THANK YOU CHRIS BAKER FOR SAYING WHAT ALL FANS ARE SAYING

[K-Rhodes25]

After Sunday's crushing loss to the Eagles, Chris Baker dared to go where no player under Eric Mangini has gone. The veteran tight end openly questioned the play-calling at the end of the game - and he caught hell for it.

Saying his postgame comments "already got me in trouble," Baker was reluctant yesterday to discuss the matter. But he didn't back down.

"I said what I had to say," he said. "It's just something I was feeling."

Another player, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said of Baker's criticism, "You'd be correct to assume other guys feel the same way."

The Jets (1-5), mired in a three-game losing streak and a quarterback controversy, could use an intervention right about now. There's growing disenchantment in the locker room, with some players wondering about the methods of Mangini and his staff.

Understandably, their feelings are raw because of the losing, but Mangini's rigid rules and demanding work schedule (see last week's training camp-like practices) haven't helped the environment around Weeb Ewbank Hall.

"Everybody is frustrated," Baker said. "To be 1-5, with the talent we have, it shouldn't be. ... We returned a team that was 10-6 last year. We improved in some areas, obviously running back. You expect to take it to another level."

The awful start is particularly galling because, unlike most teams, the Jets haven't suffered any major injuries. Basically, they are underachieving, prompting some to look at the coaching. There's a feeling in the locker room that the game plans are too predictable, and that top playmakers aren't being utilized properly.

Some of the angst bubbled to the surface after the 16-9 loss, when Baker, referring to the third-down quarterback sneak and fourth-down incompletion on the final drive, said: "(Thomas Jones) has been running the ball all over the place and he doesn't get it. ... It's unfortunate. Nothing surprises me anymore."

Jones rushed for a season-high 130 yards, but didn't touch the ball on the last two plays, as a potential game-tying drive stalled at the Eagles' 4. Publicly, Mangini didn't scold Baker, but he made sure his tight end was rebuked behind the scenes.

"After the game is an emotional time and people are going to have emotional reactions," Mangini said. "The one thing I feel very good about is where my office is located. Any of those players are more than welcome to come in and talk to me. ... I'd love to hear from them personally."

No players have stopped by for a chit-chat, according to Mangini.

His crisis-management skills are being tested, especially with a quarterback controversy threatening to fuel the unrest. Mangini is sticking with the beleaguered Chad Pennington, perhaps because he doesn't want his players to think he's throwing Pennington under the bus.

Wide receiver Jerricho Cotchery said the team appreciates Mangini's patience with the slumping Pennington.

"Players want to see that," Cotchery said. "They want to see the coach stick behind a guy. We will feed off that."

Mangini overcame mild locker-room unrest early last season, when the Jets began 2-3. He won over the players with his smarts and game preparation. But they still don't like his rules. For instance, Baker was fined $1,500 for showing up four minutes late to the team hotel in the preseason.

Asked if he's concerned about losing the locker room, Mangini said, "It's a locker room of high character. It's why we draft character."

Things could get real ugly if they don't beat the dysfunctional Bengals (1-4), who own the league's lowest-ranked scoring defense.

Publicly, Mangini painted a positive picture of the team's plight, listing areas in which they've improved. Behind the scenes, he dropped the hammer, creating tension around the team.

"After going through the team meeting with Coach, it's one of those things you sense," wide receiver Laveranues Coles said. "You never have a true feeling of how bad things are until you see the look in your head coach's eyes."

[JetCane]

Mangini said. "The one thing I feel very good about is where my office is located. Any of those players are more than welcome to come in and talk to me. ... I'd love to hear from them personally."

No players have stopped by for a chit-chat, according to Mangini.

I guess he's just hearing crickets in there.

[BP]

I guess he's just hearing crickets in there.

Look at what happened to Kendall, that's why nobody is going in there for a chit chat.

[drago]

"After going through the team meeting with Coach, it's one of those things you sense," wide receiver Laveranues Coles said. "You never have a true feeling of how bad things are until you see the look in your head coach's eyes."

I love Coles' quotes. Tells it like it is, takes blame when the team loses dishes out compliments when he could just as easily compliment himself. It's going to be a sad day when he retires.

[Lil Bit Special]

After Sunday's crushing loss to the Eagles, Chris Baker dared to go where no player under Eric Mangini has gone. The veteran tight end openly questioned the play-calling at the end of the game - and he caught hell for it.

