Jump to content

is 120 million a good cap for the JETS?


Jetkid94

Recommended Posts

forget the cap for a second

let's say the cap was 500 million dollars

does anyone really believe that santonio holmes, braylon edwards or antonio cromartie are sound investments? that their performance on their 2nd contract will be as good as (or better than) their performance on their 1st contract? It's a serious questions.

There's a reason why Revis, Brick and Mangold are already locked up, and these other guys aren't. It's not just talent it's reliability and dependability.

I personally wouldn't trustthese fools to go get me a bag of wise potato chips from the corner store.

Im not sure about this statement. Revis Brick and Mangold all had multiple years under the Jets. Braylon has 1 complete year under his belt as a Jet. Cro has 1 year under his belt and given the suspension Santonio has 3/4 of a season as a Jet.

Revis Brick and Mangold were able to play for years in order to give you that sense of stability with them, no doubt. But you cant compare their situation to free agent/trade pick-ups with a year left on their contract. The bottomline is that they all produced last year. Were would we be if Wilson was our #2 CB? How many Games did Santonio win for us last year yet missed the 1st 4 games of the season? How many big plays did Braylon NOT drop the ball on including the epic Patriot playoff game?

These guys, with as little time that they've had here produced for us and we're a better team with them then without them. The only person that I can see replacing (if we absolutely had to) is Cro, and thats IF we can find someone with equal or better talent for a better price. We're not going to find anyone who can replace Braylon/Santonio's talent and with youth to match.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 81
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Here's what I don't get. Ok, people are saying, let's go and re-sign two of the following three: Cro, Edwards, Holmes.

Ok, fine. I would be happy with that, really.

The problem is... we have about 10 more free agents. What about both of the Smiths.. Ellis, Pool, Coleman, Folk, Weatherford, Ighedibo, Woody/Hunter...?????

Brad Smith - gone

Eric Smith - resigned

Rodney Pool - resigned

James Ihedigbo - resigned

Damien Woody - wait and see. If Ducasse or Hunter can do the job, he won't be asked back.

Wayne Hunter - should be resigned, could be outbid. Ditto Rob Turner.

The NY Jets will have a punter and a kicker in 2011

Rex Ryan loves CB's. Cromartie could potentially get #1 CB money from another team. The Jets were good to Cromartie, and are good for him. But he could decide to chase the almighty dollar and there wouldn't be a lot the Jets could do about it.

Ryan prefers Santonio Holmes. He believes Santonio is the best WR on the team, and he will be the Jets only priority at the position. Braylon Edwards would love to return, and as a former #3 pick already has plenty of money in the bank. But the Jets probably don't start seriously talking to him until they've determined that Holmes will be difficult to resign before the three day window closes.

The Jets could use pass rush help, and safety help. They could have targets in free agency in those areas that cause them to put the brakes on a little bit in resigning their own guys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Navigating Free Agency: Pre-Emptive Strikes

By Bassett on Jun 21, 2011, 9:00 am

There are rumblings that a CBA deal is in the offing that could be voted on by owners as soon as today in Chicago. If this works? Hooray. But if so, now comes the hard part for Mike Tannenbaum. With a large looming free agent class, it’s hard not to start thinking about a helter-skelter free agency period that could be starting around July 4th. With that in mind, we’re going to run down what we see as some potential outcomes for the Jets with all their many moving pieces in a new series, Navigating Free Agency.

Last week we looked at some of the worst case scenarios that could play out in the new CBA for a GM to deal with, and those specifically facing Mike Tannenbaum. While some of them might come to pass, it’s safe to say they won’t all happen in one year to the Jets. Even if they did, the Jets have the flexibility to make it work without losing most of their biggest impact free agents.

But how? For the Jets their worst-case would involve a low cap number, say a rollback to the $117 million. While that number might seem extreme, it does represents the “best case” for some of the stingier owners — so we’ll use that as a baseline, but wouldn’t be shocked if there’s a cap in 2011, that it’d be much higher.

Right now, if you were to add up all the current Jets players under contract (around $100 million) along with the assumed salary figures for their rookie class (around $4 million) AND even throw in David Harris at his expected franchise tag value (around $10 million) that puts the Jets at $114 million against the cap.

