Hope for Sanchez? Who knows, but...

[stoicsentry]

It's really Mark vs Sanchize.

I don't think Plax and Santonio are intimidating Mark that much. He's not a complete Okie doke dope like Eli was early in his career.

Maybe not but you got a WR (Holmes) quitting on you as a QB, so it's the same difference to me.

Burress I'm not so sure about. Nothing has come out but we know there was someone else on offense bitching and moaning all year and no one else is a good candidate.

[Lupz27]

Only disagreement I have is saying that he "looked like Rex Grossman".

He looked WORSE than Rex Grossman on his worst day.

Your guy has better mechanics than Eli, Thats a fact.... and Eli is now realistically a top 5 quarterback in the NFL. So the potential for Sanchez is virtually unlimited.

Don't run him out of town just yet, take it from a Giants fan who wanted to do the same thing to our QB 5 years ago and now wouldn't trade him for any other QB in the league.

The big difference is ATTITUDE, Eli never had a bad attitude, and never let the criticism get him down, Mark has showed bad body language, and thin skin, both need to change for him to become, and stay successful in NY.

[SenorGato]

I'm not saying that they're not lucky to have Manning, but why leave out Cruz on that list? If you don't believe he's a real talent after what he did this year then you must be sleeping.

I like Cruz enough, but a guy like him will always have people like me who want to see him do it again because I don't buy it the first time. It's cool...He's probably dealt with that his whole life and he's pretty well off for it. I can say easy things like I see nothing physically dominant about his game that makes me think it's him and not the QB...Sure, his work is in there and he thrived last year, but last year does not happen without an elite QB throwing him the ball.

[bitonti]

all we have right now is 3 seasons of ground and pound, and restricted play.

if memory serves the Jets tried to air it out at the start of this season. Sanchez couldn't handle it and they went back to G & P for the 2nd half of the season.

[SenorGato]

Maybe not but you got a WR (Holmes) quitting on you as a QB, so it's the same difference to me.

Burress I'm not so sure about. Nothing has come out but we know there was someone else on offense bitching and moaning all year and no one else is a good candidate.

I'm half joking, but Wayne Hunter? He goes from long time valued backup to hated starter in one season with Mark Sanchez at QB...I'm surprised the OL wouldn't just stop and watch as Mark improvised time by running way backwards from defenders while holding onto the ball for dear life just before fumbling it during the inevitable sack. There's nothing you can do to protect an idiot doing that...

[SenorGato]

if memory serves the Jets tried to air it out at the start of this season. Sanchez couldn't handle it and they went back to G & P for the 2nd half of the season.

Yeah they did try to air it out...They wanted to be more complex and varied in the passing game this year, you can see that by watching the early season stuff fasho. Sanchez just absolutely crashed into a wall at some point for reasons somewhat unknown (I say play design, planning, and calling).

[stoicsentry]

I'm half joking, but Wayne Hunter? He goes from long time valued backup to hated starter in one season with Mark Sanchez at QB...I'm surprised the OL wouldn't just stop and watch as Mark improvised time by running way backwards from defenders while holding onto the ball for dear life just before fumbling it during the inevitable sack. There's nothing you can do to protect an idiot doing that...

Well if Hunter was the one complaining then he deserves to get kicked the hell off the team. First of all, NOBODY should be doing that... not even Revis or Mangold. But Wayne &*$%&* Hunter? LOL wut? It's not Sanchez' fault he was so bad.

[stoicsentry]

Yeah they did try to air it out...They wanted to be more complex and varied in the passing game this year, you can see that by watching the early season stuff fasho. Sanchez just absolutely crashed into a wall at some point for reasons somewhat unknown (I say play design, planning, and calling).

Early in the season, I think they had to go away from it because of the O-line (Remember, injured Mangold/no Mangold, injured Moore and Hunter combined is a disaster on the right side, and Brick had a down season at LT). Later, the O-line got better so who knows what the explanation is. I still think the best bet to explain the unwillingness to launch it in the 2nd half of the year is Sanchez' alleged injury.

[Lupz27]

if memory serves the Jets tried to air it out at the start of this season. Sanchez couldn't handle it and they went back to G & P for the 2nd half of the season.

It was after week 3, yes just 3 weeks, how is that a body of work? And I stated this in the post you quoted this from.

