Brian Schottenheimer

[drago]

It's more than time to take a serious look at what Shottenheimer's doing. Known fact that the line sucks - but does the line suck so bad if we move the chains through imaginative play call? The only imaginary thing I'm seeing is our chances at having a functional offense.

as most of us know, there are plenty of ways around a suspect offensive line. If the defense is coming up the field to fast, invite them up, dump a screen over their heads. I haven't seen a screen pass from this team all year, or if ther ewas one, it is going to thomas jones.

I'm not sure if the CS has forgotten that number 29 won the game for us in miami last year, and has 3 return TD's this year. To me, that adds up to a player that plays well in space.

The colts have a suspect line right now too. I'd almost say it is worse than ours. Manning gets around that by throwing quick passes, waiting for his chances, then he throws long.

This wouldn't be the first time a team survived with a poor O-line. Not sure why the CS doesn't make some adjustments to the offense.

[fastmover]

Except its not. Chad had Coles, and was losing to garbage defenses. Not good defenses like the cowboys. Plus, Chads a vet so there's no excuses for him.

You ar fos! You cried about how chad could not beat a good defense, but it is ok for clemens. the coles point will not hold water, we still would of had our a**ses handed to us with coles there. our problem has always been the line play and gameplan/play calls. every game we play the offense is exactly the same, no change to see what will happen, no adjustment, we are not playing to our players strengths at all! The problem is, you picked what side of the fence you were going to stand on and no you are being exposed!

clemens has alot of good aspects and so does chad, but both qb's would have to have coles in and play a perfect game in order for us to have a chance to win. we never offensively dominate or defensively dominate, nevermind both in the same game. maybe schotty needs to stop taking plays out of the madden playbook and create some of his own!!! qb play is not our problem, it's how they play becuase of our problems on the line that in turn adds to our overall schotty performance.

Semper Fi

[Barton]

You ar fos! You cried about how chad could not beat a good defense, but it is ok for clemens. the coles point will not hold water, we still would of had our a**ses handed to us with coles there. our problem has always been the line play and gameplan/play calls. every game we play the offense is exactly the same, no change to see what will happen, no adjustment, we are not playing to our players strengths at all! The problem is, you picked what side of the fence you were going to stand on and no you are being exposed!

clemens has alot of good aspects and so does chad, but both qb's would have to have coles in and play a perfect game in order for us to have a chance to win. we never offensively dominate or defensively dominate, nevermind both in the same game. maybe schotty needs to stop taking plays out of the madden playbook and create some of his own!!! qb play is not our problem, it's how they play becuase of our problems on the line that in turn adds to our overall schotty performance.

Semper Fi

Clemens put up more points vs the steelers than chad did in his entire career vs them. AND, we won the game.

I never said Chad was the whole problem. How many times do I have to repeat that? He was part of the problem. He's gone for a reason - he sucks and he wasnt going to get us to a SB. Get over it and live thru the ups and downs of a young QB w/Kellen Clemens. Its the only glimmer of hope we have left.

[Sperm Edwards]

as most of us know, there are plenty of ways around a suspect offensive line. If the defense is coming up the field to fast, invite them up, dump a screen over their heads. I haven't seen a screen pass from this team all year, or if ther ewas one, it is going to thomas jones.

I'm not sure if the CS has forgotten that number 29 won the game for us in miami last year, and has 3 return TD's this year. To me, that adds up to a player that plays well in space.

The colts have a suspect line right now too. I'd almost say it is worse than ours. Manning gets around that by throwing quick passes, waiting for his chances, then he throws long.

This wouldn't be the first time a team survived with a poor O-line. Not sure why the CS doesn't make some adjustments to the offense.

It is maddening. At one point in the 4th quarter we had 6 first downs the whole game. I think we ran Jones up the middle for -3 to +2 yards on 5 of them.

I don't think Schottenheimer understands the concept of "sticking with the run" as it is done successfully. Stick with the run if he's getting a few yards each time. If he's getting totally STUFFED, then put in a receiving back so there's at least some MINOR element of surprise if you still run up the middle at all.

Also, after all those 1st down runs up the gut for nothing, it seems that would set up at least ONE play-action on 1st down. If I saw Jones line up in a lone backfield, 7 yards back, and they did a play-action, I know it would fool the hell out of ME since I'd be expecting an up-the-gut rushing attempt from the Jets every single time.

