Roger Goodell is ruining the NFL

[Apache 51]

In Goodell's perfect world, every game ends with the score 52-49 and every player gets quoted thanking Tony Dungy for inventing football.

In Goodell's perfect world, a different team is capable of winning the SB every year. Crack someone without using your helmet, like they had been doing for years.

[RutgersJetFan]

I'm sort of confused on your angle here. I'm not trying to be insensitive to the injury or the example you are giving, but you realize you are essentially saying that the boy from Rutgers should receive a fine and a flag for the way he made that tackle, right?

Not at all. I'm saying the way that the entire game is played needs to be reevaluated considering how acceptable paralysis is and how common serious concussion problems are.

This is just strange coming from a boxer.

It actually isn't. The entire reason I want football to be changed completely is due to the fact that I am a boxer. I've actually had this discussion previously several times over the years, and most fighters see it the same way. There's really only so much you can do to make fighting safer. Limiting round maximums, protective gear, pre-fight inspections, headgear (at the amateur level)...etc. At the end of the day, it's still two guys roped in trying to knock each other out. That's the entire point of the sport. Outpoint or obliterate. It's a sport that really hasn't undergone many changes since they started requiring gloves in principle simply because there's only so much that can be done.

But football? Nope. Sorry, but extreme violence is not the point of the sport. It's a part of it, but not the point of it. Much like rugby and hockey. It's there, but it's not a necessity.

Most importantly, the entire reason boxing has simply fallen off the grid is due to the demise of the heavyweight division and American prospects (who predominantly ran the sport up until not too long ago), which in turn is a result of athletes of that size and caliber doing something else; simply because pursuing a career as a professional boxer is about as stupid a decision one can make aside from trying to be an actor. It's not a sport encouraged by parents and within most communities. It's violent, risky, and most certainly enhances your likelihood for a much earlier death than you may be intended for. Football? It's going the exact same route. As more and more info comes out on concussion syndromes, what parent in their right mind would actually push football on their kid? Why would you put your child at that type of risk? What some want to call the pussification of a sport, it's really just the realization of the notion that if the sport isn't changed, it's not going to be around for much longer than a generation or two. It doesn't take that long for a sport to fall off and the talent to disperse themselves elsewhere.

[THE ILK]

well, I've always felt since a concussion is the brain moving inside the skull, equipment can only do so much. when you are moving one direction, and suddenly and violently move the opposite direction, the brain moves inside the skull, and then you have a problem. I'm not saying don't get better helmets, I think the answer is simply enforcing existing rules, and when you get right down to it, the NFL helmet is probably the most iconic image in sports and least likely thing the NFL will want to change siginificantly

the ray lewis hit on keller and the revis hit in denver were examples of exciting big hits that were executed properly.

Of course they have continue to enforce the rules, and they would not have to change the exterior look of the helmet either.

It's the egg carton/honey comb like design and material used inside the helmet, as the padding that is what's making the difference.

It's designed to absorb multiple impacts better and it distributes the force of the blows throughout the helmet instead of directly on the head in one spot.

Which helps keep your brain from moving inside your skull. It's been thoroughly tested and out preforms any helmet on the market.

They test it by dropping an anvil on it, and measuring how much impact is felt inside the helmet.

Not only does it protect much better, but it's padding keeps it's shape and returns to it's form quicker upon impact.

So it's also much more effective protecting against multiple blows, quite frankly it would be sheer ignorance not to look into this.

[jgb]

safety should be a concern but the main problem i have with this is that players are getting fined for plays that weren't even penalized. so these kids finish a game without a penalty and a week later get hit with a fine in a play that was allowed in the game? let's at least have some consistency.

[JiFtheOracle]

Not at all. I'm saying the way that the entire game needs to be reevaluated considering how acceptable paralysis is and how common serious concussion problems are.

It actually isn't. The entire reason I want football to be changed completely is due to the fact that I am a boxer. I've actually had this discussion previously several times over the years, and most fighters see it the same way. There's really only so much you can do to make fighting safer. Limiting round maximums, protective gear, pre-fight inspections, headgear (at the amateur level)...etc. At the end of the day, it's still two guys roped in trying to knock each other out. That's the entire point of the sport. Outpoint or obliterate. It's a sport that really hasn't undergone many changes since they started requiring gloves in principle simply because there's only so much that can be done.

