MangoJet Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 From everything I have read Vernon did everything he could to try and salvage his career with the Jets. He was willing to pay Lawrence Taylor out of his own pocket to help teach him the OLB/DE position. Watching him at OSU there is no doubt in my mind that the guy isn't an absolute beast. He had an explosion that was very difficult to handle. So why wasn't Vernon successful? Why didn't that explosion translate on Sundays? I'll tell you why... The Jets tried to fit a square peg into a round hole with Vern. Much like Eric Mangini did with Jon Vilma when he transitioned to the 3-4. Vernon simply didn't have the lateral movement to play LB in the NFL. You do not need to have elite lateral movement to rush the passer from the edge, but you do need it to execute coverage and containments. Instead of spending his early years perfecting his pass rushing techniques he was being taught how to play a foregin position that he simply couldn't get. By the time Rex got here Vernon was already ruined IMO... I'm not a vindicative person. Hopefully Vern gets a second chance (he will), and is able to showcase his ability at his natural position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 OK...now where can I get some of the sh*t ur smokin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 I need to start more threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serphnx Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 You could very well be right. In typical Jet fashion, he will probably beast for someone else, like so many before him. I don't understand why Jets fans hate their own players so much while also randomly picking players they will hype up. Chad Pennington was always garbage but Jets fans loved him and acted like he was a top player. They also love Revis and think he's worth more than the rest of the defense or other positions. And of course there is the Sanchez hate. Gholston hasn't performed. It's not like he hasn't tried though. People actually hate him and wish he died. It's pretty ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Yep. Just like Calvin Pace before him. He is a stiff. By that I mean he is actually stiff. He can't change direction and he certainly can't cover. He seems to have no instinct. When he doesn't know what to do he stands around. It's like when you see a boxer that gets hit, some just roll into a ball and some just swing wildly. Vernon will be the former. I thnk that's why everybody hates him and why some of us lasted a long time hoping the light bulb would turn on. We figured maybe he would start running when he knew where to run. These problems are on him. He may still have value, to this team or another. It will not be #6 overall value, but he may end up a decent rotational DE or even a solid starter. He contributes some on special teams. He will not be a beast. By all accounts he is a hard worker and he's not lazy or he wouldn't be built like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenranger Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 So it is the teams fault when a great college player turns out to be a bust? And one year is all it takes to ruin someone? He wasn't a linebacker, we figured that out, but he doesn't seem to be that good of a pro DE either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 You could very well be right. In typical Jet fashion, he will probably beast for someone else, like so many before him. I don't understand why Jets fans hate their own players so much while also randomly picking players they will hype up. Chad Pennington was always garbage but Jets fans loved him and acted like he was a top player. They also love Revis and think he's worth more than the rest of the defense or other positions. And of course there is the Sanchez hate. huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Gholston has been ridden hard and he has been coddled. He's been used in space and with a hand in the dirt and told to do absolutely nothing but go after the QB. Sometimes a guy just sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aten Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Bad players play bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 BoomBoom FTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMaynard Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 He is big, strong and fast. But he is not a pro football player. He was a physical freak who could throw around 19 year olds in college. Sometimes when you draft physical freaks it eventually works out (Vick, Mario Williams) and sometimes it doesn't. If the Jets did not make the mistake of picking him, somebody else would have within the next few picks. Let's cut him and move on. If he makes it somewhere else, I'll climb the Empire State Building... carrying Rex Ryan like Fay Wray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 2 points about vernon 1) he's a lunchpail decent run stuffing player who plays a ton of specials. He's not Aaron Maybin who can't even get active. He's not demitrius underwood trying to kill himself. But he's not a superstar which is why everyone hates him... he's not worthless either. He is a player with some value. 2) jason can confirm this but I heard the Jets have a clause something like 9 mil bonus if he gets even 1 sack this year. if this is true, is it any wonder why he NEVER sees the field on passing downs? Jason Taylor, Trevor Pryce, Bryan Thomas, Calvin Pace and Shaun Ellis are all in front of him in that situation... even Marcus Dixon is getting reps there now. Maybe it's all because of talent and who legitimately is the better player but often times, follow the money... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMaynard Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 2 points about vernon 1) he's a lunchpail decent run stuffing player who plays a ton of specials. He's not Aaron Maybin who can't even get active. He's not demitrius underwood trying to kill himself. But he's not a superstar which is why everyone hates him... he's not worthless either. He is a player with some value. 2) jason can confirm this but I heard the Jets have a clause something like 9 mil bonus if he gets even 1 sack this year. if this is true, is it any wonder why he NEVER sees the field on passing downs? Jason Taylor, Trevor Pryce, Bryan Thomas, Calvin Pace and Shaun Ellis are all in front of him in that situation... even Marcus Dixon is getting reps there now. Maybe it's all because of talent and who legitimately is the better player but often times, follow the money... He is a lunchpail. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 2 points about vernon 1) he's a lunchpail decent run stuffing player who plays a ton of specials. He's not Aaron Maybin who can't even get active. He's not demitrius underwood trying to kill himself. But he's not a superstar which is why everyone hates him... he's not worthless either. He is a player with some value. 2) jason can confirm this but I heard the Jets have a clause something like 9 mil bonus if he gets even 1 sack this year. if this is true, is it any wonder why he NEVER sees the field on passing downs? Jason Taylor, Trevor Pryce, Bryan Thomas, Calvin Pace and Shaun Ellis are all in front of him in that situation... even Marcus Dixon is getting reps there now. Maybe it's all because of talent and who legitimately is the better player but often times, follow the money... More baseless conspiracy theory garbage. The bonus for getting a sack isn't guaranteed, so they're not paying it no matter what. All it means is if they keep him next year they have to pay him a $9M bonus he doesn't deserve and won't get. He doesn't have a sack because he doesn't see the field much because he sucks. He's not good on specials. He's not a decent lunchpail anything. He's terrible. The only reason he's active is the Jets spent so much on starting LBers (Gholston included) that their depth must include him by default. I can't believe you're still beating the drum that this total zero, who you endlessly touted like he was a sure-thing stud, is anything worthy at all. All those players you listed are better football players than Gholston. That is why he is buried behind them at times. Rex doesn't give a rat's a$$ about preventing players from reaching bonus incentives that aren't even guaranteed to the player in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 He is a garbagepail. Period. Fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 I can't believe you're still beating the drum that this total zero, who you endlessly touted like he was a sure-thing stud, is anything worthy at all. you are misremembering. I never touted Gholston pre-draft. but I still think he was the only pick that made sense. here we are years later there's still not a better pick on that board. Derrick Harvey? it wasn't that strong of a draft year in general. People complain about the Jets not having a sure-fire pass rush guy who gets 10+ sacks every year. Well they tried to get that guy and VG was that attempt. I don't blame them for trying. All those players you listed are better football players than Gholston. That is why he is buried behind them at times. I agree with that... and said it in the above post. It wasn't too long ago Bryan Thomas was stuck behind Abe and Ellis, Gholston is in a similar position at the start of his career. Other teams don't have the luxury of playing their #6 overall pick on special teams and run downs. The Jets are a deep defense. Right now Gholston is about as effective as Devito. Different prices paid (obviously) but both are rotational tough guys that get about 15-25 snaps each game. Neither are great. Neither are awful. A guy who can't get active on game-day, that's awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 2 points about vernon 1) he's a lunchpail decent run stuffing player who plays a ton of specials. He's not Aaron Maybin who can't even get active. He's not demitrius underwood trying to kill himself. But he's not a superstar which is why everyone hates him... he's not worthless either. He is a player with some value. 2) jason can confirm this but I heard the Jets have a clause something like 9 mil bonus if he gets even 1 sack this year. if this is true, is it any wonder why he NEVER sees the field on passing downs? Jason Taylor, Trevor Pryce, Bryan Thomas, Calvin Pace and Shaun Ellis are all in front of him in that situation... even Marcus Dixon is getting reps there now. Maybe it's all because of talent and who legitimately is the better player but often times, follow the money... bitonti will never ever admit that gholston is bust. it's pretty funny at this point the lengths you go to to avoid admitting it. i mean soon it will be that the gov't is hiding the real gholston in area 51 with the aliens and this gholston is just the gov't testing their uber super secret cloning program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visajets Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Vernon Gholston gets 2 sacks and a strip this Sunday. Book it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 bitonti will never ever admit that gholston is bust. it depends on the definition of the word bust. I will admit such things but the guy's career has to be over. Drob was a bust, despite starting 80+ games and several playoff wins, it was not enough to live to expectations. On the other side of the coin Vinny Testaverde was a #1 overall pick who didn't make the Pro Bowl until 10+ years after his original team drafted him. The word Bust is very nebulous. all i said was he's stuck down the depth chart and he's not Aaron Maybin, i don't think either of these are outlandish statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Vernon