IMO a QB needs to be allowed to fail if he is drafted that high, and starting from day 1, so he can learn from his struggles which will help him become a better QB with experience in the future. The jets never allowed Sanchez this.

[stoicsentry]

It was after week 3, yes just 3 weeks, how is that a body of work? And I stated this in the post you quoted this from.

IMO a QB needs to be allowed to fail if he is drafted that high, and starting from day 1, so he can learn from his struggles which will help him become a better QB with experience in the future. The jets never allowed Sanchez this.

Thing that gets me about this year is that he isn't slow. He's not a statue back there. Why we couldn't get him on the run and rolling out more often is a mystery to me.

[jbone]

Hard to allow your QB to do that when you don't trust him. They watch him in practice everyday and know what he can and cannot do far better than we do. He just isn't that type of QB and he never will be.

[Mikeg85]

I like Cruz enough, but a guy like him will always have people like me who want to see him do it again because I don't buy it the first time. It's cool...He's probably dealt with that his whole life and he's pretty well off for it. I can say easy things like I see nothing physically dominant about his game that makes me think it's him and not the QB...Sure, his work is in there and he thrived last year, but last year does not happen without an elite QB throwing him the ball.

Two things about Cruz:

- Cruz NEVER gets taken down by the first defender, and theres not a lot of WR's in the league you cant say that about. Let alone virtually anybody his size.

-On about 20 other teams he probably isn't a star.

Contradictory I know. But what it boils down to is the fact that the guy is a very, very, very good WR but at the same time he is fortunate to be on an offense where he fits in perfectly.

[Lupz27]

Thing that gets me about this year is that he isn't slow. He's not a statue back there. Why we couldn't get him on the run and rolling out more often is a mystery to me.

It's not a mystery to me, Schotty refused to make adjustments to his offense, he wanted a guy to take 3-5 step drops, stand in the pocket and deliver a pass to one of the 5 guys who all ran the same 5 yard curl on 3 and 7. All while having no RB, or TE stay in and help on pass protection, and a whole league who knew to line up 6 guys across that 5-7 yard line.

Schotty is stubborn and his offense is horrific.

Now that Schotty is gone we all need to blame someone who is still here. Some choose Sanchez, some Holmes, some Rex, some Tanny, and some a combination of all, or all of the above.

I am guilty of this to, but I choose to lay blame on our future OC, for something we haven't even seen yet, I just really hate the guy, and I don't think his skill set as a coach matches what the Jets need most on offense (which IMO is a coach with a good track record with young QB's, and a coach with an aggressive attacking mindset like Rex has on D). This can all be had, and still have a run first mentality. Sparano only fits the run first mentality, he has no proven QB work, and loves settling for FG's (Settling for FG's loses football games).

[KSJets]

if memory serves the Jets tried to air it out at the start of this season. Sanchez couldn't handle it and they went back to G & P for the 2nd half of the season.

Your memory is a little foggy because you seem to forget the person designing the plays and calling them was borderline retarded.

[ZachEY]

Another decent comparison would be Joey Harrington's 3rd year.

[FloridaJetsFan]

Your memory is a little foggy because you seem to forget the person designing the plays and calling them was borderline retarded.

"borderline retarded?" Me thinks thou art generous.

[jbone]

I am guilty of this to, but I choose to lay blame on our future OC, for something we haven't even seen yet, I just really hate the guy, and I don't think his skill set as a coach matches what the Jets need most on offense (which IMO is a coach with a good track record with young QB's, and a coach with an aggressive attacking mindset like Rex has on D). This can all be had, and still have a run first mentality. Sparano only fits the run first mentality, he has no proven QB work, and loves settling for FG's (Settling for FG's loses football games).

Seems like Sanchez can do no wrong. The reason he has sucked over 3 seasons is......Schotty....if he performs like crap next year, the reason will be.......Sparano. It is never Sanchez, I guess.

None of the better known/good OCs or QB coaches wanted to come to the Jets, becuase of Sanchez. It's not like we didn't try to get one, they just wanted to go else where as they thought there were better oppotunities. The top offensive coaches don't want to risk their reputations on an unsure bet, like Mark. Look how long Haley held out to get a better offer from Pitt after we offered him the "passing coord" role. He probably thought being the passing coord with Sanchez at QB is like bringing a knife to a gun fight. It just isn't going to work.

