Re-Envisioning Revis and His Role In Rex's Defense

[Darth Vader]

The Jets have to do something radical to change the way that other teams will continue to "game" our defense and "out-scheme" our defensive scheme by [too-easily] game-planning around our best players while attacking our greatest weakness. The defense will likely continue to hemorrhage because of injuries several tiers down the safety depth chart that is to begin with untalented, and because "the book is out on Rex's schemes".

On this last point, in reality, the question really remains unresolved whether Rex just doesn't have the horses and his scheme is covering up the weaknesses in personnel or vice-versa, whether the scheme is exposing weaknesses in talent. This is a question we don't know. But I guarantee you Rex knows the answer. He has recently put the onus on the players and fundamentals. Kansas City may not be a team that can capitalize but most any other top tier team can, has, could -- or will.

It's not just coaching, scheme, and team defense we're talking about. We're also seeing a disturbing trend with the franchise's most talented player on defense in 25 years -- maybe ever. With scouting and game-prep at historically high levels and with technology (and probably proprietary software we've never heard of) involved in the game more than ever, savvy coaches have been able to make in-season and season-to-season adjustments for even the greatest players. Even Hall-of-fame caliber talents like Darrelle Revis.

Witness for example what a coach like BB was able to do [in-season] this year with his personnel to game-plan around not just Revis, but Cromartie shutting down Moss and their previously designed clear-out, perimeter passing game, featuring Moss deep and perimeter and Welker/Faulk/TE underneath. BB has completely retooled and changed philosophy in the passing game because he was at a competitive disadvantage. To turn things to his advantage, he had take advantage of the Jets greatest weakness: the middle of the field against our safeties, nickels, and linebackers in coverage.

Seemingly all too easy.

And it is too easy to take out of the game a cornerback as dominant as Revis has been over the past few years, and into last year's playoffs.

Last year, teams actually challenged Revis, and he was a close second in NFL DMVP. This year -- actually since the AFCCG vs Manning -- while they've challenged an injured Revis, the adjustments are in. Teams go to three wide, force a NB or LB or S to cover a Slot WR, TE, or RB, and there is almost no reason to pass the ball where Darelle Revis is.

Why do it?

They won't, unless its an ambush-type play, take-em-by-surprise.

So, what we have is our best player (when healthy - and its not close), the potential best defensive player in franchise history, a player with Hall-Of-Fame talent - including speed, physicality, ball-skills, ambition and acumen, that is never around the play (or not nearly enough) unless it's run to his side.

Revis Island gets a little lonely without any interceptions to keep him company. [Revis has ZERO ints this year...]

What to do? Here's the idea. Don't break it out until it is necessary, but when it is, break it out in full force. Don't give BB any chance to game plan for this this year. Get through the WC round without it, and then let Hell in the form of REVIS at Safety break loose.

Think about it: at times, a savvy offense can just phase Revis out of the game by shifting the play where he isn't. This is similar to what happens when running say at John Abraham.

There are reasons for this. Some positions in football function cybernetically - the effectiveness is in the power of tandems, or trios. In other cases, in whole sub-units (Secondary/LBs/DL). In all cases, there is an organic interrelationship between derivatives of sub-units (the-coverage-sack; the hurry-and-forced-interception; shut down a run game, force them to pass, etc).

Te Jets thought that we had addressed the above technical talk with two names: Cromartie and Wilson. Cromartie was to be "the guy they had to throw to at their own risk bc they knew they weren't throwing to Revis". And Wilson was to be "the guy who could cover Garcon". None of that really panned out. And other QBs are still avoiding Revis when he is healthy.

Today's QB and passing game is so savvy that if you can't generate pocket pressure (we can't) coverage will eventually break down somewhere.

At this point, Revis's HOF career is going to be wasted, lampooned to the perimeter, away from the play, marooned on Revis Island of his own creation.

That is the future, because you can't build a defense - or even a dominant secondary - with just one dominant CB. It is IMPOSSIBLE.

But playing Revis at safety would allow him much greater freedom to insinuate himself into the play, to control the defense (safety in Rex's scheme is the QB of the D), and dominate. Avoid being phased out. Force QBs to account for you on every play.