But football? Nope. Sorry, but extreme violence is not the point of the sport. It's a part of it, but not the point of it. Much like rugby and hockey. It's there, but it's not a necessity.

Most importantly, the entire reason boxing has simply fallen off the grid is due to the demise of the heavyweight division and American prospects (who predominantly ran the sport up until not too long ago), which in turn is a result of athletes of that size and caliber doing something else; simply because pursuing a career as a professional boxer is about as stupid a decision one can make aside from trying to be an actor. It's not a sport encouraged by parents and within most communities. It's violent, risky, and most certainly enhances your likelihood for a much earlier death than you may be intended for. Football? It's going the exact same route. As more and more info comes out on concussion syndromes, what parent in their right mind would actually push football on their kid? Why would you put your child at that type of risk? What some want to call the pussification of a sport, it's really just the realization of the notion that if the sport isn't changed, it's not going to be around for much longer than a generation or two. It doesn't take that long for a sport to fall off and the talent to disperse themselves elsewhere.

Interesting angle and you make enough points for me to at least respect your take. I disagree whole heartedly, but I see where you are coming from.

Kids are always going to play Football. That will never change. Especially considering the demographic that makes the league and the amount of players that make a team. Mix that with the money and fame or and education, and there is always going to be a draw to Football. Always. Boxing is a select few and for elite athletes you are playing small odds compared to any other sport in the world basically.

Football has always been violent. There were always examples of what you are seeing today. Now its just on every TV for everyone to see and everyone of them gets reported and played over and over again. The amount of players getting paralyzed hasnt gone up, its still rare. The concussions are going up but I think its probably because they werent appropriately identified years ago and the game is much faster than ever before. The players are stronger and bigger than ever before. If these guys go out there and just half a$$ it and play tentative, like the league is promoting, thats when real injuries are going to happen.

I dont think you need head hunters, guys going helmet to helmet. I agree 100% with that, but now with the launching and devastating, etc., its too much and to much is up for interpretation. Yeah, Jim Leonhard didnt get fined, but that sh*tty called made because of the leagues focus on player safety, could have cost the Jets the game. I still dont think Eric Smith should have received any punishments for his hit. This is too hard to police and then you start in with the hypocrisy of actually fining them. Man, its a$$ backwards. Seriously.

[Larz]

Of course they have continue to enforce the rules, and they would not have to change the exterior look of the helmet either.

It's the egg carton/honey comb like design and material used inside the helmet, as the padding that is what's making the difference.

It's designed to absorb multiple impacts better and it distributes the force of the blows throughout the helmet instead of directly on the head in one spot.

Which helps keep your brain from moving inside your skull. It's been thoroughly tested and out preforms any helmet on the market.

They test it by dropping an anvil on it, and measuring how much impact is felt inside the helmet.

Not only does it protect much better, but it's padding returns to and keeps it's form quicker, so it's also much more effective protecting against multiple blows.

Quite frankly it would be sheer ignorance not to look into this.

helmets are not the answer. look at the garrard concussion. the old "got my head slammed to the turf" deal. his skull changed direction suddenly, so the brain has only one thing to do, since it is primarily made of water, it sloshes around

helmets will never change that simple fact, the brain is made of mostly water, and it is inside the skull

the padding can slow down the change of direction somewhat, but will obviously never be able to eliminate it

lol at the anvil test. the only relevant test would be having sudden dramatic change in direction type tests where the helmet is moving at sprinter speed in one direction and suddenly is smashed by another helmet moving at sprinter speed in the opposite direction.

helmets can't change the simple physics of the skull moving in one direction, then suddenly moving in the opposite direction. sure they can save on the skull breaking or bruising, but the bag of water inside is going to change direction no matter what you do

simple physics

outperforming current helmets is great, but there is a much simpler way to solve the problem

see what you hit

this way the NFL gets what they are after. they get to keep the iconic looking helmets, and mom and sis can watch the game and support the sponsors and buy the womens style nfl shop.com clothing without praying for that guy on the stretcher

[RutgersJetFan]

Interesting angle and you make enough points for me to at least respect your take. I disagree whole heartedly, but I see where you are coming from.