Also if we can create some space up the middle purely with our OL, that's fine. When we can't, why are we not going with a fullback? It MIGHT do some good if the first linebacker near the hole is hit by a FB instead of tackling our HB. Or does Schottenheimer think that every team that has employed a FB as a lead-blocker has been foolish & he knows better? And amazingly, that same FB could stay in & help block a little when we pass. It's not like Jones can pick up a LBer and occupy him for more than 0.3 seconds anyway.

What does Brian Schottenheimer thinks he "gets" that no one else does?

[CobraVerde]

im sorry but people calling for gini and schottys job are retarded. You know what the problem with any team in the NFL? CONSISTENCY. Coaches dont last in their position long enough because fans arent patient enough. you want to be so much like the pats because out of sheer luck they managed to find someone off the bench that changed theirf ranchise around. If you want to that then go root for the Pats and leave the Jets alone. Yeah we've been waiting a while for a ring so what? we wont get there again if every year we are releasing our coaches and starters because they dont meet your expectations. Let them grow with the franchise for once geex. hat why the steelers are always in it because they have the same guys every year. You people want to fire this guy after only ONE bad season. HELLO WHO ELSE IS HAVING A GOOD SEASON BESIDES THE PATS AND DALLAS AND GREEN BAY!!??? No one else was running the table. Get over it and show some balls you big babies..

[pjam76]

im sorry but people calling for gini and schottys job are retarded. You know what the problem with any team in the NFL? CONSISTENCY. Coaches dont last in their position long enough because fans arent patient enough. you want to be so much like the pats because out of sheer luck they managed to find someone off the bench that changed theirf ranchise around. If you want to that then go root for the Pats and leave the Jets alone. Yeah we've been waiting a while for a ring so what? we wont get there again if every year we are releasing our coaches and starters because they dont meet your expectations. Let them grow with the franchise for once geex. hat why the steelers are always in it because they have the same guys every year. You people want to fire this guy after only ONE bad season. HELLO WHO ELSE IS HAVING A GOOD SEASON BESIDES THE PATS AND DALLAS AND GREEN BAY!!??? No one else was running the table. Get over it and show some balls you big babies..

The problem is the new coach in Green Bay started the same year as Mangini. In 2 seasons they are now a legit contender, at least for this year, while the Jets are back to square one.

This coaching staff does deserve another year, but if nothing improves, what's the point in sticking with a coaching staff that isn't very good.

The idea is to improve, not go into Year 3 having to fix everything all over again.

The same holes they had last year are the same holes they have this year. If they have the same holes again next year, how is that progressing for a better future?

The reality is, the Steelers went to the Super Bowl in Cowers third season. They lost the AFC Championship in his second season.

The Patriots went to the Super Bowl in BB second season.

IF this were year one of this regime, I'd say maybe it's a work in progress. They are in Year Two and unless they revamp the entire team, they aren't going to be that much better next year. Yeah they might get overlooked, they might even win 9 games, but just like last season, it really doesn't mean they are a good team. ANd that's the problem with the Jets.... They are the team that barely makes the playoffs one year, stinks the next, then makes the playoffs the next, but they never really improve or get better.

Right now, Mangini and Tanni do not look like they know how to improve this team. The other thing is Cower was "next of kin" basically in Pittsburgh. He worked his way up and had some experience. Even now in Pittsburgh, it's not like Tomlin wasn't known.

Mangini was a guy who was the DC for one season and rumors were BB took over the defense midway through that season cause it sucked. He wasn't "groomed" as a future NY Jet like Cower or Tomlin were future Steelers. IT seems they went the cheap route, rather than going after somebody that might have more experience. Yeah if Mangini were a NY Jet for a few seasons, I'd say why not. But the truth is, he was more a water boy than a guy who actually coached over the years. Handing him the Job just sounded like "Hey he worked with BB, lets get him and he's cheap."

[serphnx]

Barton clearly had an agenda against Pennington and now has an agenda for Clemens and this FO/CS. Hilarious. So Pennington apparently did not have a bad O-line this entire season, nor in any of his previous years (including last!).

[Barton]

Barton clearly had an agenda against Pennington and now has an agenda for Clemens and this FO/CS. Hilarious. So Pennington apparently did not have a bad O-line this entire season, nor in any of his previous years (including last!).