He should have caught hell for it. What good does it do for a player to question his coaching staff in the media??? What does it solve? Sure the playcalling sucked but there is no need for it to be in the papers.

Another player, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said of Baker's criticism, "You'd be correct to assume other guys feel the same way."

Yet another anonymous player. Wonder if he's real or just made up for the story.

There's growing disenchantment in the locker room, with some players wondering about the methods of Mangini and his staff.

Which happens on every team when they suck. Blame everyone else instead of looking in the mirror and correcting what you are doing wrong.

Understandably, their feelings are raw because of the losing, but Mangini's rigid rules and demanding work schedule (see last week's training camp-like practices) haven't helped the environment around Weeb Ewbank Hall.

I hate it too when I work hard and my company still sucks and underperforms. But I still need to go out there everyday and do my job and let those in charge determine who should lead us.

"Everybody is frustrated," Baker said. "To be 1-5, with the talent we have, it shouldn't be. ... We returned a team that was 10-6 last year. We improved in some areas, obviously running back. You expect to take it to another level."

I hope this means they still give a sh!t.

There's a feeling in the locker room that the game plans are too predictable, and that top playmakers aren't being utilized properly.

If anyone would know if gameplans are predictable, its players who are still around from the Herm era.

Some of the angst bubbled to the surface after the 16-9 loss, when Baker, referring to the third-down quarterback sneak and fourth-down incompletion on the final drive, said: "(Thomas Jones) has been running the ball all over the place and he doesn't get it. ... It's unfortunate. Nothing surprises me anymore."

And if Baker thinks the game came down to a sneak on 3rd down then he's an idiot. There are too many plays in a football game that determine the outcome. And I guess Baker didnt realize Jones only ran for 34 yards in the 2nd half and Jones just got stuffed on 2nd and 1. He had just ran the ball 2 times in a row. Predictable would be hand off to Jones again.

For me its simple. Work hard. Play the right way and things will work out in your favor. Bitching to the media doesnt fix anything for the team. It just give a guy a story. You were used Mr. Baker by the media for their benefit and your detriment.

[JetCane]

Look at what happened to Kendall, that's why nobody is going in there for a chit chat.

It's so clear that he isnt player friendly, so why would any normal guy (who isnt looking for brown-nosing points) go in there to "chit chat".

A couple of us (me and I know #27Dom too) tried to explain in our posts last summer how damaging the handling of the Kendall matter would be. But most just wanted to trash Kendall, without considering the fallout. Well, there's been a lot of fallout, and it's coming down on tangini's head.

[jetophile]

It's so clear that he isnt player friendly, so why would any normal guy (who isnt looking for brown-nosing points) go in there to "chit chat".

A couple of us (me and I know #27Dom too) tried to explain in our posts last summer how damaging the handling of the Kendall matter would be. But most just wanted to trash Kendall, without considering the fallout. Well, there's been a lot of fallout, and it's coming down on tangini's head.

Say what you will, but I can't stand when people grumble out loud. All I kept thinking every time Pete Kendall opened his mouth was, "Where's the duct tape?"

[BP]

It's so clear that he isnt player friendly, so why would any normal guy (who isnt looking for brown-nosing points) go in there to "chit chat".

A couple of us (me and I know #27Dom too) tried to explain in our posts last summer how damaging the handling of the Kendall matter would be. But most just wanted to trash Kendall, without considering the fallout. Well, there's been a lot of fallout, and it's coming down on tangini's head.

I like a coach that isn't player friendly, to be honest with you.

The way he treated Kendall during TC was just so wrong of an example to set for the rest of the team though. Kendall deserved to be trashed by the fans, but Mangini could have handled this better without alienating the team.

[Matt39]

Mangini's way of handling Kendall was probably the most embarassing thing I've ever seen with the Jets. Including Herm and Kotite.

[gangreenman]

Mangini's way of handling Kendall was probably the most embarassing thing I've ever seen with the Jets. Including Herm and Kotite.

No Way.

PK was 34 years old and was avg at best last season and below avg the season before. Sure, he was a veteran on the team but he had no right to act the way he did...

[JetCane]

I like a coach that isn't player friendly, to be honest with you.

The way he treated Kendall during TC was just so wrong of an example to set for the rest of the team though. Kendall deserved to be trashed by the fans, but Mangini could have handled this better without alienating the team.