Kids are always going to play Football. That will never change. Especially considering the demographic that makes the league and the amount of players that make a team. Mix that with the money and fame or and education, and there is always going to be a draw to Football. Always. Boxing is a select few and for elite athletes you are playing small odds compared to any other sport in the world basically.

Once upon a time, baseball, horse racing, and boxing were the three biggest sports in the world. Things do change if the circumstances are right. Decades ago had you told someone that boxing would be an afterthought in the eyes of the American public, they'd have given a similar response. "Too popular and too much money to be made." D-1 is the hitch, but as previously stated, talent can spread itself elsewhere. That type of impact can (and does) take its toll given enough time.

its too much and to much is up for interpretation.

This is too hard to police and then you start in with the hypocrisy of actually fining them. Man, its a$$ backwards. Seriously.

I cut these two parts out because I think the entire issue revolves specifically around this. From here on out, the issue is moving forward for the sport. If it's too hard to police accordingly and it's a 'do as we say/not as you're trained to do' issue, then the only solution is to change the sport if the rules can't accommodate for the way it's currently played. Realistically it's the only solution.

[THE ILK]

helmets are not the answer. look at the garrard concussion. the old "got my head slammed to the turf" deal. his skull changed direction suddenly, so the brain has only one thing to do, since it is primarily made of water, it sloshes around

helmets will never change that simple fact, the brain is made of mostly water, and it is inside the skull

the padding can slow down the change of direction somewhat, but will obviously never be able to eliminate it

lol at the anvil test. the only relevant test would be having sudden dramatic change in direction type tests where the helmet is moving at sprinter speed in one direction and suddenly is smashed by another helmet moving at sprinter speed in the opposite direction.

helmets can't change the simple physics of the skull moving in one direction, then suddenly moving in the opposite direction. sure they can save on the skull breaking or bruising, but the bag of water inside is going to change direction no matter what you do

simple physics

outperforming current helmets is great, but there is a much simpler way to solve the problem

see what you hit

this way the NFL gets what they are after. they get to keep the iconic looking helmets, and mom and sis can watch the game and support the sponsors and buy the womens style nfl shop.com clothing without praying for that guy on the stretcher

I'm all for them seeing what they hit, but added protection against the freak or intentional hit, does not hurt.

I also did not mean that's the only way they test it, I said it's throughly tested and it is by several outside agencies that ultimately certify it for market and use.

I'm sure they test it moving against other moving objects, since hockey players move, plus it's design is already cutting down concussions on the ice.

Where brains are also moving at sprinter speeds in one direction and suddenly smashed by another moving object at sprinter speeds in the opposite direction.

Except in hockey, sometimes it's another helmet, or a shoulder, or an elbow, or a fist, or a stick, sometimes it's even followed by a wall, or the ice, or both, and sometimes you just get hit with this big bullet they call a puck.

I never said it was eliminating it, and unless hockey players freeze the fluid inside their skulls during a game, it's obviously helping.

Don't be so short sighted, concussions are not even the only concern here.

The helmet's padding design helps it absorb impact and multiple impacts better, that may help with neck and spinal cord injuries as well.

As for the the iconic looking helmets, when was the last time you watched a game?

There are several different helmet designs out there already, face masks too, they even have ones that look like a space pilot's helmet with a brick fence guard.

The classic no vents, round ear hole, 2 bar has been long gone, and again nothing about the outside look of the helmet has to change anyway.

[JiFtheOracle]

Once upon a time, baseball, horse racing, and boxing were the three biggest sports in the world. Things do change if the circumstances are right. Decades ago had you told someone that boxing would be an afterthought in the eyes of the American public, they'd have given a similar response. "Too popular and too much money to be made." D-1 is the hitch, but as previously stated, talent can spread itself elsewhere. That type of impact can (and does) take its toll given enough time.

I cut these two parts out because I think the entire issue revolves specifically around this. From here on out, the issue is moving forward for the sport. If it's too hard to police accordingly and it's a 'do as we say/not as you're trained to do' issue, then the only solution is to change the sport if the rules can't accommodate for the way it's currently played. Realistically it's the only solution.

