Vinny Testaverde questions

[Wayne "thirddown" Chrebet]

2 questions

Where do you rank him on the all time jets QB (obviously behind Broadway Joe)?

I rank him number 2 all time even though he never won a superbowl for us he was 30 minutes away from beating denver. less we forget he came off the couch and qb'd again for us for a few games.

Do you think at somepoint he could be a QB coach or assistant coach or any part or any part of the jets organization in the future?

[nycdan]

2 questions

Where do you rank him on the all time jets QB (obviously behind Broadway Joe)?

I rank him number 2 all time even though he never won a superbowl for us he was 30 minutes away from beating denver. less we forget he came off the couch and qb'd again for us for a few games.

Do you think at somepoint he could be a QB coach or assistant coach or any part or any part of the jets organization in the future?

If anything happens to cause Sanchez to miss a game, I think he'd have a part in the organization.....as our backup QB.

[JoeWillie]

2 questions

Where do you rank him on the all time jets QB (obviously behind Broadway Joe)?

I rank him number 2 all time even though he never won a superbowl for us he was 30 minutes away from beating denver. less we forget he came off the couch and qb'd again for us for a few games.

Do you think at somepoint he could be a QB coach or assistant coach or any part or any part of the jets organization in the future?

1. Namath

2. Testaverde

3. Todd

4. Pennington

5. O'Brien

I'll rank Vinny #2 even though he only played a few years as a Jet. He did get us to an AFC Championship Game and he did break Namath's TD's in a season record, even though Namath's number came in a period where it was much tougher to throw.

I put Todd at #3, ahead of O'Brien. Even though he is remembered for the AJ Duhe/Miami debacle, he was actually a pretty good QB for us after Namath. He was a gutsy kid, played hurt all the time, and got us to an AFC Championship Game. He actually led us to some pretty exciting victories in the early 80's. The '81 Miami game at Shea in which he played with broken ribs and he hit Jerome Barkum with time running out with 1st place on the line stands out.

Chadwick gets #4. Before he hurt his arm, he was pretty darn good and even led us to some pretty good wins and some postseasons. Will never get the credit from Jets fans that he deserves.

I'll put O'Brien 5th. Good quarterback who had some great passing games in the mid to late 80's, but got shell shocked behind a faulty offensive line for a few years in a row that probably ruined him as a QB. Didn't have Todd's toughness.

I did not rank Sanchez, simply because there is not enough data at this point, but he could be up there with JoeWillie by the time he's through. He has the brains, the toughness, the dedication, and the arm if he can stay healthy.

[jgb]

1. Namath

2. Testaverde

3. Todd

4. Pennington

5. O'Brien

not necessarily disagreeing but it's sad that this is a reasonable list for a founding AFL franchise

[NYJ37/12]

1. Namath

2. O'Brien

3. Pennington

4. Testaverde

5. Favre

Hopefully Sanchez takes the number 1 spot in the near future.

[JustInFudge]

I'd sadly say he's number #2

O'Brien was better than Pennyboy. Too young to remember Todd, but pops always liked him and I met him when I was 3 years old.

Boomer and Favre I wont even recognize as Jets because they disgust me.

Unfortunately, we have a sad history of QB's.

[Integrity28]

I'd put him at #2.

Mostly because he just had that something that made fans like him. I like him. He got it done.

And while Vinny was 30 minutes from beating Denver for a trip to the SB... Sanchez was 30 minutes from beating the Colts for a trip to the SB. Not bad for a rookie.

[bitonti]

here's a question... was Vinny Testaverde a "bust?"

im still trying to wrap my head around this

think about the team that drafted him... #1 overall. He was awful in Tampa.

I dont think a guy with 46k passing yards and played for almost 22 seasons can really be called a "failure" but did he live up to his draft selection? did his dissapoint his team?

FWIW This is why I'm loathe to call any1 a bust until they retire. VG could be awful with the Jets, sign a contract with the Pats and become awesome. It happens all the time. It happened with Vinny T.

[jason423]

I think he is the clear number 2. I know he was only here as a starter from 1998 thru 2001, and missed one year due to injury, bur the offenses he ran were far better than the offenses of the other candidates overall. I though the 2001 change in offensive philosophy hurt him as well.