Last year the Oline performed much better, for whatever reason. Clement and Moore have played much worse this year than last year, and Clarke is big time liability and downgrade from just a decent player like Kendall.

I dont have an agenda. I just dont think anybody deserves to be fired as of this point in time. What is wrong with that?

[serphnx]

Last year the Oline performed much better, for whatever reason. Clement and Moore have played much worse this year than last year, and Clarke is big time liability and downgrade from just a decent player like Kendall.

I dont have an agenda. I just dont think anybody deserves to be fired as of this point in time. What is wrong with that?

You are ignoring common sense and using a lot of double standards. Either your football knowledge is lacking, which I'm not too sure of, or you are purposely choosing to make excuses for this CS because Clemens is starting. You did not afford Pennington the same leniency. I think you've tied yourself to Clemens and somehow think you need to support this CS now too with Clemens starting. That is how it looks to me and I'm sure plenty of others right now.

Simply put, there are ways around a bad offensive line, and terrible, stubborn playcalling that doesn't work is not the way to do it. Clemens is not going to improve with this type of playcalling, ever. At this point, this CS would fail to win with Brady or Manning, it is just that bad.

[Barton]

You are ignoring common sense and using a lot of double standards. Either your football knowledge is lacking, which I'm not too sure of, or you are purposely choosing to make excuses for this CS because Clemens is starting. You did not afford Pennington the same leniency. I think you've tied yourself to Clemens and somehow think you need to support this CS now too with Clemens starting. That is how it looks to me and I'm sure plenty of others right now.

Simply put, there are ways around a bad offensive line, and terrible, stubborn playcalling that doesn't work is not the way to do it. Clemens is not going to improve with this type of playcalling, ever. At this point, this CS would fail to win with Brady or Manning, it is just that bad.

That is correct. And why would I (or anyone else)?

You dont judge a 6 yr starter QB on the same scale as QB w/4 total starts.

The playcalling is not good. I have said that. But what did you expect yesterday? The Oline is a complete liability, we have a neophyte QB, our #1 WR is on the bench, and the opposing defense is good. No OC was going to call such a great game with all those problems.

Lets see what Schotty can do in 2008 with improved talent on offense. He deserves that opportunity based on the job he did in 2006.

[pjam76]

That is correct. And why would I (or anyone else)?

You dont judge a 6 yr starter QB on the same scale as QB w/4 total starts.

The playcalling is not good. I have said that. But what did you expect yesterday? The Oline is a complete liability, we have a neophyte QB, our #1 WR is on the bench, and the opposing defense is good. No OC was going to call such a great game with all those problems.

Lets see what Schotty can do in 2008 with improved talent on offense. He deserves that opportunity based on the job he did in 2006.

Who is to say the talent on the offense will improve drastically. Good coaches figure out ways to win... The Colts are a great example. They have 3 new starters on the OL over the past few weeks. Their RB is injured. Their number 1 WR and HOF WR missed the last few games. They have injuries on defense. Yet they only have 2 losses all year and they should have beaten SD if it wasn't for a bad game by Adam... And they were beating New England and only lost 24-20 to a team that is averaging 40 points per game.

Nobody is going to play a season without injuries. And when you have injuries, you have to figure ways to win or keep games close without those injuries. This lack of talent nonesense is getting old.

They've spent 3 draft picks on OL over the past two seasons. They drafted a RB in Washington, a RB/QB/WR in Smith, they drafted another WR in Stuckey, they traded for TJ, they traded for Barlow, they traded for Ramsey, they signed another QB, they drafted KC....

I'm sorry but with that many players drafted, signed, or traded for and the offense still has no real talent, that's saying it probably never will or the coaching staff has no clue how to use the talent they do have or did have.

[Jet Moses]

Who is to say the talent on the offense will improve drastically. Good coaches figure out ways to win... The Colts are a great example. They have 3 new starters on the OL over the past few weeks. Their RB is injured. Their number 1 WR and HOF WR missed the last few games. They have injuries on defense. Yet they only have 2 losses all year and they should have beaten SD if it wasn't for a bad game by Adam... And they were beating New England and only lost 24-20 to a team that is averaging 40 points per game.

