122 replies to this topic

[slats]

Provocative title, but only the salary cap novice part is remotely true.

Tannenbaum sucks at drafting, and worse, he's afraid of drafting. He locks onto a couple players every year, and some of those hit, but he would always rather spend picks that should represent developing players on expensive veterans. It tied the team's hands this year, and will do so again next year.

Just since 2008 he's traded away three 3rds, three 5ths, a second and a fourth. Those are picks that should be the depth of the team. All the positions where they're thin should've been addressed with those picks. Lots of LB, S, RB, and OL in those middle rounds. But Tannenbaum has no confidence in himself or his scouting team, so instead those picks went for overpriced vets who are either no longer here, or more overpriced than ever before. Only Cromartie really worked out, and that's only because they (thankfully!) whiffed on Nnamdi.

The handing out of guaranteed money is a recent development, which basically came about because he was running out of even future cap space. The result is the Sanchez and Bart Scott black hole deals.

There's a light at the end of the tunnel coming up in 2014. Tannenbaum can't be allowed to stay for 2013, because he will -without a doubt- simply look to increase the length of that tunnel in an effort to save his own ass. Again.

[bitonti]

Tannenbaum sucks at drafting, and worse, he's afraid of drafting.

I am playing devils advocate here. I know tanny deserves to be fired. but this man drafted Revis, Mangold, Brick, Harris and Mo Wilkerson. He's very good at high picks. He's below average in the late rounds. But cmon. To say he sucks at drafting is ignoring these picks, including the Revis pick which was arguably the best pick since Willy. Over 40+ years of Jets history, that pick was top 2.

[slats]

I am playing devils advocate here. I know tanny deserves to be fired. but this man drafted Revis, Mangold, Brick, Harris and Mo Wilkerson. He's very good at high picks. He's below average in the late rounds. But cmon. To say he sucks at drafting is ignoring these picks, including the Revis pick which was arguably the best pick since Willy. Over 40+ years of Jets history, that pick was top 2.

Revis is an all-time great, the rest are just contributors. Drafting contributors in the first round, or first 50 picks, or whatever, isn't any great challenge. His overall job is to build a team, he sucks at that. You need a number of overachievers every year to build a contender, but trading away picks for overpriced veterans means never having guys who are outperforming their deals.

How much better would this team be with a few more Jeremy Kerley types? Tannenbaum has pissed away the opportunity to draft more of those guys.

Sanchez, Clemens, Gholston, Wilson, and Ducasse all say hi. Not to mention the boar hunter.

[bitonti]

Revis is an all-time great, the rest are just contributors.

this sells short Mangold who is a perennial all Pro. again I am mostly on the "fire Tanny" bandwagon but let's not sit here and pretend everything is s--t just cause the Jets are losing. They have had some very good picks in the last few years.

i also think it's inaccurate to lump Wilson and Vlad (and even Sanchez) in with Gholston. These guys are all starters. VG was a pure bust.

Edited by bitonti, 30 November 2012 - 01:57 PM.

[slats]

this sells short Mangold who is a perennial all Pro. again I am mostly on the "fire Tanny" bandwagon but let's not sit here and pretend everything is s--t just cause the Jets are losing. They have had some very good picks in the last few years.

i also think it's inaccurate to lump Wilson and Vlad (and even Sanchez) in with Gholston. These guys are all starters. VG was a pure bust.

I like Mangold a lot, but there's really no such thing as an impact center. The Jets needed OL help, and took the best center in the draft in the first round. Not exactly a brilliant selection.

And Wilson, Ducasse, and Sanchez are starters? On what other team? I give all the Jets' picks the benefit of the doubt for far longer than they deserve, and you go further than me. Lol. The jury is in, those are three terrible picks.

[bitonti]

And Wilson, Ducasse, and Sanchez are starters? On what other team? I give all the Jets' picks the benefit of the doubt for far longer than they deserve, and you go further than me. Lol. The jury is in, those are three terrible picks.

My point is we only talk about the the "terrible" picks, to ignore the genius of the Revis pick is not fair. Also you are selling Mangold short. He's arguably the best interior lineman in the game, and if you say he's not an impact player, look at the 3 games they lost him last year.

[slats]

you are selling Mangold short. He's arguably the best interior lineman in the game, and if you say he's not an impact player, look at the 3 games they lost him last year.

Because the Jets had no depth behind him, because Tannenbaum traded away eight picks between the 2nd and 5th rounds over the last four years instead of bringing in a couple quality mid-round developmental players.