I wrote something awhile back on ranking the Jets teams, QBs, etc...The ranking basically went Namath, Vinny, O'Brien, Todd, Chad. Todd's offenses graded out slightly better than O'Brien's and I think that was simply a question of how you value the one great team Todd played on. Outside of the strike shortened season Todd was well below average, but that one year really inflates his performance. O'Brien was consistently pretty average which is why I ranked him higher. Chad came in fifth despite never having run anything more than an average offense at all in his career. Thats a sign of how bad our QB position is to have him ranked 5th. The worst QB of those who got to start more than a year was Boomer Esiason, whose offenses were just terrible.

http://www.nyjetscap.com/jetsefficiency.html

[shawn306]

I would probably put Vinny 4th behind Namath, O'Brien, Todd.

Tood was headcase. The years that he was good. 81-82 all his weapons were in place and he played behind a very good OL.

O'Brien may not have gotten the Jets to an AFC Title game but his best years were with an OL that wasn't really good.

[jgb]

here's a question... was Vinny Testaverde a "bust?"

im still trying to wrap my head around this

think about the team that drafted him... #1 overall. He was awful in Tampa.

I dont think a guy with 46k passing yards and played for almost 22 seasons can really be called a "failure" but did he live up to his draft selection? did his dissapoint his team?

FWIW This is why I'm loathe to call any1 a bust until they retire. VG could be awful with the Jets, sign a contract with the Pats and become awesome. It happens all the time. It happened with Vinny T.

to apply the same term to the ryan leafs of the world and to vinny T is ridiculous. maybe we need to invent degrees of bust:

Underachiever: productive career but less productive than his draft selection (not even a true "bust")

1st degree bust: Any non-first rounder who fails miserably (can't be a worse bust because team investment relatively low)

2nd degree bust: First rounder, never cracks starting lineup but serves as adequate role player

3rd degree bust: First rounder, out of football before rookie contract length or top 10 pick that is nothing more than a role player

4th degree bust: Top 10 pick, out of football before rookie contract length (5-6 years)

Epic Bust: top 10 pick; out of football before rookie contract length; followed by arrest/drug addiction/imprisonment

[GodWearsAGrayHoodie]

5. Favre

I am curisous how Favre got the #5 spot.

IMHO, if you are rating all the QBs that have ever donned a Jets uniform on how they are as an overall QB, including in their accomplishments elsewhere than Favre gets the number #1 spot.

However, if you are rating them solely on what they did as a Jet he shouldn't even be on the list. He really didn't do much in his one season with the team, before demanding he be let out of his 2 year contract halfway thru it costing the Jets an additional draft pick (to avoid costing them an additional three picks.)

[Savage69]

I am curious how Favre got the #5 spot.

IMHO, if you are rating all the QBs that have ever donned a Jets uniform on how they are as an overall QB, including in their accomplishments elsewhere than Favre gets the number #1 spot.

However, if you are rating them solely on what they did as a Jet he shouldn't even be on the list. He really didn't do much in his one season with the team, before demanding he be let out of his 2 year contract halfway thru it costing the Jets an additional draft pick (to avoid costing them an additional three picks.)

Then Boomer has to rise up because he came within a minute of beating Montana's 49ers in the Bowl.. Plus he a 4 time pro bowler and a 1 time All Pro..

[Scott Dierking]

Vinny had one excellent year (1998) as a Jet qb, and let's face it, the rest were very mediocre.

As such, he can not move ahead of types like Namath, O'Brien, Pennington, Todd.

He would battle for a spot with Ryan and Robinson. His excellent '98 helps him though.

[NYJ37/12]

I am curisous how Favre got the #5 spot.

IMHO, if you are rating all the QBs that have ever donned a Jets uniform on how they are as an overall QB, including in their accomplishments elsewhere than Favre gets the number #1 spot.

However, if you are rating them solely on what they did as a Jet he shouldn't even be on the list. He really didn't do much in his one season with the team, before demanding he be let out of his 2 year contract halfway thru it costing the Jets an additional draft pick (to avoid costing them an additional three picks.)

I like him.

six td's in one game gets you on the list.

[JoeWillie]

not necessarily disagreeing but it's sad that this is a reasonable list for a founding AFL franchise

No argument here.

[JoeWillie]

I would probably put Vinny 4th behind Namath, O'Brien, Todd.

Tood was headcase. The years that he was good. 81-82 all his weapons were in place and he played behind a very good OL.

O'Brien may not have gotten the Jets to an AFC Title game but his best years were with an OL that wasn't really good.

O'Brien played on some talented teams that never really did challenge in the playoffs.