As with most things, there is a happy medium. He doesnt have to be a "players coach" to be a little amicable with them. I can count on one finger the number of times he spoke with players during tc. That was when he befriended Coles during the stretching one morning.

Parcells wasnt too friendly to the players either, but at least he would speak to them while they were practicing on the field. mangini tries to give off this authoritarian aura, so it's no wonder no one has come into his office to speak with him.

[JetCane]

Say what you will, but I can't stand when people grumble out loud. All I kept thinking every time Pete Kendall opened his mouth was, "Where's the duct tape?"

But the point is, Kendall is GONE, but the fallout from the mishandling of his situation has left a stench here.

[NIGHT STALKER]

The problem is, every team and their mother knows our game plan...it's the same week in and week out. Can't blame players for being frustrated...who wouldn't? Maybe if going to the press and expressing your feelings lights a fire under these coaches, who knows...it ain't working keeping your yap shut.

Open it up on offense and defense...take some chances. What's the worst that can happen...lose? Nothing new there.

[gangreenman]

As with most things, there is a happy medium. He doesnt have to be a "players coach" to be a little amicable with them. I can count on one finger the number of times he spoke with players during tc. That was when he befriended Coles during the stretching one morning.

Parcells wasnt too friendly to the players either, but at least he would speak to them while they were practicing on the field. mangini tries to give off this authoritarian aura, so it's no wonder no one has come into his office to speak with him.

Mangini is amiable...

I disagree with what you're saying.

He does those thrs. night captains meetings

Ive seen him talking to players a lot during games.

Last year his team loved his 'Saturday Night movies'

Is he Dungy or Edwards? No. But he isnt exactly Bellicheck or Parcells either.

He's somewhere inbetween.

[Jetaholic]

Mangini's way of handling Kendall was probably the most embarassing thing I've ever seen with the Jets. Including Herm and Kotite.

I agree. I have no issues with PK speaking out when he was basically screwed over by the organization (and mainly Mangini) after he has helped the club on several occasions.

As the old saying goes, you scratch my back and I will scratch yours. Kendall did his part but Mangini renegged on his end of the deal.

As for Baker, I think he has nothing to lose and everything to gain by speaking out. Remember folks, this is a business. Baker is looking out for himself just as much as the Jets are. He has been totally underused all season and it looks like that won't change for the remainder of the season or for his career under Mangini. So he might as well speak out. The worst that could happen is that he would be cut at the end of the season and he would most likely be picked up by another club next year.

In business, all that matters is what have you done for me today...and the NFL is a business just like any other business.

[gangreenman]

I agree. I have no issues with PK speaking out when he was basically screwed over by the organization (and mainly Mangini) after he has helped the club on several occasions.

As the old saying goes, you scratch my back and I will scratch yours. Kendall did his part but Mangini renegged on his end of the deal.

As for Baker, I think he has nothing to lose and everything to gain by speaking out. Remember folks, this is a business. Baker is looking out for himself just as much as the Jets are. He has been totally underused all season and it looks like that won't change for the remainder of the season or for his career under Mangini. So he might as well speak out. The worst that could happen is that he would be cut at the end of the season and he would most likely be picked up by another club next year.

In business, all that matters is what have you done for me today...and the NFL is a business just like any other business.

Oh please...

PK was 34 and was avg at best in 06.

He signed a contract a year before and then asked for an extra million after an avg year.

When the team said no, its not in their best interest, he went b1tching and moaning to the whole world and demanded to be released or traded.

He had no right doing what he did.

[JetCane]

Mangini is amiable...

I disagree with what you're saying.

He does those thrs. night captains meetings

Ive seen him talking to players a lot during games.

Last year his team loved his 'Saturday Night movies'

Is he Dungy or Edwards? No. But he isnt exactly Bellicheck or Parcells either.

He's somewhere inbetween.

He obviously doesnt have a great rapport with the players after the kendall thing, among other things. Otherwise, you might think a player or two would have come into his office with his open door policy. hasnt happened for a reason.

[gangreenman]

He obviously doesnt have a great rapport with the players after the kendall thing, among other things. Otherwise, you might think a player or two would have come into his office with his open door policy. hasnt happened for a reason.

Show me a 1-5 coach that does have 'great rapport' with his players and Ill show you a fvcked up organization.

