The Jets didn't handle Vernon Gholston properly

[bitonti]

The $9M (or whatever the exact number is) isn't guaranteed. It's merely an amount that must be paid IF the Jets want to retain him past this season, which is iffy even without registering a sack.

so if they want to keep him (rex has been complimentary) it would be better if he went without sacks right?

good athletes turn into good football players after 3, 4, 5 years it happens all the time.

[neckdemon]

Im not saying he's great... all im saying is he's not worthless.

If you can't see that, then look around the league there are plenty of players who are really worthless.

And even with years of hindsight there's still not a pick that makes more sense.

it was just a weak draft and they basically had to take him. It was a risk/reward pick but there wasn't any other choice.

people complain they don't have a true pass rusher but it's not like going down to the pass rusher warehouse and picking one up is just so easy

39 tackles and 0 sacks in 3 years is completely worthless imo. if he wasn't a 6th overall pick with a huge cap hit if cut he would not be on the team.

[Gastineau Lives]

2 points about vernon

1) he's a lunchpail decent run stuffing player who plays a ton of specials. He's not Aaron Maybin who can't even get active. He's not demitrius underwood trying to kill himself. But he's not a superstar which is why everyone hates him... he's not worthless either. He is a player with some value.

2) jason can confirm this but I heard the Jets have a clause something like 9 mil bonus if he gets even 1 sack this year. if this is true, is it any wonder why he NEVER sees the field on passing downs? Jason Taylor, Trevor Pryce, Bryan Thomas, Calvin Pace and Shaun Ellis are all in front of him in that situation... even Marcus Dixon is getting reps there now. Maybe it's all because of talent and who legitimately is the better player but often times, follow the money...

Yeah, once a guy proves he can't really contribute in a big way, it's not really worth taking a risk on him getting lucky. Would you pay nine million dollars for one sack?

[Sperm Edwards]

Im not saying he's great... all im saying is he's not worthless.

If you can't see that, then look around the league there are plenty of players who are really worthless.

And even with years of hindsight there's still not a pick that makes more sense.

it was just a weak draft and they basically had to take him. It was a risk/reward pick but there wasn't any other choice.

people complain they don't have a true pass rusher but it's not like going down to the pass rusher warehouse and picking one up is just so easy

I don't agree with anything at all that you just wrote here other than Gholston being a risk/reward pick.

You don't front a 21 year-old kid $20M guaranteed and tell him to change positions. It was stupid then just as much as in hindsight.

They did not have to take him. They could have, and should have, traded out of the spot. There were 2 moves and neither involved staying at #6. One was trading down, and the other was offering up 2009's #1 pick to move up for Ryan. I can understand not moving up for Ryan because I think they may have wanted even more than that and while a top prospect, Ryan wasn't considered a generational QB prospect like Peyton Manning or Michael Vick were when they came out.

Further, all those "really worthless" players around the league that you refer to are Vernon Gholstons without the guaranteed money. Gholston has merely been given 50x more chances and benefits of the doubt. Those others were cuttable where Gholston was not.

Was Akili Smith more worthy of roster spots than any QB who spent those years on practice squads or the CFL? Using your logic he was not worthless.

He is worthless. The team is not developing someone more worthwhile and didn't make any attempt to replace him in the offseason due to hope & potential nonsense. In that regard, the team was better off without him at all, making him worthless.

[Sperm Edwards]

so if they want to keep him (rex has been complimentary) it would be better if he went without sacks right?

good athletes turn into good football players after 3, 4, 5 years it happens all the time.

Not many who were drafted that high though. He's been given chance after chance that those other "good athletes" weren't given because their teams hadn't invested so much $ in them.

That, and he doesn't look so friggin' athletic in the first place. Maybe compared to the general population of fatsos in the country he's athletic.

[ZachEY]

Im not saying he's great... all im saying is he's not worthless.

If you can't see that, then look around the league there are plenty of players who are really worthless.

You ignore the cavernous gap between 'great' and 'worthless'. You CAN be a bust without being 'worthless'. The fact that he's 'not the worst player in the NFL' is really not a strong argument against people who call him a bust based on his money, and his draft status.

