Mark Sanchez: Winningest QB in Jets Postseason history

[Falcon63]

I'd be more delicate about it, but Kleckineau makes good points.

**Our D is good enough. It kept Manning under the 20+ threshold that wins games.

**Our O must then GET 20+, especially against Indy's WASTED defense.

-We got 16. And overthrows. Against a BAD defense.

Considering our next opponent has a REAL defense, the expectation that 16 (or less) must produce a win is ulcer-inducing.

You mean the 25th ranked defense?

[Klecko73isGod]

I'd be more delicate about it, but Kleckineau makes good points.

**Our D is good enough. It kept Manning under the 20+ threshold that wins games.

**Our O must then GET 20+, especially against Indy's WASTED defense.

-We got 16. And overthrows. Against a BAD defense.

Considering our next opponent has a REAL defense, the expectation that 16 (or less) must produce a win is ulcer-inducing.

Indy's defense was ranked 20th, the Pats were 25th. Indy was ranked 21st on third down defense, the Pats were ranked dead last in the league. The Colts were 13th in pass defense, the Pats - 30th.

The Pats defense is the least of my worries for Sunday.

[Falcon63]

CTM, they just dont get it. Game wining drives do exist but THAT wasnt one of them.

Thank god for Cro's return and Braylon and his vertical leaping ability or we have Folk trying a 50+ yrdr.

Furthermore.

When Shonne fumbles its ok for Jet fans to call him out.

When Braylon drops an easy catch it was ok for Jet fans to call him Edward Scissor hands.

When Slauson was playing like a turnstile it was OK to wish for Alan Faneca.

etc etc.

When Sancho puts up a stinker game like he did last night and almosts costs the NYJ the game it is blasphamy to call it the way it is. Must be his model looks.

NYJ won inspite of his high passes and horrible int.

He made key throws in the final minute when it mattered. If it wasn't for that pass to Braylon, we would've lost. It wasn't the best pass, however, it is Braylon's job to catch passes like that. He is supposed to make that play 9 times out of 10. Sanchez has had 5 (or is it 4? correct me if I'm wrong) 4th quarter comebacks this season alone. He doesn't put up the greatest stats, but he plays well when it matters. A lot of Jets fan are just haters that can't see Sanchez has a sh*tload of potential. He's very mobile, doesn't panic, is very smart and has a great work ethic, and he plays well when it matters. The only thing he needs to work on is consistency, and if he can do that, he will be elite. Yes, elite. It's not a fluke that he was an MVP candidate at the start of the season, and it's no fluke that Sanchez played well in the playoffs last year as well in the AFCC game.

Just pisses me off that people can't give him credit. As long as we win, who cares how many passes are off?

[Bleedin Green]

I'd be more delicate about it, but Kleckineau makes good points.

**Our D is good enough. It kept Manning under the 20+ threshold that wins games.

**Our O must then GET 20+, especially against Indy's WASTED defense.

-We got 16. And overthrows. Against a BAD defense.

Considering our next opponent has a REAL defense, the expectation that 16 (or less) must produce a win is ulcer-inducing.

While I agree the offense needs to play better, I don't think it's an impossible feat. And I'm not sure what makes the Patriots a "real" defense as opposed to the Colts. This season the Colts were 20th in total defense, Patriots 25th and the Colts were 13th in passing defense, Patriots were 30th. Granted the Patriots were much better in scoring defense (8th) than Colts (23rd), but they've hardly been world-beaters this season either and they only even really turned that number around at the end of the year. If the Jets can rack up the points against Chicago (4th ranked scoring D) on the road, why is it impossible for them to do well against the Patriots? It's certainly not a given that they will, but it's not a given that they won't either. I agree with the premise that they shouldn't count on a 17-16 type score in this game, but they won't necessarily have to.

[Klecko73isGod]

He made key throws in the final minute when it mattered. If it wasn't for that pass to Braylon, we would've lost. It wasn't the best pass, however, it is Braylon's job to catch passes like that. He is supposed to make that play 9 times out of 10. Sanchez has had 5 (or is it 4? correct me if I'm wrong) 4th quarter comebacks this season alone. He doesn't put up the greatest stats, but he plays well when it matters. A lot of Jets fan are just haters that can't see Sanchez has a sh*tload of potential. He's very mobile, doesn't panic, is very smart and has a great work ethic, and he plays well when it matters. The only thing he needs to work on is consistency, and if he can do that, he will be elite. Yes, elite. It's not a fluke that he was an MVP candidate at the start of the season, and it's no fluke that Sanchez played well in the playoffs last year as well in the AFCC game.

