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The two safeties vs Watson/Mahomes and Cook

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4 hours ago, j4jets said:

Ed Reed? lol seriously? That D didn't happen to have 6-7 other pro bowlers did it? Idzik was crucified cuz he passed on Carr cuz he had Geno. Come to think of it, Macc has passed on several potentially good QBs cuz he had who exactly? Your rebuild starts with the QB unless you have the decades best D, which we obviously don't. We certainly are rebuilding, but how does that make it right? And yes, when you have chumps like Hack, you SHOULD draft a QB. WTF is Mac waiting for? A roster void of any offensive talent, in a rebuild, yet we have no QB worth a crap. Rebuild doesn't mean you ignore the QB, the most important position in the game. Safety? I'd rank that around 8th most important position on the D. On the D alone. And we draft two with our first picks while ignoring everything else. 

If you're going to tell me that we needed 2 safeties to help this rebuild above all positions, then you need a reality check. How many safeties are canton bound in the Pats dynasty? How about in all the games/SBs Mannings have won? Please bring up Ed Reed, one of the best safety to ever play the game, and tell me how many SB trophies he has lined up in his exhibition hall. Yeah, possibly the best safety in the league history. Anamoly? I don't think so. So please keep your nonsense to yourself and accept the fact Mac ****ed up two years in a row, which forced us to go into a complete rebuild mode. 

isn't rodney harrison in the hof?  he wasn't drafted by the patsies and was pretty good in san diego.  as for others, bob sanders made the manning superbowl team tick and ronnie lott did pretty well on the raiders.  so did ron woodson. i agree that safties shouldn't be drafted as safeties but that because the good ones are converted corners.

i agree that they needed to pick up another qb in this past years draft.  i don't necessarily agree that picking one higher than the fourth round would've been very smart given the overall weakness after trubitsky.  the thing is the jets what they are and we just have to see the season play out.

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5 hours ago, j4jets said:

Ed Reed? lol seriously? That D didn't happen to have 6-7 other pro bowlers did it? Idzik was crucified cuz he passed on Carr cuz he had Geno. Come to think of it, Macc has passed on several potentially good QBs cuz he had who exactly? Your rebuild starts with the QB unless you have the decades best D, which we obviously don't. We certainly are rebuilding, but how does that make it right? And yes, when you have chumps like Hack, you SHOULD draft a QB. WTF is Mac waiting for? A roster void of any offensive talent, in a rebuild, yet we have no QB worth a crap. Rebuild doesn't mean you ignore the QB, the most important position in the game. Safety? I'd rank that around 8th most important position on the D. On the D alone. And we draft two with our first picks while ignoring everything else. 

If you're going to tell me that we needed 2 safeties to help this rebuild above all positions, then you need a reality check. How many safeties are canton bound in the Pats dynasty? How about in all the games/SBs Mannings have won? Please bring up Ed Reed, one of the best safety to ever play the game, and tell me how many SB trophies he has lined up in his exhibition hall. Yeah, possibly the best safety in the league history. Anamoly? I don't think so. So please keep your nonsense to yourself and accept the fact Mac ****ed up two years in a row, which forced us to go into a complete rebuild mode. 

I need a reality check? Lol, read this nonsense.  You asked for a safety I gave you one and you pissed on bringing up other players on his team.  No shlt.  No one player wins a SB trophy for a team.  No matter th position.  There's your reality check

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6 hours ago, j4jets said:

Ed Reed? lol seriously? That D didn't happen to have 6-7 other pro bowlers did it? Idzik was crucified cuz he passed on Carr cuz he had Geno. Come to think of it, Macc has passed on several potentially good QBs cuz he had who exactly? Your rebuild starts with the QB unless you have the decades best D, which we obviously don't. We certainly are rebuilding, but how does that make it right? And yes, when you have chumps like Hack, you SHOULD draft a QB. WTF is Mac waiting for? A roster void of any offensive talent, in a rebuild, yet we have no QB worth a crap. Rebuild doesn't mean you ignore the QB, the most important position in the game. Safety? I'd rank that around 8th most important position on the D. On the D alone. And we draft two with our first picks while ignoring everything else. 