Nobody is going to play a season without injuries. And when you have injuries, you have to figure ways to win or keep games close without those injuries. This lack of talent nonesense is getting old.

They've spent 3 draft picks on OL over the past two seasons. They drafted a RB in Washington, a RB/QB/WR in Smith, they drafted another WR in Stuckey, they traded for TJ, they traded for Barlow, they traded for Ramsey, they signed another QB, they drafted KC....

I'm sorry but with that many players drafted, signed, or traded for and the offense still has no real talent, that's saying it probably never will or the coaching staff has no clue how to use the talent they do have or did have.

POTW nomination.

[fastmover]

That is correct. And why would I (or anyone else)?

You dont judge a 6 yr starter QB on the same scale as QB w/4 total starts.

The playcalling is not good. I have said that. But what did you expect yesterday? The Oline is a complete liability, we have a neophyte QB, our #1 WR is on the bench, and the opposing defense is good. No OC was going to call such a great game with all those problems.

Lets see what Schotty can do in 2008 with improved talent on offense. He deserves that opportunity based on the job he did in 2006.

1st of all Chads rookie performance kills Kellens if you just want to go by rookie performance, So you are saying Schotty needs better talent to make himself look better, he still is not showing that he is willing to try anything different, look what trying something different has done with our defense, why not grow some balls and attempt a different aproach or gameplan, all the game plans seem to be the same, just the order of the same old plays that we run are changed! I am not calling for schott's job, just for a different way of playcalling just to see what will happen, at this point what do we have to loose?

Semper Fi

[fastmover]

Who is to say the talent on the offense will improve drastically. Good coaches figure out ways to win... The Colts are a great example. They have 3 new starters on the OL over the past few weeks. Their RB is injured. Their number 1 WR and HOF WR missed the last few games. They have injuries on defense. Yet they only have 2 losses all year and they should have beaten SD if it wasn't for a bad game by Adam... And they were beating New England and only lost 24-20 to a team that is averaging 40 points per game.

Nobody is going to play a season without injuries. And when you have injuries, you have to figure ways to win or keep games close without those injuries. This lack of talent nonesense is getting old.

They've spent 3 draft picks on OL over the past two seasons. They drafted a RB in Washington, a RB/QB/WR in Smith, they drafted another WR in Stuckey, they traded for TJ, they traded for Barlow, they traded for Ramsey, they signed another QB, they drafted KC....

I'm sorry but with that many players drafted, signed, or traded for and the offense still has no real talent, that's saying it probably never will or the coaching staff has no clue how to use the talent they do have or did have.

BINGO !!!

[Jet Moses]

at this point what do we have to lose?

Honestly? I can't think of anything.

[serphnx]

You have to be drafted within the first 2 rounds or Mangini probably won't play you. It'll be awhile...

[Barton]

Who is to say the talent on the offense will improve drastically. Good coaches figure out ways to win... The Colts are a great example. They have 3 new starters on the OL over the past few weeks. Their RB is injured. Their number 1 WR and HOF WR missed the last few games. They have injuries on defense. Yet they only have 2 losses all year and they should have beaten SD if it wasn't for a bad game by Adam... And they were beating New England and only lost 24-20 to a team that is averaging 40 points per game.

Nobody is going to play a season without injuries. And when you have injuries, you have to figure ways to win or keep games close without those injuries. This lack of talent nonesense is getting old.

They've spent 3 draft picks on OL over the past two seasons. They drafted a RB in Washington, a RB/QB/WR in Smith, they drafted another WR in Stuckey, they traded for TJ, they traded for Barlow, they traded for Ramsey, they signed another QB, they drafted KC....

I'm sorry but with that many players drafted, signed, or traded for and the offense still has no real talent, that's saying it probably never will or the coaching staff has no clue how to use the talent they do have or did have.

The Colts have a HOF QB, maybe the best all time. That, and that only, is the reason why they are still competitive with all those issues they have.

We have a neophyte at QB with 4 starts under his belt.

You cant really compare the two teams/situations.

[NYjet10]

the funny thing is he was almost could've been the dolphins head coach,but mangini convinced him to stay,and we were all happy,but now i wish schott went to miami, I mean miami would still have the same record though.