looks better than all of us with his shirt off and has a lot more money. other than that he's just like the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodWearsAGrayHoodie Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 He should never have been drafted by a 3-4 team. He is a 4-3 DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 you are misremembering. I never touted Gholston pre-draft. but I still think he was the only pick that made sense. here we are years later there's still not a better pick on that board. Derrick Harvey? it wasn't that strong of a draft year in general. People complain about the Jets not having a sure-fire pass rush guy who gets 10+ sacks every year. Well they tried to get that guy and VG was that attempt. I don't blame them for trying. You repeatedly referred to him as a stud. I agree with that... and said it in the above post. It wasn't too long ago Bryan Thomas was stuck behind Abe and Ellis, Gholston is in a similar position at the start of his career. Other teams don't have the luxury of playing their #6 overall pick on special teams and run downs. The Jets are a deep defense. Right now Gholston is about as effective as Devito. Different prices paid (obviously) but both are rotational tough guys that get about 15-25 snaps each game. Neither are great. Neither are awful. A guy who can't get active on game-day, that's awful. You must be smoking some primo crack. As I mentioned in another post, your boy Bryan Thomas - and his garbage effort for the entire 2007 season - is the reason we drafted Vernon Gholston in the first place. Paying a #6 overall pick on specials and to give other guys a blow is a predicament, not a luxury. This doesn't even speak to your umpteenth baseless conspiracy theory mudslinging. First the reason Gholston's on the sideline so much was easily explained (by you) as being money-driven. Then when it's shown that's total horsecrap, you come up with another nonsense explanation. And as mediocre as DeVito has been, he is clearly more effective than Gholston, is a starter for us (for better or worse), and sees the field for more snaps every single game. That is, unless one includes special teams, which no one does unless he's a standout doing so, and he isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 I wish Gholston never happened. Shoulda drafted Jonathan Stewart instead...or no Faneca but Brandon Albert at LG...that'd be drool worthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachTsurfing Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 I can't believe we are still talking about Vernon. But, I'll add my two cents since I've got nothing else better to do. As far as his talent goes. The guy showed promise against college opponents. One percent of college players make it to the pro's and have productive careers. Just because your good against college players, doesn't mean it's going to translate in the pro's. Being strong and fast doesn't make you a good player, it just means your athletic. As far as the Jets selecting him so early. One of the few draft predictions I got correct. I knew he was goin to bust as did many people on this board did. But, once picked you got to hope for the best???? p.s. I was actually right on the Bryan Thomas pick also. Just thought I'd throw that in. O.k. as far as him making the move to different positions. If the guy can't get on the field at one spot you might as well try him at something else. it's not good to see 9 million sitting on the bench scratching his butt. Did it really mess a person up moving back 3 yards and sliding over. For goodness sake people it's not rocket science. When he gets cut, and he will. He might go out and do well with another team. But I tell you it will hurt a lot less then Danny. We knew that Mcknight sucked and kept him instead. the people in front of vernon are good so it will hurt a lot less if he does do well. as far as people hating him. I thing I agree with you on. People shouldn't hate vernon. the guy showed up for the draft combine and did his thing. it's the jets that f'ed picking him. vernon isn't a bust the spot he was chosen is the bust and that's on the jets. the next post i read about vernon better be congrat's to him for getting a sack or us cutting him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 He should never have been drafted by a 3-4 team. He is a 4-3 DE. The Jets play enough 4-3 to prove that he's neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 I think all of JetNation would agree that sometimes in life, it's ok to say "I was wrong". It's ok to be wrong. People will still respect you. Unless of course you spend years twisting semantics and making excuses for why you aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 it depends on the definition of the word bust. I will admit such things but the guy's career has to be over. Drob was a bust, despite starting 80+ games and several playoff wins, it was not enough to live to expectations. On the other side of the coin Vinny Testaverde was a #1 overall pick who didn't make the Pro Bowl until 10+ years after his original team drafted him. The word Bust is very nebulous. all i said was he's stuck down the depth chart and he's not Aaron Maybin, i don't think either of these are outlandish statements. i just looke dup his stats. in 3 years.....23 solo tackles, 10 assisted tackles for 39 total. 