Who can we poach from the Giants scout department?

[Integrity28]

Easy to let players develop while the ones in front of them are winning super bowls.

Just an awful comparison.

Ninja'd me, but yes.

[T0mShane]

The reason the Jets fans get impatient with young players is because we NEED them to replace the veteran players, because the veteran players we have usually suck

+1

Case in point: Stephen Hill

[ZachEY]

Ninja'd me, but yes.

What's even worse is, they're not even great players who developed. They've got a good QB and a good offensive line. There are the best guys in the league, the rare talents, and then there's a bunch of interchangeable parts at the skill positions.

Bilal Powell has the same big night on the Giants.

EDIT TO ADD: Woodhead is the perfect example. Jets weren't impatient with him. They didn't have the ability to utilize him the way the Pats do.

[slats]

If the Jets were to develope a player, the Jets fans would be screaming bust after the first 6 games of the rookie season

I look forward to see this theory tested the moment the Jets do develop a player.

[ZachEY]

+1

Case in point: Stephen Hill

Yup. Imagine if we had a QB, and Hill was our 4th option this year?

[bitonti]

Sanchez, today, isn't as good as RGIII and Andrew Luck are, today. He's past the point where you can give him the benefit of the doubt, IMO. He is what he is.

luck was a 1 pick, rg3 was a 2 pick and Sanchez was a 5 pick. Eli was a 1 pick.

maybe we should stop expecting him to be a 1 pick.

[ZachEY]

luck was a 1 pick, rg3 was a 2 pick and Sanchez was a 5 pick. Eli was a 1 pick.

maybe we should stop expecting him to be a 1 pick.

Pls quantify how much higher our expectations should be for a #2 pick than a #5.

This seems like nonsense. All top 5 (even top 10) picks are expected to be great players.

[Matt39]

First of all, Carolina is terrible.

[Matt39]

Sanchez, today, isn't as good as RGIII and Andrew Luck are, today. He's past the point where you can give him the benefit of the doubt, IMO. He is what he is.

RGIII running the belly option read offense is going to get old....really fast.

[Jetsfan80]

RGIII running the belly option read offense is going to get old....really fast.

Not really. Dude has a great arm that opponents have to respect. I don't really see that offense failing except against elite defenses.

[T0mShane]

Yup. Imagine if we had a QB, and Hill was our 4th option this year?

In fairness to Sanchez, this is his last chance to prove something--anything--and his receivers are a diminutive psychopath and a rookie who runs one route and doesn't catch particularly well. Before that, it was two psychopaths. Before that, it was a hung-over Braylon and a diminutive psychopath. What kind of development plan was this?

[stoicsentry]

Really?

If the Jets were to develope a player, the Jets fans would be screaming bust after the first 6 games of the rookie season

Actually, I was just arguing with someone here who implied Coples was a bust after TWO games.. LOL

Anyway it's funny to see a JETS fan start this thread... Eli took 4 years to develop into a decent QB and none of the fans here seem willing to give that time to Sanchez, so it's just a bunch of hypocrisy really.

[T0mShane]

RGIII running the belly option read offense is going to get old....really fast.

Dude was a big-time passer in college. It's not like he was running the wishbone.

[Matt39]

Dude was a big-time passer in college. It's not like he was running the wishbone.

The Big 12 is like playing against cones.

[T0mShane]

The Big 12 is like playing against cones.

Everyone but the SEC is cones.

[SenorGato]

Wait wait wait...T0m and OP are the same bot?

[bitonti]

Pls quantify how much higher our expectations should be for a #2 pick than a #5.

This seems like nonsense. All top 5 (even top 10) picks are expected to be great players.

the 2 pick of RG3 was basically a 1 pick in any other year.

There is a world of difference between 1 and 5. There's a difference between 2 and 3. in the same draft Donovan McNabb was 2 and Akili Smith went 3.

Vince Young was a 3 and he's broke now. Harrington was a 3. Rivers was a 4. Leftwich was a 7.

historically 5 is not "close enough" to 1 to just assume he's gonna be a franchise player. not all 1's are franchise players but it's a better list than the list of 5's.

[Matt39]

Everyone but the SEC is cones.

TE-BOW

[Matt39]

If were saying RGIII is better than Sanchez...Ive lost all hoppe for rationalization. They're running a college offense. Did anyone watch Cam tonight? He's better than RGIII and he sucks. At least he wont get hurt because hes big.

[Integrity28]

Yup. Imagine if we had a QB, and Hill was our 4th option this year?

Nobody would bring Hill up in the regular season until 2015.

[Integrity28]

Wait wait wait...T0m and OP are the same bot?

It is you and I that never agree, dummy. Mostly because you go out of your way to ensure NOBODY agrees with you. Tom and I both land on the same side on occasion. Any time you see me jabbing at him, it's mostly tongue-in-cheek because what he does is so transparent and shameless.

[Integrity28]

In fairness to Sanchez, this is his last chance to prove something--anything--and his receivers are a diminutive psychopath and a rookie who runs one route and doesn't catch particularly well. Before that, it was two psychopaths. Before that, it was a hung-over Braylon and a diminutive psychopath. What kind of development plan was this?