Seems close right? While it looks like there’s not a lot of room for Santonio Holmes, Braylon Edwards and Antonio Cromartie, not to mention role players like Brad Smith, Eric Smith, James Ihedigbo, etc.? Some quick work can take that number way, way down.

Step One: Get Down & Dirty With Sanchez’s Salary

As it stands right now, Mark Sanchez is slated to make $17 million from the Jets in total compensation during the 2011 season based on his contract. Including 2011, Sanchez has three years left on his rookie deal, and while the Jets might be slow to extend hard values to that rookie deal just yet, I’m sure they’ll ask Mark, a true team player, to convert his $14 million in 2011 salary to what is sometimes referred to as an “option bonus.” An option bonus would split that salary over the next three seasons (2011, 2012, 2013) while still paying it to him in the 2011 fiscal year. If the team is pressed, the Jets might even tack a dummy year or two onto the end of Sanchez’s wild contract to help shave that number even lower … effectively taking the Jets cap figure down around $9 million.

New Cap Status: Roughly $105 million

Step Two: A Franchise Player No More

David Harris has been a team player and has waited his turn for his new contract. With a franchise tag draped around his neck, it’s obvious the Jets value Harris, and more importantly value not competing with other teams for his contract. I expect the Jets want him to continue to be a big part of the defense for a years to come. But the Jets are staring down the barrel of a $10 million salary for Harris in 2011if they don’t do a longer term deal. The Jets have to get Harris to sign a deal that makes use of bonuses to give Harris money closer to the front of the deal, but from a cap perspective, spread that same money over the remaining years of his contract. I expect the Jets to try and get his cap value at or under $4 million for this season to give them adequate breathing room to sign other players and the best way to do it would be with use of bonuses.

New Cap Status: Roughly $99 million

Step Three: Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night, Bryan Thomas

At this point I think we’re getting into contingency territory. If the Jets really wanted to cut Bryan Thomas, they would have done it when they jettisoned Damien Woody, Kris Jenkins, Jason Taylor, Vernon Gholston and Ben Hartsock.

Since the Jets are wise, they held onto a guy who can still be a serious contributor, but whom also is from a cap perspective, a big and “clean cut.” Whereas players like Kris Jenkins had “dead money” accelerated into the 2010 fiscal year, thus cleaning the 2011 books based on the rules, it made sense for the Jets to rid themselves of players like Jenkins that would be a financial burden along with a being productivity question mark in 2011.

I like Bryan Thomas a lot, but if the team is pressed, they won’t value him at the $3.7 million figure he has coming in 2011 when weighed against their other offseason priorities. Thomas has the highest cap savings still remaining for the Jets and they’ll use it if they feel they need it.

New Cap Status: Roughly $95-96 million

Step Four: Get Wild With It

This seems the least likely, but if the Jets are still worried about making their cap figures work, they have a handful of players making north of $2.5 million in salary this season that they might be able to tap on their shoulders and impress on them the importance of helping make some cap space by converting salaries to option bonuses. Of course, some might be more hesitant than others based on how previous contract negotiations went, but it’s an option to extend contract to some lesser players, most likely in attempts to keep some of their own guys.

SALARIES — Revis: $7 million, Ferguson: $5.6 million, Scott: $4.9, Pace: $3.8 million, Moore: $2.7 million

New Cap Status: Roughly $??? million

Assuming the Jets take the first three steps to get to $95 million against a presumed worst-case cap figure of $117, that would give the Jets $22 million to work with to sign three of the Jets major free agents, along with a host of other role players from the Jets own roster, or from elsewhere. While it doesn’t leave a lot of room for the likes of a Nnamdi, it’s enough and as we’ll see tomorrow, will help us understand just how long the Jets plan to keep some of their free agents based on how they structure those new deals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would rather have that than a player who is as dumb as a box of rocks, and will turn soft as soon as he signs big money.

No way I spend big money on Cromartie expecting future contributions. Too high risk.

Instead take a risk and let Kyle Wilson get smoked over and over. Thats a winning formula. :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Instead take a risk and let Kyle Wilson get smoked over and over. Thats a winning formula. :rolleyes:

You can't build a football team the way that you build the NY Yankees. If the Jets HAVE TO have 2 star CBs, then Revis is not worth what they are paying him.

