The "real" reason why Clemens has replaced Pennington...

[Irish Jet]

spot on jetcane. I couldn't even watch the jets in penny's last start. I just couldn't. clemens made the last game enjoyable for me to sit & watch.

2 tough tests comin up, but I think we're close to turning this thing around. I think clemens makes this team better, simply by giving us more options on offense and it'll carry over to the defense

I also think Clemens can make this team better, unfortunately we're still gonna be 1-10 in 2 weeks.

[NIGHT STALKER]

spot on jetcane. I couldn't even watch the jets in penny's last start. I just couldn't. clemens made the last game enjoyable for me to sit & watch.

2 tough tests comin up, but I think we're close to turning this thing around. I think clemens makes this team better, simply by giving us more options on offense and it'll carry over to the defense

JW, sometimes a change at QB can give a team a real kick in the ass...but, to be honest here, I don't see much change happening with our D...we've made too many so-so RB's look like the second coming of Jim Brown this year.

[Irish Jet]

JW, sometimes a change at QB can give a team a real kick in the ass...but, to be honest here, I don't see much change happening with our D...we've made too many so-so RB's look like the second coming of Jim Brown this year.

Yeah, Our D will suck no matter what.

I still can believe we agve up 130 yards and 3 TD's to Kenny frickin Watson!!!

[joewilly]

I disagree with both you guys. Our D has played like crap but the players just aren't as bad as their performance has shown.

I think a good spark can turn the WHOLE team around. we've seen it before & we'll see it again. Clemens ain't no savior but he's proven to have enough needed qualities to make our offense more difficult to gameplan against. This will help Jones immensely.

All our defense needs is 1 good game to start gelling & get the job done.

It won't surprise me at all if we go 1-1 in the next 2 weeks.

[Irish Jet]

I disagree with both you guys. Our D has played like crap but the players just aren't as bad as their performance has shown.

I think a good spark can turn the WHOLE team around. we've seen it before & we'll see it again. Clemens ain't no savior but he's proven to have enough needed qualities to make our offense more difficult to gameplan against. This will help Jones immensely.

All our defense needs is 1 good game to start gelling & get the job done.

It won't surprise me at all if we go 1-1 in the next 2 weeks.

No our defence can never be a good/great 3-4 D because we are just far too small. D-Rob cant cut it in this D, he just has to go. The NT is the most important position in a 3-4 and if we continue to play an undersized player we will continue to get pushed around and give up big running plays. I'd be willing to bet all the money in the world that we do not win eiither of our next 2 games. Pittsburgh and Dallas will probably put up a combined 70 points on that D.

[SoFlaJets]

No our defence can never be a good/great 3-4 D because we are just far too small. D-Rob cant cut it in this D, he just has to go. The NT is the most important position in a 3-4 and if we continue to play an undersized player we will continue to get pushed around and give up big running plays. I'd be willing to bet all the money in the world that we do not win eiither of our next 2 games. Pittsburgh and Dallas will probably put up a combined 70 points on that D.

good stuff from our Irish friend here-you know reading all these threads this morning one old football expression keeps running through my mind-I swear for every one and it's this;

THE GAME IS WON AND LOST IN THE TRENCHES

we just aren't set up for trench warfare NFL-style....look at NE and their big old bunch of surly fat white guys on the OL and their best in the league DL-even with injuriues...we are nowhere near that caliber and until we are....well, you know....

[Irish Jet]

good stuff from our Irish friend here-you know reading all these threads this morning one old football expression keeps running through my mind-I swear for every one and it's this;

THE GAME IS WON AND LOST IN THE TRENCHES

we just aren't set up for trench warfare NFL-style....look at NE and their big old bunch of surly fat white guys on the OL and their best in the league DL-even with injuriues...we are nowhere near that caliber and until we are....well, you know....

Our OL isnt the worst, they're just not physical.

But up front on D we are awful. I would just love to be an offensive Co-ordinator going up against that D, it would just be too easy. We're too small, simple as that. Look at the Pats and the Steelers, they are absolutely massive up front and that's why their 3-4 D's are executed so well.

[SoFlaJets]

Our OL isnt the worst, they're just not physical.

