4HCrew Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 As much as I fear the dink and dunk offense, with the new improved offensive line, an improved running game is it even possible Chad could spread the field a bit? Granted there will not be bombs unless it is a flea flicker or something but 20-25 yard passes down field to keep it open? An improved running game will keep the defense a bit on their toes so is this possible? or in my disgust of the dink and dunk offense just trying to find a bright spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFLs StepChild Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Some validity to that. He's serviceable. He can play many games very well and keep it in control and keep the time of possession and chains moving. He'll spread the offense and get us in FG range, but he will constantly face tight coverage upfield and maybe the occasional flea flicker, deep crossing route or skinny post works but 9 times out of 10 there will be 8 men in the box and the DBs will be sitting on the route when he is forced to throw. If he can have a defense provide him with a max of 17 pts, we have a shot with him and his tactical, slow game. If we need to push the ball upfield, we are sunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 As much as I fear the dink and dunk offense, with the new improved offensive line, an improved running game is it even possible Chad could spread the field a bit? Granted there will not be bombs unless it is a flea flicker or something but 20-25 yard passes down field to keep it open? An improved running game will keep the defense a bit on their toes so is this possible? or in my disgust of the dink and dunk offense just trying to find a bright spot I'm exactly where you are right now. And I think he'll be able to do that a little against bad defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJ667 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 yes it's possible that the offense can open up under chad. it's not like it'll be a wild passing offense and it won't be constant excitement, but chad can loft a 30 yard seam route and throw a 50 yard bomb. the offense just wont include 15 -20 yard out routes. those require zip. chad doesn't have that. he's a touch passer. so as long as schottenhiemer mixes things up and calls for a few long passes the offense will be ok to good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aec4 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Bombs are completely overrated. Even the most strong armed QB throws 2-4 at most a game. Armstrength is shown mostly on the OUT route.. the one that if it is not thrown on a line is picked. I think coming off the major surgery and now this being year #3, I think Pennington may be OK. I think the ankle hurt him more than it would hurt say Jay Cutler last year because he needs his legs to generate power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Bombs are completely overrated. Even the most strong armed QB throws 2-4 at most a game. Armstrength is shown mostly on the OUT route.. the one that if it is not thrown on a line is picked. I think coming off the major surgery and now this being year #3, I think Pennington may be OK. I think the ankle hurt him more than it would hurt say Jay Cutler last year because he needs his legs to generate power. Chad barely throws 2-4 in a month. And with the exception of blown coverage, they seem to do little other than supposedly stretch the defense. As though any DC seriously believes he's going to try it again for the rest of the game. And Pennington can't throw an out either more than 7-8 yards from the LOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4HCrew Posted July 31, 2008 Author Share Posted July 31, 2008 I am not saying bombs are necessary but you can only throw so many dump offs to the back and the 10 yard outs. 20-30 yard passes could do wonders... god damn it Kellen can you figure this game out already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I am not saying bombs are necessary but you can only throw so many dump offs to the back and the 10 yard outs. 20-30 yard passes could do wonders... god damn it Kellen can you figure this game out already I'm going to be depressed if he doesn't get any better than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFLs StepChild Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 He won't get better without getting on the field. Risk v. Reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aec4 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I'm going to be depressed if he doesn't get any better than this. Don't be.. While Clemens will probably more exciting to watch, I think we'll win more if Pennington is at the helm. This is more of a criticism on Clemens than it is a compliment to Pennington though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Chad could spread the field better than last year given the new improved OL but it still will be a very vanilla offense game plan. The problem is our defense would have to play scary against the better teams and create turnovers for us to compete for a playoff spot. The dink and dunk puts absolutely zero pressure on the opponents defense. If we get down early... Clemens needs to develop quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMaynard Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 With the known improvements (Fanaca, Woody, Coles playing an entire year, Richardson, Jenkins, Pace, Harris playing an entire year) and hopeful improvements (D'Brick, Stuckey, Keller, Gholston, Miller) of this team, Chad can probably win 10, maybe 11 games, get a wild card entry into the playoffs and exit in either the first or second round. With this team, and fullfilling his potential (big if), Clemens can win 12 - 14 games, possibly win the division or at least win a wildcard and take us well into the playoffs and who knows how far. If he is no better than last year (which is what it appears to be so far in camp), he will probably win 7 or 8 games. If I am overrating Clemens' potential (and I am sure virtually everyone will say I am), then give the job to Chad right now and start thinking about where to find the future QB of the team. If I am not, Mangini will stretch this decision as long as needed/feasible. It is a tough decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Well ideally Kellen would step up and lead this team. But if that is not the case than Chad is who we will root for. Chad has the respect of the players. He has given this franchise every he has. And this team does seem to be built to his strengths. They will run often. Chad being the QB with no running game (i.e. like last year) isn't good. It would be nice to see the play action pass be an option again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I am not saying bombs are necessary but you can only throw so many dump offs to the back and the 10 yard outs. 20-30 yard passes could do wonders... god damn it Kellen can you figure this game out already chad will be chad - good against bad teams, and crap his pants against top 10 defenses. with chad at qb the jets will see 8 in the box and press coverage. 