The "real" reason why Clemens has replaced Pennington...

[NIGHT STALKER]

Of course this is just my opinion and I could be wrong...wouldn't be the first time in my life I was wrong. Pennington to me is the same player he was a few years ago...same arm, maybe a hair slower making some throws if that's possible. But, our O line really sucks and if Pennington doesn't have an average to above average line giving him time, he becomes a below average QB because he can't overcome the line deficiencies to make certain throws.

In comes Clemens, he was needed because of the O line...the coaching staff is hoping he can overcome the short comings of the O line, where Pennington cannot. Guaranteed if we had an O line like we had a few years ago, Pennington would still be behind center.

[serphnx]

Well blowing 5 games in a row with back breaking INTs returned for TDs or low point totals scored may have had something to do with it.

[nico002]

Well blowing 5 games in a row with back breaking INTs returned for TDs or low point totals scored may have had something to do with it.

Ding ding ding

[afosomf]

the real reason

[124]

So the Jets didn't care that Pennington was throwing 4th quarter interceptions right to the opponents? And they said Vinny is color blind. Or maybe it just might've been that in five game span, in two of those games, BOTH AT HOME, Pennington failed to get the offense into the endzone?

[NIGHT STALKER]

So the Jets didn't care that Pennington was throwing 4th quarter interceptions right to the opponents? And they said Vinny is color blind. Or maybe it just might've been that in five game span, in two of those games, BOTH AT HOME, Pennington failed to get the offense into the endzone?

If you go back 5 years to the 2002 playoff game against the Raiders, they exposed Pennington for what he is...and to me, he's no different in that playoff game then what he is now.

It seems you guys don't want to acknowledge that our O line is one of the worst in the league and maybe, just maybe that has something to do with our lack of offense. Hey, it's all Pennington and when Clemens (and I hope he doesn't ...really) experiences the same results, it will be the O line then?

[124]

What in gods name are you talking about? This is the same Offensive Line as last year, minus Pete Kendall. Has that hurt us in the running game? YES, no question about it. Has it hurt us in the passing game? No, not really. Adrien Clarke has let up some sacks, yes, but Pennington even when getting protection was still making stupid, bonehead mistakes late in the game. The run blocking is much worse than the pass blocking, and I refuse to say we're on of the worst teams via pass blocking in the NFL. Pete Kendall isn't Steve Hutchinson or Alan Faneca.

[SoFlaJets]

I think there was another reason too NS-my theory is they didn't want to drive his trade value down any more than it has already. maybe by say, April 15th people will have somewhat forgotten how bad he was back in September-October-November

[NIGHT STALKER]

What in gods name are you talking about? This is the same Offensive Line as last year, minus Pete Kendall. Has that hurt us in the running game? YES, no question about it. Has it hurt us in the passing game? No, not really. Adrien Clarke has let up some sacks, yes, but Pennington even when getting protection was still making stupid, bonehead mistakes late in the game. The run blocking is much worse than the pass blocking, and I refuse to say we're on of the worst teams via pass blocking in the NFL. Pete Kendall isn't Steve Hutchinson or Alan Faneca.

And what the frill are you talking about? And TJ is the same RB he was in Chicago? And remind me again how many rushing TD's he has this year and this is all based on that All Pro Pete Kendall?...you ought to remove your hatred for Pennington and look at the entire picture of this team...it sucks and it all begins up front.

How many times did Clemens have to run for his life last game because the pass blocking broke down? Can't wait for the Steelers game...

[124]

So since Kellen is pressured by one of the best blitzing teams in Washington, lets disregard the games that the Offensive Line let up ONE SACK? Right. Great job. Take out your love for Pennington please. I can debate a player without using my so called by others "hatred" or "love" for that certain player.

Thomas Jones IS the same running back. If your offensive line can't block for you, where do you expect him to go? LaDainian Tomlinson and Adrian Peterson wouldn't be running for 4 yards per carry behind this Offensive Line. We miss Kendall dearly when we run the ball. When we pass the ball? Not really.

[NIGHT STALKER]

So since Kellen is pressured by one of the best blitzing teams in Washington, lets disregard the games that the Offensive Line let up ONE SACK? Right. Great job. Take out your love for Pennington please. I can debate a player without using my so called by others "hatred" or "love" for that certain player.

Thomas Jones IS the same running back. If your offensive line can't block for you, where do you expect him to go? LaDainian Tomlinson and Adrian Peterson wouldn't be running for 4 yards per carry behind this Offensive Line. We miss Kendall dearly when we run the ball. When we pass the ball? Not really.

Well, that sums up your understanding of what I've been saying all along...you haven't paid attention to my previous posts Joe...I was never a Pennington fan from the day we drafted him...I just don't like putting all the blame on one guy when there's plenty of it to go around.