[JetsFanInDenver]

Rotfl...Those WRs are lucky to have Manning...except Nicks, who would rape and pillage with most QBs (except Sanchez, who'd mix overthrowing him with a whole lot of underthrowing him).

I'm optimistic about Sanchez and I've used the Manning thing in my head too, but Sanchez makes it so difficult to buy. I spent a whole lot of time at the end of last season just laughing at how comically bad he looked out there. It was like he flushed everything they told him to do right down the toilet...

No Cruz ?

I hate to let the facts get in the way of you hated for Sanchez.

But Ginats recievers were better than what we had. Holmes was giving up on plays too easy, was running the wrong routes a too few many time for a 10 mill receiver, and then fumbled the ball in a crucial game. He did not have the speed to get separation. And Plax was just slow not fast enough off the blocks. We all know what happened to Mason. And that leaves the rookie Jeremy kerley who did pretty good for the first season and the inconsistent Keller. Do we even want to count the 8 catches for 96 yards that got Patrick Turner the one year deal. Not to mention no one hasthe ability to stretch the field.

No one is saying Sanchez played great last season but our offense would have been a lot better if our WRs would atleast not given up on plays. And no one can deny that.

[JetsFanInDenver]

One more time, in clear English, please.

Mr. Rogers, how would you word that sentence ?

[JetsFanInDenver]

Question, how many INTs Eli had in the 2010 regular season ?

[SenorGato]

Well if Hunter was the one complaining then he deserves to get kicked the hell off the team. First of all, NOBODY should be doing that... not even Revis or Mangold. But Wayne &*$%&* Hunter? LOL wut? It's not Sanchez' fault he was so bad.

Oh but it most definitely played a part...The best QBs protect themselves and the ball...Sanchez is absolutely horrid at that, particularly as this season went on.

[SenorGato]

No Cruz ?

I hate to let the facts get in the way of you hated for Sanchez.

But Ginats recievers were better than what we had. Holmes was giving up on plays too easy, was running the wrong routes a too few many time for a 10 mill receiver, and then fumbled the ball in a crucial game. He did not have the speed to get separation. And Plax was just slow not fast enough off the blocks. We all know what happened to Mason. And that leaves the rookie Jeremy kerley who did pretty good for the first season and the inconsistent Keller. Do we even want to count the 8 catches for 96 yards that got Patrick Turner the one year deal. Not to mention no one hasthe ability to stretch the field.

No one is saying Sanchez played great last season but our offense would have been a lot better if our WRs would atleast not given up on plays. And no one can deny that.

The difference between our WRs and their WRs is NOT EVEN IN THE VICINITY OF the difference between our QB and their QB. Not even in the same planetary system...

Our offense would have been alot better if the QB didn't suck as much as he did, which is why the rift with the WRs developed in the first place.

[SenorGato]

Two things about Cruz:

- Cruz NEVER gets taken down by the first defender, and theres not a lot of WR's in the league you cant say that about. Let alone virtually anybody his size.

-On about 20 other teams he probably isn't a star.

Contradictory I know. But what it boils down to is the fact that the guy is a very, very, very good WR but at the same time he is fortunate to be on an offense where he fits in perfectly.

Agreed...more to the point he's lucky enough he has a QB as good as Manning is so that what talent he does have can shine. I would love for my QB to be able to maximize the abilities of his teammates....Instead I have to hear about stupid sh*t like route design here....I remember when Gilbride caught crap for his route designs...Man did that blow over quickly.

[villain_the_foe]

A big contributor to this problem (WR's not making plays down field) is the Jets coaching staff not allowing Sanchez to take these chances, they put the clamps on the offense after week 3, Sanchez was told to throw to his checkdown immediately if his first option wasn't open, they even drilled this in practice with a shot clock on Sanchez 1mississippi, 2, 3, checkdown. This is horrific to teach ANY QB, and offense.

Would the WR's make those plays for him of the offense was allowed to? Maybe, and if they didn't make these plays who's fault would it be the QB's, or WR's? Don't know the Jets never tried.

The Jets are in this perdiciment about is Sanchez the future or not because they never tried to find out. And any franchise with any QB would be in the same spot if they ran their offense this way.