I dont know brother. Football is HUGE in a lot of places even just at the High School level. Kids grow up dreaming just to make the local HS's Varsity team. Those players that can will use that to play for an education and the pros will always be a very reasonable and viable solution.

How do you change the game? Flag Football?

[RutgersJetFan]

I dont know brother. Football is HUGE in a lot of places even just at the High School level. Kids grow up dreaming just to make the local HS's Varsity team. Those players that can will use that to play for an education and the pros will always be a very reasonable and viable solution.

How do you change the game? Flag Football?

No. I don't think contact has to be eliminated as a whole. The rugby corollary is always an interesting one because they wear no pads yet I think the spinal and concussion numbers are significantly lower. To tell you the truth I haven't done much besides postulate about the subject. I don't think it's something that one person can come up with on their own anyways.

[JiFtheOracle]

No. I don't think contact has to be eliminated as a whole. The rugby corollary is always an interesting one because they wear no pads yet I think the spinal and concussion numbers are significantly lower. To tell you the truth I haven't done much besides postulate about the subject. I don't think it's something that one person can come up with on their own anyways.

I'm free Tuesday mornings, where's your favorite coffee spot?

I brought that up in a different thread and but Rugby is so different. Its not really a game where you are constantly putting a body on someone. The blocking isnt the same, there is no point of attack, its not necessary to have 7 different one on one match ups where you are literally trying to physically dominate your opponent.

However, you can see they are conscious of where their head is and how they tackle with no pads...so its an interesting concept. But to tailor Football on the concepts of Rugby would drastically change Football. And I fear it would become a game like the Rugby, that I have no desire to watch.

[Jetsfan80]

To tell you the truth I haven't done much besides postulate about the subject. I don't think it's something that one person can come up with on their own anyways.

I'm free Tuesday mornings, where's your favorite coffee spot?

I honestly belive RJF and JiF can save football.

[slats]

Football? It's going the exact same route. As more and more info comes out on concussion syndromes, what parent in their right mind would actually push football on their kid? Why would you put your child at that type of risk? What some want to call the pussification of a sport, it's really just the realization of the notion that if the sport isn't changed, it's not going to be around for much longer than a generation or two. It doesn't take that long for a sport to fall off and the talent to disperse themselves elsewhere.

These are really good points. I'm not sure what the answers are, but I'm sure that the NFL has been losing talent to other sports for years. If a QB can also throw a baseball, or a Tight End can snatch a rebound, those guys would be wise to pursue their other sport, where the pay is greater and the careers are longer. I'm sure there are a lot of mothers, and more and more fathers, encouraging their athletically gifted kids to get into sports other than football.

I'm sure helmets can be improved, but helmet technology isn't going to stop the motion of the brain inside the skull that Lars is talking about.

As a fan, I hate to see the game softened, too.

Thing is, they can't try to clamp down on these injuries on one hand, and look to expand the season with the other. That's like going to thicker gloves in boxing, but throwing them around in 20 round bouts.

[T0mShane]

These are really good points. I'm not sure what the answers are, but I'm sure that the NFL has been losing talent to other sports for years. If a QB can also throw a baseball, or a Tight End can snatch a rebound, those guys would be wise to pursue their other sport, where the pay is greater and the careers are longer. I'm sure there are a lot of mothers, and more and more fathers, encouraging their athletically gifted kids to get into sports other than football.

I'm sure helmets can be improved, but helmet technology isn't going to stop the motion of the brain inside the skull that Lars is talking about.

As a fan, I hate to see the game softened, too.

Thing is, they can't try to clamp down on these injuries on one hand, and look to expand the season with the other. That's like going to thicker gloves in boxing, but throwing them around in 20 round bouts.

All great points.