But up front on D we are awful. I would just love to be an offensive Co-ordinator going up against that D, it would just be too easy. We're too small, simple as that. Look at the Pats and the Steelers, they are absolutely massive up front and that's why their 3-4 D's are executed so well.

they're not big enough IJ-I can't tell you how many times my wife has commented watching our opponents offensive and defensive lines "how come WE don't have any fat guys like that?" and you know what she's right-week after week we get blown off both sides of the ball-the game IS won and lost in the trenches and we aren't getting that most basic and oldest thing done

[Irish Jet]

they're not big enough IJ-I can't tell you how many times my wife has commented watching our opponents offensive and defensive lines "how come WE don't have any fat guys like that?" and you know what she's right-week after week we get blown off both sides of the ball-the game IS won and lost in the trenches and we aren't getting that most basic and oldest thing done

On the offensive line, you can get away with not being big as long as you have a good scheme with player who fit it. (we do not).

On defence though its just not possible to be successful in the 3-4 if you as undersized as we are. Especially at NT.

[KSJets]

That's not necessarily true. You can get away with a smaller DL if they're very fast and athletic and can shoot the gaps to disrupt the play in the backfield. Unfortunately, we don't have that either so we're kinda ****ed no matter what.

It's amazing that for having a smaller DL, and smallish LB's that we don't really even seem to play fast. Our players are always trailing someone else, and often by a lot.

You can either play big or play fast on defense. We do neither.

[Irish Jet]

That's not necessarily true. You can get away with a smaller DL if they're very fast and athletic and can shoot the gaps to disrupt the play in the backfield. Unfortunately, we don't have that either so we're kinda ****ed no matter what.

It's amazing that for having a smaller DL, and smallish LB's that we don't really even seem to play fast. Our players are always trailing someone else, and often by a lot.

You can either play big or play fast on defense. We do neither.

In a 4-3 yes.

How many great 3-4 D's do you know which are built around speed????

[JetCane]

spot on jetcane. I couldn't even watch the jets in penny's last start. I just couldn't. clemens made the last game enjoyable for me to sit & watch.

2 tough tests comin up, but I think we're close to turning this thing around. I think clemens makes this team better, simply by giving us more options on offense and it'll carry over to the defense

He is going to be fun to watch, jw, but until the Jets get serious about their OL, he's going to continue having to play scramble ball and will take too many hard hits.

I'm not sure his play will really affect the defense until they get bigger and better on the DL.

[serphnx]

In a 4-3 yes.

How many great 3-4 D's do you know which are built around speed????

Well the Chargers for one. Good Ds are really fast whatever the scheme is. Especially the secondary. 4-3, 3-4. 2-5 it doesn't matter your secondary is supposed to be quick. In the 3-4 you expect the OLB to be fast and explosive.

I think people on this board sometimes misunderstand the 3-4 designation. There isn't only one way to play the 3-4, you can actually play the gaps differently depending on your philosophy. I actually think Mangini is trying to install more of a one gap rather than the I guess better known two gap 3-4 philosophy, but then again maybe everyone just sucks and they just get blown off and fail completely to really do anything. I am actually leaning towards the latter.

[KSJets]

Well the Chargers for one. Good Ds are really fast whatever the scheme is. Especially the secondary. 4-3, 3-4. 2-5 it doesn't matter your secondary is supposed to be quick. In the 3-4 you expect the OLB to be fast and explosive.

I think people on this board sometimes misunderstand the 3-4 designation. There isn't only one way to play the 3-4, you can actually play the gaps differently depending on your philosophy. I actually think Mangini is trying to install more of a one gap rather than the I guess better known two gap 3-4 philosophy, but then again maybe everyone just sucks and they just get blown off and fail completely to really do anything. I am actually leaning towards the latter.

I agree, our DL and LB's are too small to take on the OL head-on, but too slow to shoot the gaps and penetrate to disrupt the play.

[SoFlaJets]

I agree, our DL and LB's are too small to take on the OL head-on, but too slow to shoot the gaps and penetrate to disrupt the play.

I'm tellin' you KS as far as I'm concerned from what I've seen this season it's Rhodes, Revis, Harris, and K.Coleman, the rest can go

[shawn306]

When Wade Phillips was the DC for the Chargers in 2004 he switched them from a 4-3 that couldn't stop anybody to a 3-4 that stopped everybody.