If you're going to tell me that we needed 2 safeties to help this rebuild above all positions, then you need a reality check. How many safeties are canton bound in the Pats dynasty? How about in all the games/SBs Mannings have won? Please bring up Ed Reed, one of the best safety to ever play the game, and tell me how many SB trophies he has lined up in his exhibition hall. Yeah, possibly the best safety in the league history. Anamoly? I don't think so. So please keep your nonsense to yourself and accept the fact Mac ****ed up two years in a row, which forced us to go into a complete rebuild mode. 

I wonder if Kam Chancellor and Earl Thomas  helped Seattle win their SB, when Wilson was a young QB?  They were picked in the same draft.  Im also curious how safety can be the 8th most important position on the defense.  DT, DE, ILB, OLB, CB - what are the 6th and 7th before you get to safety?

Im simply amazed that people are still ripping Mac for taking 2 players who by all accounts have had excellent camps, and were considered excellent values the way the draft fell, simply because of the position they play.  They arent punters or situational pass rushers or non-blocking tight ends, they play versatile, important, every down roles, in an area that was an enormous need for the team.  

Do you really think we should have trotted out Deshaun Watson with this group on offense, while also having Doug Middleton helping solidify the back end of our defense?

The FACT is that every young QB struggles, whether its peyton manning, pat mahomes or sam darnold.  Every single rookie QB needs a defense and strong team around him as they develop into NFL players.  Russel Wilson doesnt win a SB with out Lynch and that defense (again, solidified by 2 pro bowl safeties).  2 years ago Denver won a SB with a QB that couldnt throw over 12 yards, almost entirely due to their pass rush and secondary.  

The most amazing thing though about all these threads crying about watson, is that no one is critical of Macc for not taking Nathan Peterman in the middle rounds, or even signing Kyle Sloter who has looked excellent in Denver and was an UDFA.  Those are moves that should be debated, especially given how Peterman would fit in this offense.  Those are moves that could have helped bolster the position, overpaying for Deshaun Watson is not one of them.

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3 hours ago, rangerous said:

isn't rodney harrison in the hof?  he wasn't drafted by the patsies and was pretty good in san diego.  as for others, bob sanders made the manning superbowl team tick and ronnie lott did pretty well on the raiders.  so did ron woodson. i agree that safties shouldn't be drafted as safeties but that because the good ones are converted corners.

i agree that they needed to pick up another qb in this past years draft.  i don't necessarily agree that picking one higher than the fourth round would've been very smart given the overall weakness after trubitsky.  the thing is the jets what they are and we just have to see the season play out.

Rodney Harrison was a 5th round pick. Bob Sanders was a 2nd round pick. Ronnie Lott was drafted 8th overall as a cornerback and moved to safety four years later. Ron Woodson was drafted 10th overall but played 10 years of CB before moving to safety.

We're consistently drafting safeties with 1st round picks and QBs with 2nd round picks and we can't figure out why we're well on our way to 10 years in a row of not making the playoffs.

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WAAAAAAY too early. 

These threads are silly.

Lets start with Cook: RBs have a short lifespan. If Cook end up being a stud (yet to be seen) but his career ends in 4 years (maybe due to injury, maybe wear and tear?) and the Jets don;t win anything in that time, while Maye is a stud (too soon to tell) for the next 8-10 years (too soon to tell). Then the choice is clearly Maye. Duh. But that's why these threads are so silly. And it gets even tougher when talking about QBs b/c they need the right coaching, weapons around them, time to develop, maybe system?, and O-line. So even if the Jets drafted one of those QBs, there is no reason to assume they would have developed the same way.  

So far, mainly b/c Maye and Adams have looked very solid, there is nothing to suggest that Maccshoudl have drafted Mahomes/Watson and Cook over Adams and Maye.    

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11 hours ago, rangerous said:

isn't rodney harrison in the hof?  he wasn't drafted by the patsies and was pretty good in san diego.  as for others, bob sanders made the manning superbowl team tick and ronnie lott did pretty well on the raiders.  so did ron woodson. i agree that safties shouldn't be drafted as safeties but that because the good ones are converted corners.

i agree that they needed to pick up another qb in this past years draft.  i don't necessarily agree that picking one higher than the fourth round would've been very smart given the overall weakness after trubitsky.  the thing is the jets what they are and we just have to see the season play out.

Never mentioned about not picking a safety higher than 4th round but when you have an immediate need at several higher rated positions, you don't draft a safety at #6. Especially in a rebuild year. And yes, we are what we are. Which is possibly the worst offense in decades. 