3 and out here we come..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aec4 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 chad will be chad - good against bad teams, and crap his pants against top 10 defenses. with chad at qb the jets will see 8 in the box and press coverage. 3 and out here we come..... I agree with the Chad assessment. The problem is, Kellen Clemens appears to crap his pants against the top 32 defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I agree with the Chad assessment. The problem is, Kellen Clemens appears to crap his pants against the top 32 defenses. based on what body of work? 3-5 with a sieve for an o-line and no offensive weapons. he was throwing to brad smith and wallace wright last season with clint oldenberg and adrien clarke on the oline. and even with all of those problems he had a better record than chadwick, and led the team to comebacks against the skins and ravens that the jets had chances to win other than a barrage of dropped balls. since tearing his rotator cuff, chad has been done. period. lets see what the kid can do when the lights are on, he has a running game, and a couple of healthy wr's. chad has had his chance and failed everytime. i could honestly care less about training camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aec4 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 based on what body of work? 3-5 with a sieve for an o-line and no offensive weapons. he was throwing to brad smith and wallace wright last season with clint oldenberg and adrien clarke on the oline. and even with all of those problems he had a better record than chadwick, and led the team to comebacks against the skins and ravens that the jets had chances to win other than a barrage of dropped balls. since tearing his rotator cuff, chad has been done. period. lets see what the kid can do when the lights are on, he has a running game, and a couple of healthy wr's. chad has had his chance and failed everytime. i could honestly care less about training camp. Based on the scared look on his face. Athletes, even if they are scared, should not LOOK scared. It doesn't breed confidence. 3-5, I couldn't care less what he did when the team was 1-7 and it was known the season was over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 yes it's possible that the offense can open up under chad. it's not like it'll be a wild passing offense and it won't be constant excitement, but chad can loft a 30 yard seam route and throw a 50 yard bomb. the offense just wont include 15 -20 yard out routes. those require zip. chad doesn't have that. he's a touch passer. so as long as schottenhiemer mixes things up and calls for a few long passes the offense will be ok to good That's it in a nutshell. Pennington can make all the throws, except the 15 yard out, which is a throw that requires a strong arm, or it comes back the other way. That doesn't sound that serious, but it is. When a team in a 3rd and 10, it is the route to go to. It is very difficult for a DB to cover a 15 yard out from a strong armed QB. That's the play that drives fans crazy because he can't throw it Penning will throw the 7 yard pass hoping the receiver will make a play, and the play comes up a yard short. Clemens on the other hand can throw the 15 yard out. From what I'm reading, and saw last season, his problem is he is advertising his throws. The DB's are reading him, and jumping the pattern. You can't let that happen in the NFL, period. He knew that was his problem at the end of last season He tried to fix it in the off season, by watching a lot of film. It's still broke. If he couldn't fix it in the off season, I have little hope he will get it fixed in the next 2-3 weeks. Contrary to popular belief, at least from what I am reading, most of Clemens picks weren't from 40+ yard bombs. They were from 10- 15 Yard passes that the DB's read. The way the Jet offense is going to be structured this year. They are hopefully going to be in a lot of 3rd and 2's. Right now Pennington is better suited to put the team in that situation, and convert. This isn't the best situation to be in, but it's a lot better then a QB killing a nice drive with an interception, and putting the defense back on their heels. For now the Jets will go with Pennington, and hope Clemens can fix it over the next year. Unless Ratliff takes his job. Which would be a very good development. Sadly it won't be this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetguy32 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 This Clemens guy sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I'm exactly where you are right now. And I think he'll be able to do that a little against bad defenses. We see the Bills and Pats twice, those are not bad defenses. We can't put Pennington as the starter, it's just like kissing our season goodbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aec4 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 We see the Bills and Pats twice, those are not bad defenses. We can't put Pennington as the starter, it's just like kissing our season goodbye. Unfortunately, we don't have a QB on the roster that we can't say the same thing about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Unfortunately, we don't have a QB on the roster that we can't say the same thing about. I rather have Ratliff than Pennington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Contrary to popular belief, at least from what I am reading, most of Clemens picks weren't from 40+ yard bombs. They were from 10- 15 Yard passes that the DB's read. do you realize how silly this sounds? you are trying to make qb comparisons/decisions based on eye witness accounts from training camp. no gameplans, no preparation - just practice. we're talkin about practice, not the game, practice. when the gameplans start and clemens is prepared for certain looks each week he will be fine. chadwick is done and has been for years. it was evident against the pats in the 06 playoffs and then last year was a disaster. chad peaked in 02 and its time to move on. clemens still hasn't had a chance, and no training camp doesn't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Simply put, no. Chad does not have the arm strength neccessary to throw a successful 20-30 yard pass unless the receiver has broken free a unusual amount of space away from the defender. Chad is going to win with a strong defense, solid running game and 5-10 yard throws with YAC from his receivers. Santana Moss, even though he wasn't fully utilized here, was great for Chad in the sense of YAC. Jerricho Cotchery, although not as fast as Santana, is much tougher and becoming that guy for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I rather have Ratliff than Pennington. Thats why your not an NFL coach, this is not Madden 09'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFLs StepChild Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Thats why your not an NFL coach, this is not Madden 09'. Says one armchair GM to the other... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudGOPPatriot Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Hello all. I am proud and honored to have Chad as our quarterback. He deserves more respect than he is given. He has lead his team to great victories against Brett Favre, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and yes even the great Balco Brady. I remember the old days of Ken Obrien, Bubby 'shovel pass' brister, browning nagle, washed up boomer etc. It is nice to watch a smart, dedicated field leader orchestrate our offense. Go jets and let's have a good season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Says one armchair GM to the other... ummm... We are talking about being an armchair coach here... Get it right at least before you poke fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Thats why your not an NFL coach, this is not Madden 09'. This works both ways, you went Pennington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 This works both ways, you went Pennington. Ummm I went with the VET who the coach likes, the players like, and who has won before. He went with a longshot nobody. You just proved my point dummy, he went with the "Madden" choice... in other words... it is so crazy it would only work in Madden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 do you realize how silly this sounds? you are trying to make qb comparisons/decisions based on eye witness accounts from training camp. no gameplans, no preparation - just practice. we're talkin about practice, not the game, practice. when the gameplans start and clemens is prepared for certain looks each week he will be fine. chadwick is done and has been for years. it was evident against the pats in the 06 playoffs and then last year was a disaster. chad peaked in 02 and its time to move on. clemens still hasn't had a chance, and no training camp doesn't count. No I really don't know how silly that sounds. I am not a Pennington advocate. I was really believing Clemens was going to walk in here and win this job easily. I thought he was the Coach's favorite, and was going to be the starting QB this year, and I was very good with it. The Guy is imploding. As Boland said. "He has already failed his mid terms, he better nail the finals." Meaning the per season game. If he continues to play as badly as he has, he might only get one game. So the coaching staffs can start preparing their game plans. They are very different QB's and require structure that will fit their skills. Clemens may be on an 8 day rope if he doesn't start playing better. I don't think Clemens is done for sure, and I badly want him to step up, and show he can be a good QB in the NFL, but he is letting it slip away. He will never be in a better position to become a starting QB then he is in right now It's his third year shyt or git Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelticwizard Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 This is the first year that Chad has had a healthy arm, a good line, a good runner and Coles to throw to since 2002. Few of the people who dwell so intensely on Chad's "limitations" ever get around to mentioning this. This should be a fun year to watch Chad & The Jets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 This is the first year that Chad has had a healthy arm, a good line, a good runner and Coles to throw to since 2002. Few of the people who dwell so intensely on Chad's "limitations" ever get around to mentioning this. This should be a fun year to watch Chad & The Jets! I heard that same stuff just last year. Well maybe not the good line stuff, but there was endless talk about how his arm is finally healed, has a legit starting RB again, and has two good, healthy WR's and a TE with great hands. And we were 1-7 with Pennington blowing half those losses with 2nd-half (if not 4th quarter) picks in close games. So in the past it was mentioned plenty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelticwizard Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Chad's arm was healed last year, witness the 50 yards-in-the-air pass at Cincy. But that one deficiency they had-the Oline-was a beaut, wasn't? Can't pass block, can't run block, then we're surprised that both QBs make errors the few times they have time to throw the ball. Before getting rid of Kendall, who was a good-but-not-great player, the Jets had three NFL caliber linemen out five. And Chad made that work in 2006, all the way to the playoffs. In 2007, the mix changed to two NFL caliber linemen out of five. This combo NOBODY could make work. Ever hear of the story of the straw which broke the camel's back? Kendall was that straw, and we paid for it dearly all year. It's one thing to be a little soft in one area of the game. It is quite another to have a whole segment of your team being in a state of perpetual breakdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 His arm is healed to an extent, but one 50 yard pass where Laveranues Coles blew past the defenders doesn't mean he's got all the arm strength in the world. Chad will only throw the deep ball when the receiver is 10 yards off of the Cornerback because he knows if its close, the Cornerback will catch up and most likely will break up the pass or possibly pick the ball off. The ball is up their longer than any other Quarterback and he still cannot throw a 20-30 yard pass unless its down the sideline. We will never, EVER see Chad Pennington zip a ball down the middle of the field 20-30 yards down the field, something an offense needs in their arsenal to be effective. Once in a while, sure, he'll throw it 20 yards, a nice soft lob, but that is because the safeties have miss played the ball. Sure, he can muster up strength to sling it 40-50 yards down field, but its as slow as syrup and is only done when the receiver is wide open. Therefore, his arsenal is 5-10 yard passes with the occasional 40-50 yard throw downfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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