And even with years of hindsight there's still not a pick that makes more sense.

it was just a weak draft and they basically had to take him. It was a risk/reward pick but there wasn't any other choice.

Yes, there are. You just wont accept any of them. You just make excuses why you can't take a different guy. This team would be much better off with any of the following players:

Jerod Mayo

Branden Albert

Dominique Rodgers Cromarte

Joe Flacco

Rashard Mendenhall

Chris Johnson

Michael Jenkins

Kenny Phillips

Brandon Flowers

Matt Forte

Desean Jackson

Now, you're going to respond by saying 'you can't take any of those players at 6'. Well, you can't take a special teamer at 6 either, but that's what the Jets did. Any of those players make the Jets better. Vernon Gholston does not do anything to make the Jets better.

Further, your lame excuse about the talent ahead of him falls flat as neither Pace nor Thomas have done anything special this year, and a 36 year old, well past his prime Jason Taylor, was brought in to be more 'talent' in front of Gholston.

Dude, it's ok to admit you were wrong. You're a knowledgeable guy who seems to be doing everything in his power to nose dive his credibility.

[bitonti]

He is worthless.

are we using sack stats to determine worth? if so this year's pass rush is better than last years cause they have 5 more sacks as a team with 1 game to go...

VG had a key late stop in Chicago that allowed the Jets to get the ball back. He's not mean joe greene but not nearly as bad as we think he is.... He plays tough on run downs. It's not what they drafted him for but it's not nothing.

Trading down is not easy FYI. there has to be a target for the trade up team, were people clamoring to trade up for VG who was the last of that year's blue chips? I dont think the team had alot of good choices in that draft.

[ZachEY]

I don't agree with anything at all that you just wrote here other than Gholston being a risk/reward pick.

You don't front a 21 year-old kid $20M guaranteed and tell him to change positions. It was stupid then just as much as in hindsight.

They did not have to take him. They could have, and should have, traded out of the spot. There were 2 moves and neither involved staying at #6. One was trading down, and the other was offering up 2009's #1 pick to move up for Ryan. I can understand not moving up for Ryan because I think they may have wanted even more than that and while a top prospect, Ryan wasn't considered a generational QB prospect like Peyton Manning or Michael Vick were when they came out.

Further, all those "really worthless" players around the league that you refer to are Vernon Gholstons without the guaranteed money. Gholston has merely been given 50x more chances and benefits of the doubt. Those others were cuttable where Gholston was not.

Was Akili Smith more worthy of roster spots than any QB who spent those years on practice squads or the CFL? Using your logic he was not worthless.

He is worthless. The team is not developing someone more worthwhile and didn't make any attempt to replace him in the offseason due to hope & potential nonsense. In that regard, the team was better off without him at all, making him worthless.

this is ******* murder.

[bitonti]

Jerod Mayo

Branden Albert

Dominique Rodgers Cromarte

Joe Flacco

Rashard Mendenhall

Chris Johnson

Michael Jenkins

Kenny Phillips

Brandon Flowers

Matt Forte

Desean Jackson

Now, you're going to respond by saying 'you can't take any of those players at 6'. Well, you can't take a special teamer at 6 either, but that's what the Jets did.

I could go name by name (half of those guys got hurt for example) but let's grant this list, for the sake of argument is valid... you are saying the best player they could have taken at 6 was a guy that actually went at 10. You are saying they should have reached. That's not how good teams draft.

Dude, it's ok to admit you were wrong. You're a knowledgeable guy who seems to be doing everything in his power to nose dive his credibility.

Rex Ryan talks great about Gholston is his credibility shot? To be honest I dont care about my so called credibility, all you have to know about me is I watch a ton of football and I call it like i see it.

[bitonti]

And by the way Sperm im not talking about 7th rounders. Aaron maybin has guarunteed money cant even get active on game day. that's a bust they don't even use him for specials. Gholston isn't the best or even close to it but this "he's not even a real football player" is nonsense.