It's a farce, IMO. Goodell is publicly railing against a perceived problem and promising to fix it without offering any coherent solutions, all the while pocketing the proceeds that this "problem" happens to generate. He'll make a fine senator some day. Here's how you can eliminate concussions in the NFL:

1. Eliminate the forward pass.

2. Get serious about enforcing steroids/HGH rules.

3. Tear up all those fancy artificial turf fields and install natural grass.

4. Allow only 10 defensive players on the field, eliminating the unaccounted-for defender.

Otherwise it still comes down to one 210+ lb. elite athlete running full-speed into another in opposite directions and bouncing them off a maintenance-free concrete slab.

[PatriotReign37]

Dr. Crushlove has spoken. Listen bitches.

This is going to be a touchy subject. Its not good. The NFL is not in a good place right now. They are looking like enormous hypocrites right now. Goodell is doing an awful job as a commissioner. Not a happy fan right now.

There have been some passionate back lash from the players. I'm watching ESPN right now and its crazy the bashing I'm hearing. Not good. Not good.

Before they got pulled, NFL.COM had framed pics of the Merriweather and Harrison hits for sale.

[PatsFanTX]

Throw in the obvious bias toward specific teams...and Goodell is the worst thing thats happened to the NFL.

Can you be a little more specific?

[JiFtheOracle]

Can you be a little more specific?

Sure, IMO he was way too lenient on the Pats when they got busted for their systematic cheating scandal. No suspension for BB in that situation? Just a fine that you know Kraft was going to cover. Ridiculous.

He went out of his way to do everything he could to reduce Big Ben's suspension.

There are a couple of other examples, that I'm missing right now, but those 2 just stand out immediately.

[THE ILK]

Can you be a little more specific?

Merriweather should have been suspended!

[tparich]

Sure, IMO he was way too lenient on the Pats when they got busted for their systematic cheating scandal. No suspension for BB in that situation? Just a fine that you know Kraft was going to cover. Ridiculous.

He went out of his way to do everything he could to reduce Big Ben's suspension.

There are a couple of other examples, that I'm missing right now, but those 2 just stand out immediately.

Strangly enough the first thing I thought of when they said that the NFL sent letters to all teams is that I hope they send an interpreter along with the letter to the Pats because you know BB can't do it on his own.

[PatsFanTX]

Merriweather should have been suspended!

I agree, those were two cheap shots.

[Matt39]

I wonder if Goodell ever considered that DeSean Jackson is 170 lbs?

[PatsFanTX]

1) Sure, IMO he was way too lenient on the Pats when they got busted for their systematic cheating scandal. No suspension for BB in that situation? Just a fine that you know Kraft was going to cover. Ridiculous.

2) He went out of his way to do everything he could to reduce Big Ben's suspension.

1) He docked the Pats a 1st round draft pick (the fine was meaningless). You think if Goodell suspended BB for 4 games it would have had more of an impact on losing a 1st round draft pick? I doubt it.

2) Big Ben was never found guilty of anything.

[flgreen]

1) He docked the Pats a 1st round draft pick (the fine was meaningless). You think if Goodell suspended BB for 4 games it would have had more of an impact on losing a 1st round draft pick? I doubt it.

2) Big Ben was never found guilty of anything.

Hate to admit it, but I agree with Tex on both points.

The really disturbing thing about the Tape incident is that the NFL destroyed the evidence immediately after reviewing them.

Clearly there was stuff there they didn’t want getting out that might compromise the integrity of the league.

If it was that bad, like changed the out come of a Super Bowl, stronger action then 4 games should have been taken

[THE ILK]

I agree, those were two cheap shots.

But he wasn't.

[Scott Dierking]

Hate to admit it, but I agree with Tex on both points.

The really disturbing thing about the Tape incident is that the NFL destroyed the evidence immediately after reviewing them.

Clearly there was stuff there they didn’t want getting out that might compromise the integrity of the league.

If it was that bad, like changed the out come of a Super Bowl, stronger action then 4 games should have been taken

The NFL does this stuff all the time. It is hard for me to believe that it causes this much furor.

heck, they changed the way games were timed a number of years ago (starting the clock on out of bound plays), which essentially reduced the number of plays in a game, and the fans barely murmured.

[Sperm Edwards]

The NFL does this stuff all the time. It is hard for me to believe that it causes this much furor.

heck, they changed the way games were timed a number of years ago (starting the clock on out of bound plays), which essentially reduced the number of plays in a game, and the fans barely murmured.

