quarter.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/magazine/life_of_reilly/news/2002/01/09/life_of_reilly/

And if the camera is just sending a live feed into a booth, how much of an edge is that really when you can just sit there with a pair of high powered binocaulars and write down the signals or say what they are into a tape recoder? Or even better, you could use a telephoto lens and zoom in on the signal callers and take photos of them right? The end result is the same no matter what method you use.

ok...here is a civil question for you.

why did the patriots do what they did?

enlighten me.

[RSJ]

I'm attempting to have a civil converstation, why should I be ashamed?

How can you be certain of how long it takes to decipher signals? According to Mike Shanahan just by using binoculars they can decipher signals by half time, sometimes by the end of the first quarter.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/magazine/life_of_reilly/news/2002/01/09/life_of_reilly/

And if the camera is just sending a live feed into a booth, how much of an edge is that really when you can just sit there with a pair of high powered binocaulars and write down the signals or say what they are into a tape recoder? Or even better, you could use a telephoto lens and zoom in on the signal callers and take photos of them right? The end result is the same no matter what method you use.

That is not what Shanny said. He said "It's no rumor, pal. "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game," says Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. "With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes, by the end of the first quarter."

Now the difference between binoculars and a tape recorder is that the signals can definitly be decifered right away and played back if there is any confussion. Also they can be used for future reference.

[SouthernJet]

That is not what Shanny said. He said "It's no rumor, pal. "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game," says Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. "With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes, by the end of the first quarter."

Now the difference between binoculars and a tape recorder is that the signals can definitly be decifered right away and played back if there is any confussion. Also they can be used for future reference.

dont waste your time on this guy,,he is suffering from Terminal Asteriskitis

[RSJ]

dont waste your time on this guy,,he is suffering from Terminal Asteriskitis

LOL!

POTW!

[MSGold12]

LOL!

POTW!

I now refer to them as the Taintriots.

[mgm79]

That is not what Shanny said. He said "It's no rumor, pal. "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game," says Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. "With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes, by the end of the first quarter."

Now the difference between binoculars and a tape recorder is that the signals can definitly be decifered right away and played back if there is any confussion. Also they can be used for future reference.

How does "With any luck" change what he is saying? Coach Shanahan says the Broncos can decipher signals by half time and the fact they can do it sometimes in the first quarter makes it sound like its not that difficult if you know what you're doing.

I can see how it would seem using a video camera would be useful, but if the signals are on a tape they can't be used in real time and would be deciphered during half time or even after the game, unlike someone w/ binoculars. Of course the camera could have been sending a live feed but I've really only heard about the tape at this point.

[SeniorFlaJet]

New Pats fan with a new spin.

The Commish sent a letter saying don't do it.

He did it. Case Closed.

[mgm79]

New Pats fan with a new spin.

The Commish sent a letter saying don't do it.

He did it. Case Closed.

I agree the Patriots shouldn't have used a camera as its against a league rule, and will be punished. My original question however, was how did that camera have such a massive effect on the game Sunday (especially since it was taken away) that the Patriots would have gone from winning convincingly to losing the game?

Many people seem convinced that the Patriots won by cheating yet can't explain how the camera gave such a big edge.

[Green DNA]

I agree the Patriots shouldn't have used a camera as its against a league rule, and will be punished. My original question however, was how did that camera have such a massive effect on the game Sunday (especially since it was taken away) that the Patriots would have gone from winning convincingly to losing the game?

Many people seem convinced that the Patriots won by cheating yet can't explain how the camera gave such a big edge.

Obviously the Patriots thought it would give them an edge otherwise they wouldn't have been doing it, even though they were warned not to. What needs to be explained here?

[BaumerJet]

deciphered def calls by 1st quarter taping, that allowed them to know def calls later,,scored points due to this that put jet offense behind and have to abandon run game and pass,,which in turn allowed pat D to tee off and power rush,,which gets chad hurt,,

YOU NAILED IT!

[Coles83]

The Patriots are basically pathetic because they are a very talented team and have to resort to this bs. And Belidick gets so great mention of how much of a master-mind he is when blatanlty he cheats. First game of the season why? I could understand him trying to pull this bs towards playoffs..Case closed..The guy is a disgrace

[BaumerJet]

How does "With any luck" change what he is saying? Coach Shanahan says the Broncos can decipher signals by half time and the fact they can do it sometimes in the first quarter makes it sound like its not that difficult if you know what you're doing.

