jgb Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 American people have had enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boozer76 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 More accurately it's likely the Chinese who have had enough, seeing as they own like half our economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boozer76 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 I think of our economy and government these days and all I keep thinking is..Learn to Swim, Learn to swim, learn to swim, learn to swim........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Worldwide economic problems slow or no growth except in China and Brazil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serphnx Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Yeah the economy just crashed. I've lost about $20k the past few weeks (lol...it's not really funny in a true sense but just looking at it...lol). So the question is now, who do we blame, and where's the bottom? I don't see any support until 10k on the DJIA and 1k on the S&P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowmoe57 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 I weathered the storm last time I will weather it again -- ******* idiots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 funny how no one ever starts a thread when the market is up and yes... it's been up, alot in the last couple years. Mar 08 2009 the DJA low was 6626 right now it's trading at 11552 sure a 3% correction in a day sucks but cmon. that's what it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serphnx Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 funny how no one ever starts a thread when the market is up and yes... it's been up, alot in the last couple years. Mar 08 2009 the DJA low was 6626 right now it's trading at 11552 sure a 3% correction in a day sucks but cmon. that's what it does. Dude, it's down about 11% or so from the past 9 sessions, essentially starting July 24 all it did was go down, down, down. And yes nobody posts when it is up because it's obvious it's up but it was disconnected from reality. That's why we're in correction now. It's funny, everyone knew Wall St. was phony yet as long as it stayed up we didn't care. Now we do... And if it's just a down 3% today and we start retracing up starting tomorrow to the levels from before? I shall buy you a steak dinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 And yes nobody posts when it is up because it's obvious it's up but it was disconnected from reality. the market is reality. also... watch it recover some by the end of the day. there's alot of volatility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 the market is reality. also... watch it recover some by the end of the day. there's alot of volatility Really ? The HFT machines which pump up the market on vapor volume says HI! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serphnx Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 the market is reality. also... watch it recover some by the end of the day. there's alot of volatility I don't think a small recovery will even matter. You really don't understand the crisis levels we are at. Everything is screaming recession or even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 I don't think a small recovery will even matter. You really don't understand the crisis levels we are at. Everything is screaming recession or even worse. The US markets are not just a reflection of American economy it's a global economy. things happening in Greece, Italy and Libya have a big effect on what happens in NY. Again, 6000 was a crisis this is a correction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotReign37 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 The US markets are not just a reflection of American economy it's a global economy. things happening in Greece, Italy and Libya have a big effect on what happens in NY. Again, 6000 was a crisis this is a correction. I agree. Its perpetuating. Any bad news at all and the market goes down and creates more bad news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serphnx Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 The US markets are not just a reflection of American economy it's a global economy. things happening in Greece, Italy and Libya have a big effect on what happens in NY. Again, 6000 was a crisis this is a correction. The S&P is down 4% now as I write this. Waiting until after the crash to say it's a crash is rather pointless. This is a correction signalling a crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Of Bavaria Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Of Bavaria Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serphnx Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 5% now. How can anyone have confidence in the bozos in Washington DC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryK Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 1840--------------1900--------------1977------------1996------- Since then Manufacturing -- Automobiles -- Computers -- Internet --- ??? The above innovations have vastly improved American GDP compared to the rest of the world, giving us a huge advantage for 150yrs. 1996 was 14yrs ago and since then we haven't done s***t. We haven't invented s***t. What's the next invention to push GDP and put us on top? *Batteries/Wind/Alt energy? Nope. We dragged our a$$ and Europe/China own us on that one. *Facebook? That app has probably lowered GDP. *Particle physics? Sorry, we never finished our Supercollider in the 80's. The LHC's owners in Europe will probably let Americans peek in the window if we ask real nice. Someone needs to invent something really important really fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 1840--------------1900--------------1977------------1996------- Since then Manufacturing -- Automobiles -- Computers -- Internet --- ??? The