Just pisses me off that people can't give him credit. As long as we win, who cares how many passes are off?

Exactly. I loved Rex's line in his post game presser about that: "the kid is 6-5 for a reason."

[CTM]

Yes and? It's too much to ask someone to stay consistent on their opinions? If you hate Sanchez go hate him. Don't in 5 years come back and pretend you loved him.

You really gotta relax with this stuff. Opinions are supposed to change, particularly the types of guys you are taking issue with here. When he was drafted, there was x amount of data available to form the basis of an opinion, as new data comes available, opinions are adjusted to consider it, it's a pretty basic concept in the world of statistics and science. You're asking science types to operate based on faith and it ain't gonna happen, but the fact that they're unwilling to ignore certain realities and adopt blind faith shouldn't preclude them from one day celebrating being incorrect in thier original opinion.

[JerryK]

Indy's defense was ranked 20th, the Pats were 25th. Indy was ranked 21st on third down defense, the Pats were ranked dead last in the league. The Colts were 13th in pass defense, the Pats - 30th.

The Pats defense is the least of my worries for Sunday.

Wow. Didn't know the Pats' D was rated so low. What's the general opinion of how they held us to 3? (not trying to be sarcastic, just tryingg to give myself hope)

[JiFtheOracle]

It's more than too much to ask. It's patently idiotic. Opinions are based on information. As available information changes, opinions are revised. Thinking stupid things in the face of abundant evidence to the contrary isn't a virtue.

Initial opinion, sure, and yes, of course my opinion has changed. He's played better than I expected and now I think he'll be better than I thought he'd be when we drafted him. Unfortunately, better than I thought is not the same as good. Or even mediocre.

Exactly. Thats why I laugh when people try to make fun of someone for an opinion that is later incorrect or if someone changes there stance. Its what intelligent people do, adjust based on evidence.

And I'm with ya on Sanchez. He's actually played much better in all the areas that worried me the most. For that I'm grateful because its turned out to be the difference between a win and loss. But it doesnt change my overall opinion of where he is mentioned among the best in the game.

[sh4dy15]

Wow. Didn't know the Pats' D was rated so low. What's the general opinion of how they held us to 3? (not trying to be sarcastic, just tryingg to give myself hope)

Honestly, I just think it was a terrible god awful game plan that for some reason our coaches thought would work and when it didnt everything just went to sh*t. Even Rex himself this week said that his gameplan for that game looked great on paper but wasnt realistic.

[JoeWillie]

Guys, the reality of the situation is this ...

Sanchez is a young quarterback who is still developing which, by definition, MEANS inconsistency.

The young QBs who are NOT inconsistent are very, very few and far between. Even most HOF'ers have been more inconsistent in their first few years then Sanchez. See Elway, Aikman, Bradshaw, Staubach, and yes, even our beloved Joe Willie.

Much fewer have shown the ability to play well at the most critical times, especially this early in their careers.

Sanchez has that.

The fact that he has been thrusted into a starting role on a good team means that he is going to be scrutinized more than most young QB's who can develop slowly in less visable and pressurized situations.

We should be happy that the kid has the poise to perform on the greatest stage in the biggest media market, seems to have a good head on his shoulders, AND has a knack for pulling out games when the pressure is on the most, this early in his career.

OK, it's frustrating at times, and I can understand the periodic venting by some when he doesn't play especially well, like the performance Saturday night.

But honestly, I just don't understand some of the hate for this kid that many on this board consistently spew, even when he plays well.

I, for one, am glad he is our QB, and probably will be for the next 10 years.

[SMC]

Initial opinion, sure, and yes, of course my opinion has changed. He's played better than I expected and now I think he'll be better than I thought he'd be when we drafted him. Unfortunately, better than I thought is not the same as good. Or even mediocre.

If you called him awful when he was drafted and awful now, who gives a crap about your imposed nuiance of awfulness?

I believe in shades of gray, but you've been in the same shade from the begining. That's just life.

[Aten]

But honestly, I just don't understand some of the hate for this kid that many on this board consistently spew, even when he plays well.

You're reducing an argument based on numbers to blind animus. It's pretty difficult to understand anything when you're trying so hard not to.

[SMC]

And I'm with ya on Sanchez. He's actually played much better in all the areas that worried me the most. For that I'm grateful because its turned out to be the difference between a win and loss. But it doesnt change my overall opinion of where he is mentioned among the best in the game.

And Aten accuses us of straw man arguments? No one mentions he among the best in the game. The numbers don't lie.

