Latest rumor Pennington to Ravens, Ryan to jets[Merged2X]

[Boozer76]

I'm not in love with Ryan either, there's some serious bust potential there, but Chad is past his prime after 2 shoulder surgeries and killing our cap room. Plus we'd be getting a 2nd round pick in return. Everyone knows the Ravens are DYING for a QB so they might be willing to give up a little more than they should for Chad.

Then we'd at least have 2 young QBs and if 1 pans out, well that's all we need.

If he falls to us at #6, then I have no problem with it. Th issue at hand is whether we should be giving up our 1st, 2nd, and a 4th for him. There is a rumor that BAL wants to give us their 2nd for Chad (which I think is absolute nonsense as Ozzie Newsome is a solid GM and knows alot better than to overpay that grossly for Chad). So we in turn end up dropping spots in the 2nd for Matt Ryan and losing a 4th. If we stay at 6 we could very easily land a guy like McFadden and Hardy in the 2nd. With our FA aquisitions plus adding a large redzone target and a huge HR threat to go along with Coles, Cotch, Jones, and Washington and all we would need Clemens to do is manage the game. What would be the point of drafting Ryan in that case? Furthermore, if we stay where we are AND pull off this la la land trade for Chad we could even bolster our D even further by adding a guy like Crable or Ballmer. So what's better:

Matt Ryan and a later 2nd round pick, possibly Crable or Ballmer and one less 4th rounder

-or-

McFadden, Hardy, and Crable/Ballmer AND we still have that 2nd 4th rounder.

Personally I think option 2 is so far better than one it's laughable.

[Arsis]

Getting to the playoffs should not replace winning the superbowl as the main objective of a season.

[GangGreen1212]

BC plays in the ACC which is hella better than Joe Flacco who couldn't beat Palko for the QB job at a mediocre Big East Pittsburgh.

[RSJ]

If he falls to us at #6, then I have no problem with it. Th issue at hand is whether we should be giving up our 1st, 2nd, and a 4th for him. There is a rumor that BAL wants to give us their 2nd for Chad (which I think is absolute nonsense as Ozzie Newsome is a solid GM and knows alot better than to overpay that grossly for Chad). So we in turn end up dropping spots in the 2nd for Matt Ryan and losing a 4th. If we stay at 6 we could very easily land a guy like McFadden and Hardy in the 2nd. With our FA aquisitions plus adding a large redzone target and a huge HR threat to go along with Coles, Cotch, Jones, and Washington and all we would need Clemens to do is manage the game. What would be the point of drafting Ryan in that case? Furthermore, if we stay where we are AND pull off this la la land trade for Chad we could even bolster our D even further by adding a guy like Crable or Ballmer. So what's better:

Matt Ryan and a later 2nd round pick, possibly Crable or Ballmer and one less 4th rounder

-or-

McFadden, Hardy, and Crable/Ballmer AND we still have that 2nd 4th rounder.

Personally I think option 2 is so far better than one it's laughable.

In theory I agree Booz. But at the time taking Browning Nagle was better than giving up our 2nd and 3rd for Brett Favre. Now I'm not saying Matt Ryan is the next Brett Favre - but if our organization thinks he is then they should make this move. I don't want this organization to play scared anymore. I want them to go and get the player they want. Can we all admit that trading up in a much stronger draft last year was the best thing to do?

[bitonti]

if April is liar's month, this week is liar's week

'exchanged draft ideas?'

[RSJ]

BC plays in the ACC which is hella better than Joe Flacco who couldn't beat Palko for the QB job at a mediocre Big East Pittsburgh.

And BC had average talent at best around Ryan.

[Boozer76]

I'm not in love with Ryan either, there's some serious bust potential there, but Chad is past his prime after 2 shoulder surgeries and killing our cap room. Plus we'd be getting a 2nd round pick in return. Everyone knows the Ravens are DYING for a QB so they might be willing to give up a little more than they should for Chad.

Then we'd at least have 2 young QBs and if 1 pans out, well that's all we need.