This.

Keller is the best thing we've ever put around Mark, and to be honest with the way TE's are blowing up all over the league... Keller isn't all that impressive either. He's rather par for the course.

[T0mShane]

it's mostly tongue-in-cheek because what he does is so transparent and shameless.

See board moving slow--->Make post positing why Jets don't win Super Bowls--->Foment ire--->Win--->Money--->Ho's--->Clothes

[T0mShane]

luck was a 1 pick, rg3 was a 2 pick and Sanchez was a 5 pick. Eli was a 1 pick.

maybe we should stop expecting him to be a 1 pick.

The consensus top three quarterbacks in the league right now were the 24th pick, the 199th pick and the 32nd pick.

[Bugg]

My point was Jets fans would not have the patience that Giants fans having players like Barden, and Brown develope....yes, we have zero to do with it outside voicing our displeasure

Giants can do that, and moreso the GM can do that due to their recent success and SB's

Tanny would be grilled if he kept a guy like Barden around, who barely even made his team this summer

But the GM and CS ultimately make those decisions. Because we post on a message board or go tho games does not mean very much when personnel decisions are made.Nobody on cut day is worrying about anyone in section 114 booing any player. We ride the roller coaster, but we don't design, build nor operate it.

[jetsjetsjetss]

can we stop comparing sanchez to eli? Yes they had similar stats but eli has a pedigree of awesome nfl quarterbacks that is why he could make a jump to the next level. He probably was working with his brother and reviewing tape while sanchez was at broadway plays. I just cant see sanchez taking that next step especially how fragile (mentally) and pouty he seems to be.

[Smashmouth]

In fairness to Sanchez, this is his last chance to prove something--anything--and his receivers are a diminutive psychopath and a rookie who runs one route and doesn't catch particularly well. Before that, it was two psychopaths. Before that, it was a hung-over Braylon and a diminutive psychopath. What kind of development plan was this?

Been sayng this for 4 years now along with the fact we have no one to catch the ball out of the backfield . For some strange reason our receivers were gettting open vs the Bills and Sanchez was hitting them all over the field. We play the Steelers no one can get open and we drop about 7 - 8 passes. Not sure how we can bame Sanchez for anything this year since hes been doing his job just fine and cut down on his main problem which was turnovers.

[ZachEY]

Actually, I was just arguing with someone here who implied Coples was a bust after TWO games.. LOL

Anyway it's funny to see a JETS fan start this thread... Eli took 4 years to develop into a decent QB and none of the fans here seem willing to give that time to Sanchez, so it's just a bunch of hypocrisy really.

Eli showed a lot more promise.

The Bills game was arguably the 1st game where Sanchez played well for 4 Quarters.

[ZachEY]

the 2 pick of RG3 was basically a 1 pick in any other year.

There is a world of difference between 1 and 5. There's a difference between 2 and 3. in the same draft Donovan McNabb was 2 and Akili Smith went 3.

Vince Young was a 3 and he's broke now. Harrington was a 3. Rivers was a 4. Leftwich was a 7.

historically 5 is not "close enough" to 1 to just assume he's gonna be a franchise player. not all 1's are franchise players but it's a better list than the list of 5's.

Is it a better list?

David Carr was a 1, Jamarcus Russell was a 1, even Sam Bradford who's decent, but not special was a 1. Same argument could possibly be made for Stafford who's good but not a star.

The list of franchise QB's in the league right now who were 1's is Eli. The list who were not is bigger.

[ZachEY]

Without the "all 22" footage, "no one can get open" is just biased guessing.

[Smashmouth]

Without the "all 22" footage, "no one can get open" is just biased guessing.

yup but this goes both ways.

When you see receivers open all over the field (buffalo) its obviously not a problem. When you see damn near every ball contested (steelers) somethings wrong. Add in the drops and pussys like Santonio refusing to fight for the tough catches and you have the NY Jets.

This team always seems to be lacking in one way or another on some tier of the offense. When we had a great running game 3 and 4 years ago we had WR issues, now that we have sgned some WR's Hill Schilens our RB situation is a joke. We lost our only threat out of the backfieldto cathc he football in LT (who was nothing special) an did not replace him. We have gone full circle at the 2 positions. This team needs a threat at RB who can both run and catch the football so we are not so predictable when bringing in specialty packages.Part of running a good offense is finding the mismatches and exploiting them, which once again we did vs Buffalo but when a tougher Steeler team gave us nothing we had no answer. Our talent on Offense is just not good enough to go up aganist the better defenses in the league.

[JFtoLong]

Are some people this clueless about football??

Did you see how much time Eli had, he could have made lunch for his lineman back there.

Did you see how wide open his receivers were most of the night, they actually fight off the line and get open.

Do you realize how much schemes also have to do with this, theres a reason coaches are so highly paid in the NFL.

Sanchez is in his 4th year, he came out early, and had decent, not great, talent around him years 1 and 2, he performed as well as could have been expected in those two years.

