Jetfan13 Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 healthy and both having career years... just saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joiseyjet Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 healthy and both having career years... just saying J. Vilma & J.Farriorr also....Mangini`s number 1 problem is not using players at the position`s they are best at ,Eric has this thing about switching guys around and trying them at new positions thats why we keep shipping out talent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetfan13 Posted December 23, 2008 Author Share Posted December 23, 2008 J. Vilma & J.Farriorr also....Mangini`s number 1 problem is not using players at the position`s they are best at ,Eric has this thing about switching guys around and trying them at new positions thats why we keep shipping out talent... I agree Chris, but they are both healthy and haven't missed a beat all year, how do you figure that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4HCrew Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Well Chad is the second year past his shoulder injury so is finally healthy. This is the first year Abe has been healthy and playing up to his talent. I am sure his contract demands will skyrocket again. Too bad Calvin Pace and his huge contract have not shown up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetfan13 Posted December 23, 2008 Author Share Posted December 23, 2008 Well Chad is the second year past his shoulder injury so is finally healthy. This is the first year Abe has been healthy and playing up to his talent. I am sure his contract demands will skyrocket again. Too bad Calvin Pace and his huge contract have not shown up Pace actually was doing pretty good till they asked him to start covering TE's..He couldn't cover you Tyson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Who are the leaders of this team ? That question might be one of the biggest issues this team has right now. Favre ? Faneca ? Ellis ? The Jets two biggest leaders last year Vilma and Chad are gone. There is alot wrong with this team right now. It starts at top with the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodWearsAGrayHoodie Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 J. Vilma & J.Farriorr also....Mangini`s number 1 problem is not using players at the position`s they are best at ,Eric has this thing about switching guys around and trying them at new positions thats why we keep shipping out talent... So does his mentor. Nobody probably expects players to versatile and play multiple roles than BB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Pace actually was doing pretty good till they asked him to start covering TE's..He couldn't cover you Tyson Away from Jenkins and Revis Pace has been our best defensive player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 No-one should be shocked by this. Really, I mean J-Abe has always been one of the best pass rushers in the league. When healthy (which has always been his issues) he's a dominant force and although some Jets fans may not have liked him you have to accept he's a great player to have on your team when 100%. Pennington is what he is - Not bad, not great. When put in a good situation (Which he has) he'll win games and beat up on crappy teams. I'm convinced if we'd have had him at QB this year we would have beaten New England at home, Oakland and Seattle. Would he have beaten New England on the road or Tennessee? Probably not but he'd be efficient enough to put up 20 or so points on those crappy teams. He'll crash and burn in the playoffs though, especially if he goes up against Baltimore. But that's always been the story with Pennington - A 10-11 win QB and nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Moses Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 No-one should be shocked by this. Really, I mean J-Abe has always been one of the best pass rushers in the league. When healthy (which has always been his issues) he's a dominant force and although some Jets fans may not have liked him you have to accept he's a great player to have on your team when 100%. I wouldn't call a "pure pass-rusher" a great player. Sacks only really count on 3rd down. You can get a coverage sack on 2nd and 7 but if the QB converts on 3rd and 13 it means nothing. I think the NFL should distinguish sacks on 3rd down vs. garbage time sacks. I think Justin Tuck is a better pass rusher than J-Abe. A great football player was Lawrence Taylor because not only did he sack QB's, he also stopped the run and was good in coverage. He did it all, year in and year out. He just didn't have a few good seasons over a period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Of Bavaria Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Who knows anything anymore? Is it the injury free season or coaching? Not too sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 No-one should be shocked by this. Really, I mean J-Abe has always been one of the best pass rushers in the league. When healthy (which has always been his issues) he's a dominant force and although some Jets fans may not have liked him you have to accept he's a great player to have on your team when 100%. Agreed. Pennington is what he is - Not bad, not great. When put in a good situation (Which he has) he'll win games and beat up on crappy teams. I'm convinced if we'd have had him at QB this year we would have beaten New England at home, Oakland and Seattle. Would he have beaten New England on the road or Tennessee? Probably not but he'd be efficient enough to put up 20 or so points on those crappy teams. He'll crash and burn in the playoffs though, especially if he goes up against Baltimore. But that's always been the story with Pennington - A 10-11 win QB and nothing more. I'm convinced Pennington could have done little about our west coast troubles and we'd be 9-6 at best. Remember that his team beat barely beat Seattle, San Fran and Oakland at home at 1pm EST where they won all 3 games combined by 9 points and averaged less then 20 points a game on offense. imo, this notion that Chad being here means that we'd have won 12 games