[Sperm Edwards]

are we using sack stats to determine worth? if so this year's pass rush is better than last years cause they have 5 more sacks as a team with 1 game to go...

VG had a key late stop in Chicago that allowed the Jets to get the ball back. He's not mean joe greene but not nearly as bad as we think he is.... He plays tough on run downs. It's not what they drafted him for but it's not nothing.

Trading down is not easy FYI. there has to be a target for the trade up team, were people clamoring to trade up for VG who was the last of that year's blue chips? I dont think the team had alot of good choices in that draft.

LOL

There were 6 "blue chip" prospects in the draft with Gholston somehow being #6. He was the last one on the board. You're saying NO ONE wanted him enough to trade up, yet the Jets had NO CHOICE but to take this obvious pick?

When the board had exhausted itself of all 6 of those supposed blue-chippers, New England, sitting at #7, was able to trade down.

Hell, I would have taken Jacksonville's two #1's that they gave up to move up to #9 for a lesser prospect in Harvey.

[Bleedin Green]

Rex Ryan talks great about Gholston is his credibility shot?

No, but everyone generally dismisses those comments and thinks he is needlessly talking up one of his own players, as he's known to do. After all, if you believe Rex, about 50% of this teams roster is the best in the league at their position. However, at least in his case, as head coach you can see he feels the need to build up his players and try to give them some confidence. The same can't really be said for you.

[JustInFudge]

here we are years later there's still not a better pick on that board. Derrick Harvey? it wasn't that strong of a draft year in general.

Because I wanted nothing to do with him, the pick made no sense either way, but to say that wasnt a strong draft class in general is crazy talk...here's some names that were taken in the 1st round after Gholston. In hindsight, every single one of these players made more sense...and a lot of them did at the time.

Sed Ellis

Keith Rivers

Jarod Mayo

Leodis McKelvin

Ryan Clady

Jonathan Stewart

Chris Williams

Branden Albert

DRC

Joe Flacco

Aqib Talib

Reshard Mendenhall

Chris Johnson

Michael Jenkins

2nd round talent just for sh*ts and giggles

Phillip Merling

Brandon Flowers

Jordy Nelson

Curtis Lofton

Tracy Porter

Eddie Royal

Matt Forte

Desean Jackson

Ray Rice

[JustInFudge]

Yes, there are. You just wont accept any of them. You just make excuses why you can't take a different guy. This team would be much better off with any of the following players:

Jerod Mayo

Branden Albert

Dominique Rodgers Cromarte

Joe Flacco

Rashard Mendenhall

Chris Johnson

Michael Jenkins

Kenny Phillips

Brandon Flowers

Matt Forte

Desean Jackson

Damn you

Got caught watching Lombardi and took my time.

[ZachEY]

I could go name by name (half of those guys got hurt for example) but let's grant this list, for the sake of argument is valid... you are saying the best player they could have taken at 6 was a guy that actually went at 10. You are saying they should have reached. That's not how good teams draft.

Big deal who 'reached'. You're more concerned about the GM's reputation and who Boo's on draft day then production if that's what matters. I'm concerned with building the best possible team, as the GM should be, and the last guy on that list may have been considered a reach at the time, but he's beating the hell out of the NFL. I'll take some draft day booing over three years of impotence from the player we got.

Also, the notion that 4 draft slots is this incredible reach is silly to anyone who doesn't masturbate to the draft value chart. What if the Jets were set at OLB at the time? What if Gholston, as you say, was the best pick. What if they needed an ILB. Would it have been a disaster to draft Mayo then? Should they have taken Gholston anyway? What if they didn't have Revis? Would should they have taken Gholston then? Or taken a CB? If what you're saying about 4 draft slots is true, you'd have to maintain that they'd have to ignore those other options and take Gholston. In other words, the draft order should be pre-set.

Rex Ryan talks great about Gholston is his credibility shot? To be honest I dont care about my so called credibility, all you have to know about me is I watch a ton of football and I call it like i see it.

Rex talks great about everyone. It's what he does. His actions, ie, not playing Gholston, speak louder than his hyperbole that he extends to all of his players. If Rex were serious about Vern, why doesn't he play him? Serious question...