[JetCane]

Show me a 1-5 coach that does have 'great rapport' with his players and Ill show you a fvcked up organization.

That's a strawman argument.

If he had a good rapport with his players, they wouldnt use the excuse of a bad record to not stop into his office to talk with him.

[gangreenman]

That's a strawman argument.

If he had a good rapport with his players, they wouldnt use the excuse of a bad record to not stop into his office to talk with him.

Who has used that as an excuse?

I think if Mangini had a good rapport with his players in the midst of a 1-5 season, Id be very, very concerned about the future of the organization.

[Jetaholic]

Oh please...

PK was 34 and was avg at best in 06.

He signed a contract a year before and then asked for an extra million after an avg year.

When the team said no, its not in their best interest, he went b1tching and moaning to the whole world and demanded to be released or traded.

He had no right doing what he did.

I guess average enough for Joe Gibbs to pick him up and give him the $$ he deserved. By the way, is he starting for the Skins? what's their record again? How many times have their QB been sacked/hurried.

34 is not old for OL. Not sure if you are old enough to remember the skin's team back in the late 80's/early 90's. Their OL, THE HOGS, were averaging around 34/35 years old.

PK signed that deal last year as part of a deal with the JETS to save them cap space.

[Irish Jet]

Anyone whos watched the Skins often enough this season can see that Kendall is way above an average LG. Miles ahead of any on our team (then again I could make that case for myself:roll:).

We should have paid him, he would have made a big difference IMO. The only way I'll forgive Tangini for this is if they sign Faneca in the offseason. He is IMO the elite LG in the league, yes, including Steve Hutchinson.

[BP]

As with most things, there is a happy medium. He doesnt have to be a "players coach" to be a little amicable with them. I can count on one finger the number of times he spoke with players during tc. That was when he befriended Coles during the stretching one morning.

Parcells wasnt too friendly to the players either, but at least he would speak to them while they were practicing on the field. mangini tries to give off this authoritarian aura, so it's no wonder no one has come into his office to speak with him.

Parcells had a great sense of humor and sharp wit about him that would take the edge off. Mangini has none of those characteristics. I agree, you have to have a happy medium.

I remember hearing Lawrence Taylor and Phil Simms saying how much they hated Parcells when he was with the Giants, but thanked him for making them better players afterwards. he used to tell LT that he should have drafted Hugh Green instead of him..haha!

[gangreenman]

I guess average enough for Joe Gibbs to pick him up and give him the $$ he deserved. By the way, is he starting for the Skins? what's their record again? How many times have their QB been sacked/hurried.

34 is not old for OL. Not sure if you are old enough to remember the skin's team back in the late 80's/early 90's. Their OL, THE HOGS, were averaging around 34/35 years old.

PK signed that deal last year as part of a deal with the JETS to save them cap space.

I know he's starting for the Skins and I know their record is better then ours, but if you honestly think Kendall is the only reason for that you may need some help.

34 is not necessarily too old if the players good, but Kendall is maybe average, undersized, and isnt really the guy you want to build an OL around.

Yes, he signed the deal to give them cap space, but the point is HE SIGNED THE DEAL. So after one average year he has the right to take away the cap space he gave them?

What kind of logic is that??

[gangreenman]

Anyone whos watched the Skins often enough this season can see that Kendall is way above an average LG. Miles ahead of any on our team (then again I could make that case for myself:roll:).

We should have paid him, he would have made a big difference IMO. The only way I'll forgive Tangini for this is if they sign Faneca in the offseason. He is IMO the elite LG in the league, yes, including Steve Hutchinson.

Anyone who watched the Jets last two seasons would see the Kendall was average.

He was sh1tty blocking on running plays and he was above avg at pass blocking...

[JetCane]

So after one average year he has the right to take away the cap space he gave them?

What kind of logic is that??

Arent the Jets $10M under the cap? He was only asking for $1M.

And after saying they dont do that, didnt they do it for Moore?

[gangreenman]

Arent the Jets $10M under the cap? He was only asking for $1M.

And after saying they dont do that, didnt they do it for Moore?

Moore is younger, just as good, and didnt go crying to the media about it.

Kendall handled that whole situation terribly.

If I were him I wouldve went to TC and told the media that "Im just coming in, working hard, doing my job to prove to this organization that I am worth the investment". I have a feeling that wouldve been a much better approach then saying "this organization sucks, I want out."