0 sacks. this is the number 6 overall pick....who alot of the time he was on the field was supposedly just told....."get the qb". i mean it's actually amazing how little he has actually done. you almost have to try to be this unproductive i think. i mean in 3 years you'd think he might have actually just lucked into at least 1 ******* sack. and this is going by nfl.com stats. pro-football reference has his stats recorded as even lower. sorry but this dude is a bust in every sense of the word. one of the worst ever imo. i mean even if you ignore the stats all you have to do is have watched the games to see that he has made zero impact on any game at all since he's been here. he collected his millions, avoided injury (actually he almost succeeded in avoiding any contact at all), and he will be out of football after this year. smart man...he made millions of dollars and did almost nothing to earn that money. i wish i could swing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 This doesn't even speak to your umpteenth baseless conspiracy theory mudslinging. First the reason Gholston's on the sideline so much was easily explained (by you) as being money-driven. I don't think he's on the sideline because of money. He's on the sideline because he's sucked, but if he's not playing this week there may be something to the money issue. If it's true that he gets $9M for one sack, you know they don't want him rushing the passer in a meaningless game. They wanted him to succeed and he didn't, but now they aren't going to want him lucking into $9M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 I don't think he's on the sideline because of money. He's on the sideline because he's sucked, but if he's not playing this week there may be something to the money issue. If it's true that he gets $9M for one sack, you know they don't want him rushing the passer in a meaningless game. They wanted him to succeed and he didn't, but now they aren't going to want him lucking into $9M. That's what I said as far as why he's on the sideline. The $9M (or whatever the exact number is) isn't guaranteed. It's merely an amount that must be paid IF the Jets want to retain him past this season, which is iffy even without registering a sack. However, at this stage of the season, with the playoffs already clinched, I agree that I wouldn't play him either. This way if they want to cut him after this year it isn't because of bonus money. My guess is he's gone whether he registers a sack or not. But if he does luck into one it's out of their hands since there is no way they can pay it. The only exception would be if they've already decided not to bring him back no matter what. Then a meaningless sack in a meaningless game is meaningless contract-wise as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 That's what I said as far as why he's on the sideline. The $9M (or whatever the exact number is) isn't guaranteed. It's merely an amount that must be paid IF the Jets want to retain him past this season, which is iffy even without registering a sack. However, at this stage of the season, with the playoffs already clinched, I agree that I wouldn't play him either. This way if they want to cut him after this year it isn't because of bonus money. My guess is he's gone whether he registers a sack or not. But if he does luck into one it's out of their hands since there is no way they can pay it. The only exception would be if they've already decided not to bring him back no matter what. Then a meaningless sack in a meaningless game is meaningless contract-wise as well. Maybe they should play him then. It will give him a chance to force their hand. I don't think he looked incapable most of the time he's played, just not very good. He didn't hold the (left) corner once early against Chicago and I didn't notice him much after that. Not sure if he wasn't there, wasn't noticeable or I just was watching something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSJets Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 More baseless conspiracy theory garbage. The bonus for getting a sack isn't guaranteed, so they're not paying it no matter what. All it means is if they keep him next year they have to pay him a $9M bonus he doesn't deserve and won't get. He doesn't have a sack because he doesn't see the field much because he sucks. He's not good on specials. He's not a decent lunchpail anything. He's terrible. The only reason he's active is the Jets spent so much on starting LBers (Gholston included) that their depth must include him by default. I can't believe you're still beating the drum that this total zero, who you endlessly touted like he was a sure-thing stud, is anything worthy at all. All those players you listed are better football players than Gholston. That is why he is buried behind them at times. Rex doesn't give a rat's a$$ about preventing players from reaching bonus incentives that aren't even guaranteed to the player in the first place. Bit still defends Dbust Robertson so is it any wonder why. Some people just refuse to admit they were wrong on a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Three words: Come on now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 I actually agree with the OP, they didnt handle him properly by seeing predraft that he wasnt a Football player. They should have made him a conditioning coach, then maybe the whole tripgate wouldnt have happened. Gholston would be way to scared to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Bit still defends Dbust Robertson so is it any wonder why. Some people just refuse to admit they were wrong on a player. Hey, Robertson was at least a legitimate NFL starter for a while. He's a HOFer compared to Gholston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Im not saying he's great... all im saying is he's not worthless. If you can't see that, then look around the league there are plenty of players who are really worthless. And even with years of hindsight there's still not a pick that makes more sense. it was just a weak draft and they basically had to take him. It was a risk/reward pick but there wasn't any other choice. people complain they don't have a true pass rusher but it's not like going down to the pass rusher warehouse and picking one up is just so easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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