[124]

Well, that sums up your understanding of what I've been saying all along...you haven't paid attention to my previous posts Joe...I was never a Pennington fan from the day we drafted him...I just don't like putting all the blame on one guy when there's plenty of it to go around.

I have been paying attention. My argument is that the loss of Kendall really has not hurt the pass protection of the Quarterback and that this isn't one of the worst pass blocking lines in the league. Run blocking? Yeah, the loss of Kendall has killed us and we have become one of the worst in that area. Unless Pennington all of the sudden became a Quarterback, I don't see how the OLine, when throwing the ball, came into play with his benching.

[joewilly]

the real reason

potw.....now thats friggin funny cause it's so true

pretty good point though nightstalker

[KSJets]

I seem to remember a stat somewhere that Kendall didn't give up a lot of sacks last year or the year before he gave up none. It's painfully obvious that Clarke is not the pass protector that Kendall was so I'm not sure why you're saying the pass blocking has not suffered without him. Clarke sometimes looks lost on stunts and blitzes to his side.

[Barton]

I seem to remember a stat somewhere that Kendall didn't give up a lot of sacks last year or the year before he gave up none. It's painfully obvious that Clarke is not the pass protector that Kendall was so I'm not sure why you're saying the pass blocking has not suffered without him. Clarke sometimes looks lost on stunts and blitzes to his side.

True. If anything, we have missed Kendall in pass protection. Not in run blocking, where he was mediocre.

[drago]

True. If anything, we have missed Kendall in pass protection. Not in run blocking, where he was mediocre.

i wish everyone on this team was mediocre...would probably be worth 3 or 4 more wins.

[Irish Jet]

What in gods name are you talking about? This is the same Offensive Line as last year, minus Pete Kendall. Has that hurt us in the running game? YES, no question about it. Has it hurt us in the passing game? No, not really. Adrien Clarke has let up some sacks, yes, but Pennington even when getting protection was still making stupid, bonehead mistakes late in the game. The run blocking is much worse than the pass blocking, and I refuse to say we're on of the worst teams via pass blocking in the NFL. Pete Kendall isn't Steve Hutchinson or Alan Faneca.

Losing Pete Kendall hasn't hurt the passing game?

You serious?

The amount of time I've seen Chad and Kellen getting attacked from blitzers going straight through Clarke is unbeliveable. He is better in pass protection than at run blocking but he's still very shaky.

Pete Kendall is playing absolutely great in Washington, he's having a pro-bowl type year, been great at both run blocking and in pass protection. He has outplayed anyone on our line this season, Mangold included.

[shawn306]

So since Kellen is pressured by one of the best blitzing teams in Washington, lets disregard the games that the Offensive Line let up ONE SACK? Right. Great job. Take out your love for Pennington please. I can debate a player without using my so called by others "hatred" or "love" for that certain player.

Thomas Jones IS the same running back. If your offensive line can't block for you, where do you expect him to go? LaDainian Tomlinson and Adrian Peterson wouldn't be running for 4 yards per carry behind this Offensive Line. We miss Kendall dearly when we run the ball. When we pass the ball? Not really.

Sorry 124 you are wrong on the Redskins being a great blitz team. They barely blitz at all.

I was watching the game against the Eagles Sunday they had a great stat. Redskins usually blitz 2 or 3 times a game on average. They blitzed Clemens 25 times. Why ? Because he is a rookie qb right now who cannot make the adjustments yet. That will come in time.

Clemens spent most of the day running for his life against the Redskins because he could not make the proper adjustments. Expect the same from the Steelers and everyone else until then.

[KSJets]

Sorry 124 you are wrong on the Redskins being a great blitz team. They barely blitz at all.

I was watching the game against the Eagles Sunday they had a great stat. Redskins usually blitz 2 or 3 times a game on average. They blitzed Clemens 25 times. Why ? Because he is a rookie qb right now who cannot make the adjustments yet. That will come in time.

Clemens spent most of the day running for his life against the Redskins because he could not make the proper adjustments. Expect the same from the Steelers and everyone else until then.

What's funny is that this is how we should play against every team we play that starts a rookie or inexperienced QB, but for the most part, we don't.

[SouthernJet]

sorry,,wrong

even on many plays where there was no pass rush this year, penny couldnt make simple throws,,he just lost juice on his already suspect arm..

[JohnnyLV]

Of course this is just my opinion and I could be wrong...wouldn't be the first time in my life I was wrong. Pennington to me is the same player he was a few years ago...same arm, maybe a hair slower making some throws if that's possible. But, our O line really sucks and if Pennington doesn't have an average to above average line giving him time, he becomes a below average QB because he can't overcome the line deficiencies to make certain throws.

In comes Clemens, he was needed because of the O line...the coaching staff is hoping he can overcome the short comings of the O line, where Pennington cannot. Guaranteed if we had an O line like we had a few years ago, Pennington would still be behind center.