What is he doing? Is he playing CB, NB? Blitzing? Centerfield?

Revis in centerfield is a natural evolution. Imagine him overtop and Cromartie underneath in man-under on Bowe or Wallace or Calvin J or Andre or a TE in goalline? He'd have a MUCH greater impact on every play and every game. Otherwise, he's just wasting away out there -- way out there opposite the direction of the play. And this will continue.

He's big enough, physical enough, a great tackler, smart enough, fast enough to be Rex's Ed Reed. He's also, essecntially another CB out there when needed. Maybe not Ronnie Lott but IMO he should be making a Ronnie Lott transition from CB to FS. This would also allow Wilson to play his natural outside CB position. Rex must have learned by now what OCs are doing.

This is a natural move as any.

----------Pool-----Revis-----------

Cromartie-----Wilson/Coleman/Cole-

Pace----Scott----Harris--BT/Taylor

-------Devito---BO---Ellis----------

Thoughts?

[SenorGato]

TLDR but as I understand it it's about Revis to safety...the idea really isn't terrible because it'd be a sick changeup and Revis is good enough to do that kind of stuff with...problem is having the balls to do it with good faith.

[Darth Vader]

TLDR but as I understand it it's about Revis to safety...the idea really isn't terrible because it'd be a sick changeup and Revis is good enough to do that kind of stuff with...problem is having the balls to do it with good faith.

especially to bust out on Brady/BB in the divisional round without any "tape" on it.

[SenorGato]

especially to bust out on Brady/BB in the divisional round without any "tape" on it.

Also, relying on Wilson to cover someone at CB on the outside right now is not a good idea. It'd negate the whole rogue Revis thing since someone would have to help Wilson.

[Darth Vader]

Also, relying on Wilson to cover someone at CB on the outside right now is not a good idea. It'd negate the whole rogue Revis thing since someone would have to help Wilson.

start him in buffalo and see what he does. he has the talent. but regardless, u dont have to play him at #2. You have Coleman, Lowery, Cole, as well.

And baiting a QB to throw at any four of those guys with Revis on top (or mixed in in ways that are not clear,) and facing the ball, is a recipe for baiting interceptions. And it's better than what is going on right now.

[jason423]

From a financial standpoint the Jets front office would go ballistic if they ever made this decision as a long term thing. Short term it could work against a team like the Chiefs who only use 1 WR for the most part (though they could probably get the same result just playing him at corner in that game) or a team like the Texans where you could maybe bait Schaub into throwing at AJ double covered by Cro and Revis. I think against a team like NE it would do nothing. They just spread the Jets out and pinpoint the mismatch which would be Wilson anywhere on the field at this stage. Id question if Revis could be Ed Reed as well. One thing is I dont think we have seen alot of route jumping from Revis. Cro has probably shown more of that in his career. There is no guarantee that Revis essentially playing a zone is going to get those breaks that lead to a pick. His skillset is staying with a guy and playing as a receiver. I also question if he can do the things with the football that Reed used to do. The one area of his game that is a weakness (if you want to even call it that) is he has never been a deadly threat once the ball is in his hands. Reed is just ridiculous in the open field. Revis isnt. Cromartie has been far more dangerous with the ball in his hands.

I think the team is simply realizing the problem of building a defense from the outside in. It doesnt work. Never has and likely never will. Everyone should have known the treatment Revis would have gotten this year and it was probably the perfect time to try to upgrade the front 7 in some manner. Instead they traded for another cornerback and drafted a third, but hindsight is 20/20 and they really thought the scheme would work as well as it did last season.

[LionelRichie]

why such a long post when it's clearly Schottenheimer's fault?