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5 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

I need a reality check? Lol, read this nonsense.  You asked for a safety I gave you one and you pissed on bringing up other players on his team.  No shlt.  No one player wins a SB trophy for a team.  No matter th position.  There's your reality check

Would you like to bet that HOF and FHOF QBs have more SBs as oppose to safeties, even though there are two starting safeties?

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1 hour ago, j4jets said:

Would you like to bet that HOF and FHOF QBs have more SBs as oppose to safeties, even though there are two starting safeties?

Would you like to list all the shltty SB winning teams, the ones with mediocre lineups who have won SBs because of the QB. 

Ill bet you there are many more SBs who had good safeties on their roster than shltty sub .500 type rosters who were carried by their QB

Way to discect an argument with clear thought

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4 hours ago, j4jets said:

Never mentioned about not picking a safety higher than 4th round but when you have an immediate need at several higher rates positions, you don't draft a safety at #6. Especially in a rebuild year. And yes, we are what we are. Which is possibly the worst offense in a decades. 

i meant picking a qb in this year's draft in the 4th round given the relative strength of the draft. as for the safeties, the conventional route is to convert corners but obviously paying revis 16 million to try and be a safety wasn't going to be very smart.  i think the other part of this is that a number of teams did pick safeties in the upper rounds so for the jets to use the 6 pick wasn't such an anomaly.

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4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Would you like to list all the shltty SB winning teams, the ones with mediocre lineups who have won SBs because of the QB. 

Ill bet you there are many more SBs who had good safeties on their roster than shltty sub .500 type rosters who were carried by their QB

Way to discect an argument with clear thought

If you can't gasp the idea that QB is THE most important position on the field, then I'm afraid I can't help you. Please stop comparing a safety's value to a QBs value. Just trust me on that.

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On 8/20/2017 at 9:54 PM, Jet Nut said:

 No one was taking Mahomes at 6.  A month earlier he wasn't going in the first round.  Now fans have decided he worth it at 6.  

I told you from the get go he would go high in the draft and the Jets should take him at 6. 

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7 minutes ago, RJIII said:

I told you from the get go he would go high in the draft and the Jets should take him at 6. 

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Maybe I'm a tad old fashioned but I'm not sure what happened to ppl showing each other a little respect and decency.

Look, if you don't like the topic just move on to another. Posts like the above one offer no substance and debate, and only accomplishes degrading the thread into personal insults, which is odd since none of us actually know each other personally. 

Last I checked we are all dudes who like football and talking  all things Jets. Doesn't seem like a crazy thought to show one another some respect.  

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On 8/21/2017 at 5:57 PM, rangerous said:

it's like the guys who say they can trade to get this guy or that.  the last two qb's worth anything were winston and mariota and there was simply no way tampa was going to trade out and neither were the titans.  maybe wentz but philly wasn't trading out either.

Philly traded up for Wentz.

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On 8/22/2017 at 9:34 AM, BCJet said:

I wonder if Kam Chancellor and Earl Thomas  helped Seattle win their SB, when Wilson was a young QB?  They were picked in the same draft.  Im also curious how safety can be the 8th most important position on the defense.  DT, DE, ILB, OLB, CB - what are the 6th and 7th before you get to safety?

Im simply amazed that people are still ripping Mac for taking 2 players who by all accounts have had excellent camps, and were considered excellent values the way the draft fell, simply because of the position they play.  They arent punters or situational pass rushers or non-blocking tight ends, they play versatile, important, every down roles, in an area that was an enormous need for the team.  

Do you really think we should have trotted out Deshaun Watson with this group on offense, while also having Doug Middleton helping solidify the back end of our defense?

The FACT is that every young QB struggles, whether its peyton manning, pat mahomes or sam darnold.  Every single rookie QB needs a defense and strong team around him as they develop into NFL players.  Russel Wilson doesnt win a SB with out Lynch and that defense (again, solidified by 2 pro bowl safeties).  2 years ago Denver won a SB with a QB that couldnt throw over 12 yards, almost entirely due to their pass rush and secondary.  

The most amazing thing though about all these threads crying about watson, is that no one is critical of Macc for not taking Nathan Peterman in the middle rounds, or even signing Kyle Sloter who has looked excellent in Denver and was an UDFA.  Those are moves that should be debated, especially given how Peterman would fit in this offense.  Those are moves that could have helped bolster the position, overpaying for Deshaun Watson is not one of them.