I can see how it would seem using a video camera would be useful, but if the signals are on a tape they can't be used in real time and would be deciphered during half time or even after the game, unlike someone w/ binoculars. Of course the camera could have been sending a live feed but I've really only heard about the tape at this point.

A Tape was undoubtably sent via courier - one of the Patriots staff - to the booth after the end of the 1st Quarter.

Any additional changes would have been recorded prior to half time & would have also been given to their booth.

This could be broken down to single image photos that would allow the Patriots sideline staff to read the calls, both mid way through the 2nd, 3rd & 4th quarters.

Since the camera & photographer were both nabbed at the beginning of the 4th quarter, the Patriots staff would have been able to read about 80% of our signals & would have been able to adjust the line to prevent a blitz, set up a pass play to Moss when the defence was on a man/man coverage et al...

It's the fact that only the 3rd quarter is on that tape that has the Commisioner fumed over the entire tape & it is that recording that Belichick is disputing with the NFL...

It's like the wolf having grandma down his throat & with her hand still visible & mumble "NOT ME..."

Lets see you find an answer for this one...

[MSGold12]

A Tape was undoubtably sent via courier - one of the Patriots staff - to the booth after the end of the 1st Quarter.

Any additional changes would have been recorded prior to half time & would have also been given to their booth.

This could be broken down to single image photos that would allow the Patriots sideline staff to read the calls, both mid way through the 2nd, 3rd & 4th quarters.

Since the camera & photographer were both nabbed at the beginning of the 4th quarter, the Patriots staff would have been able to read about 80% of our signals & would have been able to adjust the line to prevent a blitz, set up a pass play to Moss when the defence was on a man/man coverage et al...

It's the fact that only the 3rd quarter is on that tape that has the Commisioner fumed over the entire tape & it is that recording that Belichick is disputing with the NFL...

It's like the wolf having grandma down his throat & with her hand still visible & mumble "NOT ME..."

Lets see you find an answer for this one...

That response should pretty well scare the Patsie apologist off...well done.

[mgm79]

A Tape was undoubtably sent via courier - one of the Patriots staff - to the booth after the end of the 1st Quarter.

Any additional changes would have been recorded prior to half time & would have also been given to their booth.

This could be broken down to single image photos that would allow the Patriots sideline staff to read the calls, both mid way through the 2nd, 3rd & 4th quarters.

Since the camera & photographer were both nabbed at the beginning of the 4th quarter, the Patriots staff would have been able to read about 80% of our signals & would have been able to adjust the line to prevent a blitz, set up a pass play to Moss when the defence was on a man/man coverage et al...

It's the fact that only the 3rd quarter is on that tape that has the Commisioner fumed over the entire tape & it is that recording that Belichick is disputing with the NFL...

It's like the wolf having grandma down his throat & with her hand still visible & mumble "NOT ME..."

Lets see you find an answer for this one...

Where have you seen there was a courier involved in this? All I've seen is that the camerman was nabbed while trying to go into the locker room just before half time.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2007/09/12/2007-09-12_eric_mangini_exposes_bill_belichicks_spy.html

So how could the 3rd quarter be on there? And lets say for the sake of it they did send signals from the first quarter to the booth, someone who is not in the booth would need to break down 15 minutes of tape and make the stills as no one in the booth can watch the tape(and teams have multiple guys calling signals to make it difficult to determine who the real signal caller is so they need to figure that out as well) and then match up those signals w/ each play. Sounds like they might be able to get the signals decoded by half time (thats if they even did it this way), which according to Coach Shanahan this can be done just as fast w/o cameras.

Anyways, I'd like to find out how you know whats going on between BB/Patriots and the league since nothing official has been said?