I am surprised there are Penningtonologist left! He is not playing because he sucks, and Kellen is a better QB period. Don't try to manufacture yet another excuse why he sucks. It's never on Pennington to you. But in truth it is. Pennington sucks. Period.

[Ghost]

Pennington's performances is some games were just brutal. Made me sick.

[joewilly]

I dare say pretty much every q'back in the nfl can shine when there is no pressure whatsoever on defense. this is what seperates the good ones from the bad ones.

brady & payton make defenses pay more often than not when they blitz.

penny's weak arm & immobility invites blitzes & 8 men in the box, which makes him a poor q'back

clemens is inexperienced and will invite blitzes as a result but he will learn how to read them better in time. the good news is that he proved against baltimore and again last week that he can scramble & avoid a sack fumble or interception. He has proven to have pretty good instincts & will only get better.

[MasonJet]

Well blowing 5 games in a row with back breaking INTs returned for TDs or low point totals scored may have had something to do with it.

Maybe, but I think Anthony Clement actually threw those INT's. That's how I remember it anyway.

[NIGHT STALKER]

I am surprised there are Penningtonologist left! He is not playing because he sucks, and Kellen is a better QB period. Don't try to manufacture yet another excuse why he sucks. It's never on Pennington to you. But in truth it is. Pennington sucks. Period.

Hey newbie, maybe if you read this board more often, you'd realize that I'm not a Penny fan. Please don't respond to posts if you don't know the history of the person who started the thread.

When you were in diapers when the Jets drafted Pennington, I was against it from that moment on.

[flgreen]

I am surprised there are Penningtonologist left! He is not playing because he sucks, and Kellen is a better QB period. Don't try to manufacture yet another excuse why he sucks. It's never on Pennington to you. But in truth it is. Pennington sucks. Period.

????????

Night stalk is hardly a Penningtonologist. This post is almost silly.

Getting back to the point, the Jets OL is horrible. Last game is a major credit to Clemens.

He was sacked 3 times, and should have been sacked 4 more times. His pocket awareness, and ability to throw the ball on the run kept the game alive.

It actually made a believer out of me.

The real rap on Pennington isn't that he sucks, it's that he can't carry the team when the team sucks.

Consider this.

The Jets gave up 300 yards rushing........

The Jets top rusher had 48 yards............

As mentioned above, Clemens was under serous pressure all day.

The Jets fumbled on the 18 yard line

The Jets WR's dropped 5 balls, 3 of which would have won the game.

With all that said if Clemens last pass is caught, as it should have been, the Jets probably win the game.

If the 5 balls aren't dropped, the Jets win in a blow out.

That is carrying a team, something Pennington couldn't do. In spite of the horrible season, I can't wait to see Clemens again.

That is if the horrible OL doesn't get him killed.

[NJ]

If you go back 5 years to the 2002 playoff game against the Raiders, they exposed Pennington for what he is...and to me, he's no different in that playoff game then what he is now.

It seems you guys don't want to acknowledge that our O line is one of the worst in the league and maybe, just maybe that has something to do with our lack of offense. Hey, it's all Pennington and when Clemens (and I hope he doesn't ...really) experiences the same results, it will be the O line then?

Clemens has 3 distinct advantages over Penny in that he can:

• quick release
  
• throw with great velocity
  
• scramble and run for positive yardage

Thats more than enough attributes to make the switch as is the fact that Chad can't do any of the above. Play fake, hard count, audible, yada yada yada - yep Chads your man. Those things preformed at Chads level of proficiency are great icing. Problem is theres no cake.

[NIGHT STALKER]

Clemens has 3 distinct advantages over Penny in that he can:

• quick release
  
• throw with great velocity
  
• scramble and run for positive yardage

Thats more than enough attributes to make the switch as is the fact that Chad can't do any of the above. Play fake, hard count, audible, yada yada yada - yep Chads your man. Those things preformed at Chads level of proficiency are great icing. Problem is theres no cake.

NJ, I agree 100%...but, what gets me is, why didn't Mangini get this memo in preseason?

[Irish Jet]

NJ, I agree 100%...but, what gets me is, why didn't Mangini get this memo in preseason?

He obviously felt Chad was smarter and the better leader. Physically it's obvious Kellen is better but Chad overall would have been the better option enetering the season.

[JohnnyLV]

Hey newbie, maybe if you read this board more often, you'd realize that I'm not a Penny fan. Please don't respond to posts if you don't know the history of the person who started the thread.

When you were in diapers when the Jets drafted Pennington, I was against it from that moment on.

Well, I apologize then.