[Lady Jet]

Who is to say the talent on the offense will improve drastically. Good coaches figure out ways to win... The Colts are a great example. They have 3 new starters on the OL over the past few weeks. Their RB is injured. Their number 1 WR and HOF WR missed the last few games. They have injuries on defense. Yet they only have 2 losses all year and they should have beaten SD if it wasn't for a bad game by Adam... And they were beating New England and only lost 24-20 to a team that is averaging 40 points per game.

Nobody is going to play a season without injuries. And when you have injuries, you have to figure ways to win or keep games close without those injuries. This lack of talent nonesense is getting old.

They've spent 3 draft picks on OL over the past two seasons. They drafted a RB in Washington, a RB/QB/WR in Smith, they drafted another WR in Stuckey, they traded for TJ, they traded for Barlow, they traded for Ramsey, they signed another QB, they drafted KC....

I'm sorry but with that many players drafted, signed, or traded for and the offense still has no real talent, that's saying it probably never will or the coaching staff has no clue how to use the talent they do have or did have.

Aye, yi, yi.

Listen, I do understand many of the points you're going for.

But, you're premature.

Please stop comparing Magnini's second year to Belicheats 7th or Dungy's 5th.

[pjam76]

Aye, yi, yi.

Listen, I do understand many of the points you're going for.

But, you're premature.

Please stop comparing Magnini's second year to Belicheats 7th or Dungy's 5th.

What about the coach in Green Bay.. It's his second year.. What about Cower? In his second season he led the Steelers to the AFC Championship game. In his 3rd, he led them to the super bowl...

Like I said, if this were year number one, maybe it's rebuilding. This is year number two and we are far worse off this season than last.. Meaning we are starting from square one next year..

Last season, we didn't know who the starting QB would be, and who knew if Chad would be healthy enough to play.. So We brought in Ramsey and drafted KC.....

This season, we still have no clue who the QB will be.. Going into next season, we assume KC will be the starting QB, but at this point, he hasn't done anything to say he's a good or bad QB... It's only 4 games, but in all honesty, he should have about 8 games under his belt by now.

Before last season the OL was a joke.. So they drafted Mangold and DBrick... This season the OL is still a joke even with DBrick and Mangold. The defense was bad last season. The defense is still bad this season. The running game stunk last year. The running game still stinks this year...

The problem is, even in losing seasons, there has to be a sign of improvement. When you are going into year 3 worse than when you went into year one, that is not a good sign for things to come.

Maybe they sign or trade for some top of the line free agents. But maybe Woody and Tanni aren't about signing expensive top of the line free agents. I hope things are different this offseason, but when the Jets 2005 team looks about as good as or better than the 2007 version. that is a very very bad sign.

[JetCane]

POTW nomination.

Solid posting in this thread by pjam, sephnx and fastmover. Good stuff.

[Barton]

Alot of people are hating the coaching staff right now because they thought that going 10-6 and making the playoffs in 2006 meant that we werent still rebuilding. 2006 everything broke right for us. We are still rebuilding. 2007 was meant to be a down year despite last seasons success.

[pjam76]

Alot of people are hating the coaching staff right now because they thought that going 10-6 and making the playoffs in 2006 meant that we werent still rebuilding. 2006 everything broke right for us. We are still rebuilding. 2007 was meant to be a down year despite last seasons success.

I don't bye that theory at all. Rebuilding means you don't trade for a 29 year old RB. It means you start KC a lot sooner than they did. It means you start Harris a lot sooner than they did.

Rebuilding is an excuse teams that are 2-9 use. Teams don't rebuild in the NFL anymore. Oh wait, teams like the 49ers, Texans and Lions do and we see where that gets them.

All I know is the Packers and Jets were in the same situation in 2005. In 2007 the Pack are 10-1 and the Jets are once again starting over. Rebuilding means you improve, it doesn't mean going into year 3 you are no better than you were 2 seasons ago.

[JetCane]

Alot of people are hating the coaching staff right now because they thought that going 10-6 and making the playoffs in 2006 meant that we werent still rebuilding. 2006 everything broke right for us. We are still rebuilding. 2007 was meant to be a down year despite last seasons success.

meant to be?

It was meant to be that clemens would take over as QB at some point, but that didnt stop you from making thousands of posts about it when it was still premature.

