Who can we poach from the Giants scout department?

[JFtoLong]

Lets be honest...The Jets FO often goes for the HR, rather than taking the singles approach. They sort of have to. The Jets have all the pressure from its fan base to match what the Giants have done. So rather than waiting for the team to develope, they take the aggressive approach with trades (Edwards, and Cromartie) and making a big splash in moving up in the draft.

It almost worked in 2010....I'm sure it will work again soon. Maybe not this year, but this team, with Rex will be contending for years to come

I disagree with a few things here:

First off, before the Giants had success, they were facing the exact same pressure. They were taking tremendous heat for the Manning pick, and all they gave up to get him.

Coughlin was too old and the game had passed him by.

They believed in and stuck to their plan, and have been more than rewarded for it, although I think it would be naive to ignore the increcible good fortune they have had along the way.

I also don't think the Jets will ever win big with Rex running the show, unless they got a leader as a GM.

In this day and age, you need to be able to throw the ball.

When you have your HC saying, really, a WO in the second round??

He clearly does not see the value in passing the ball, which has been made evident time and time again.

You want to ground and pound, fine, I don't think it really works anymore, but fine, but for God sakes get an Oline and a back who can actually ground and pound.

[JonEJet]

I disagree with a few things here:

Once you have a solid, legitimate #1 QB in place, it makes the entire organization look like a well oiled machine.

I'm sure if Eli would have busted, the Giants you see today would look quite similar to our Jets

[T0mShane]

Once you have a solid, legitimate #1 QB in place, it makes the entire organization look like a well oiled machine.

I'm sure if Eli would have busted, the Giants you see today would look quite similar to our Jets

Many similarities between the Mark Sanchez and Dave Brown Eras.

[faba]

Eli has made the difference in the Giants- he has won with just about anyone they put on that offensive line and with his receivers.

[JFtoLong]

Once you have a solid, legitimate #1 QB in place, it makes the entire organization look like a well oiled machine.

I'm sure if Eli would have busted, the Giants you see today would look quite similar to our Jets

Fine, but, you usually cannot develop a solid legitimate #1 QB in place without doing it the right way.

Note a few things, when Eli was drafted, they immediately went out and put an incredible oline around him through the draft and FA.

They also went out and got him a big time WR in Plax in his prime, to go along with Tumor.

They then realized that Shockey was hurting Eli more than hleping him, the similarities to Holmes are disturbing. I remember Shockey throwing his arms up every time Eli missed him, which was often.

Eli became the leader of the team when Tiki and Shockey were gone.

The Jets brought in Holmes and Edwards, Sanchez clearly clicked with Edwards. What did we do, let Edwards go and sign Holmes to a long term deal.

They also let go of Cotchery, Brad Smith and let the oline deteriorate.

The biggest difference I see is the Giants were willing to let Eli develop the right way, through the growing pains he had, and made sure they put the right pieces around him.

Sanchez is now in his 4th year, second system, nowhere near the talent around him.

See the difference?

[JFtoLong]

Eli has made the difference in the Giants- he has won with just about anyone they put on that offensive line and with his receivers.

AFTER he was established.

Early on this was not the case.

[#27TheDominator]

Many similarities between the Mark Sanchez and Dave Brown Eras.

Sure, they are nearly identical. I mean Sanchez has had so many losing seasons and Reeves and Ryan are so similar as coaches.

[Smashmouth]

AFTER he was established.

Early on this was not the case.

exactly.

Nice posts I enjoyed reading them and i think your right on the money.

[bitonti]

The list of franchise QB's in the league right now who were 1's is Eli. The list who were not is bigger.

not really. Luck, Cam Newton, Bradford, Stafford, Carson Palmer, Vick, Peyton etc. It's a good list of good players. There are Carr and Jamarcus but by and large #1 is a good place to get a QB. It's how things are done.

#5 is a crapshoot. In fact going back 30 years the only other QBs taken at #5 was Kerry collins and Jim McMahon. that's the level Sanchez should be compared to.. not the #1's.