Clearly, clock management is unimportant until there's almost no time left.

[Scott Dierking]

If they instituted this emphasis (it is not even really a new rule) during the off-season, like they normally do, it would just be a little blip in the transactions column.

It is because this was during in-season, that there is so much ruckus.

There have been far greater game changers made to teh game of football and its rules, compared to this attention

[sh4dy15]

I don't understand what all the craziness is about. From what I understand, they didnt change the rules at all, all theyre saying is instead of a fine for helmet to helmet hits players will get suspended instead. All this talk I see in threads about "what if it's an accident?" dont make any sense because the plays are still going to be reviewed. Leonard for example would not have been suspended, since he didnt do anything anyway. But douchebags like Harrison and Meriweather whose obvious intent is to hurt someone will be suspended.

[Scott Dierking]

I don't understand what all the craziness is about. From what I understand, they didnt change the rules at all, all theyre saying is instead of a fine for helmet to helmet hits players will get suspended instead. All this talk I see in threads about "what if it's an accident?" dont make any sense because the plays are still going to be reviewed. Leonard for example would not have been suspended, since he didnt do anything anyway. But douchebags like Harrison and Meriweather whose obvious intent is to hurt someone will be suspended.

Exactly, but people want to run around and scream that the "game will be changed". It won't be.

What the NFL is trying to do is raise awareness, and come down where they feel there is obvious intent to hurt.

What they are also doing is setting themselves up for negotiations:

-Players health and aftercare is a huge issue

-An 18 game schedule is on the docket

[tparich]

I don't understand what all the craziness is about. From what I understand, they didnt change the rules at all, all theyre saying is instead of a fine for helmet to helmet hits players will get suspended instead. All this talk I see in threads about "what if it's an accident?" dont make any sense because the plays are still going to be reviewed. Leonard for example would not have been suspended, since he didnt do anything anyway. But douchebags like Harrison and Meriweather whose obvious intent is to hurt someone will be suspended.

Leonard must of done something because we lost 15 yards because of it. Clearly the Ref thought that he was being to rough in trying to seperate the ball from the player.

[Scott Dierking]

Leonard must of done something because we lost 15 yards because of it. Clearly the Ref thought that he was being to rough in trying to seperate the ball from the player.

Or he had a bad angle and thought he saw something that wasn't there

[tparich]

Or he had a bad angle and thought he saw something that wasn't there

Without seeing the video that the NFL sent out then than the Leonard hit as well as the big Revis hit are both against the rules in the way that it is worded. At the the rule that SMC posted in another thread.

[sh4dy15]

These plays will always be reviewed. If they don't see an INTENT to injure they wont be punished. Why is this such a big deal? Assholes like Harrison and Meriweather dont give a sh*t about a monetary penalty so now maybe they'll think twice before making an ILLEGAL hit.

[tparich]

These plays will always be reviewed. If they don't see an INTENT to injure they wont be punished. Why is this such a big deal? Assholes like Harrison and Meriweather dont give a sh*t about a monetary penalty so now maybe they'll think twice before making an ILLEGAL hit.

I honestly could care less about the fines players get but on the other hand we have a very agressive defense and a coach that like to tell them to get out there and hit people. It's if the Refs start to throw even more flags on us for hits that at the beginning of the season would of been fine. This is what worries me.

Again without seeing the video tape the NFL sent out it's hard to really say for sure what will happen until this Sunday. IMO there is a good change that we are going to see more flags on hard hits, not just head to head stuff.

[sh4dy15]

I honestly could care less about the fines players get but on the other hand we have a very agressive defense and a coach that like to tell them to get out there and hit people. It's if the Refs start to throw even more flags on us for hits that at the beginning of the season would of been fine. This is what worries me.

Again without seeing the video tape the NFL sent out it's hard to really say for sure what will happen until this Sunday. IMO there is a good change that we are going to see more flags on hard hits, not just head to head stuff.

Ok I understand what you are saying but when was the last time a jet player got a fine for an illegal hit? Eric Smith? Who cares. Our defense may be tough but they're not dirty like some other teams. This is going to impact teams with dirty players not good defenses.