[Darth Vader]

From a financial standpoint the Jets front office would go ballistic if they ever made this decision as a long term thing. Short term it could work against a team like the Chiefs who only use 1 WR for the most part (though they could probably get the same result just playing him at corner in that game) or a team like the Texans where you could maybe bait Schaub into throwing at AJ double covered by Cro and Revis. I think against a team like NE it would do nothing. They just spread the Jets out and pinpoint the mismatch which would be Wilson anywhere on the field at this stage. Id question if Revis could be Ed Reed as well. One thing is I dont think we have seen alot of route jumping from Revis. Cro has probably shown more of that in his career. There is no guarantee that Revis essentially playing a zone is going to get those breaks that lead to a pick. His skillset is staying with a guy and playing as a receiver. I also question if he can do the things with the football that Reed used to do. The one area of his game that is a weakness (if you want to even call it that) is he has never been a deadly threat once the ball is in his hands. Reed is just ridiculous in the open field. Revis isnt. Cromartie has been far more dangerous with the ball in his hands.

I think the team is simply realizing the problem of building a defense from the outside in. It doesnt work. Never has and likely never will. Everyone should have known the treatment Revis would have gotten this year and it was probably the perfect time to try to upgrade the front 7 in some manner. Instead they traded for another cornerback and drafted a third, but hindsight is 20/20 and they really thought the scheme would work as well as it did last season.

i kind of think the opposite in terms of usefulness vs KC and NE. I don't think there's any need for it there. But against NE, they'd spread the field and Welker would beat Revis hands down regardless. Revis is a good CB, but he's not good enough to defend Welker's quickness and the NE schemes by playing man up. That was kind of proven last time. The Jets have no answer.

also, i am not that savvy on contracts. but Ed Reed signed a 6 year 40 mill contract in Rexs D in 2006/7. Revis signed a 7 year 55 million contract with 25/6 guaranteed in 2010. Why would the FO sh*t a brick?

Yeah, he'd have to hit and get hit more, but at this point -- there is no ROI on this investment unless something changes.

Shutting down one side of the field is tantamount to shutting Revis in the lockerroom.

Creative thinking is OK, here. I hear you on the open-field moves and jukes, but the kid was a good punt returner at Pitt (ok not Ed Reed in open space), and in Rex's scheme, the FS doesnt have to be Ronnie Lott either.

That's important.

[pfilippone]

The Jets have to do something radical to change the way that other teams will continue to "game" our defense and "out-scheme" our defensive scheme by [too-easily] game-planning around our best players while attacking our greatest weakness. ...Thoughts?

I too was thinking that making Revis simply take out the other team's #1 WR is not using his talents in the best way. Most good NFL teams can easily give up their #1 WR and go to their #2 WR, TE, etc and be successful.

I agree that we are not going to go far in the playoffs if the defense continues to play as it has this year. It puts too much pressure on our offense to score a lot of points (witness the CHI game). I just don't see the coaching staff making a radical change like the one you propose. They are going to trust that what they have now will be sufficient once they "fix the fundamentals" in the next 2 weeks. Rex & Co. really have to motivate the defense to over achieve (ala BB). I dont know about you, but just thinking about the total a$$ kicking we got by the Pats is enough to make me want to run through a brick wall for this team.

[4HCrew]

From a financial standpoint the Jets front office would go ballistic if they ever made this decision as a long term thing. Short term it could work against a team like the Chiefs who only use 1 WR for the most part (though they could probably get the same result just playing him at corner in that game) or a team like the Texans where you could maybe bait Schaub into throwing at AJ double covered by Cro and Revis. I think against a team like NE it would do nothing. They just spread the Jets out and pinpoint the mismatch which would be Wilson anywhere on the field at this stage. Id question if Revis could be Ed Reed as well. One thing is I dont think we have seen alot of route jumping from Revis. Cro has probably shown more of that in his career. There is no guarantee that Revis essentially playing a zone is going to get those breaks that lead to a pick. His skillset is staying with a guy and playing as a receiver. I also question if he can do the things with the football that Reed used to do. The one area of his game that is a weakness (if you want to even call it that) is he has never been a deadly threat once the ball is in his hands. Reed is just ridiculous in the open field. Revis isnt. Cromartie has been far more dangerous with the ball in his hands.

I think the team is simply realizing the problem of building a defense from the outside in. It doesnt work. Never has and likely never will. Everyone should have known the treatment Revis would have gotten this year and it was probably the perfect time to try to upgrade the front 7 in some manner. Instead they traded for another cornerback and drafted a third, but hindsight is 20/20 and they really thought the scheme would work as well as it did last season.