[SMC]

......... they have a great offensive line and a great quarterback everything else follows

Yes, they have the great QB, but the Oline is mediocre at best. They benefit from the fact that Eli is the NFL's best underpressure QB.

[JFtoLong]

Many similarities between the Mark Sanchez and Dave Brown Eras.

Yup, the ineptitude of the Giants during the Brown era, and the Jets during the Sanchez era, to build a team the RIGHT way.

Eli showed a lot more promise.

The Bills game was arguably the 1st game where Sanchez played well for 4 Quarters.

TOTAL BS!

I remember like it was yesterday the end of the regular season in year 4 of Eli.

The Giants pulled the Bills game out of their asses by a heroic effort by the RB, I believe it was Bradshaw.

Eli was HORRIBLE that game, atrocious, as he had been for much of that season.

I remember very clearly the Monday after the game, I was listening to WFAN the entire day because I was traveling. EVERYBODY, fans, media, retired players was bashing Eli like nobodys business.

It looked like the Giants might miss the playoffs again, and people were screaming, if his name was not Manning he would be a 3rd or 4th round draft pick, screw Acorsi for sticking him wiht us, we should have drafted Ben, we should have kept Rivers, it was brutal.

Manning played well, along with the defense in the SB run, you have to give him that, but you are dead wrong if you think he showed great promise early on.

If anything, I think in year 1 and 2, Sanchez showed much more promise than Eli did in his year 1 or 2, and, Sanchez was nowhere near as NFL ready as Eli was.

It's amazing how people want to change history to suit their arguments.

[SMC]

In fairness to Sanchez, this is his last chance to prove something--anything--and his receivers are a diminutive psychopath and a rookie who runs one route and doesn't catch particularly well. Before that, it was two psychopaths. Before that, it was a hung-over Braylon and a diminutive psychopath. What kind of development plan was this?

LOL. That's a perfect description of the receiving corps the last 4 years. But you forgot a 1-dimensional undersized TE who falls down alot.

[JustInFudge]

In fairness to Sanchez, this is his last chance to prove something--anything--and his receivers are a diminutive psychopath and a rookie who runs one route and doesn't catch particularly well. Before that, it was two psychopaths. Before that, it was a hung-over Braylon and a diminutive psychopath. What kind of development plan was this?

One that's never resulted in a losing season, 4 playoff road wins and the most single season TD's in the history of the franchise?

[T0mShane]

Sure, they are nearly identical. I mean Sanchez has had so many losing seasons and Reeves and Ryan are so similar as coaches.

I was being facetious.

[RutgersJetFan]

If I knew this whole time that I actually had an impact on the moves that Tannenbaum makes, I would have really handled this whole Internet fame thing differently the past few years. Less movie quotes and memes perhaps.

[JonEJet]

See the difference?

Unfortunately, yes I do

But you have to remember the Jets traded draft picks and players to move up to #5 for Sanchez....then to help him, traded more picks to get Edwards and Holmes

I think the JEts realized the window to win without a defensive rebuild was probably 2010.

2011 seemed to be a hatchet job clean up....and now it seems we are re-tooling a bit on both offense and defense

The reason for lack of depth obviously was trading draft picks for the "win now" formula the Jets had in place

[JonEJet]

It's amazing how people want to change history to suit their arguments.

BTW....you're an excellent addition to this board

[JFtoLong]

Unfortunately, yes I do

But you have to remember the Jets traded draft picks and players to move up to #5 for Sanchez....then to help him, traded more picks to get Edwards and Holmes

I think the JEts realized the window to win without a defensive rebuild was probably 2010.

2011 seemed to be a hatchet job clean up....and now it seems we are re-tooling a bit on both offense and defense

The reason for lack of depth obviously was trading draft picks for the "win now" formula the Jets had in place

I agree, the formula was win now.