I do not believe that is the case, and I will not trust big dollars to Cromartie.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can't build a football team the way that you build the NY Yankees. If the Jets HAVE TO have 2 star CBs, then Revis is not worth what they are paying him.

I do not believe that is the case, and I will not trust big dollars to Cromartie.

Opposing teams will not throw at Revis. Our opponents will line up thier #1 WR against Kyle Wilson and he will get beat like a drum all day long. Cromartie proved his worth last season. I cant believe people like you need to be reminded.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Opposing teams will not throw at Revis. Our opponents will line up thier #1 WR against Kyle Wilson and he will get beat like a drum all day long. Cromartie proved his worth last season. I cant believe people like you need to be reminded.

Guess you never heard of moving your CB's around and disguising coverages.

Defenses can be the ones that dictate who covers whom.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guess you never heard of moving your CB's around and disguising coverages.

Defenses can be the ones that dictate who covers whom.

Are you kidding me or what? This isnt Madden. Routes and plays are designed to offset the Defense. What happens when a team has 2-3 decent WRs who covers them? Kyle Wilson is not ready and the defense will suffer with him at CB. Lose Cro and lose 1 of the best defenses in the league.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are you kidding me or what? This isnt Madden. Routes and plays are designed to offset the Defense. What happens when a team has 2-3 decent WRs who covers them? Kyle Wilson is not ready and the defense will suffer with him at CB. Lose Cro and lose 1 of the best defenses in the league.

YOU were the one that said teams can move their best WR away from Revis-WRONG-The Jets are the one that can dictate that.

The Jets had THE BEST defense (2009-YPG) WITHOUT Cromartie.

You are all over the board.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

WITHOUT CROMARTIE THE NYJETS DEFENSE WILL SUFFER BIGTIME.

Do you understand that? Teams will not throw at Revis and they will purposely scheme away from him. Kyle Wilson is not ready!

You have your way that I would reconstruct the Jets, I have mine. We will see what Tannebaum does.

Personally, I don't think he is keen at throwing top dollar at a CB position where the player is as dumb as a box of rocks.

Again, we will see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You have your way that I would reconstruct the Jets, I have mine. We will see what Tannebaum does.

Personally, I don't think he is keen at throwing top dollar at a CB position where the player is as dumb as a box of rocks.

Again, we will see.

If they sign Cro dont they also get a kick returner/punt returner.Remember his return during the playoffs? Brad Smith is a goner so this makes more sense. Did you see Kyle Wilson play last year? TV showed nothing. This guy was beaten badly every play.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If they sign Cro dont they also get a kick returner/punt returner.Remember his return during the playoffs? Brad Smith is a goner so this makes more sense. Did you see Kyle Wilson play last year? TV showed nothing. This guy was beaten badly every play.

Football decisions are based as much on financial decisions as they are on ability.

Reality is that Cromartie is a better football player (today) than Wislon. No one is foolhardy enough to argue that point. And no one is.

But, that is not the sole piece of the puzzle. Cromartie is limited in what he can provide, for the money he will be demanding (I am guessing he wants to be top 10 paid CB). For that you get a shoddy tackler at CB, and one that prefers to only play man up.

Rex Ryan defenses are usually the beneficiary of having zone coverage responsibilities. They allow for more freelancing.

Cromartie was not able to do that so well. They actually dumbed down their defense because he would pass off receivers in correctly and let others go. It forced them to man him up.

To me, I do not pay top dollar for a CB that

-I have to dumb a defense down for

-I worry about his attitude once he gets $$$$

-Is a loose cannon

That spells R-I-S-K

Again, this is not Cromartie vs Wilson as much as it is Cromartie vs Risk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are you kidding me or what? This isnt Madden. Routes and plays are designed to offset the Defense. What happens when a team has 2-3 decent WRs who covers them? Kyle Wilson is not ready and the defense will suffer with him at CB. Lose Cro and lose 1 of the best defenses in the league.

How do you know if Kyle Wilson is ready or not ? From what I saw he had no problem covering guys, his issue was turning for the ball or more of a timing issue which he will learn with experience.