[gangreenman]

Parcells had a great sense of humor and sharp wit about him that would take the edge off. Mangini has none of those characteristics. I agree, you have to have a happy medium.

I remember hearing Lawrence Taylor and Phil Simms saying how much they hated Parcells when he was with the Giants, but thanked him for making them better players afterwards. he used to tell LT that he should have drafted Hugh Green instead of him..haha!

I disagree...

The saturday night movies last year, his penguin impersonations, his captains meetings with food, some subtle humor during Press Conferences...

As I said above, no he's not Dungy or Edwards, but hes not Bellicheck or Groh either.

[JetCane]

Moore is younger, just as good, and didnt go crying to the media about it.

Kendall handled that whole situation terribly.

If I were him I wouldve went to TC and told the media that "Im just coming in, working hard, doing my job to prove to this organization that I am worth the investment". I have a feeling that wouldve been a much better approach then saying "this organization sucks, I want out."

You're still missing the point, my friend.

Kendall is gone, but the way he was treated by the CS during TC has left a bad stench, and the players dont forget stuff like that. Especially when the player who the CS tries to humiliate by putting him in the rookie dorm and making him play third string center late in the pre-season games is the union player rep.

[gangreenman]

You're still missing the point, my friend.

Kendall is gone, but the way he was treated by the CS during TC has left a bad stench, and the players dont forget stuff like that. Especially when the player who the CS tries to humiliate by putting him in the rookie dorm and making him play third string center late in the pre-season games is the union player rep.

I agree, the rookie dorm was low... And I dont buy that whole mistake thing.

If there's any player on the team that you CAN NOT make that kind of a mistake with, its the disgruntled one, or Kendall.

The CS and management shouldve double and triple checked all of their plans for PK before he arrived at TC.

But other then that, I feel the organization didnt feel he was worth the extra $1million...

[Blackout]

Mangini's way of handling Kendall was probably the most embarassing thing I've ever seen with the Jets. Including Herm and Kotite.

pfft

yeah 1-15 is nothing compared to letting go of an old Olinemen.

theres a reason KEndall was cut from Arizona.

[Jetaholic]

I know he's starting for the Skins and I know their record is better then ours, but if you honestly think Kendall is the only reason for that you may need some help.

Not saying that at all. The JETS have lots of problems on both sides of the field. What I am saying is that his presence in the OL lineup would have provided more protection for the CP or KC. How the whole situation was handled was totally inappropriate and I am sure that left a poor impression on the players. Why would they go out there and give a 110% when all they know their coach don't give a rat's a*s about them (based on what happened with Kendall)?

34 is not necessarily too old if the players good, but Kendall is maybe average, undersized, and isnt really the guy you want to build an OL around.

Nobody is building an OL around Kenall, but his presence brings stability and lots of experience that others on the OL (especially the rooks) can benefit from.

Yes, he signed the deal to give them cap space, but the point is HE SIGNED THE DEAL. So after one average year he has the right to take away the cap space he gave them?

Part of that deal was a handshake deal that basically allowed the JETS to get some cap relief and in return he would get a new deal the following year that would bring his over-all yearly earnings to that of what it was prior to him signing the cap-friendly one. I believe this was explained if lots of details in a post a while back.

What kind of logic is that??

I think at this point mangini has to circle the wagon and do whatever is neccessary to NOT lose the players. Based on what I just read about Baker not practicing and not making the team, I'm not sure we are heading in the right direction.

Herm was a terrible coach...that's for sure. But I tell you what, the team could use one of his preaches right about now. Never thought I would be saying this...

[serphnx]

Anyone who watched the Jets last two seasons would see the Kendall was average.

He was sh1tty blocking on running plays and he was above avg at pass blocking...

You know I used to think that too, but now I get the distinct impression that perhaps I have been overvaluing Brick and Mangold's contributions, and perhaps Kendall covered up for them.

[gangreenman]

You know I used to think that too, but now I get the distinct impression that perhaps I have been overvaluing Brick and Mangold's contributions, and perhaps Kendall covered up for them.

DBrick and Mangold have been more then fine this year, so I dont know what you mean by that.

[Pragmatic Bus]

baker needs to shut up and play. i love the guy but u dont go public with your dirty laundry