[SeniorFlaJet]

Where have you seen there was a courier involved in this? All I've seen is that the camerman was nabbed while trying to go into the locker room just before half time.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2007/09/12/2007-09-12_eric_mangini_exposes_bill_belichicks_spy.html

So how could the 3rd quarter be on there? And lets say for the sake of it they did send signals from the first quarter to the booth, someone who is not in the booth would need to break down 15 minutes of tape and make the stills as no one in the booth can watch the tape(and teams have multiple guys calling signals to make it difficult to determine who the real signal caller is so they need to figure that out as well) and then match up those signals w/ each play. Sounds like they might be able to get the signals decoded by half time (thats if they even did it this way), which according to Coach Shanahan this can be done just as fast w/o cameras.

Anyways, I'd like to find out how you know whats going on between BB/Patriots and the league since nothing official has been said?

Look Inspector Clouseau, you can questiion all you want on here till 12 midnight.

The fact is and I want you to read this carefully, it doesn't matter what you

think. The whole country believes your team cheated, that Brady and Bellicheck

will forever be thought of as cheaters and for the rest of your life as a Pats fan

everyone will laugh when you tell them you are one.

So consider going back to your hole and save yourselve a lot of time.

[bitonti]

ya know what these Patsie fans are in various states of denial anger and bargaining

i don't even want to mess with em

when I see one I tell them the following:

forget about the past

let's see how you do without the AV setup

it starts sunday against the league's most talented team.

good luck*

(*you filthy cheaters)

[raffyD]

I agree the Patriots shouldn't have used a camera as its against a league rule, and will be punished. My original question however, was how did that camera have such a massive effect on the game Sunday (especially since it was taken away) that the Patriots would have gone from winning convincingly to losing the game?

Many people seem convinced that the Patriots won by cheating yet can't explain how the camera gave such a big edge.

Ever see a flash drive for a digital camera? Remote feeds are really easy to set up today also.

I heard they had the video stored on a flash drive and Brady hid it up his a$s to take into halftime. BB took it out.

The rest, as they say, is history.

[SouthernJet]

pats suck

[crackbackblock]

Ever see a flash drive for a digital camera? Remote feeds are really easy to set up today also.

I heard they had the video stored on a flash drive and Brady hid it up his a$s to take into halftime. BB took it out and licked it clean.

The rest, as they say, is history.

Corrected that for you.

[PFSIKH]

deciphered def calls by 1st quarter taping, that allowed them to know def calls later,,scored points due to this that put jet offense behind and have to abandon run game and pass,,which in turn allowed pat D to tee off and power rush,,which gets chad hurt,,

How many?

If Mangenious knows the Patriots cheat, how many series did it take for the Patriots to figure out the false signals fro the real ones?

Face it. As Vilma said, it was clear the Patriots were the better team.

[serphnx]

How many?

If Mangenious knows the Patriots cheat, how many series did it take for the Patriots to figure out the false signals fro the real ones?

Face it. As Vilma said, it was clear the Patriots were the better team.

The trouble is you don't know. You can speculate, but that's why it's called gambling, you don't really know which team will win on a given Sunday. If the "better team" always won nobody would ever bet on an underdog (even with lines in play, since that's just a matter of degree). The Patriots definitely gained an advantage, it is foolhardy to say otherwise.

The reason why your position is untenable is because Jets fans aren't saying the Jets would have won for sure, they are just saying the Pats cheated and gained an advantage for that. Do you really dispute that?

[NIGHT STALKER]

How many?

If Mangenious knows the Patriots cheat, how many series did it take for the Patriots to figure out the false signals fro the real ones?

Face it. As Vilma said, it was clear the Patriots were the better team.

PF...you still don't get it. It doesn't make a difference if the Pats were a better team, it doesn't make a difference if they used it just once on Sunday...the fact they used it is against NFL policy...hence, they cheated.

Let me try to explain it this way. I can't remember if you have a combat MOS or not, but that's besides the point. What are they training the troops on now to qualify on the rifle range, an M-16? Say, you and I are on the rifle range and we are both using the same weapon...I may even be considered a better shot than you (your reference to Vilma saying the Patriots were the better team)...we are firing at the same targets...but, all of a sudden I attach a scope to my rifle. Do I now have an unfair advantage or not...even though I might have scored a better session without it, I decided to really put myself over the top and use a scope. Make sense to you PF? Both devices (camera and or audio in football and me using a scope) to improve your chances.

If you still don't understand the comparison I just explained to you, you're either too blinded by your love for the Pats or you just don't care.

The Pats cheated...period.

[JetCane]

pats suck