My point, through all the bluster, was just that Kellen is a better QB at this point than Chad and there really does not need to be any further reason, or hidden agenda here. In my view, he was clearly better in pre-season as well, and you could see that Chad was going to struggle. Mangini in my view decided to change QBs in the politically correct way for the team, which has been a huge factor in us winding up 1-8, which I was concerned about at the start of the season. There is a lot of frustration built up at that decision. But I am happy Chad is out, and we will improve with Kellen, and WE WILL be a playoff team next year.

[JetCane]

NJ, I agree 100%...but, what gets me is, why didn't Mangini get this memo in preseason?

CP was the more accurate thrower in practice during preseason, and had a better command of the offense (in his head) than Clemens did. Clemens also had some mechanics to work out from what I saw, and he's had an extra three months of practice now. He's been on a great improvement curve since he's been here, and i think he'll get better and better if the OL and playcalling gives him a chance to succeed.

As much as i dont like how mangini's coached the team this year, i agree with his decision to start CP in the opener against NE. No one really wanted KC to open up vs NE and at Balt. He ended up playing against the Ravens anyway, and if you recall CP turned in one of the better performances on the team in the opener against the Cheaters, until he got hurt. In Baltimore, Clemens started very slow but led a good comeback but the drops killed that.

The following week was the closer call, in week three vs the fish. He could have stuck with KC if he was ready to make the change, but it wasnt ready to happen yet. And everyone knew that CP has the Fishs' number. He played well enough against Miami to pull out the win.

It wasnt until the buffalo game that CP obviously started to fall apart, and that's when he should have gotten the quick hook. i would have started KC the next week against the gnats. After another disappointing performance there, I DEFINITELY would have have started KC the following week against the Iggles. After yet ANOTHER disappointing performance I MOST DEFINITELY would have started KC against the Bengals, and their suspect defense. AFter THAT LOSS, I DEFINITELY, DEFINLTELY would have started KC against the Bills.

[NIGHT STALKER]

Well, I apologize then.

My point, through all the bluster, was just that Kellen is a better QB at this point than Chad and there really does not need to be any further reason, or hidden agenda here. In my view, he was clearly better in pre-season as well, and you could see that Chad was going to struggle. Mangini in my view decided to change QBs in the politically correct way for the team, which has been a huge factor in us winding up 1-8, which I was concerned about at the start of the season. There is a lot of frustration built up at that decision. But I am happy Chad is out, and we will improve with Kellen, and WE WILL be a playoff team next year.

Hey, no problem Johnny...try to post more often. But, like I said, there are more problems with this team than Chad and making the playoffs next year will be a stretch. Our O line, and D line need to be tuned big time...might take a couple of years.

[NJ]

NJ, I agree 100%...but, what gets me is, why didn't Mangini get this memo in preseason?

I don't know man... it was to the point for me where I wouldn't have watched another game if Chad was under center. And from my perspective you could have pulled Chads pick-itis out of the equation and I would have felt the same way. The cakewalk opposing defenses had with Pennington throwing, the ability to stack the box, cheat in, read his balloons and take 'em away.... it was sickening. He wasn't going to grow another arm of get any better with the physical skills he was lacking. My only concern was hindering KC's chance at long term success by bringing him in too early. Hopefully he's ready to start the process that all QB's go through by learning the ropes in real time and our learning the ropes line doesn't get him killed in the process.

[Barton]

Because Pennington f'ing sucks.

[joewilly]

CP was the more accurate thrower in practice during preseason, and had a better command of the offense (in his head) than Clemens did. Clemens also had some mechanics to work out from what I saw, and he's had an extra three months of practice now. He's been on a great improvement curve since he's been here, and i think he'll get better and better if the OL and playcalling gives him a chance to succeed.

As much as i dont like how mangini's coached the team this year, i agree with his decision to start CP in the opener against NE. No one really wanted KC to open up vs NE and at Balt. He ended up playing against the Ravens anyway, and if you recall CP turned in one of the better performances on the team in the opener against the Cheaters, until he got hurt. In Baltimore, Clemens started very slow but led a good comeback but the drops killed that.

The following week was the closer call, in week three vs the fish. He could have stuck with KC if he was ready to make the change, but it wasnt ready to happen yet. And everyone knew that CP has the Fishs' number. He played well enough against Miami to pull out the win.

It wasnt until the buffalo game that CP obviously started to fall apart, and that's when he should have gotten the quick hook. i would have started KC the next week against the gnats. After another disappointing performance there, I DEFINITELY would have have started KC the following week against the Iggles. After yet ANOTHER disappointing performance I MOST DEFINITELY would have started KC against the Bengals, and their suspect defense. AFter THAT LOSS, I DEFINITELY, DEFINLTELY would have started KC against the Bills.

spot on jetcane. I couldn't even watch the jets in penny's last start. I just couldn't. clemens made the last game enjoyable for me to sit & watch.

2 tough tests comin up, but I think we're close to turning this thing around. I think clemens makes this team better, simply by giving us more options on offense and it'll carry over to the defense