Mayock's right RSJ. Ryan does have all the tools. Some of his "haters" will argue the 19 interceptions mark (9 or 10 of which were thrown in two games) and that he played in the Big East. Yeah, that works when you're evaluating teams for the BCS, not for prospects in the NFL, sorry. If that were the case, Joe Flacco would be a boarderline 7th rounder.

Matt Ryan has what it takes and hopefully Tangini feels the same.

As GangGreen said, if the worst case scenario is two young QB's and one pans out, thats fine, because we just need one. Best case is both Clemens and Ryan become good players and we have a situation like San Diego used to and Cleveland currently does have.

No. The best scenario is adding gamebreakers to the offense and letting Clemens manage the game.

You never answered my question before-Why in the world would we have broke the bank for 2 players that will either be gone, retired, on severely declined by the time Ryan reaches his potential? If Matt Ryan was the target, then we should have been after a a younger OG like Smiley and look to possibly make a move for Ballmer in the draft. This team was built to win within the next 3 years. There is no way in hell they are going to throw that money down the drain by trading away this draft to grab Ryan so they can go through the pains of his learning, only to have to start using next years draft picks to get guys who will succeed the guys we just paid a boatload of money for. Having made the moves this FO made in the offseason, trading up to get Ryan would go down in my book as one of the WORST offseason moves in the history of all football, much less the Jets.

[Greenseed3]

I don't understand why this rumor has Chad going to Baltimore hinging on whethor or not we take Ryan. (???)

If Atlanta or Kansas City draft Matt Ryan, wouldn't Chad still be desireable to the Ravens?

I'd rather keep the #6 pick, and exchange Chad for a top of the second-round QB (like Henne, or Flacco).

[GangGreen1212]

Matt Ryan and a later 2nd round pick, possibly Crable or Ballmer and one less 4th rounder

-or-

McFadden, Hardy, and Crable/Ballmer AND we still have that 2nd 4th rounder.

Personally I think option 2 is so far better than one it's laughable.

Only problem with this is that there's no way Hardy drops out of the 1st round. Too many teams looking for a WR with some height and speed.

[RSJ]

if April is liar's month, this week is liar's week

'exchanged draft ideas?'

if they do trade up it would be for Long not Ryan

Perhaps - but I think Ryan fits this regime's mold to a "T".

[124]

Option 2 bites. So what if they move down a couple of spots in Round 2? This isn't a drop from the third pick in Round 2 to the 32nd, it isn't that bad of a drop at all. A couple of spots, so what?

I'd rather have a franchise Quarterback than the next KiJana Carter / Blair Thomas, with legs and a waist that is smaller than Mike Nugent's, and possibly James Hardy, if he lasts to 36. Thats just my view.

[RSJ]

No. The best scenario is adding gamebreakers to the offense and letting Clemens manage the game.

You never answered my question before-Why in the world would we have broke the bank for 2 players that will either be gone, retired, on severely declined by the time Ryan reaches his potential? If Matt Ryan was the target, then we should have been after a a younger OG like Smiley and look to possibly make a move for Ballmer in the draft. This team was built to win within the next 3 years. There is no way in hell they are going to throw that money down the drain by trading away this draft to grab Ryan so they can go through the pains of his learning, only to have to start using next years draft picks to get guys who will succeed the guys we just paid a boatload of money for. Having made the moves this FO made in the offseason, trading up to get Ryan would go down in my book as one of the WORST offseason moves in the history of all football, much less the Jets.

We have no idea when Ryan will develoop and Big Ben was not horrible as a rookie and by year 3 won a super bowl. These players we signed will still be on the roster 3 years from now.

[NY JET 29]

I only made one thread today, and noone got mad:)

[RSJ]

Option 2 bites. So what if they move down a couple of spots in Round 2? This isn't a drop from the third pick in Round 2 to the 32nd, it isn't that bad of a drop at all. A couple of spots, so what?