And it's not an issue of who is a better fan, so I don't know why you brought up that before. Unless you have a persecution complex.

It's funny how the tables have turned since Penningtology. Some guys who killed Chad for having the stats but not the wins are now killing Sanchez for not having the stats, but having the wins.

Guys like me and Bleedin are bottom line. We want Sanchez to improve and he NEEDS to improve. But in his young career if he is a big moment QB without the stats I'd take that everytime.

For you specifically, I can't find the validity in your premise that a just turned 24 yr old QB in his 2nd yr can't improve in the future after he has already improved from his first season.

[CTM]

Wow. Didn't know the Pats' D was rated so low. What's the general opinion of how they held us to 3? (not trying to be sarcastic, just tryingg to give myself hope)

Because they were good enough to slam the ball down our throats when our offense pulled it's every other game 1st quarter no show. After that, we were one dimensional and actually rate as on of the worst offenses in the league when down by 10+..

[CTM]

And Aten accuses us of straw man arguments? No one mentions he among the best in the game. The numbers don't lie.

And it's not an issue of who is a better fan, so I don't know why you brought up that before. Unless you have a persecution complex.

It's funny how the tables have turned since Penningtology. Some guys who killed Chad for having the stats but not the wins are now killing Sanchez for not having the stats, but having the wins.

Guys like me and Bleedin are bottom line. We want Sanchez to improve and he NEEDS to improve. But in his young career if he is a big moment QB without the stats I'd take that everytime.

For you specifically, I can't find the validity in your premise that a just turned 24 yr old QB in his 2nd yr can't improve in the future after he has already improved from his first season.

sanchez is clearly better then pennington and has 100x more potential.. don't even compare..

all of this really is, is a bunch of people talking over one another and only hearing the most extreme versions of the other sides opinion that can possibly inferred and rolling into one opinion for the entire side.. basically internet as usual..

[jgb]

consistency will come with experience. but you're either a gamer or you aren't and sanchez certainly seems to be. i've been guilty of being hard on him this season but he's given me the two best back to back years of Jets football in my lifetime.

[Aten]

If you called him awful when he was drafted and awful now, who gives a crap about your imposed nuiance of awfulness?

I believe in shades of gray, but you've been in the same shade from the begining. That's just life.

What exactly do you perceive to be the difference between nuance and shades of gray? I think they mean the same thing, but you are clearly operating under a different understanding. That or this is just the dumbest ******* sh*t ever. I don't think I even want to know.

[SMC]

sanchez is clearly better then pennington and has 100x more potential.. don't even compare..

all of this really is, is a bunch of people talking over one another and only hearing the most extreme versions of the other sides opinion that can possibly inferred and rolling into one opinion for the entire side.. basically internet as usual..

Dude, when did you become so observant & insightful?

You're doing drugs again?

[JOJOTOWNSELL]

Exactly. Thats why I laugh when people try to make fun of someone for an opinion that is later incorrect or if someone changes there stance. Its what intelligent people do, adjust based on evidence.

And I'm with ya on Sanchez. He's actually played much better in all the areas that worried me the most. For that I'm grateful because its turned out to be the difference between a win and loss. But it doesnt change my overall opinion of where he is mentioned among the best in the game.

but what about not being impatient and so "week to week" in our evaluation of players. We as fans are so conditioned to react immediately to every lil piece of news or tidbit or play that we see that it doesnt allow us to have a clear view of the big picture. Websites like this bring that type of fan out because of the constant flow of new content. Everyone was destroying Sanchez at the end of the year. Now its about "changing opinions based on evidence?"...why cant it be about, "I am so impatient that i cant let my 2nd year QB DEVELOP in peace".....If we as Jets fans are constantly reacting to every bit of news floating out there on the interwebz than we cant ever expect to see the big picture.....2 years in the league, 2 deep playoff runs and at least 1 afc championship game.

Mark is a stud, always was boys

[SMC]

What exactly do you perceive to be the difference between nuance and shades of gray? I think they mean the same thing, but you are clearly operating under a different understanding. That or this is just the dumbest ******* sh*t ever. I don't think I even want to know.

Let me explain it in simple terms because your reading comprehension skills seem to have suffered for some reason.

Nuance and shades of gray are the same thing. That's why I said I believe in it (in principle, perhaps I should have added that to make it clearer for you).

You're trying to "nuance" awful and there is no need to. That's like trying to nuance being dead.

[CTM]

Dude, when did you become so observant & insightful?

You're doing drugs again?

it's funny cause it's true...

and kinda scary

[Kleckineau]

And Aten accuses us of straw man arguments? No one mentions he among the best in the game. The numbers don't lie.And it's not an issue of who is a better fan, so I don't know why you brought up that before. Unless you have a persecution complex.