Also remember the Giants traded much more to land Eli than we did for Sanchez, but they were not in as much of a win now mode, beuase they understood it takes time to develop a QB.

That said, I don't understand trading up for a rookie QB who is considered raw by most peoples standards.

This is what I mean by the lack of a plan.

There is a lack of coherence with the Jets for a while now.

I understood the Favre move, I hated it, but understood it.

I actually liked the idea of trading up for Sanchez, I just don't get the idea of trying to win now, sacrificing the future with a raw rookie QB.

At some point an organization needs to pick it's spot.

The problem I see now is, I think Sanchez is going to be gone after this year, I would be SHOCKED if at some point this season Tebow is not starting.

So, what does this mean.

Well, Sanchez is gone, we stick with Tebow for a year or 2, realize he is not going to win big as Elway did quickly, and move on.

So, either we get lucky and a QB falls in our lap, or, we draft and start over again.

I am not in love with Sanchez, I just would have liked to have seen him developed the right way, and would rather have brought in more for him to work with this year to better evaluate him.

[JFtoLong]

BTW....you're an excellent addition to this board

Thanks, much appreciated.

I like this board a lot. I was on a different one which I did not like so much.

[Bugg]

As to the elusive ideal of continuity, Terry Bradway has been making the picks on draft day or telling Tannenbaum whom he should pick or trade for since the day Al Groh and Bill Parcells decamped from Hofstra. And Jerry Reese started making those decisions for the Jints only after a front office coup deposed Ernie Accorsi. That's well after Bradway took over.

[slats]

The problem I see now is, I think Sanchez is going to be gone after this year, I would be SHOCKED if at some point this season Tebow is not starting.

So, what does this mean.

Well, Sanchez is gone, we stick with Tebow for a year or 2, realize he is not going to win big as Elway did quickly, and move on.

So, either we get lucky and a QB falls in our lap, or, we draft and start over again.

Don't see it happening like this at all.

I strongly agree that the Jets have mishandled the development of Sanchez. They did just about everything wrong with a kid with talent who started just 16 games in college and left school as a junior. Never should've been thrown into the starting lineup, and if they couldn't resist that, they should've focused on giving him weapons he could grow with and a strong backup to keep him on his toes.

My feeling is that they seem to have figured out their mistakes a little bit. That's why you have the team drafting WRs the last couple years, including the first one higher than the fourth round since Santana Moss. The Tebow acquisition puts mental pressure on Sanchez, but I don't think the Jets see him as a legitimate heir apparent. If you're thinking about dumping your starter for your newly acquired backup, you don't have that backup working as the personal punt protector. Tebow's a gimmick guy.

Plus, Sanchez signed a pretty fat contract extension that pretty much guarantees that he'll be on the roster next season.

I think the Jets give him all of this year to see what he can do with Hill and Kerley with Schottenheimer out of town. If he doesn't make a major jump, they start looking at QBs in the 2013 draft. A young guy who can sit behind Sanchez for the year -or some part of it- before taking over. Either that, or in 2014 they make a more desperate move at QB. The big trade up or trade for a veteran.

But with all the picks, players, and money that they threw around for Sanchez, they're going to give him one last real chance to hopefully prove them right before they give up on him.

[JFtoLong]

Don't see it happening like this at all.

I strongly agree that the Jets have mishandled the development of Sanchez. They did just about everything wrong with a kid with talent who started just 16 games in college and left school as a junior. Never should've been thrown into the starting lineup, and if they couldn't resist that, they should've focused on giving him weapons he could grow with and a strong backup to keep him on his toes.

My feeling is that they seem to have figured out their mistakes a little bit. That's why you have the team drafting WRs the last couple years, including the first one higher than the fourth round since Santana Moss. The Tebow acquisition puts mental pressure on Sanchez, but I don't think the Jets see him as a legitimate heir apparent. If you're thinking about dumping your starter for your newly acquired backup, you don't have that backup working as the personal punt protector. Tebow's a gimmick guy.