I'd rather have a franchise Quarterback than the next KiJana Carter / Blair Thomas, with legs and a waist that is smaller than Mike Nugent's, and possibly James Hardy, if he lasts to 36. Thats just my view.

Plus there isn't a chance in hell the Jets will ever pick Hardy anyway.

[Boozer76]

Option 2 bites. So what if they move down a couple of spots in Round 2? This isn't a drop from the third pick in Round 2 to the 32nd, it isn't that bad of a drop at all. A couple of spots, so what?

I'd rather have a franchise Quarterback than the next KiJana Carter / Blair Thomas, with legs and a waist that is smaller than Mike Nugent's, and possibly James Hardy, if he lasts to 36. Thats just my view.

So answer my question Joe. Why did this regime jsut brak the bank for older players that will be past their prime by the time Ryan reaches his full potential? Why pay Faneca so much money? Why not go for a younger Smiley? Why go for an older Jenkins? If anything, Sean Rogers would be the choice on age alone given that he'll be around for a few moreyears than Jenkins-or look in the draft for a NT, such as Ballmer. Pace is the only FA we signed that would make any sense in terms of then turning around and drafting a franchise QB, and giving up 3 picks to do so. And let's be very real, there isn't a chance in hell we're getting a 2nd rounder for Chad. None.

[madmike1]

Getting a 2 for Chad? DO IT. DO IT NOW.

[124]

Boozer, sorry, but Darren McFadden is no game breaker. He is a bust. I'm tired of hearing we have no game breakers, BULL****. Leon Washington is a game breaker when he is put onto the field and with Miller's return, Schottenheimer will be using Leon (hopefully) more on offense. They also have Jerricho Cotchery, one of the best if not the best YAC receiver(s) in the NFL. Sure he doesn't have blazing speed, but he makes people miss and that is just as good, IMO.

My answer to your question is this, another question:

Do you really believe Chad Pennington or Kellen Clemens will do more than Matt Ryan? Ryan and Clemens are about the same in terms of NFL experience and Pennington is 32, on the decline, and a game manager. With the team we have around him, at MOST Pennington can win 9 or 10 games. I'm sorry, but I'm TIRED of playoffs. I want CHAMPIONSHIPS. With Matt Ryan, that possibiilty is there in two or three years if you believe in him. In two or three years, Faneca WILL be here. Woody WILL be here. Pace WILL be here. Jenkins WILL be here.

Fancea is an All-Pro Offensive Lineman. At 34, 35, he's still going to be dominant, most likely, or at least still very good. Pace is young, Jenkins is in his 20's and should have a long life span. Look at Ted Washington. ****, if that guy can play until he's almost 40, I'm sure Jenkins will be just fine.

The argument of bringing in the vets is just dumb. Chad Pennington isn't going to do anything better than Matt Ryan.

[RSJ]

So answer my question Joe. Why did this regime jsut brak the bank for older players that will be past their prime by the time Ryan reaches his full potential? Why pay Faneca so much money? Why not go for a younger Smiley? Why go for an older Jenkins? If anything, Sean Rogers would be the choice on age alone given that he'll be around for a few moreyears than Jenkins-or look in the draft for a NT, such as Ballmer. Pace is the only FA we signed that would make any sense in terms of then turning around and drafting a franchise QB, and giving up 3 picks to do so. And let's be very real, there isn't a chance in hell we're getting a 2nd rounder for Chad. None.

NT's and Guards can play up to a great level until 34 or 35. That gives them 4 or 5 more good years ahead of them.

[Ghost]

It's not just about us fellas, meaning who the Pats pick WILL effect us.

Do you want the Pats to have Gholston or DMC ? I don't know about you guys but I do not want to picture that.

[aec4]

Boozer, sorry, but Darren McFadden is no game breaker. He is a bust. I'm tired of hearing we have no game breakers, BULL****. Leon Washington is a game breaker when he is put onto the field and with Miller's return, Schottenheimer will be using Leon (hopefully) more on offense.