If a guy like Cro wants ridiculous money then we send him packing so the team is not strapped. If you notice the top teams are always able to plug in players when needed, its time that happens in this organization as well. Look at the Colts, Patriots, and Steelers these teams regularly plug holes with players to replace older players or FA losses its why they are at or near the top contenders every year for the past ten years + .

I think Kyle Wilson will do a fine job at corner and Revis has always moved where he needs to go. They worked together (revis and wilson) this offseason (from what Ive read here ) so that could very well turn out good for the Jets both monetarily and on the field.

Also the Jets defense is a pressure defense, we may not get alot of sacks but its designed to hurry the QB. That in itself creates problems for offenses and plays directly into Revis hands since hes insanely good at the Line of Scrimmage, one of the best ever quite frankly. That means when a QB looks at his number one he has less than a second to adjust since we get to the QB right at around 3.0 seconds. Wilson can and I think will adapt very nicely hes got the tools its all about learning and having the chance.... Revis was a good player his first year he had his issues (although slight) and worked through them I say we give this kid the shot and ship Cro, his kids, and his no tackling a$$, out of here and use the money in other areas of need.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love tanny, but let's face it, the jets are going to lose 3-4 guys, probably starters

and they won't have a draft to fill in the holes

and we really don't have a RT on the roster

can the lock out go on a few more weeks ?

I see the frenzy after the lockout ends an exodus of sorts from the jets

lets be real, players play for cheeze, not coaches

lets just pray the pats*, colts, steelers and chargers don't wind up with cro, holmes or beast

Link to comment
Share on other sites

WITHOUT CROMARTIE THE NYJETS DEFENSE WILL SUFFER BIGTIME.

Do you understand that? Teams will not throw at Revis and they will purposely scheme away from him. Kyle Wilson is not ready!

You don't think you're overstating the case just a tad? :lol:

I expect the Jets to make Cromartie a very fair offer. It won't be the top offer he can get, though. It'll be up to him if he wants to accept that fair offer, or if he wants to chase the money.

You're seriously trying to blame a loss in a game where the Jets defense gave up 10 points on a defender? Are you kidding me?

Yeah.

Not only that, but Kyle Wilson demonstrated in his very first game as a pro that he would not be ready a year later, either. You could just see it. Plain as day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're seriously trying to blame a loss in a game where the Jets defense gave up 10 points on a defender? Are you kidding me?

Kyle Wilson got beat like a drum that game on every ball thrown his way. During the season I never really saw any improvement how about you?

I stick to my guns on what I believe to be true. Pipe dreams and what ifs about Kyle Wilson doing just fine as a replacement for Cro arent winning us a Super Bowl.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kyle Wilson got beat like a drum that game on every ball thrown his way. During the season I never really saw any improvement how about you?

I stick to my guns on what I believe to be true. Pipe dreams and what ifs about Kyle Wilson doing just fine as a replacement for Cro arent winning us a Super Bowl.

yeah but

name all the WR's currently under contract with the NYJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kyle Wilson got beat like a drum that game on every ball thrown his way. During the season I never really saw any improvement how about you?

I stick to my guns on what I believe to be true. Pipe dreams and what ifs about Kyle Wilson doing just fine as a replacement for Cro arent winning us a Super Bowl.

Wilson certainly didn't play all that well in his first career game, but if he was really so unbelievably awful don't you think the Ravens would've managed a bit more than 10 points? The fact is that even in that game, he was doing a pretty damn good job of staying on his receiver, which is exactly why the ball wasn't getting thrown at him every play. The problem was he certainly was not doing a good job of playing the ball in the air. That said, I think he absolutely showed improvement over the course of the year. Good enough to start? I don't know, but I certainly trust Rex to make that decision. Granted he wasn't getting the kind of playing time later in the season that he was during Revis' out of shape / injured period, but I assure you that you'll have a lot tougher time finding instances of Wilson getting beaten up too much late in the season. The fact is that Wilson was a great prospect coming out of school, and was very highly graded by a pretty damn good scouting team, GM and defensive head coach. The idea that a rough start to his rookie year spells doom for his entire career is just a tad too extreme. That doesn't mean that they should necessarily count on him being a top level starter this season, but it also doesn't mean that the guy can't be a legit CB for this team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

forget the cap for a second

let's say the cap was 500 million dollars

does anyone really believe that santonio holmes, braylon edwards or antonio cromartie are sound investments? that their performance on their 2nd contract will be as good as (or better than) their performance on their 1st contract? It's a serious questions.