+1 excellent post Jason and I could not agree more. Players like Ed Reed and Polamalu are rare and have certain skill sets that I do not think Darrelle Revis brings to the table. Not to discredit Revis, as he is one of the best corners in the game, but he is not known to be super explosive after a pick. Just watch Cromartie when he gets his hand on the ball, he is as dynamic as they come.

I think the Jets took some chances on defense and they did not pan out. Rex's defense relies on pressure up front and that never worked out for a variety of reasons (losing Jenkins a big blow). Gang Green must work to beef up their front line in order to take some pressure off of the secondary.

[jason423]

also, i am not that savvy on contracts. but Ed Reed signed a 6 year 40 mill contract in Rexs D in 2006/7. Revis signed a 7 year 55 million contract with 25/6 guaranteed in 2010. Why would the FO sh*t a brick?

The FO views Revis deal as 4/46M since the 7/55 is only hit if he holds out of camp and then decides to play on low base salaries after that. Hes basically the highest paid corner in the NFL. The highest paid Safety is right around 8 million per year. So the Jets would have put themselves in a spot where they are paying over 11 million a year for a Safety and now if they want to go and sign an above average corner, but not top 10, they will be spending at least another 8.5M per season. Overall that is a crippler for a salary structure. The other issue would be Revis' take on it after a year or two. Once he begins playing exclusively at Safety tag numbers change to that of a safety and his free agency values drops to that of a safety. Even if he proved to be the best in the game he would be taking a major pay cut when his next deal comes up.

[bitonti]

if the Jets had Kerry Rhodes or a safety like KR they wouldn't need to move their best player to Free Safety. this all goes back to that decision. the Jets overload blitzes are being combatted with Max protect... so rex goes coverage... but uh-oh there's a problem they don't have any safeties who can cover.

the front 7 concerns are over blown. they actually have 5 more sacks this year than last year with 1 game to go. and 2 safeties. Yes they could use a dominant pass rusher but who couldn't? I see a bigger problem with the safeties, who right now might actually be the worst in the entire NFL. there are 3 and 4 win teams with better safeties than the Jets.

[CTM]

Last year they designed thier defene to funnel balls towards revis, who was completely locking down the opposing teams best option. I don't see that kind of willingness this year, which tells me Rex does't think Revis is Revis either. Also, anecdotatedly, I'd say we had way more free rushers last season giving the reast of the subpar secondary less time to stick with thier men.

[DMaynard]

Last year they designed thier defene to funnel balls towards revis, who was completely locking down the opposing teams best option. I don't see that kind of willingness this year, which tells me Rex does't think Revis is Revis either. Also, anecdotatedly, I'd say we had way more free rushers last season giving the reast of the subpar secondary less time to stick with thier men.

I am not sure if I buy that. Going into 2009 Revis was already considered a top CB in the league, but I give rex credit for seeing that he was on the verge of being extra special. So he had Revis always take the other team's #1 WR where Mangini had him primarily playing the left side. Teams challenged him all year and Revis shut everyone down and became a GOD.

This thread raises an interesting point. At what point is a shutdown CB "too good"? Even Dieon Sanders got thrown at becuase he gambled a lot, but then he made big interceptions. Now teams just avoid Revis and their #1 WR and tear up the rest of the jets secondary. I don't think there is anything Rex can do to "funnel" the action back to Revis. Revis has too much of a rep now.

I don't know if I would move him to safety full time. But doing it on occaision would certainly give the opposing offenses something to think about. And I think revis has the skills to make an excellent free safety. He is certainly not the hitter that Lott was, but he is an excellent tackler and much faster than Lott.

This kind of reminds me of the Dallas Cowboys back in the early 70s. They had a great free safety in Mel Renfro, who had world class speed and was in his prime. But they were weak at CB. So they moved him to CB and he became a great one there. You can argue whether Renfro was a better FS or CB, but it helped the team as they went on to win 2 SBs.

[slats]

Moving Revis from CB to safety will just serve to leave a better player open.

If this solution is just supposed to be a short term fix this season -like having Rocky fight southpaw for a few rounds- then I get it. Wouldn't agree, but I get it. But the idea of moving him full time is not a good one.