You act like the draft was 2 players deep at safety.

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On 8/22/2017 at 11:16 AM, Jack Straw said:

Rodney Harrison was a 5th round pick. Bob Sanders was a 2nd round pick. Ronnie Lott was drafted 8th overall as a cornerback and moved to safety four years later. Ron Woodson was drafted 10th overall but played 10 years of CB before moving to safety.

We're consistently drafting safeties with 1st round picks and QBs with 2nd round picks and we can't figure out why we're well on our way to 10 years in a row of not making the playoffs.

Based on what we have seen thus far, and I like Maye and Adams, but the Jets would be a more balanced team, today, if they have drafted a QB and S, rather than S and S.  Could have been Mahomes and Maye, or Adams and Kizer.  

They definitely needed a safety.

There were other safeties available later on-Johnson, Jackson, for starters.

Let's see how Pat Elflein ends up.

I just don't think Macc gets the team assembly thing.

 

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15 hours ago, RJIII said:

I told you from the get go he would go high in the draft and the Jets should take him at 6. 

You wanted him at 6. No GM was taking him at 6.  He's a project QB, they don't go at.  He moved because the Kizers etc had bad seasons,  it was a questionable year for QBs

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13 hours ago, varjet said:

Based on what we have seen thus far, and I like Maye and Adams, but the Jets would be a more balanced team, today, if they have drafted a QB and S, rather than S and S.  Could have been Mahomes and Maye, or Adams and Kizer.  

They definitely needed a safety.

There were other safeties available later on-Johnson, Jackson, for starters.

Let's see how Pat Elflein ends up.

I just don't think Macc gets the team assembly thing.

 

More balanced for the future maybe, but in the short term it would not have made a difference at all in our immediate Qb dilemma. 

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11 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

More balanced for the future maybe, but in the short term it would not have made a difference at all in our immediate Qb dilemma. 

It might not be worth it for the future either . A strong defense is what got quite a few teams their start on the way to their SB and consistent winning . 

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35 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You wanted him at 6. No GM was taking him at 6.  He's a project QB, they don't go at.  He moved because the Kizers etc had bad seasons,  it was a questionable year for QBs

The NO GM is taking him at 6 is you just making sh*t up, if KC held the #6 pick simple logic says they would have taken Mahomes, but that doesn't fit your narrative.  And everyone in the know is stating that Mahomes isn't the project everyone assumed he was because they have stupid single minded thinking that air raid offense means can't play in NFL, let's just dismiss the kids once in a decade arm talent, and that can't get him by while he adjusts, and learns the NFL offense just like Favre did who didn't know what a Nickel defense was while he was slinging Touchdown passes all over the field, and leading his team to the playoffs while still learning how to understand the QB position in the NFL.

Also trust me Andy Reid doesn't make Mahomes QB 2 if he doesn't believe that Mahomes can go in and play at a moments notice if Alex Smith gets hurt, he keeps Bray as the #2.  You keep doubling down on this nonsense, and keep looking bad.  The 2017 QB draft class was only considered weak because people who are wrong, and single minded told you so in the media, and on ESPN, and NFL network yet contrary to their spewing nonsense 3 were taken in the top 12, AND teams traded up to get all 3, that doesn't tell me the NFL thought this class was bad, that tells me that there was plenty of guys in the league that thought these guys were more then developmental prospects considering all the hoopla about 2018 draft class, and A LOT of teams who don't get lucky, and land Darnold that needed QB's, and passed on one like the Jets in 2017 are gonna have egg on there face!

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Well regardless of the whole QB vs safety thing if Adams does not end up being Ed Reed or at the very very least Landon Collins then the pick was an atrocious joke.

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14 hours ago, varjet said:

Based on what we have seen thus far, and I like Maye and Adams, but the Jets would be a more balanced team, today, if they have drafted a QB and S, rather than S and S.  Could have been Mahomes and Maye, or Adams and Kizer.  

They definitely needed a safety.

There were other safeties available later on-Johnson, Jackson, for starters.

Let's see how Pat Elflein ends up.

I just don't think Macc gets the team assembly thing.