There's a reason why Revis, Brick and Mangold are already locked up, and these other guys aren't. It's not just talent it's reliability and dependability.

I personally wouldn't trustthese fools to go get me a bag of wise potato chips from the corner store.

I'm hoping we run out there with just Brad Smith and Jericho Cotchery again. Because, those guys are reliable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's what I don't get. Ok, people are saying, let's go and re-sign two of the following three: Cro, Edwards, Holmes.

Ok, fine. I would be happy with that, really.

The problem is... we have about 10 more free agents. What about both of the Smiths.. Ellis, Pool, Coleman, Folk, Weatherford, Ighedibo, Woody/Hunter...?????

It's Madden, baby. No punts and go for 2 on every conversion.

I like Bryan Thomas a lot...

You and his mother. I doubt anyone else does.

I would rather have that than a player who is as dumb as a box of rocks, and will turn soft as soon as he signs big money.

No way I spend big money on Cromartie expecting future contributions. Too high risk.

Wait. This is Cromartie before he turns soft? Is he going to become a jellyfish?

Are you kidding me or what? This isnt Madden. Routes and plays are designed to offset the Defense. What happens when a team has 2-3 decent WRs who covers them? Kyle Wilson is not ready and the defense will suffer with him at CB. Lose Cro and lose 1 of the best defenses in the league.

In 2009 Revis had a tremendous number of balls thrown his way despite haven't Lito Sheppard and his numerous injury replacements on the other side. I'm quite sure the percentage was higher for 2009 than 2010. Rex got teams to throw at Revis instead of Dwight Lowery. Something tells me that he can do it with Wilson or some other FA pickup. Cromartie is nice, but not essential. He's also not the best FA CB out there. He's not 2nd best either.

If they sign Cro dont they also get a kick returner/punt returner.Remember his return during the playoffs? Brad Smith is a goner so this makes more sense. Did you see Kyle Wilson play last year? TV showed nothing. This guy was beaten badly every play.

I don't think Cromartie returns punts and they already drafted a returner (Kerley) and have Leonhard and Cotchery coming back for punts.

yeah but

name all the WR's currently under contract with the NYJ

Jerricho Cotchery, Logan Payne, Patrick Turner and Jeff Cumberland (WR/TE). Murderer's ******* Row! Presumably they will be able to sign draft picks Jeremy Kerley and Scottie McKnight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont think that Wilson forgot how to play DB once he got to the NFL. He was playing a new position and a technically different position in Nickleback. I am hoping that spending the summer with Revis will bring him back to what Rex drafted. TBH, with Revis and Cro, he should have grown a ton last year and I think it showed with his last half of the season.

We will see how his second season goes, I think the doubters will be surprised.

As far as Cro goes, the dood is effing dense...BUT he can fly and cover ANY deep threat man 2 man. I remember everyone saying that is the reason we brought him here to play man 2 man and not zone. So to say that Rex likes to play zone is incorrect at least for his corners, he would rather have 2 shut down corners and play a nine man defense imo...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont think that Wilson forgot how to play DB once he got to the NFL. He was playing a new position and a technically different position in Nickleback. I am hoping that spending the summer with Revis will bring him back to what Rex drafted. TBH, with Revis and Cro, he should have grown a ton last year and I think it showed with his last half of the season.

We will see how his second season goes, I think the doubters will be surprised.

As far as Cro goes, the dood is effing dense...BUT he can fly and cover ANY deep threat man 2 man. I remember everyone saying that is the reason we brought him here to play man 2 man and not zone. So to say that Rex likes to play zone is incorrect at least for his corners, he would rather have 2 shut down corners and play a nine man defense imo...

I think more correctly he would rather the flexibility to do either on any given play and not have to worry about a $9-10M CB ever being a liability.

Save the cap space, use Wilson and figure his career will get better than his first NFL game, and pick up a 3rd round comp pick.

If the Jets make a major offer to Cromartie, in the $8M/year range or more, then I will concede that Rex thinks Wilson will always be terrible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...