I know you watch a ton of football, and that's why it's especially shocking to me, and others, that you take a stance that is both incredibly off base, and not based on any reality that one can see in a football game.

[T0mShane]

Jets who have had sacks since Gholston has been on the roster:

Dwight Lowery

Eric Barton

Calvin Pace

Kerry Rhodes

David Harris

Darrelle Revis

Shaun Ellis

Abram Elam

Bryan Thomas

Kenyon Coleman

Kris Jenkins

Hank Poteat

David Bowens

Drew Coleman

Mike DeVito

Sione Pouha

David Barrett

CJ Mosley

Bart Scott

Jim Leonhard

Marques Douglas

Donald Strickland

Jamaal Westerman

James Ihedigbo

Brodney Pool

Eric Smith

Jason Taylor

Marcus Dixon

Trevor Pryce

[ZachEY]

And by the way Sperm im not talking about 7th rounders. Aaron maybin has guarunteed money cant even get active on game day. that's a bust they don't even use him for specials. Gholston isn't the best or even close to it but this "he's not even a real football player" is nonsense.

And Hitler was probably worse than Stalin.

[JustInFudge]

Jets who have had sacks since Gholston has been on the roster:

Eric Barton

Calvin Pace

Kerry Rhodes

David Harris

Darrelle Revis

Shaun Ellis

Abram Elam

Bryan Thomas

Kenyon Coleman

Kris Jenkins

Hank Poteat

David Bowens

Drew Coleman

Mike DeVito

Sione Pouha

David Barrett

CJ Mosley

Bart Scott

Jim Leonhard

Marques Douglas

Donald Strickland

Jamaal Westerman

James Ihedigbo

Brodney Pool

Eric Smith

Jason Taylor

Marcus Dixon

Trevor Pryce

Dwight Lowery doesnt have a sack?

[Matt39]

There's nothing wrong with reaching when the player is good.

[T0mShane]

Would you guys like to hear another story about the time I went to the 2009 training camp in Cortland? You would? I knew it!

OK, so I was watching Vernon Gholston and Kerry Rhodes because I was anxious to see how they'd do playing in Rex's scheme. After all, Rex all but told us he was going to turn Kerry Rhodes into Ed Reed and Vernon Gholston into Terrell Suggs. Well, obviously, it didn't go quite that way. It soon became apparent that Rex hated Kerry and basically put him at deep safety and played Jim Leonhard at the spot that Ed Reed occupied in Baltimore, so that was a quick death. But I still held out hope for Gholston, and I paid more attention to him.

What I watched, day after day, was really depressing. Scrubs like Stanley Daniels and Matt Slauson absolutely owned Gholston during pass rush drills, while even a loser like Bryan Thomas would beat the living sh*t out of both of them. One play in particular stood out. They had Gholston go up against Slauson, who can't move laterally to save his life. So what did Gholston do? He ran head-on into Slauson and got himself folded over backwards like a broken lawn chair. What was so galling about this play? It was the point at which it became dead obvious that Gholston had no idea how to play football. He literally had the whole field to work around Slauson--to put a spin move on him, a swim, hump move, anything--and all he could do was run straight at him and give up. This is Gholston's only move--runs forward, makes contact, stops. He did it the entire camp regardless of who was blocking him. I would watch Bart Scott demonstrate a rip move to him. I watched Calvin Pace demonstrating how to hold off a blocker by extending his arms and moving his feet. All for naught. Run forward, make contact, stop. Awful.

In sum, Gholston has no guts and no instincts for the game. Any impact he made at Ohio State was due to his ability to simply out-athlete the future dock-worker that was blocking him. His aberrational play against Jake Long will never be repeated. Gholston is a terrible football player who doesn't like contact and has no desire to improve. F.U., Gholston.

[T0mShane]

Dwight Lowery doesnt have a sack?

Good catch! BTW, did you know Lowery's middle name is "Larte"?

[ZachEY]

There's nothing wrong with reaching when the player is good.

False.

[Matt39]

False.

Worked out for Jacksonville this year. The draft value chart is a guideline...to swear by it isnt smart.