As to the original OP referring to Eli, Eli had a brutal 14 games in 07, but the Giants changed OC's, and kept letting Eli throw it, never pulled the reigns in, he and the whole team got hot, and clicked to win the SB, the same this season. Eli still has bad games, and even bad seasons recently, as do most QB's, but he is allowed to continually try and make plays, and has a tendency to get hot, IE streaky, and comes up big in big spots. The Giants stayed the course with their highly drafted franchise QB, tried to find out if he was their guy, this is the right way, and luckily it worked for them.

My first comment is not ment to defend Sanchez, but to kill the Jets O philosophy, and coaching, they handled the QB situation as poor as possible, and any struggling young QB would fail in that atmosphere.

The 2nd point is to defend Sanchez, and kill the Jets coaching. Sanchez has showed the ability to make big plays at times when allowed, and come up big in big spots. And just like Eli did, and as early as this season to, Sanchez looks lost, and is horrific at times.

Will he turn into Eli if he is allowed to try and make plays instead of being reigned in? Probably not, but you will never know until you try it, and not just for 3 games, it should have started year 2, and if it did we would have 2 full seasons of Sanchez playing without restrictions, and have a better body of work to judge him on, all we have right now is 3 seasons of ground and pound, and restricted play. IMO this is why there is 2 completely different radical opinions on Sanchez, your either he sucks cut him, or no in the right system he can turn into Eli, or Brees.

The Jets just need to let him without restriction turn into Sanchez, for better, or worse so they can decide he is their guy, or decide to move on.

When you draft a QB this high you have to be prepared for this, the Jets weren't, and/or willing to do this, which to me says they should have never drafted ANY QB this high in the first place.

You hit it right on the head.

[kay_gee]

What Holmes & Burress were guilty of, though, was never going back to the ball. They'd run their routes and that was it. It was infuriating to watch. Sanchez, of course, had his own set of issues, but really? You didn't go back to the ball? Don't you WANT to make catches? I hated it.

[NYGiantFan10]

Question, how many INTs Eli had in the 2010 regular season ?

question, how many INTs were off of his recievers hands

[JetsFanInDenver]

The difference between our WRs and their WRs is NOT EVEN IN THE VICINITY OF the difference between our QB and their QB. Not even in the same planetary system...

Our offense would have been alot better if the QB didn't suck as much as he did, which is why the rift with the WRs developed in the first place.

Based on what ?

[villain_the_foe]

The difference between our WRs and their WRs is NOT EVEN IN THE VICINITY OF the difference between our QB and their QB. Not even in the same planetary system...

Our offense would have been alot better if the QB didn't suck as much as he did, which is why the rift with the WRs developed in the first place.

I dont believe this statement. Sanchez was in a bad system with bad coaching with WR's who arent as good as the Giant counterparts with one of the worse right side O-linemen with no depth in the league.

No need for me to emphasize sanchez terribleness this past year, but the Jets offense along with the offensive coaching staff as a whole was abysmal. I dont expect a 3rd year QB with absolutely no support/trust from the coaching staff or help from players on the field to change anything.

When you draft a QB you have to let him succeed or fail, period. Its bad enough that the playcalling/style/design was terrible but on top of that they chain the guy to checkdowns and slant plays to WR's that I NEVER ONCE seen get separation this past season. Someone alluded that the Jets tried to open up the offense this year but it was sanchez who had them tone it down. Not true. This offensive line which couldnt protect their QB with their starters were getting hurt and they couldnt run on throw the ball because of it. This is why the change occurred. They never went back to trusting Sanchez to either succeed, fail and learn.

I think the WR's are better on the Giants, but the Sanchez/Eli comment is based more on each teams coaching than anything else. Eli is a seasoned vet, Sanchez has not a clue, and though I dont entirely like the sparano deal I think than anyone breathing is better than Schotty.

[SenorGato]

Based on what ?

Lol. Reality. When the hell did Mario Manningham and Victor Cruz suddenly become key components in a super unit?

Jet fans reeeeeeaaaaaallly need a good QB. I think it'd clear up so many misconceptions this fanbase has about winning and what matters in this sport. Those guys stand out in the crowd because of who their QB is, plain and simple. Neither is anything worth talking about away from elite QB play...Meanwhile our #2 WR returns from 2 years of jail at 34 and throws up 650/8 with terrible QB play.