Plus, Sanchez signed a pretty fat contract extension that pretty much guarantees that he'll be on the roster next season.

I think the Jets give him all of this year to see what he can do with Hill and Kerley with Schottenheimer out of town. If he doesn't make a major jump, they start looking at QBs in the 2013 draft. A young guy who can sit behind Sanchez for the year -or some part of it- before taking over. Either that, or in 2014 they make a more desperate move at QB. The big trade up or trade for a veteran.

But with all the picks, players, and money that they threw around for Sanchez, they're going to give him one last real chance to hopefully prove them right before they give up on him.

I hope you are right.

The problem I see is that the media and fan pressure for Tebow is going to be insane.

Rex thinks his defense is better than it is, if sanche has 2 bad games in a row, I think Rex will put Tebow in.

Once that happens, I just don't see Sanchez being the Jets QB anymore.

Will see what happens.

[Blackout]

Seriously, these ****ing guys seem to never run out of RBs, WRs or pass rushers.

Every year it seems the Giants lose a key WR, and every year they add someone to their stable that has a higher ceiling that the guys that leave.

Also, anyone saying Eli isn't elite is ridiculous... because as much as I laud these young WRs of theirs, I'm quite positive that Eli is a major contributor to the perception that they are awesome.

post of the week

[ZachEY]

not really. Luck, Cam Newton, Bradford, Stafford, Carson Palmer, Vick, Peyton etc. It's a good list of good players. There are Carr and Jamarcus but by and large #1 is a good place to get a QB. It's how things are done.

#5 is a crapshoot. In fact going back 30 years the only other QBs taken at #5 was Kerry collins and Jim McMahon. that's the level Sanchez should be compared to.. not the #1's.

Unless you think the Jets traded up with hopes of getting a Kerry Collins type player, your approach is severely flawed.

[ZachEY]

Yup, the ineptitude of the Giants during the Brown era, and the Jets during the Sanchez era, to build a team the RIGHT way.

TOTAL BS!

I remember like it was yesterday the end of the regular season in year 4 of Eli.

The Giants pulled the Bills game out of their asses by a heroic effort by the RB, I believe it was Bradshaw.

Eli was HORRIBLE that game, atrocious, as he had been for much of that season.

I remember very clearly the Monday after the game, I was listening to WFAN the entire day because I was traveling. EVERYBODY, fans, media, retired players was bashing Eli like nobodys business.

It looked like the Giants might miss the playoffs again, and people were screaming, if his name was not Manning he would be a 3rd or 4th round draft pick, screw Acorsi for sticking him wiht us, we should have drafted Ben, we should have kept Rivers, it was brutal.

Manning played well, along with the defense in the SB run, you have to give him that, but you are dead wrong if you think he showed great promise early on.

If anything, I think in year 1 and 2, Sanchez showed much more promise than Eli did in his year 1 or 2, and, Sanchez was nowhere near as NFL ready as Eli was.

It's amazing how people want to change history to suit their arguments.

Kind of like you changed my post to suit your argument. Never said Eli was great at this point of his career, I said Eli was better than Sanchez. Last game was probably the first "complete game" by Sanchez. But please, point out another bad game Eli had.

***im not responding to anything longer than a paragraph, so be concise.

[bitonti]

Unless you think the Jets traded up with hopes of getting a Kerry Collins type player, your approach is severely flawed.

hope in one hand piss in the other

is just cause we want to believe a 5 pick will perform like a 1 pick, doesn't make it so. comparing Eli to Sanchez is hugely flawed and not just because Eli has an MVP brother and a Pro Bowl father.

by the way all the mistakes the Jets scouts may or may not have made... these are the same guys who found Revis and Mangold.

[ZachEY]

hope in one hand piss in the other

is just cause we want to believe a 5 pick will perform like a 1 pick, doesn't make it so. comparing Eli to Sanchez is hugely flawed and not just because Eli has an MVP brother and a Pro Bowl father.

by the way all the mistakes the Jets scouts may or may not have made... these are the same guys who found Revis and Mangold.