to beat out NE for the division makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn212 Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Before this year J. Abe played 5 out of 32 games for Atlanta..you kidding me..Everyone with the exception of a few people here who have a "Bro-mance" with Chad wanted Favre....please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Moses Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Who knows anything anymore? Is it the injury free season or coaching? Not too sure. All doubt has been removed from my mind: Herm sucks, he can't coach, his players malinger and the record shows he gets QB's killed because his offensive line is usually a joke. As for Mangini, I think he's better with personel, but his gameplan and playcalling are horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Who are the leaders of this team ? That question might be one of the biggest issues this team has right now. Favre ? Faneca ? Ellis ? The Jets two biggest leaders last year Vilma and Chad are gone. There is alot wrong with this team right now. It starts at top with the coach. Don't know or care who the "leaders"are. it's about production. This is professional sports. This is a job. All this "leadrrship" and "Chemsitry" stuff are things writers make upa fter the fact. If not, point out the bad team with great chemisty, or the champions who hate each other. Pennington is still dinking and dunking his way through 16 games. I'm sorry, as bad as Ffavre has been the last few weeks, there was no point in bringing Pennington back.None. We've scored 388 points with Favre; the Dolphins have scored 321 with Pennington. Next question? And Vilma sucks and sucked for the Saints.We already have Eric barton missing tackles, getting shoved around like a girl ona field trip and getting dragged 4-8 yards by running backs. We need another guy like that for some nebulous concept of leadership? John Abraham is and always will be a filfthy selfish dog, looking out for his next contract. He'll sterp on his privates soon enough. Fault this FO and CS for having an awful defensive gameplan every week. Fault them for not running the ball like crazy with 2 great RBs. But do not start waxing poetic about who is and is not here. The Jints are winning without Osi Umneyimora and nobody over there mentions it. And none of the guys you mentioned as we're missing is half the player he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Moses Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Before this year J. Abe played 5 out of 32 games for Atlanta..you kidding me..Everyone with the exception of a few people here who have a "Bro-mance" with Chad wanted Favre....please I was never a Chad basher but I knew it was time to part company. I'm happy for the guy and I will tip my hat to him if the Phins win on Sunday. I liked the Favre signing, I just think the CS hasn't worked him into the system properly. Fault this FO and CS for having an awful defensive gameplan every week. Fault them for not running the ball like crazy with 2 great RBs. But do not start waxing poetic about who is and is not here. The Jints are winning without Osi Umneyimora and nobody over there mentions it. And none of the guys you mentioned as we're missing is half the player he is. Excellent point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashingjet Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Re: Chad Pennington. http://www.ryanparkersongs.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodWearsAGrayHoodie Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Re: Chad Pennington. http://www.ryanparkersongs.com/ Already been posted. http://www.jetnation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68631 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 I wouldn't call a "pure pass-rusher" a great player. Sacks only really count on 3rd down. You can get a coverage sack on 2nd and 7 but if the QB converts on 3rd and 13 it means nothing. I think the NFL should distinguish sacks on 3rd down vs. garbage time sacks. I think Justin Tuck is a better pass rusher than J-Abe. A great football player was Lawrence Taylor because not only did he sack QB's, he also stopped the run and was good in coverage. He did it all, year in and year out. He just didn't have a few good seasons over a period of time. So he can't be a great football player because he's not as good as LT? You think Justin Tuck is a better pass rusher? Does that mean Abraham isn't a good pass rusher because one guy is better? Tuck has way less sacks this year despite the fact that the Giants are always up and teams often have to pass and he can pin his ears back. Which one is better? Who cares? They are both great. Abraham has a whole ****load of forced fumbles. At least 4 last year. I remember him having a decent number of passes defended last year too. Do those count for something or are they "garbage time"? Changing a 2 and 7 to a 3 and 13 is meaningless? Pretty silly if you ask me. He basically single handedly won their first game in '06 against Carolina. You may not think a "pure pass rusher" is a great player, but the salary they are paid tells me that GMs throughout the NFL disagree. Maybe they are not complete, but they are still great. The Jets were right to ship Abraham out. He has a history of abdominal problems and those do not traditionally heal well. I believe he has eight surgeries for the condition over his career. They got a good pick (1st round Mangold) saved a ton of money and don't have to worry about JAbe's health. That does not diminish the fact that Abraham is a game changing defensive player and the Jets don't have one. Before this year J. Abe played 5 out of 32 games for Atlanta..you kidding me..Everyone with the exception of a few people here who have a "Bro-mance" with Chad wanted Favre....please Don't let facts get in the way. He started all 16 last year and played in half the games in '06. He had 14 sacks as a Falcon coming into this season. How many Jets had 14 sacks over the '06-'07 seasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bergen Jet Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Local sports talk radio was ripping