Now whether he was adapting to the talent he had there at the time or not I don't know, but he is doing a heck of a job with Dallas and their 3-4.

Good coaches will build their offense and defense around the talent they have.

One other point about Robertson being too small to play the 3-4

Jets : Robertson 6'1 3`317 pounds

Dallas: Remi Ayodele 6'2'' 300 pounds

Tank Johnson 6'3 300 pounds

Jason Ferguson 6'3" 317 pounds (On IR)

[drago]

When Wade Phillips was the DC for the Chargers in 2004 he switched them from a 4-3 that couldn't stop anybody to a 3-4 that stopped everybody.

Now whether he was adapting to the talent he had there at the time or not I don't know, but he is doing a heck of a job with Dallas and their 3-4.

Good coaches will build their offense and defense around the talent they have.

One other point about Robertson being too small to play the 3-4

Jets : Robertson 6'1 3`317 pounds

Dallas: Remi Ayodele 6'2'' 300 pounds

Tank Johnson 6'3 300 pounds

Jason Ferguson 6'3" 317 pounds (On IR)

good post. The thing with robertson is he could be effective if he had another run stuffer where ellis is playing. Say we play Pouah at LDE, and robertson still at NT, we'd have two big guys that would be tough to move. It's not like we are getting any pressure from ellis anyway, we may as well load up agains the run.

It bothers me that mangini isn't doing anything different to fix an obvious flaw on defense.

[JohnnyLV]

When Wade Phillips was the DC for the Chargers in 2004 he switched them from a 4-3 that couldn't stop anybody to a 3-4 that stopped everybody.

Now whether he was adapting to the talent he had there at the time or not I don't know, but he is doing a heck of a job with Dallas and their 3-4.

Good coaches will build their offense and defense around the talent they have.

One other point about Robertson being too small to play the 3-4

Jets : Robertson 6'1 3`317 pounds

Dallas: Remi Ayodele 6'2'' 300 pounds

Tank Johnson 6'3 300 pounds

Jason Ferguson 6'3" 317 pounds (On IR)

Keep in mind, though, that Dallas and San Diego really do not play a true 3-4 defense. hey play more of a disguised 4-3 that gives the defense more speed. It is not the same as a Bellichek 3-4.

[Barton]

Because Bob is never right. Thats why.

(for those of you who do not know, according to bob, clemens sucks and pennington should still be the starting QB)

[Damaged89]

Keep in mind, though, that Dallas and San Diego really do not play a true 3-4 defense. hey play more of a disguised 4-3 that gives the defense more speed. It is not the same as a Bellichek 3-4.

Dallas and SD play a one gap 3-4. It's different than the traditional two gap 3-4 but its still a 3-4.

[Steelbirds]

.... but Pennington even when getting protection was still making stupid, bonehead mistakes late in the game.

The run blocking is much worse than the pass blocking, and I refuse to say we're on of the worst teams via pass blocking in the NFL. Pete Kendall isn't Steve Hutchinson or Alan Faneca.

What team are you watching!? I heard Pennington has the second best pass completion percentage of all time. In years' past, his QB rating has been very high. He throws a few INTs this season and suddenly "he has always sucked"! Chad should receive the same number of seconds (from his OL) to do his check down that an average NFL QB receives. He doesn't. If KC doesn't think and react quicker than Chad, he's toast.

The OL sucks. To say the run blocking is worse than the pass blocking is like saying Ugly Betty is uglier than Phyllis Diller. What's the point. It's all ugly.

BTW - Dwayne Robertson: Why are you here?

[serphnx]

What team are you watching!? I heard Pennington has the second best pass completion percentage of all time. In years' past, his QB rating has been very high. He throws a few INTs this season and suddenly "he has always sucked"! Chad should receive the same number of seconds (from his OL) to do his check down that an average NFL QB receives. He doesn't. If KC doesn't think and react quicker than Chad, he's toast.

The OL sucks. To say the run blocking is worse than the pass blocking is like saying Ugly Betty is uglier than Phyllis Diller. What's the point. It's all ugly.

BTW - Dwayne Robertson: Why are you here?