It's funny how the tables have turned since Penningtology. Some guys who killed Chad for having the stats but not the wins are now killing Sanchez for not having the stats, but having the wins.

Guys like me and Bleedin are bottom line. We want Sanchez to improve and he NEEDS to improve. But in his young career if he is a big moment QB without the stats I'd take that everytime.

For you specifically, I can't find the validity in your premise that a just turned 24 yr old QB in his 2nd yr can't improve in the future after he has already improved from his first season.

Here are some numbers for ya to chew on.

Pedestrian at best.

The Jets win inspite of his poor play.

Playoff Totals

games played 4 attempts 99 completed 59 pctg 59.3 yds 728 avg gain 7.0 tds 4 int 3 rating 77.5

[Aten]

Let me explain it in simple terms because your reading comprehension skills seem to have suffered for some reason.

Have they? Tell me where I'm going wrong here. 'Who gives a crap about...' is a rhetorical question which converted to the declarative means roughly 'nobody gives a crap about...' You then proceed to inform us that you do in fact give a crap. I'm not sure what you're trying to say. That you can take a nuanced position and I can't? I think you realize that that isn't a legitimate argument. That you don't think my opinion of him has changed as much as it should have and are trying to cast that difference of opinion as some sort of logical flaw by ridiculously claiming that good has shades and awful doesn't? Warmer. That you're talking moronic bullsh*t and are well past the point of even being able to realize it? Disco.

[T0mShane]

I've seen the future. It is Sunday night. I post this:

Easy' date=' fellas. He's only a second year player! Weren't you the same guys who were telling everybody how awesome Sanchez was on Monday?[/quote']

[Obrien2Toon]

that is really depressing.

God owes us a Super Bowl for all the pain and suffering we have endured.

[jgb]

never ceases to amaze me what jets fans can fight over.

we're in the dance, boys! save this crap for the offseason.

[SMC]

Here are some numbers for ya to chew on.

Pedestrian at best.

The Jets win inspite of his poor play.

Playoff Totals

games played 4 attempts 99 completed 59 pctg 59.3 yds 728 avg gain 7.0 tds 4 int 3 rating 77.5

WTF are you talking about?

You just bolded and supersized me saying that no one mentions he is among the best in the game. And the numbers don't lie: he isn't among the best.

So you then cite numbers for me to "chew on" which SUPPORTS my statement???

Get a clue.

[SMC]

Have they? Tell me where I'm going wrong here. 'Who gives a crap about...' is a rhetorical question which converted to the declarative means roughly 'nobody gives a crap about...' You then proceed to inform us that you do in fact give a crap. I'm not sure what you're trying to say. That you can take a nuanced position and I can't? I think you realize that that isn't a legitimate argument. That you don't think my opinion of him has changed as much as it should have and are trying to cast that difference of opinion as some sort of logical flaw by ridiculously claiming that good has shades and awful doesn't? Warmer. That you're talking moronic bullsh*t and are well past the point of even being able to realize it? Disco.

I didn't bother reading what you just wrote because it shouldn't have taken you 133 words to say it.

[T0mShane]

never ceases to amaze me what jets fans can fight over.

we're in the dance, boys! save this crap for the offseason.

What are we fighting over anyway?

[jgb]

What are we fighting over anyway?

whether "awful" is absolute or relative, i think. who can keep up

[Damaged89]

What are we fighting over anyway?

Reading comprehension I think. Either that or the shades of nuance between Nacho being teh awesome and teh suck. I think.

[SenorGato]

I'll settle this...my dick is bigger than all of yours...except for now because it's a little cold in here.

[JoeWillie]

I didn't bother reading what you just wrote because it shouldn't have taken you 133 words to say it.

LOL!

That's just what I was thinking.

[CTM]

What are we fighting over anyway?

currently, exactly where on the scale between awful and good sanchez belongs, and the units of measure on the scale itself. Do you think there is shades of awful, or is awful, awful?

It's really the same arguement we've had every week and I don't think anybody really understands where anybody else stands anyway. I don't care

[Falcon63]

Here's how I see it, to whomever posted the playoff stats. You're probably looking at the TD:INT ratio....I hope. His YPA is good, his completion % is good, just too many INTs. I see it as a TD is a guaranteed score, an INT is just a possession for the other team. So, as long as you have more TDs than INTs (actually, you don't even have to), you can still put your team in a position to win. It's the same logic as basketball, as an assist is weighted higher than a TO.