[HessStation]

I still think he could land somewhere and become a pretty decent rotational 43DE.

[T0mShane]

At every other stop, the first thing Bill Parcells did was find himself a big outside linebacker that he thinks can rush the passer. Willie McGinest in New England, DeMarcus Ware in Dallas, James Farrior here. When he was sitting there with the first overall pick in Miami, and no great consensus player on the board, with Gholston fresh off of blowing up the Combine, Parcells flat-out left Vernon Gholston on the board and took Jake Long, who is not Anthony Munoz. Should have known right then and there that Gholston was missing a few screws.

[ZachEY]

Worked out for Jacksonville this year. The draft value chart is a guideline...to swear by it isnt smart.

I'm sorry. They reached. They suck.

[Matt39]

I'm sorry. They reached. They suck.

They werent given permission to draft an entire team unfortunately.

[GAjetFan]

Can the mods just delete these threads when they start? It is a waist of server space.

[neckdemon]

are we using sack stats to determine worth? if so this year's pass rush is better than last years cause they have 5 more sacks as a team with 1 game to go...

VG had a key late stop in Chicago that allowed the Jets to get the ball back. He's not mean joe greene but not nearly as bad as we think he is.... He plays tough on run downs. It's not what they drafted him for but it's not nothing.

Trading down is not easy FYI. there has to be a target for the trade up team, were people clamoring to trade up for VG who was the last of that year's blue chips? I dont think the team had alot of good choices in that draft.

i'd just like to point out that this "key stop" was gholstons 9th tackle of the season. 9 ******* tackles? thats disgraceful. like i said......vernon has almost succeeded in completeyl avoiding any contact at all in his 3 years here. he is a disgrace and a complete bust in every sense of the word.

[DireJet38]

Guess what?

Vlad is Gholston Part II.

The similarities are all there.

1) Didn't pick up the game till HS

2) Impressed boner-hungry scouts at the combine with "numbahs."

3) Has the "look" of a dominant player

4) Has spent the majority of his rookie year on the sideline wearing fly hoodies and ill-fitting beanies.

This is all on MISTAH T.

******* portly accountant.

[neckdemon]

you know what the jets shoudl do with gholston? they should errect a pillory at the 50 yard line......put him in it and invite all fans to come **** him in the a$$.

[Bleedin Green]

Guess what?

Vlad is Gholston Part II.

The similarities are all there.

1) Didn't pick up the game till HS

2) Impressed boner-hungry scouts at the combine with "numbahs."

3) Has the "look" of a dominant player

4) Has spent the majority of his rookie year on the sideline wearing fly hoodies and ill-fitting beanies.

This is all on MISTAH T.

******* portly accountant.

Vlad is a rookie second-round pick who came from a small school, was generally considered something of a project, and is sitting behind a very good set of OL.

It's not really the same at all.

[DireJet38]

Vlad is a rookie second-round pick who came from a small school, was generally considered something of a project, and is sitting behind a very good set of OL.

It's not really the same at all.

But it could very well be.

Admit you have thought of the possibility.

I honestly don't think the kid — as nice as he seems — will ever start a game in the NFL.

Unless, of course, it gets all Adrian-Jones-ugly up in here.

[neckdemon]

Guess what?

Vlad is Gholston Part II.

The similarities are all there.

1) Didn't pick up the game till HS

2) Impressed boner-hungry scouts at the combine with "numbahs."

3) Has the "look" of a dominant player

4) Has spent the majority of his rookie year on the sideline wearing fly hoodies and ill-fitting beanies.

This is all on MISTAH T.

******* portly accountant.

honestly this whole draft class appears to be very poor. wilson, ducasse, conner, mcknight......very disappointed if the jets draft so far from this year.

[DireJet38]

honestly this whole draft class appears to be very poor. wilson, ducasse, conner, mcknight......very disappointed if the jets draft so far from this year.

Our biggest impact player from the draft class is an oft-used fullback.

Mistah T was too busy stroking himself over the Holmes coupe.

Too bad Santonio will be catching balls from Peyton next year.