CB's are more valuable than safeties, which is why they're drafted higher and paid more - and Revis is possibly the best in the game. It would be like moving D'Brick to guard because the other team is putting their best pass rusher on the other side, anyway. It's a detrimental reactionary move.

The Jets underestimated the loss that Rhodes would be, then they lost two bodies in the middle in Jenkins and Pitoitua which really hurt their DL. Add in the fact that Cromartie has not been CB 1A, and that Wilson still has a ways to go, and that the safeties they have've been banged up, and there you have the problems on the Jets' dee. The solution is not moving your best player out of position to a less important position, the solution is propping up the rest of the group. If the Jets can somehow retain Holmes and Edwards for next season, the draft will lean heavily towards the defensive side of the ball next year - as will the FA pickups. They'll get Pitoitua back, if not Jenkins. A safety will be a higher priority, rather than trying to fill it with a Pool-caliber player. They need a real pass rusher. The scheme isn't getting it done.

[JiFtheOracle]

From a financial standpoint the Jets front office would go ballistic if they ever made this decision as a long term thing. Short term it could work against a team like the Chiefs who only use 1 WR for the most part (though they could probably get the same result just playing him at corner in that game) or a team like the Texans where you could maybe bait Schaub into throwing at AJ double covered by Cro and Revis. I think against a team like NE it would do nothing. They just spread the Jets out and pinpoint the mismatch which would be Wilson anywhere on the field at this stage. Id question if Revis could be Ed Reed as well. One thing is I dont think we have seen alot of route jumping from Revis. Cro has probably shown more of that in his career. There is no guarantee that Revis essentially playing a zone is going to get those breaks that lead to a pick. His skillset is staying with a guy and playing as a receiver. I also question if he can do the things with the football that Reed used to do. The one area of his game that is a weakness (if you want to even call it that) is he has never been a deadly threat once the ball is in his hands. Reed is just ridiculous in the open field. Revis isnt. Cromartie has been far more dangerous with the ball in his hands.

I think the team is simply realizing the problem of building a defense from the outside in. It doesnt work. Never has and likely never will. Everyone should have known the treatment Revis would have gotten this year and it was probably the perfect time to try to upgrade the front 7 in some manner. Instead they traded for another cornerback and drafted a third, but hindsight is 20/20 and they really thought the scheme would work as well as it did last season.

My mantra, you win and lose game at the LOS and you do that by building inside out. Build good lines, you have a consistently competitive team. I'm shocked quite honestly that Rex has basically ignored our Dline. IMO its the key to running the D he likes to run...or maybe he just felt he could do it with vets and UDFA's...who knows.

All I know is, it should be our primary focus this offseason. As it should have been in 09.

[Matt39]

My mantra, you win and lose game at the LOS and you do that by building inside out. Build good lines, you have a consistently competitive team. I'm shocked quite honestly that Rex has basically ignored our Dline. IMO its the key to running the D he likes to run...or maybe he just felt he could do it with vets and UDFA's...who knows.

All I know is, it should be our primary focus this offseason. As it should have been in 09.

Our interior d line has been fine. Our OLB have been terrible at getting to the QB.

[LionelRichie]

People love to bash J Leonhard as a lousy safety but this defense has been absolutely torched since he was injured. It's probably not a coincidence that the safety play and communication has suffered - he was responsible for a lot of that.

[jason423]

Last year they designed thier defene to funnel balls towards revis, who was completely locking down the opposing teams best option. I don't see that kind of willingness this year, which tells me Rex does't think Revis is Revis either. Also, anecdotatedly, I'd say we had way more free rushers last season giving the reast of the subpar secondary less time to stick with thier men.