above innovations have vastly improved American GDP compared to the rest of the world, giving us a huge advantage for 150yrs. 1996 was 14yrs ago and since then we haven't done s***t. We haven't invented s***t. What's the next invention to push GDP and put us on top? *Batteries/Wind/Alt energy? Nope. We dragged our a$$ and Europe/China own us on that one. *Facebook? That app has probably lowered GDP. *Particle physics? Sorry, we never finished our Supercollider in the 80's. The LHC's owners in Europe will probably let Americans peek in the window if we ask real nice. Someone needs to invent something really important really fast. well, once the sun goes into a high cycle, in 5-10 years, everyone is gonna need spf 200 sunscreen and water filters and ammo may come in handy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serphnx Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Apparently selling out the American middle class eventually catches up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted August 4, 2011 Author Share Posted August 4, 2011 If you spend more money then you generate ad infinitum, what do you expect? 1 surplus in the last 30 years. The leaders all need to be thrown out on their asses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 This time its different... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotReign37 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 1840--------------1900--------------1977------------1996------- Since then Manufacturing -- Automobiles -- Computers -- Internet --- ??? The above innovations have vastly improved American GDP compared to the rest of the world, giving us a huge advantage for 150yrs. 1996 was 14yrs ago and since then we haven't done s***t. We haven't invented s***t. Al Gore invented the internet. Thats something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotReign37 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 http://www.cnbc.com/id/44017828 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirlancemehlot Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 If you spend more money then you generate ad infinitum, what do you expect? 1 surplus in the last 30 years. The leaders all need to be thrown out on their asses. That surplus was fairly recent. The problem is: America refuses to scarifice anymore. You can't fight two wars without raising taxes. In WWII they slowed manufacturing of anything not war related, sold bonds, encouraged victory gardens, horded steel, tin, aluminum, nylon, etc., and the public did without in order to support the war effort. Today we get pissed at paying tax and don't even see the war in our newspapers. It's a culture shift. Rome became decadent and fell. We will collapse while watching Real Housewives of Bimidji Minnesota. Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelticwizard Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 You really don't understand the crisis levels we are at. Everything is screaming recession or even worse. The usual suspects have been screaming "double-dip recession" at every lull in the GDP, stock market or jobs report for the last 2.5 years. Yet all three are significantly improved from where they were two and a half years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 5% now. How can anyone have confidence in the bozos in Washington DC? i dont get this logic. for several reasons 1st, governments don't really control the market. Even China, with full totalitarian gov't can't really control their economy. No one can predict the market, and no one can control it. That's capitalism. there are always booms and busts with capitalism, that's how it works. 2nd if a 1 day drop signals a lack of confidence what does 2 and half years of gains signal? you are cherry picking the data to back a political conclusion. why does this thread exist only on a sharp decline day, why doesn't anyone post when the market goes up (and it does go up, quite a bit). end of the day gov't to the economy is like coaching to a football team. It can help and it can even make the difference in small situations but Bellichek never won jack without Brady and Parcells never won jack without Lawrence Taylor. Just as coaches need talent, the gov't needs fundamentals, and it's mostly out of their control. Like a head coach a President takes credit when the economy is great (and blame when it's bad) but let's be real was Bill Clinton an economic genius? or just a guy getting benefit from a good set of circumstances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serphnx Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Because there are certain technical indicators that show problems. One is called the VIX, that is a fear index. It topped 30 yesterday, which is a cutoff point for recessions. Back in 2009 it hit that too...at no point in the past 2.5 years after that has it gotten over 25. Until pretty much the past week or two. Second is technical levels in moving averages on the S&P as well as key support levels. Those were breached yesterday as well, hence the big drop. Stocks tend to drop quickly but move up slowly. We'll see how things go today, I want to see a move up a bit the next 5 days or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus One Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Because there are certain technical indicators that show problems. One is called the VIX, that is a fear index. It topped 30 yesterday, which is a cutoff point for recessions. Back in 2009 it hit that too...at no point in the past 2.5 years after that has it gotten over 25. Until pretty much the past week or two. Second is technical levels in moving averages on the S&P as well as key support levels. Those were breached yesterday as well, hence the big drop. Stocks tend to drop quickly but move up slowly. We'll see how things go today, I want to see a move up a bit the next 5 days or so. You have things backwards on the