Our backup RB is a gamebreaker. CLASSIC

They also have Jerricho Cotchery, one of the best if not the best YAC receiver(s) in the NFL. Sure he doesn't have blazing speed, but he makes people miss and that is just as good, IMO.

Gamebreaker... hahhahahahahha

[Ghost]

Gholston or McFadden are the two guys we have to be thinking about. Matt Ryan is going to be a future QB but Gholston could be as important.

[124]

Hey aec4, Maurice Jones-Drew and Reggie Bush arn't game breakers? Try telling that to the rest of the NFL.

Last I checked, wheter it be speed or YAC, receivers doing either or are making plays, changing the game and changing momentum. To me, thats a game breaker, not some "sexy" draft pick with toothpicks as legs. Give me a break.

Do you do anything but personal attack and then continue to look stupid? You are a joke.

[RSJ]

It's not just about us fellas, meaning who the Pats pick WILL effect us.

Do you want the Pats to have Gholston or DMC ? I don't know about you guys but I do not want to picture that.

The Pats won't pick either one. I hope they do, I really do hope they pick one of those guys - but they are smarter than that.

[Ghost]

Boozer, sorry, but Darren McFadden is no game breaker. He is a bust. I'm tired of hearing we have no game breakers, BULL****. Leon Washington is a game breaker when he is put onto the field and with Miller's return, Schottenheimer will be using Leon (hopefully) more on offense. They also have Jerricho Cotchery, one of the best if not the best YAC receiver(s) in the NFL. Sure he doesn't have blazing speed, but he makes people miss and that is just as good, IMO.

My answer to your question is this, another question:

Do you really believe Chad Pennington or Kellen Clemens will do more than Matt Ryan? Ryan and Clemens are about the same in terms of NFL experience and Pennington is 32, on the decline, and a game manager. With the team we have around him, at MOST Pennington can win 9 or 10 games. I'm sorry, but I'm TIRED of playoffs. I want CHAMPIONSHIPS. With Matt Ryan, that possibiilty is there in two or three years if you believe in him. In two or three years, Faneca WILL be here. Woody WILL be here. Pace WILL be here. Jenkins WILL be here.

Fancea is an All-Pro Offensive Lineman. At 34, 35, he's still going to be dominant, most likely, or at least still very good. Pace is young, Jenkins is in his 20's and should have a long life span. Look at Ted Washington. ****, if that guy can play until he's almost 40, I'm sure Jenkins will be just fine.

The argument of bringing in the vets is just dumb. Chad Pennington isn't going to do anything better than Matt Ryan.

What in the bloody hell makes you think he's a bust when he hasn't played a down in the NFL yet ? PLEASE! PLEASE! Answer me that question.

[Boozer76]

We have no idea when Ryan will develoop and Big Ben was not horrible as a rookie and by year 3 won a super bowl. These players we signed will still be on the roster 3 years from now.

Faneca will be 35 years old. Richardson will be about 100. Woody will be 34. Jenkins will be 33.

At best they will have 1-2 good years left by then. These players were paid to be good for us NOW. Not 3-5 years from now. You don't open your checkbook like this to then throw it away on a rookie QB. And if you think trading half our draft away (after having done it last year as well) for Matt Ryan in the hopes that he turns out to be the one other rookie QB that has success such as Big Ben, well then you're as insane as the whole idea of this trade is. Chad is worth a 4th rounder at best. We're not getting a 2nd for him. This trade is beyond stupidity. It would be the dumbest offseason as a whole ever. Dumber than anything the Raiders have even done this year.

[Ghost]

The Pats won't pick either one. I hope they do, I really do hope they pick one of those guys - but they are smarter than that.

Are you kidding me ? The Pats LB's are older than dirt. Unfortunately, Gholston will be the perfect fit in that defense.

[124]

What in the bloody hell makes you think he's a bust when he hasn't played a down in the NFL yet ? PLEASE! PLEASE! Answer me that question.