The idea that the difference in offense comes from the WR play is laughable, at it's absolute best.

[Lupz27]

Seems like Sanchez can do no wrong. The reason he has sucked over 3 seasons is......Schotty....if he performs like crap next year, the reason will be.......Sparano. It is never Sanchez, I guess.

None of the better known/good OCs or QB coaches wanted to come to the Jets, becuase of Sanchez. It's not like we didn't try to get one, they just wanted to go else where as they thought there were better oppotunities. The top offensive coaches don't want to risk their reputations on an unsure bet, like Mark. Look how long Haley held out to get a better offer from Pitt after we offered him the "passing coord" role. He probably thought being the passing coord with Sanchez at QB is like bringing a knife to a gun fight. It just isn't going to work.

I never said Sanchez can do no wrong, my point is the Jets are going to do more of the same with Sanchez, he has been reigned in for the better part of 3 years, he has never been given a chance to just go out and play, he had a sh*t offensive system, a sh*t coach, and sh*t teaching tactics.

I don't for see this changing under Sparano, IMO the plan will be to try and hide the QB, which will only hurt the small chance of Sanchez improving.

The saddest part about this is, on the slight chance there is a great QB inside of Sanchez waiting to learn, and be unleashed it probably will happen with another team.

Also who are all these so called QB coaches that don't want to come here because of Sanchez? There was one guy we know of that was considered, and that was Halley. First off we don't know why he didn't join our staff, if he didn't like Sanchez why would he even take the interview your just speculating. Here is some more speculation on the Halley front, he was a HC last season, and had no interest in taking 2 full steps back, and become a WR coach/passing coordinator, while some other guy called HIS coordinated plays, and get all the credit. Not to mention the fact he actually got an offensive coordinator position which is a step up from what the Jets offered him. See I can speculate to.

[Lupz27]

Lol. Reality. When the hell did Mario Manningham and Victor Cruz suddenly become key components in a super unit?

Jet fans reeeeeeaaaaaallly need a good QB. I think it'd clear up so many misconceptions this fanbase has about winning and what matters in this sport. Those guys stand out in the crowd because of who their QB is, plain and simple. Neither is anything worth talking about away from elite QB play...Meanwhile our #2 WR returns from 2 years of jail at 34 and throws up 650/8 with terrible QB play.

The idea that the difference in offense comes from the WR play is laughable, at it's absolute best.

Question for you Gato

If Sanchez played in a offensive system built around his strengths for the last 3 years, and had the same WR's that the Giants had this season, with the same experience with those WR's IE Manningham for 3 years, Nicks for 3, and Cruz for 2, your saying there is zero chance Sanchez would be a good QB? Take into account he never had the reigns pulled in, he was allowed to sling the ball all over the lot, and make mistakes with no change in play calling just like Eli had the last 3 years.

I'm just asking because this is what I would like to see the Jets do give Sanchez: Holmes, Keller, Kerley, and a deep threat at the #2 WR position either bring back Edwards, or a similar player from FA, or the draft, and give Sanchez 2-3 years with no restrictions, during this time Rex can build his defense through the draft, and keep adding pieces. This should have taken place at the end of year 1, and we would be going on year 3 this upcoming season, and Sanchez's future would be much clearer good, or bad.

[Larz]

there is hope

I feel sanchez' biggets problem is lack of maturity. the big question is;

will he mature before he gets run out of town ?

[ZachEY]

Question for you Gato

If Sanchez played in a offensive system built around his strengths for the last 3 years

Trick Question... Sanchez doesn't have strengths?

In all seriousness, he doesn't. He may still have some potential, and could possibly be good some day. But right now, he doesn't have strengths. He has a few things he's less bad at, but there's nothing he does better than the average NFL QB and a lot he does worse.

[BroadwayJ667]

CONTINUITY.

Or patience

[JetsFanInDenver]

Lol. Reality. When the hell did Mario Manningham and Victor Cruz suddenly become key components in a super unit?

The idea that the difference in offense comes from the WR play is laughable, at it's absolute best.

The moment you start doubting Victor Cruz's ability you start losing me.