The advanced stats guys can do the argument better justice, but there's not much difference in productivity on an offense when you go from a HoF'er at center to a player of average ability.

[T0mShane]

So, the debate topics of the day have been 1. Does Tannenbaum suck? 2. Does Ducasse suck? and, 3. Do NFL coaches matter?

Just End The Season.

[bitonti]

Because the Jets had no depth behind him,

because Rob Turner broke his leg in preseason. Again I understand why we want to fire Tanny but sometimes s--t happens and firing someone doesn't make it better.

[dbatesman]

s--t happens and firing someone doesn't make it better.

Does someone honestly have to explain this to you again?

[bitonti]

Does someone honestly have to explain this to you again?

im sad you chose to use words instead of a sarcastic gif.

[dbatesman]

im sad you chose to use words instead of a sarcastic gif.

[unbanmadmike1]

this sells short Mangold who is a perennial all Pro. again I am mostly on the "fire Tanny" bandwagon but let's not sit here and pretend everything is s--t just cause the Jets are losing. They have had some very good picks in the last few years.

i also think it's inaccurate to lump Wilson and Vlad (and even Sanchez) in with Gholston. These guys are all starters. VG was a pure bust.

If you have a team where HORRIBLE players like Vlad Ducasse and Kyle Wilson need to start, you have a terrible team.

[#27TheDominator]

Revis was a better draft pick than Namath. Namath was #1 overall. The Colts could make that pick. Are they geniuses for ending up with Peyton Manning, Luck and Jeff George? Hell they even had the Elway slot.

[Sperm Edwards]

I like Mangold a lot, but there's really no such thing as an impact center. The Jets needed OL help, and took the best center in the draft in the first round. Not exactly a brilliant selection.

And Wilson, Ducasse, and Sanchez are starters? On what other team? I give all the Jets' picks the benefit of the doubt for far longer than they deserve, and you go further than me. Lol. The jury is in, those are three terrible picks.

Plus he cut Mawae well before the draft - more importantly the last month or so of pre-draft shuffling of prospect rankings - and it was a pretty obvious pick for us. We had no center, Mangold was that rare center with true first round value, and he was conveniently there for us at the bottom of the round. I'd classify this as one of those "better to be lucky than good" situations than pure drafting acumen.

[bitonti]

thank you kind sir

[tEYbow]

this sells short Mangold who is a perennial all Pro. again I am mostly on the "fire Tanny" bandwagon but let's not sit here and pretend everything is s--t just cause the Jets are losing. They have had some very good picks in the last few years.

i also think it's inaccurate to lump Wilson and Vlad (and even Sanchez) in with Gholston. These guys are all starters. VG was a pure bust.

Mangold plays center. He's great, but he's a center. Further, Tannenbaum doesn't get genius status for selecting the highest rated center and having it pay off. Same goes for Revis... D'Brick too....

7 years and he still has no QB.... He's been a failure.

[jetstilldeath77]

I often wonder, did Mangini's input during free agency and the draft lead to better players. Minus Gholston, Mangini and Tannenbaum had some success. I feel like, since Rex showed up, we've been dog sh*t in the draft and free agency. Just a thought, anybody else see this too or am I crazy?

[BlackDynamite]

There is lots of talk about Jets general manager Mike Tannenbaum and whether he’ll be back with the team next season. Tannenbaum is often described as a “salary cap genius” in regards to his knowledge of contracts and the cap process but his drafting and talent evaluation gets criticized as causing an overall decline in the Jets roster.

Tannenbaum’s record doesn’t really show he’s earned the reputation as a great “capologist” and a bad drafter. It was Tannenbaum who built a team that went to the AFC championship game in 2009-10 including an 11 win season during that 2010 year, with the same coach and quarterback. This quarterback/coach combination has been 12-15 since the end of the 2010 season.
Many of the players who led to the team’s success were obtained during 2006-07 offseasons, which the Jets had 14 draft picks and traded back in the 2007 second round acquiring RB Thomas Jones.

Taking a look at the Jets drafts against other teams shows that Tannenbaum has not done a bad job with the actual draft picks he’s made since 2008. The New England Patriots had 40 picks from 2008-11 with 11 prospects working out, while the Houston Texans had 32 picks with 13 helping the team but the Jets had 19 picks with 11 contributing.

Now this analysis is subjective and these other teams had extra players to choose from, so the Jets may have been forced to stick with their picks more than teams with a higher number of prospects, but when Tannenbaum misses on a player, like Vladimir Ducasse, it is heightened by the Jets having so few picks.