Todd played on some miserable teams in the late 70's before finally getting some talent around him in '81.

It's close.

Neither player was anything special in my book, which is an indictment of the Jets quarterbacking position from 1977 through 1998. O'Brien had some more productive singular games and was probably more talented at the end of the day, but I did admire Todd's physical toughness and thought he was the better leader.

In my opinion, neither one belongs in the Ring of Honor, though.

[bitonti]

to apply the same term to the ryan leafs of the world and to vinny T is ridiculous. maybe we need to invent degrees of bust:

Underachiever: productive career but less productive than his draft selection (not even a true "bust")

1st degree bust: Any non-first rounder who fails miserably (can't be a worse bust because team investment relatively low)

2nd degree bust: First rounder, never cracks starting lineup but serves as adequate role player

3rd degree bust: First rounder, out of football before rookie contract length or top 10 pick that is nothing more than a role player

4th degree bust: Top 10 pick, out of football before rookie contract length (5-6 years)

Epic Bust: top 10 pick; out of football before rookie contract length; followed by arrest/drug addiction/imprisonment

that's an interesting list, but where does Vinny T fit in?

I've been struggling with the definition of a "bust" for a while, i think you can't apply the label until the guy retires. And it should only be used in extreme, Demitrius Underwood type circumstances.

Everyone's favorite example is DRob. no the dude never became Warren Sapp but he started about 80 games for the NYJ... several in the playoffs. He started day 1 because of the Josh Evans suspension. He had a knee condition and eventually his career ended early. Does all that add up to a "bust" i don't know. A truer bust might be Jonathan Sullivan, picked 2 slots later who was out of football in about 2 seasons.

[jason423]

that's an interesting list, but where does Vinny T fit in?

I've been struggling with the definition of a "bust" for a while, i think you can't apply the label until the guy retires. And it should only be used in extreme, Demitrius Underwood type circumstances.

Everyone's favorite example is DRob. no the dude never became Warren Sapp but he started about 80 games for the NYJ... several in the playoffs. He started day 1 because of the Josh Evans suspension. He had a knee condition and eventually his career ended early. Does all that add up to a "bust" i don't know. A truer bust might be Jonathan Sullivan, picked 2 slots later who was out of football in about 2 seasons.

I agree its pretty hard to do. Clearly Vinny was a bust for Tampa and disappointing as a number 1 pick, but he ended up having a very competent career. I do think of all the positions in the NFL, though, QB is one of the only ones where you can turn around the bust label. I dont know if its because its the one position where players rely as much on brains as on skill or what, but it seems to be a position where players learn it more as the game goes on. I'm almost always of the mindset that you should take a 2nd or 3rd chance on a 1st round QB, unless its a guy like Russell.

As for other first rounders I think the guys pretty much will only be considered complete busts when they dont get past their rookie contract + 1 year (I say the one year because teams might take a minimum salary 1 year shot on a guy after he is cut).

[GodWearsAGrayHoodie]

I've been struggling with the definition of a "bust" for a while, i think you can't apply the label until the guy retires.

I disagree. I tend to think of bust or steals in terms of a trade of a draft not a career.

A bust is where the player did give the team anything close to what they paid in terms of draft pick, trade and salary. A steal is someone where you got a whole lot more.

If JaMarcus Russel get another shot, turns is life around and becomes a 5 time superbowl MVP for another team -- he will still be a bust as far as the Raiders are concerned.

Likewise, Randy Moss is both a steal (for NEP) and a bust (Oakland).

Matt Cassel could go on to break Blanda's record by throwing 43 ints and he will still be a great draft pick by NE. But that would make him a bust of a trade for the chiefs.

[jgb]

that's an interesting list, but where does Vinny T fit in?

I've been struggling with the definition of a "bust" for a while, i think you can't apply the label until the guy retires. And it should only be used in extreme, Demitrius Underwood type circumstances.

Everyone's favorite example is DRob. no the dude never became Warren Sapp but he started about 80 games for the NYJ... several in the playoffs. He started day 1 because of the Josh Evans suspension. He had a knee condition and eventually his career ended early. Does all that add up to a "bust" i don't know. A truer bust might be Jonathan Sullivan, picked 2 slots later who was out of football in about 2 seasons.

underachiever, at worst. no way he breaks into the "bust" category.

[bobbyjet69]

Nameth

Obrien

Vinny

Todd

Penny