See I dont think Rex funneled the ball to Revis. I think nobody bought the fact that there was a corner in the NFL that could actually play man on man with almost no safety help in todays NFL. Revis was an entirely different beast than any other "good corner" in the NFL. Prior to Revis the main guy that had all the props was Asomugha, but he is traditional in the sense that he just plays one side of the field so teams would just simply avoid him by planning around it. Thats more the norm. They play the dominant side of the football and usually have help in case someone shakes deep. Revis more or less played that way under Mangini when Mangini would go into those crazy deep zones with Rhodes playing like 20 yards off the line at the snap. I just think no receiver, quarterback, or coach believed that his guy could not beat Revis one on one so they had no issues throwing at him even though the success was never there. I think the only times they ever got someone to throw at Revis via the actual scheme was when he would gamble and take Revis off the 1 and put him on the 2 or 3 which is normally going to be the hot read off a blitz. The rush would force the QB to make a quick throw and Revis would shockingly be on the guy and have him covered like a glove. I think teams were just aware of it this season. Once he was healthy they just avoided him.

[JiFtheOracle]

Our interior d line has been fine. Our OLB have been terrible at getting to the QB.

Our Dline sucks donkey dick, I'm not good with "fine". We have not a single DE worth mentioning and Pouha while he is playing well, is not a game changing DT who demands double and triple teams that this D needs. And I consider our OLB part of the building inside out...but either way. Our Dline sucks. They can stop the run, sometimes, and thats about it.

[Aten]

Last year they designed thier defene to funnel balls towards revis, who was completely locking down the opposing teams best option. I don't see that kind of willingness this year, which tells me Rex does't think Revis is Revis either.

Really? What it tells me is that this whole funneling business is a bunch of horsesh*t dreamed up by idiots who couldn't accept that Revis's production was bound to falter due to decreased opportunity.

[CTM]

See I dont think Rex funneled the ball to Revis. I think nobody bought the fact that there was a corner in the NFL that could actually play man on man with almost no safety help in todays NFL. Revis was an entirely different beast than any other "good corner" in the NFL. Prior to Revis the main guy that had all the props was Asomugha, but he is traditional in the sense that he just plays one side of the field so teams would just simply avoid him by planning around it. Thats more the norm. They play the dominant side of the football and usually have help in case someone shakes deep. Revis more or less played that way under Mangini when Mangini would go into those crazy deep zones with Rhodes playing like 20 yards off the line at the snap. I just think no receiver, quarterback, or coach believed that his guy could not beat Revis one on one so they had no issues throwing at him even though the success was never there. I think the only times they ever got someone to throw at Revis via the actual scheme was when he would gamble and take Revis off the 1 and put him on the 2 or 3 which is normally going to be the hot read off a blitz. The rush would force the QB to make a quick throw and Revis would shockingly be on the guy and have him covered like a glove. I think teams were just aware of it this season. Once he was healthy they just avoided him.

I read they sent the overload blitzes based on QB's tendancy (towards/away) to push towards revis, also of course rolling coverage

I can't find many stats yet, but Revis's succes rate and WPA has plummetted this season, to average at best

[The Crusher]

Our Dline sucks donkey dick, I'm not good with "fine". We have not a single DE worth mentioning and Pouha while he is playing well, is not came changing DT who demands double and triple teams that this D needs. And I consider our OLB part of the building inside out...but either way. Our Dline sucks. They cant stop the run, sometimes, and thats about it.

Good point point break. I have collapsed more chairs this season than our D-line has collapsed pockets. Big Jenks miss him much.

[Aten]

I can't find many stats yet, but Revis's succes rate and WPA has plummetted this season, to average at best

Yeah, but that's also a product of the reduced sample being skewed by some bad games where he was hurt or dogging or whatever. Nobody is as good as Revis was last year, and while he certainly hasn't been great, I think he's been good enough this year to show that the anomaly was more systemic (i.e., why did they keep throwing at him?) than fluke.

[CTM]

Really? What it tells me is that this whole funneling business is a bunch of horsesh*t dreamed up by idiots who couldn't accept that Revis's production was bound to falter due to decreased opportunity.

Bahahaha... I'm trying to remember where i read it, but after reading it, I watched for it and it seemed correct..

[JiFtheOracle]

Yeah, but that's also a product of the reduced sample being skewed by some bad games where he was hurt or dogging or whatever. Nobody is as good as Revis was last year, and while he certainly hasn't been great, I think he's been good enough this year to show that the anomaly was more systemic (i.e., why did they keep throwing at him?) than fluke.

Kind of makes those Rex made Revis debates a bit more interesting.