The Jets were one of the most aggressive teams in the league and “trader Mike” would do whatever it took over the last several years to fill holes:

• 2008) Jets trade a 3^rd (67) & 5^th (141) to Carolina Panthers for NT/DT Kris Jenkins. (2008 – 16 games, 2009 – 6 games, 2010 – 1 game).
• 2009) Jets trade 3^rd (83) to Green Bay Packers for QB Brett Favre (One season, 2008).
• Jets trade 5^th (153) to Philadelphia Eagles for CB Lito Sheppard (One season 2009).
• 2010) Jets trade 3^rd (92) & 5^th (160) to Cleveland Browns for WR Braylon Edwards (12 games 2009, 16 games 2010).
• Jets trade 4^th (127) to Philadelphia Eagles for CB Lito Sheppard, get 5^th (155) from Philadelphia Eagles.
• Jets trade 5^th (155), acquired from Philadelphia Eagles, to the Pittsburgh Steelers for WR Santonio Holmes (Became a free agent after 2010 season, resigned by Jets 5 years, $50 million, $24 million guaranteed).
• 2011) Jets trade 2^nd (61) to San Diego Chargers for CB Antonio Cromartie (Became a free agent in 2011, resigned by Jets, 4 years, $32 million, $14 million guaranteed).
• 2012) Traded away QB Drew Stanton, for the Indianapolis Colts sixth round pick (187), his $500,000 signing bonus remained on the salary cap, after acquiringQB Tim Tebow from the Denver Broncos for the Jets 4^th (108) & 6^th (188) taking on an additional $1.75 million in 2012 along with $1.03 million in guaranteed 2013 salary, (Tebow’s 2012 season, 6-of-7 for 39 yards passing, 87 yards rushing in 29 attempts, 3.0 average).

Tannenbaum has traded up 6 times since the 2008 draft and has traded back once givinga 4^th (102) to the Green Bay Packers for their 4^th (113 – DB Dwight Lowery) and 5^th (162 – QB Erik Ainge, 2008). So Tannenbaum chose to build the team since 2008 via free agency, veterans for draft picks and draft trade-ups for the “ready-made” rather than developmental players.

Here are some contract decisions Tannenbaum made as well:

• 2010) Renegotiated/caved to Darrelle Revis’ demands with 3 years remaining on his current contract giving him a 4 year, $46 million, $32 million guaranteed, “band aid” contract. Revis becomes a free agent after the 2013 season and can’t be restricted (franchised) in anyway by the Jets.
• 2011) Signed LB David Harris, 4 year $36 million, $29.5 million guaranteed (biggest contract of any ILB in NFL history).
• Cut LB Bart Scott’s 2011 salary by a $1 million agreeing to guarantee his $4.2 million 2012 salary.
• 2012) Gave QB Mark Sanchez a contract extension worth $20.5 million fully guaranteed over 2012/13.

Tannenbaum’s team building strategy, not using the draft, along with bad contract decisions has led the Jets to deal with salary issues stifling the team’s ability to make roster changes/maneuvers. The fact that they were cautious during free agency in 2012 signing mostly one year deals, have not been willing to make in-season trades, sign many available free agents or make waiver claims for higher priced players to fill holes, shows the team was forced to take a different approach.

The Jets became very salary top heavy with almost half their 2012 cap space tied up in the pay of 7 players without the ability to get much relief. They’re a projected $19 million over the 2013 cap with many current starters heading to free agency after 2012.
Assuming Tannenbaum had the autonomy, Woody Johnson didn’t force him, to make decisions Tannenbaum is a “salary cap genius” alright, he’s a genius at putting the team over the cap, restricting necessary moves, but his drafts were not bad compared to others in the league.

A true “cap guru” would not use this fiscal irresponsible ultra aggressive building style because he’d know the end result would be a quick decline in talent with no way to improve the roster given the financial constraints.

So next time you hear Mike Tannenbaum is a “cap guy” not a “draft guy”, think again, because you’d wonder if any team in the league will want him to manage their salary cap after what he’s done to the Jets?

I see you failed to give Jason Malito his due for this article over at NYJetsCap.com, and passed this off as your own.....

Nice!
BD

[BlackDynamite]

Tannenbaum's recent history has been pretty bad, so that's why he will be canned after the season.
The Harris, Scott, and Sanchez deals have all hurt the team, irreparably. In fact, the team's success has followed his leadership arc.

His first few years were much better, and so were the results.....
BD