The schemes have flat out sucked. You had a HC who wants to ground and pound, and an OC prior to this year whose entire offense was based on tricking the opponents , and often confused his players more than the defense.

Last year the receivers flat out sucked, and the oline was as bad.

To try to compare Eli to Sanchez is absurd.

The Giants from day one had insisted on getting Eli weapons and a great Oline.

They also insisted on a vertical passing game, not a bunch of BS.

Early on Eli struggled with completion percentage, he was constantly ridiculed for it, even the year they won their first SB, the media and fans were questioning whether Eli was the right guy for the Giants.

Eli is now a veteran QB who has the benefit of excellent pass protection, a good scheme that he has been working with for years, and excellent receivers. Throw in a defense that gets pressure on the opposing team.

The Jets have absolutely wasted the Sanchez pick. I am not sold on Sanchez, but I don't think he was developed properly at all.

This franchise is completely clueless and out of sync.

You have a HC who wants to win as if it was 1985, with a dominating defense and a ground and pound offense.

You have an owner who wants to get attention more than win ("we are in the media business")

The result has been an ignored, poorly put together offense, without much talent at all. Prior to this year, the schemes have sucked, at least for the players they have had, and the jury is still out for the new schemes.

The biggest difference between the Giants and the Jets is that the Giants are about winning, the Jets have winning as secondary.

EVERYTHING the Giants do and have done has been a part of a plan.

The players they draft, the way they prepare and who they sign and let go, are all a part of a bigger plan.

The steelers have been much the same, and the Ravens.

The Jets are a mess, they are out of sync and do not have an organizational plan.

Rex is a good enough defensive coach, and they have enough defensive talent to not be a total disaster, but they will be in the 6-10 to 10-6 range needing a miracle run every year to have a chance.

The talent seems to be eroding, not getting better, so this could change.

But the collaboration in the Giants organization, with a plan of winning, and planning for the future is what makes the Giants what they are.

Maybe they have better scouts, maybe not.

[#27TheDominator]

The steelers have been much the same, and the Ravens.

The Jets are a mess, they are out of sync and do not have an organizational plan.

Rex is a good enough defensive coach, and they have enough defensive talent to not be a total disaster, but they will be in the 6-10 to 10-6 range needing a miracle run every year to have a chance.

The talent seems to be eroding, not getting better, so this could change.

But the collaboration in the Giants organization, with a plan of winning, and planning for the future is what makes the Giants what they are.

Maybe they have better scouts, maybe not.

What do the Giants, Steelers and Ravens have in common? Continuity. The organizations don't wet themselves when things don't go their way and they don't gut the front office after every 8-8 season. Did you guys notice that the Giants went 8-8 in 2009 and 9-7 last year? Heavens! Their organization must be so much more in tune with the world than ours!

If there is anything that I don't like about the way the team is run it is the constant splash moves - like Favre. I can appreciate trying to win, but I'd rather build for the long haul. According to Jason it looks like they will be setting up a new window shortly. We'll see what moves they make when they have contracts coming off the books.

[JonEJet]

+1

Case in point: Stephen Hill

Lets be honest...The Jets FO often goes for the HR, rather than taking the singles approach. They sort of have to. The Jets have all the pressure from its fan base to match what the Giants have done. So rather than waiting for the team to develope, they take the aggressive approach with trades (Edwards, and Cromartie) and making a big splash in moving up in the draft.

It almost worked in 2010....I'm sure it will work again soon. Maybe not this year, but this team, with Rex will be contending for years to come

[JFtoLong]

What do the Giants, Steelers and Ravens have in common? Continuity. The organizations don't wet themselves when things don't go their way and they don't gut the front office after every 8-8 season. Did you guys notice that the Giants went 8-8 in 2009 and 9-7 last year? Heavens! Their organization must be so much more in tune with the world than ours!

If there is anything that I don't like about the way the team is run it is the constant splash moves - like Favre. I can appreciate trying to win, but I'd rather build for the long haul. According to Jason it looks like they will be setting up a new window shortly. We'll see what moves they make when they have contracts coming off the books.

While I agree with you, they have more than continuity.

They have collaboration.

Everyone in the organization is in sync.

The HC, the coordinators, the GM, the owners, the scouts, everyone.

Continuity by itself is not going to make an organization into the Giants or the Steelers.

Personally, I think you need to have the leadership in the organization to make this collaboration happen.

IMO, Rex is NOT that guy. He can give 2 sh*ts about the offense, not acceptable for the HC.

If they had a GM or an owner who could do this, he could work as a HC.

Problem I see is neither the HC, the owner, nor the GM is capable of this type of leadership, hence what we see.

There is zero collaboration whatsoever.

I THINK Mangini was trying to establish that here, but he had too many of his own problems.

The steelers and Giants draft very well in accordance with their plans. There is no saying that the same players on other teams would perform as well. Some would, obviously JPP is a monster, but the success is more about the collaboration across the organization, with a solid short term and long term plan.

It's really not that much different than business really.