[jason423]

I read they sent the overload blitzes based on QB's tendancy (towards/away) to push towards revis, also of course rolling coverage

I can't find many stats yet, but Revis's succes rate and WPA has plummetted this season, to average at best

I found the success numbers from about a month ago after the Revis/TO blowup in an article by Joyner. According to him his success rate last season was 62.7% compared to 65.9% this year. The dropoff has been in allowing far longer passes than last season (which I think we have all seen from just watching the games). Clearly his impact isnt the same because he doenst get the looks wo something like WPA is going to go way down since I believe that just measures positive impact on a game.

[DMaynard]

Our Dline sucks donkey dick, I'm not good with "fine". We have not a single DE worth mentioning and Pouha while he is playing well, is not a game changing DT who demands double and triple teams that this D needs. And I consider our OLB part of the building inside out...but either way. Our Dline sucks. They can stop the run, sometimes, and thats about it.

I think Rex was counting on Jenkins and Gholston. Two big mistakes that should not be repeated in 2011.

With Jenkins' knee history and weight, it was absolutely no suprise he could not make it thru one game.

Gholston had already proven he is not a football player. Putting his hand on the ground and limiting what he has to worry about did not work because he is not a football player.

[Matt39]

Our Dline sucks donkey dick, I'm not good with "fine". We have not a single DE worth mentioning and Pouha while he is playing well, is not a game changing DT who demands double and triple teams that this D needs. And I consider our OLB part of the building inside out...but either way. Our Dline sucks. They can stop the run, sometimes, and thats about it.

That's there job. Pouha has been excellent this season. There are about 2 game changing nose tackles in the game.

[JiFtheOracle]

I think Rex was counting on Jenkins and Gholston. Two big mistakes that should not be repeated in 2011.

With Jenkins' knee history and weight, it was absolutely no suprise he could not make it thru one game.

Gholston had already proven he is not a football player. Putting his hand on the ground and limiting what he has to worry about did not work because he is not a football player.

Gholston wasnt a Football player before he entered this league...but thats a different story.

Big Jenk definitely changes everything. I love the guy, so I wanted to believe he was fine and going to make it through the season. I shouldnt have let love stand in the way of the truth. Nor should the Jets.

We need a Wilfork, Ngata type. Beasts who will allow Rex to do what he wants to do. We need beastly DE's. The reason we cant get to the QB anymore is because we have nobody that demands getting doubled, so when we do send an extra rusher, olines feel completely comfortable leaving the guys one on one blocking anyone on the Jets Dline to go pick up the extra rusher.

[Matt39]

Gholston wasnt a Football player before he entered this league...but thats a different story.

Big Jenk definitely changes everything. I love the guy, so I wanted to believe he was fine and going to make it through the season. I shouldnt have let love stand in the way of the truth. Nor should the Jets.

We need a Wilfork, Ngata type. Beasts who will allow Rex to do what he wants to do. We need beastly DE's. The reason we cant get to the QB anymore is because we have nobody that demands getting doubled, so when we do send an extra rusher, olines feel completely comfortable leaving the guys one on one blocking anyone on the Jets Dline to go pick up the extra rusher.

Of course we do. We also need a Brady/Manning type.

[JiFtheOracle]

That's there job. Pouha has been excellent this season. There are about 2 game changing nose tackles in the game.

I said sometimes.

And thats not there job when they are throwing the ball. There job is to occupy blockers, to get someone free at the QB, which none of them are capable of doing.

[Damaged89]

So all we need is Ngata, Ellis in his prime and another top notch 300 pound defensive end. Simple enough.

[Damaged89]

Of course we do. We also need a Brady/Manning type.

I would also like Suggs, Wake and I suppose Woodley would do for depth. Make it happen Tanny!

[JiFtheOracle]

Of course we do. We also need a Brady/Manning type.

I'm just using them as example...there are other players in the league that arent as good but would be great here. Rodgers, Jenkins, Raji, the Williams, Hampton, Franklin...those guys make Pouha look mediocre.

Pouha is great against the run, but is pretty worthless against the pass. You can single team him, and thats the point I was making to Maynard.