Now that they started your boy, you're giving them all kinds of slack for doing a crappy job this season. The "talent" you are blaming includes players they have gotten, who arent producing. The players who havent bought into his program arent producing either. And the CS has been p1ss poor at devising effective schemes and gameplans to accomodate the talent they do have on the team.

Collecting a couple of good players in the draft each year is about all they have done well as far as rebuilding goes. And there's a lot more to building a team than just drafting a couple of good players.

[SoFlaJets]

meant to be?

It was meant to be that clemens would take over as QB at some point, but that didnt stop you from making thousands of posts about it when it was still premature.

Now that they started your boy, you're giving them all kinds of slack for doing a crappy job this season. The "talent" you are blaming includes players they have gotten, who arent producing. The players who havent bought into his program arent producing either. And the CS has been p1ss poor at devising effective schemes and gameplans to accomodate the talent they do have on the team.

Collecting a couple of good players in the draft each year is about all they have done well as far as rebuilding goes. And there's a lot more to building a team than just drafting a couple of good players.

right now Mangini has lost this team-there are about half the 22 guys playing on offense and defense who are still trying or who even care anymore-Bryan Thomas, Eric Barton Butch Hobson, every CB except Revis they all have to go-on offense we need to get rid of Clarke, Moore and Clement on the OL a new WR opposite Cotchery and maybe some new punters should be brought in too to compete with the mystery that has become of Ben Graham-not to mention firing Sutton, and Tony Wise and hopefully Brian Schottenheimer gets a HC offer somewhere that he takes

[Barton]

meant to be?

It was meant to be that clemens would take over as QB at some point, but that didnt stop you from making thousands of posts about it when it was still premature.

Now that they started your boy, you're giving them all kinds of slack for doing a crappy job this season. The "talent" you are blaming includes players they have gotten, who arent producing. The players who havent bought into his program arent producing either. And the CS has been p1ss poor at devising effective schemes and gameplans to accomodate the talent they do have on the team.

Collecting a couple of good players in the draft each year is about all they have done well as far as rebuilding goes. And there's a lot more to building a team than just drafting a couple of good players.

Who are you talking about? Coleman, Harris, Revis, Mangold, Brick, Leon -- all guys they brought in, are all producing.

Its hard to devise an effective scheme when you dont have enough talent. They gotta away with it last year because the league didnt see their gameplans before. It was all fresh and exciting. Now they have, opposing teams know what we did last year and they are stopping it this year. And we cant counter that because we just flat out dont have the man power right now. Its that simple.

No HC/DC/OC in the league could do jack sh#t with the lack of talent on this team + a neohpyte QB.

This offseason we should be able to get some of the man power and have a really productive season in 2008. If we dont do anything to improve, heads should roll.

[Barton]

I don't bye that theory at all. Rebuilding means you don't trade for a 29 year old RB. It means you start KC a lot sooner than they did. It means you start Harris a lot sooner than they did.

Rebuilding is an excuse teams that are 2-9 use. Teams don't rebuild in the NFL anymore. Oh wait, teams like the 49ers, Texans and Lions do and we see where that gets them.

All I know is the Packers and Jets were in the same situation in 2005. In 2007 the Pack are 10-1 and the Jets are once again starting over. Rebuilding means you improve, it doesn't mean going into year 3 you are no better than you were 2 seasons ago.

There you go again comparing the packers to the jets.....

2 things that you are forgetting:

1. The packers defense sucked for years. YEARS. It was complete garbage for YEARS. It took them YEARS to build it up.

2. The packers have a HOF QB.

[Smizzy]

I haven't been sold on this OC from the word GO but with this Oline and a QB change midseason...well...I just hope we turn the corner like the Defense has and soon.

[JetCane]

Who are you talking about? Coleman, Harris, Revis, Mangold, Brick, Leon -- all guys they brought in, are all producing.

Leon is not producing on offense this season, mostly because the CS is not putting him position to succeed.

Wallace Wright- not producing on offense.

Brad Smith- not producing, except on special teams.

Stuckey, Danny Ware never saw PT in the regular season for different reasons.

Of course clemens is not really producing too much now either. Great so they got mangold and Brick from two years ago, and Revis and Harris this year.

Like I have said in other posts, drafting two good players a year isnt enough to rebuild a football team. They are failing in so many other areas other than drafting, it is pathetic.