Following your train of logic then, it is probably not a smart move to draft a QB anywhere but #1.

I'm not going cuckoo for them drafting the consensus best center in the draft in a year they needed a center and having it pay off, nor drafting the consensus best corner in the draft in a year they needed a corner and having it pay off.

[JFtoLong]

Kind of like you changed my post to suit your argument. Never said Eli was great at this point of his career, I said Eli was better than Sanchez. Last game was probably the first "complete game" by Sanchez. But please, point out another bad game Eli had.

***im not responding to anything longer than a paragraph, so be concise.

Are you serious?

Eli's first 4 years were loaded with terrible games.

It's amazing how Eli was all of the sudden a top 5 QB right out of college.

For crying out loud, even last year, with a SB MVP in his pocket, most people were spitting out their beer when he said he was an elite QB.

Now all of the sudden he was Unitis year 1 and beyond.

[ZachEY]

Are you serious?

Eli's first 4 years were loaded with terrible games.

It's amazing how Eli was all of the sudden a top 5 QB right out of college.

For crying out loud, even last year, with a SB MVP in his pocket, most people were spitting out their beer when he said he was an elite QB.

Now all of the sudden he was Unitis year 1 and beyond.

I literally did not make one of the points you're attempting to contradict.

[JFtoLong]

I literally did not make one of the points you're attempting to contradict.

Ok, my bad then.

[bitonti]

Following your train of logic then, it is probably not a smart move to draft a QB anywhere but #1.

I'm not going cuckoo for them drafting the consensus best center in the draft in a year they needed a center and having it pay off, nor drafting the consensus best corner in the draft in a year they needed a corner and having it pay off.

no, it probably isn't a smart move. For every Aaron Rodgers there are a dozen Jason Campbell's.

and don't forget they traded up for Revis. That was a ballsy draft move and it was probably the best draft pick this team has made since 1969

[JFtoLong]

no, it probably isn't a smart move. For every Aaron Rodgers there are a dozen Jason Campbell's.

and don't forget they traded up for Revis. That was a ballsy draft move and it was probably the best draft pick this team has made since 1969

Keep in mind that in the Rogers Smith draft, for a while Rogers was considered the number one pick by most, then all of the sudden Smith became the flavor of the draft.

If I'm not mistaken, Mangini pushed hard for Revis and the trade up.

He was a DB coach with NE

[Blackout]

no, it probably isn't a smart move. For every Aaron Rodgers there are a dozen Jason Campbell's.

and don't forget they traded up for Revis. That was a ballsy draft move and it was probably the best draft pick this team has made since 1969

except when we drafted Cotchery, the best 4th round draftpick ever

[Smashmouth]

Yup, the ineptitude of the Giants during the Brown era, and the Jets during the Sanchez era, to build a team the RIGHT way.

TOTAL BS!

I remember like it was yesterday the end of the regular season in year 4 of Eli.

The Giants pulled the Bills game out of their asses by a heroic effort by the RB, I believe it was Bradshaw.

Eli was HORRIBLE that game, atrocious, as he had been for much of that season.

I remember very clearly the Monday after the game, I was listening to WFAN the entire day because I was traveling. EVERYBODY, fans, media, retired players was bashing Eli like nobodys business.

It looked like the Giants might miss the playoffs again, and people were screaming, if his name was not Manning he would be a 3rd or 4th round draft pick, screw Acorsi for sticking him wiht us, we should have drafted Ben, we should have kept Rivers, it was brutal.

Manning played well, along with the defense in the SB run, you have to give him that, but you are dead wrong if you think he showed great promise early on.

If anything, I think in year 1 and 2, Sanchez showed much more promise than Eli did in his year 1 or 2, and, Sanchez was nowhere near as NFL ready as Eli was.

It's amazing how people want to change history to suit their arguments.

on the money

[Blackout]

I literally did not make one of the points you're attempting to contradict.

LOL