Tooth pick legs youngin, tooth pick legs. That and he can't take a hit without going down right away. This guy has NFL Bust written all over him. Thankfully the smart analysts (Mayock) agree to an extent.

[Boozer76]

NT's and Guards can play up to a great level until 34 or 35. That gives them 4 or 5 more good years ahead of them.

Right, and other than Ben Roethlisberger, QB's take 3 years to reach their potential. Which means Ryan will be getting 1 or 2 years left with the guys we signed this year.

[Vudu]

Matt Ryan is grossly overrated! Certainly not worth our #6 pick. It just slays me the amount of people that are declaring McFadden a bust when he hasnt played a single down inthe NFL yet. it seems to me that more people are rooting tfor him to fail than to actually uplift our team. Maybe I need to reevaluate what being a FAN is.

[124]

Are you kidding me ? The Pats LB's are older than dirt. Unfortunately, Gholston will be the perfect fit in that defense.

Yeah, those same Linebackers that helped the team go 18-1 last season. Those same Linebackers where a part of containing MJD, Taylor and Turner in the postseason. The Giants didn't run too well against New England either. In the end, their young secondary led by Asante Samuel, let them down.

[Ghost]

Tooth pick legs youngin, tooth pick legs. That and he can't take a hit without going down right away. This guy has NFL Bust written all over him. Thankfully the smart analysts (Mayock) agree to an extent.

How can you say that ? Behind our OL McFadden can be the RB we need. I can't remember the last time we had a playmaker who looks good as this kid. He has a weakness but who doesn't ?

If you don't like him, you have to think the Jets will pick Gholston.

[Ghost]

Matt Ryan is grossly overrated! Certainly not worth our #6 pick. It just slays me the amount of people that are declaring McFadden a bust when he hasnt played a single down inthe NFL yet.

I just said that.

[RSJ]

Faneca will be 35 years old. Richardson will be about 100. Woody will be 34. Jenkins will be 33.

At best they will have 1-2 good years left by then. These players were paid to be good for us NOW. Not 3-5 years from now. You don't open your checkbook like this to then throw it away on a rookie QB. And if you think trading half our draft away (after having done it last year as well) for Matt Ryan in the hopes that he turns out to be the one other rookie QB that has success such as Big Ben, well then you're as insane as the whole idea of this trade is. Chad is worth a 4th rounder at best. We're not getting a 2nd for him. This trade is beyond stupidity. It would be the dumbest offseason as a whole ever. Dumber than anything the Raiders have even done this year.

So we can't replace a FB? I believe he is only signed for one year anyway. Prolly just to buy time and develope his back up. Faneca and Woody will both be playing solid football at those ages and this isn;t the only draft pick we are making in the next 4 years. The rest of our roster is very young. And who cares if it takes 3 years like others instead of instantly like Big Ben. Right now we have no one. CP will not get it done and Clemens looked like a bust last year. Only a green glass wearing Jets fan would think otherwise. He was outplayed by Brodie Croyle against a worse defense than Croyle faced in the very same game.

[124]

Right, and other than Ben Roethlisberger, QB's take 3 years to reach their potential. Which means Ryan will be getting 1 or 2 years left with the guys we signed this year.

If you think the guys we signed this year only have 1 or 2 years left, you're sadly mistaken.

Only Ben Roethlisberger? Sure he had one hell of a start, but there was a team around him. The Jets have a pretty decent, and could become an even better team if their new pieces click, around their Quarterback. Matt Ryan wouldn't have to come in and have a 65% completion percentage or a 30 touchdown season, he would have to manage and not make the stupid mistakes Pennington has started to make over the past two seasons.

[RSJ]

Are you kidding me ? The Pats LB's are older than dirt. Unfortunately, Gholston will be the perfect fit in that defense.

Gholston is strictly a one gapper at this point. He will be very easy to gameplan against the same way Abe is. Run right at him and throw a RB out in a pattern in his direction. He can't stop the run and he can't cover. By the third quarter you will have him dreaming about the weight room.