VIX. (Not to mention your information is wrong). The VIX over 30 is not a "cutoff point for recessions" (I actually had to laugh out loud when I read that). Essentially, it's a measure of what investors are willing to pay for portfolio insurance. When it's high, it indicates high levels of fear. When it is low, it is a sign of complacency. As such, it is a contrary indicator. VIX over 30 indicates an oversold condition. VIX was at 29 last August. If you bought the S&P then, you made 27% over the next 6 months. Vix topped 30 this March, on the day of the Japan earthquake. If you bought the S&P then, you made 8% in the next month and a half. That's not to say things can't get worse from here. The VIX got as high as 89 back in 2008, which proved to be an incredible buying opportunity. As a matter of fact, if you just bought the S&P everytime the VIX went over 30, and sold it everytime the VIX went under 15, you'd be a rich man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryK Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 In market parlance, I think our economy doesn't have the 'fundamentals' to come out of our current state. In any given decade, we've had a super-monopoly of some technology or industrial base...but that's gone. China hurts us, but I don't think they can beat us long-term because they're beholden to raw material imports, and because their wages will rise over time. But why did we send our middle class there in the first place? We need to stop seeing the 'middle class' as a political term, and start seeing it as the enormous customer base whose incomes created wealth for businesses all over the country. I hope to see us put a value on helping businesses in small towns compete again. I think we were all better off paying a few bucks more for shoes from Mr. Smith downtown, rather than Wal-Mart. Local wealth supported youth baseball leagues, sponsored community events and festivals, and most of that is gone now. It's all good capitalism, but I think we had it working better a couple decades ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serphnx Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 You have things backwards on the VIX. (Not to mention your information is wrong). The VIX over 30 is not a "cutoff point for recessions" (I actually had to laugh out loud when I read that). Essentially, it's a measure of what investors are willing to pay for portfolio insurance. When it's high, it indicates high levels of fear. When it is low, it is a sign of complacency. As such, it is a contrary indicator. VIX over 30 indicates an oversold condition. VIX was at 29 last August. If you bought the S&P then, you made 27% over the next 6 months. Vix topped 30 this March, on the day of the Japan earthquake. If you bought the S&P then, you made 8% in the next month and a half. That's not to say things can't get worse from here. The VIX got as high as 89 back in 2008, which proved to be an incredible buying opportunity. As a matter of fact, if you just bought the S&P everytime the VIX went over 30, and sold it everytime the VIX went under 15, you'd be a rich man. Ok, you go and buy things up right now. Go ahead. You probably don't even own any securities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus One Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Ok, you go and buy things up right now. Go ahead. You probably don't even own any securities. Don't get nasty with me because you don't know what the VIX is. Oh, and I'm buying greedily right now. Talk to me in 6 months. I'll buy you dinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serphnx Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Don't get nasty with me because you don't know what the VIX is. Oh, and I'm buying greedily right now. Talk to me in 6 months. I'll buy you dinner. Since yesterday you've lost more money, since it passed 30 yesterday and according to you that's when you bought. And I'll take you up on that offer in 6 months. Let's add a Jets playoff game to the deal just for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus One Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Since yesterday you've lost more money, since it passed 30 yesterday and according to you that's when you bought. And I'll take you up on that offer in 6 months. Let's add a Jets playoff game to the deal just for fun. Actually, I'm about flat from where I started buying yesterday. But, I don't really look at things on a day to day basis. Bought more this morning. Still have plenty of dry powder incase the sheep keep selling over the next week or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serphnx Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Actually, I'm about flat from where I started buying yesterday. But, I don't really look at things on a day to day basis. Bought more this morning. Still have plenty of dry powder incase the sheep keep selling over the next week or so. I haven't sold out anything, but I used to be a trader. If I was still actively trading I would be up about 30% in the past week. Thing is I know work a full time day job and I'm specifically banned from trading. I make less money than I can trading but it's a steady paycheck, easier and with much less stress. Actually no real stress. But old habits die hard. I will probably buy more when I start seeing an upswing, I do not think this is the bottom. I don't actually need any of the money I have in securities so it doesn't matter, but just purely psychologically I have not enjoyed the past few days. I'm a lot better today, decided I don't care until I get home and then I'll check. My day job pays me well enough and I have plenty of cash in reserve...just wanted to get enough through the market to pay off my student loans in one shot by next year. Was on a great pace to do it too (before taxes). Oh well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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