QBs are judged by how they push the ball upfield. That is according to Steve Young. QBs are judged by how often they their team into the endzone. That is according to Bill Parcells, and Chad after replacing Vinny.

By both of these criteria, Pennington failed miserably. The only people that think QB rating is what a QB should be judged by are Chad fans, and that is quite a bit more biased than Steve Young and Bill Parcells commenting on QBs in general.

[Steelbirds]

QBs are judged by how they push the ball upfield. That is according to Steve Young. QBs are judged by how often they their team into the endzone. That is according to Bill Parcells, and Chad after replacing Vinny.

By both of these criteria, Pennington failed miserably. The only people that think QB rating is what a QB should be judged by are Chad fans, and that is quite a bit more biased than Steve Young and Bill Parcells commenting on QBs in general.

So, one would infer that Young was a better QB than CP. Never mind Young inherited a championship defense that helped SFs offense stay on the field longer, a superior OL, a Jerry Rice, a superior running game. I'd bet Young would keep his quotes to himself had he been taking snaps in NY. He was no Montana.

Parcells would have fixed this OL years ago. A legacy present from Herm's internship.

Absent a championship team to insert a QB into, statistics are necessary. That's why they keep stats.

[NJ]

What team are you watching!? I heard Pennington has the second best pass completion percentage of all time.

He could have the best % by 2X and what does that mean? It means d!ckfist relative to winning football games. What team are you watching? You bet his line sucks but the pressure applied to him and our RB's without a viable vertical passing attack has earned him his clipboard. Hopefully KC can use the little time he's going to have to get some completions of substance and gain some respect from opposing defense's. At least until our line matures a little or we can plug some holes through FA. Chads dump pass high completion % worked nice enough when the line was so - so and we had C-Mart running the ball. It doesn't work worth a damn now.

[124]

What team are you watching!? I heard Pennington has the second best pass completion percentage of all time. In years' past, his QB rating has been very high. He throws a few INTs this season and suddenly "he has always sucked"! Chad should receive the same number of seconds (from his OL) to do his check down that an average NFL QB receives. He doesn't. If KC doesn't think and react quicker than Chad, he's toast.

I'm assuming the username "Steelbird" that you're a Steelers fan so let me enlighten you.

You, myself or my one year old cat could have the completion percentage that PutPut Pennington had. Ninenty percent or more of his throws have been dump-offs to the RB or FB or maybe one in a while he'll go crazy and toss a 5 yarder to Laveranues Coles or Jerricho Cotchery or whomever the receivers have been since 2002. Also, he is what? Only a couple hundred throws past the 1,500 career attempts that you have to have to be on that list.

Pennington never threw a lot of INT's, you're right, until last season. He had 16, one per game, which no isn't terrible but still isn't good. This year he was throwing 4th quarter interceptions like they were going out of style, including two pick six's, both in the 4th quarter as well. He was making stupid mistakes, something he didn't use to do. The start of this was seen last year and now it finally came to end.

[lancemehl]

So since Kellen is pressured by one of the best blitzing teams in Washington, lets disregard the games that the Offensive Line let up ONE SACK? Right. Great job. Take out your love for Pennington please. I can debate a player without using my so called by others "hatred" or "love" for that certain player.

Thomas Jones IS the same running back. If your offensive line can't block for you, where do you expect him to go? LaDainian Tomlinson and Adrian Peterson wouldn't be running for 4 yards per carry behind this Offensive Line. We miss Kendall dearly when we run the ball. When we pass the ball? Not really.

Yeah, we have the BRICK!!!! What's he talking abou. Noone collapses our pocket,not with "The Brick" up there.We are The Great wall when it comes to passing. hahahahahaha

Our line sucks!!!!!!Not only when we run,ALWAYS!!!!

[124]

Could it be better in pass protection? Yes it could. But it is not one of the worst. A big reason for Kellen's 3 sacks against Washington were, as someone said on another page on this thread, the Redskins blitzing more than usual to pressure Kellen because he was making his 2nd ever NFL start. Teams are going to do that the rest of the season. Get ready for more and more QB pressures. Teams cannot just sit back and let PutPut complete 4 yard passes anymore. They have to blitz for if they don't they know that Kellen has the arm to beat them deep.