[jack48]

there is countless coaching problems on this team.. its horrible.. .thats why its so hard to watch... a good coach cna make even a bad team bearable to watch..

That is what confuses me. I know this sounds insane but you would almost expect an inexperienced QB like Clemens to have a few multiple INT games right off but he hasn't. He also hasn't thrown for 200+ very often. I think they are holding him back, limiting the playbook for fear of a mistake. If you do that, are you really making a change from Chad? I mean, if you are going to play the kid, why aren't you letting him do the things that make him different? The thing that has stood out the most is his running, and that is not part of the game plan. He is doing that on his own. Schott is running on first down and getting -1, 0, 1, 2 yards, immediatley putting him in long yardage situations. you are right. How about some play-action? We can't protect anyway.

[jack48]

Leon is not producing on offense this season, mostly because the CS is not putting him position to succeed.

Wallace Wright- not producing on offense.

Brad Smith- not producing, except on special teams.

Stuckey, Danny Ware never saw PT in the regular season for different reasons.

Of course clemens is not really producing too much now either. Great so they got mangold and Brick from two years ago, and Revis and Harris this year.

Like I have said in other posts, drafting two good players a year isnt enough to rebuild a football team. They are failing in so many other areas other than drafting, it is pathetic.

I think the drafts are okay. How about spending some money on FAs. We sign guys like Clement, Chatham, Kassell, Clarke. All forgettable. Woody, MIke, lets get someone good.

[Irish Jet]

Leon is not producing on offense this season, mostly because the CS is not putting him position to succeed.

Wallace Wright- not producing on offense.

Brad Smith- not producing, except on special teams.

Stuckey, Danny Ware never saw PT in the regular season for different reasons.

Of course clemens is not really producing too much now either. Great so they got mangold and Brick from two years ago, and Revis and Harris this year.

Like I have said in other posts, drafting two good players a year isnt enough to rebuild a football team. They are failing in so many other areas other than drafting, it is pathetic.

Leon hasn't been given any oppurtunities at RB at all this season, which confuses the hell out of me because his style of running is way more suited for playing behind a dodgy line than TJ. at least Leon can make a few guys miss and get some big yardage with his speed. IMO he needs more playing time.

[SoFlaJets]

I agree with Jetcane and Irish Jet about Leon-I've been sitting in front of my 42" screen for the last couple of weeks watching a relentless series of pass rushes against us scratching my head, and saying "where are the set-up screen passes to Leon or Jones counter the rush we've been seeing?"

That's the thing about Mangini this year he seems to have forgotten the forest for the trees-it's all the old football cliches he seems to ignore; "the game is won and lost in the trenches" "a screen will help slow down a pass rush" basic stuff we're just not doing this year

[Irish Jet]

I agree with Jetcane and Irish Jet about Leon-I've been sitting in front of my 42" screen for the last couple of weeks watching a relentless series of pass rushes against us scratching my head, and saying "where are the set-up screen passes to Leon or Jones counter the rush we've been seeing?"

That's the thing about Mangini this year he seems to have forgotten the forest for the trees-it's all the old football cliches he seems to ignore; "the game is won and lost in the trenches" "a screen will help slow down a pass rush" basic stuff we're just not doing this year

Agree, this season there has been no creativity on the offensive side of the ball. We're doing the same old crap every week whether with Chad or Kellen. We all know that Chad's strentgh was throwing off of play-action, yet we never seemed to utilize it. the few times we did it seemed to work well. We call the same curl/hook routes which teams are jumping like nothing else. I'll go out on a limb right now and guess that Asante Samuels will have a pick 6 vs us in Foxboro. No guesses as to how.

[PeterNorth09]

Schott was the strength of this coaching staff last year. Plus, the guy can coach the QB position. He turned Brees around in San Diego, the guy was a bust before Schotty took him under his wing. Also, I doubt Pennington makes a succesful comeback last year without him. He's also helped Clemens develop.

The personnel just aren't getting the job done this year. Ferguson can't run block, Clarke is terrible, Mangold has taken a step back and Moore and Clement are mediocre. Clemens hsa thrown some bad interceptions. He threw a terrible pass that should have ended the Steelers game but the defense gave him the ball back. You want to fire Schott go ahead but fire Mangini and the rest of the staff too because he is doing a better job than all of them.

Westhoff being the only exception.