into Abraham and the fact that he is a one trick pony yesterday. Somebody called saying that it is ridiculous that Abe wasn't selected to the pro-bowl and they talked about how he is a liability outside of obvious passing situations and how he is not used outside of that role nearly as much as everybody who was selected. Jet fans seem to forget that he was virtually heartless when he played here and how he was a liability on the field anytime it wasn't a passing play. They also forget that he missed half of his first season with the Falcons so he didn't suddenly get healthy when he left this organization. When Abe is healthy and when he decides to play he can wreak havock with the best of them. He has a very impressive 16.5 sacks in 15 games... or 5.5 sacks in the 11 games where he didn't have multiple sacks in one game. Even when healthy he seems to show up big or be nowhere to be found. I don't miss Abe at all. Love or hate Chad the man had heart. Something Abe never had as a member of Gang Green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Well Chad is the second year past his shoulder injury so is finally healthy. This is the first year Abe has been healthy and playing up to his talent. I am sure his contract demands will skyrocket again. Too bad Calvin Pace and his huge contract have not shown up Pace has been used incompetently all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Sutton/Mangini has Pace on a leash. Totally misused. He's a good player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Pace has been used incompetently all season. Sutton/Mangini has Pace on a leash. Totally misused. He's a good player. Pace is good. He's not great. He's also no pass rusher. I've seen him get completely stoned by reject RTs all season. Maybe they should use him differently, but the fact is they don't have an LB that could cover a refrigerator, so it's not shock he has to try it sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 I wouldn't call a "pure pass-rusher" a great player. Sacks only really count on 3rd down. You can get a coverage sack on 2nd and 7 but if the QB converts on 3rd and 13 it means nothing. I think the NFL should distinguish sacks on 3rd down vs. garbage time sacks. I think Justin Tuck is a better pass rusher than J-Abe. A great football player was Lawrence Taylor because not only did he sack QB's, he also stopped the run and was good in coverage. He did it all, year in and year out. He just didn't have a few good seasons over a period of time. Actually yes it does make him a great player. When you have a relentless pass rusher who is putting pressure on the QB EVERY SINGLE TIME he drops back to throw which is what Abraham does it makes the defense better in every way. Also don't give me this BS about J-Abe being a liability against the run. I've seen a lot of the Falcons this season and he's been very good in thaty area. Sure he sells out to get the QB sometimes but the risk is more than worth the reward. It is a complete joke that he didn't make the pro-bowl, he should be in the running for DPOY, he's been that good. I would love more than anything to have a John Abraham on this team. Yeah he gets hurt too often but when healthy he is a nightmare for opposing teams to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Pace is good. He's not great. He's also no pass rusher. I've seen him get completely stoned by reject RTs all season. Maybe they should use him differently, but the fact is they don't have an LB that could cover a refrigerator, so it's not shock he has to try it sometimes. Almost every time I saw him blitz over the last two games he's been getting pressure. That amounts to about 8 times. He is a good pass rusher, not a great one by any means but he can get to the QB. He doesn't blitz nearly enough IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Moses Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 So he can't be a great football player because he's not as good as LT? You think Justin Tuck is a better pass rusher? Does that mean Abraham isn't a good pass rusher because one guy is better? Tuck has way less sacks this year despite the fact that the Giants are always up and teams often have to pass and he can pin his ears back. Which one is better? Who cares? They are both great. Tuck has heart, Abe doesn't. Tuck was throwing up Sunday night, playing with the flu against the Panthers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Moses Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 I would love more than anything to have a John Abraham on this team. Yeah he gets hurt too often but when healthy he is a nightmare for opposing teams to deal with. He was on this team. How many playoff games did he participate in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimfire Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Actually yes it does make him a great player. When you have a relentless pass rusher who is putting pressure on the QB EVERY SINGLE TIME he drops back to throw which is what Abraham does it makes the defense better in every way. Also don't give me this BS about J-Abe being a liability against the run. I've seen a lot of the Falcons this season and he's been very good in thaty area. Sure he sells out to get the QB sometimes but the risk is more than worth the reward. It is a complete joke that he didn't make the pro-bowl, he should be in the running for DPOY, he's been that good. I would love more than anything to have a John Abraham on this team. Yeah he gets hurt too often but when healthy he is a nightmare for opposing teams to deal with. I MISS HIM. HE WAS A GAME ENDER! NOT SO SURE ABOUT PLAYING IN THIS SCHEME THOUGH. HES DEF A 4 3 END Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 He was on this team. How many playoff games did he participate in? Not sure but I know he'll be playing one more than we will this season at the very least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Moses Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Not sure but I know he'll be playing one more than we will this season at the very least. I look forward to watching it, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.