 

Eddie Jackson looks good, great find in the 4th round, same for Dede Westbrook, Jets could have went Mahomes, Cook, Jackson, Westbrook, with their first 4 picks, and came away with a Franchise QB, Game changing RB, decent Safety, AND punt returner, and a take the top off the defense threat to get 6 from a QB with the arm he can't out run, and the excitement around here even with not much expectations to make the playoffs the first year would be SO MUCH higher, and there would be a product on the field this year that would put fannies in the seats, and extremely fun to watch, and I don't think I'm asking much of a GM to make those decisions on draft night the way the roster was constructed, tell your HC to **** off with his inbred to interchangeable Safeties to make my useless defensive scheme work!

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2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Well regardless of the whole QB vs safety thing if Adams does not end up being Ed Reed or at the very very least Landon Collins then the pick was an atrocious joke.

Even if he does, and Mahomes, and Watson both become franchise QB's it's an atrocious joke.

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15 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Eddie Jackson looks good, great find in the 4th round, same for Dede Westbrook, Jets could have went Mahomes, Cook, Jackson, Westbrook, with their first 4 picks, and came away with a Franchise QB, Game changing RB, decent Safety, AND punt returner, and a take the top off the defense threat to get 6 from a QB with the arm he can't out run, and the excitement around here even with not much expectations to make the playoffs the first year would be SO MUCH higher, and there would be a product on the field this year that would put fannies in the seats, and extremely fun to watch, and I don't think I'm asking much of a GM to make those decisions on draft night the way the roster was constructed, tell your HC to **** off with his inbred to interchangeable Safeties to make my useless defensive scheme work!

I personally liked John Johnson out of BC.

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7 minutes ago, legler82 said:

I personally liked John Johnson out of BC.

He was available when the Jets pick came up in the 4th that they traded away for no reason so you could have had him also with the other 4 so Bowles has his 2 safeties he wanted.

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1 minute ago, Lupz27 said:

Eddie Jackson looks good, great find in the 4th round, same for Dede Westbrook, Jets could have went Mahomes, Cook, Jackson, Westbrook, with their first 4 picks, and came away with a Franchise QB, Game changing RB, decent Safety, AND punt returner, and a take the top off the defense threat to get 6 from a QB with the arm he can't out run, and the excitement around here even with not much expectations to make the playoffs the first year would be SO MUCH higher, and there would be a product on the field this year that would put fannies in the seats, and extremely fun to watch, and I don't think I'm asking much of a GM to make those decisions on draft night the way the roster was constructed, tell your HC to **** off with his inbred to interchangeable Safeties to make my useless defensive scheme work!

All I read around here is a bunch of fans crying because the Jets didn't pick the payer they liked .  The Jets took the consensus 2nd best player in the draft on most boards and a player some thought was the best . They surprised many by taking yet another safety at the top of the 2nd round, but reading this board lately folks are beginning to like the pick .  If by some luck Hackenberg turns into a QB, the same way this fan base now talks about the 2nd round pick they will start to feel about Hack after beating him into the ground all year . 

Jet fans hating Jet players and pinning for players we have to beat up . gotten to the point where you can't tell who's a friend or a foe .

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2 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

All I read around here is a bunch of fans crying because the Jets didn't pick the payer they liked .  The Jets took the consensus 2nd best player in the draft on most boards and a player some thought was the best . They surprised many by taking yet another safety at the top of the 2nd round, but reading this board lately folks are beginning to like the pick .  If by some luck Hackenberg turns into a QB, the same way this fan base now talks about the 2nd round pick they will start to feel about Hack after beating him into the ground all year . 

Jet fans hating Jet players and pinning for players we have to beat up . gotten to the point where you can't tell who's a friend or a foe .

No this is about the GM, and HC putting together possibly the worst roster in football the last 3 years, when 3 years ago the Jets had plenty of picks, and a boatload of money.  And now we will be in that exact same place again next season, those 2 shouldn't get a 2nd crack at building it up after the Cracker Jack job they did the last 3 years.

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34 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Well regardless of the whole QB vs safety thing if Adams does not end up being Ed Reed or at the very very least Landon Collins then the pick was an atrocious joke.

Disagree completely, if Adams just becomes a solid starter for 7-10 years. There are tons of 1st round picks that are complete busts, so to say that he has to be compared to a future HOF safety or a young promising star is foolish.

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