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Yahoo: Bucs offer 1st, 3rd, 6th for Revis; to pay him $15m-$16m


T0mShane
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If it was so risky?? Injury or not, what teams are in the position to give up value picks as well as structure a contract within the books suitable to pay Revis close to what he wants? This post overall just screams anti-Revis.

 

I actually have no idea what your point is.  I was stating the many reasons for Revis' low trade value, not diminishing his abilities on the field or what he has accomplished.  I happen to personally like Revis and want to keep him, provided the contract is amenable to doing so, but everything I mentioned is factual; he has held out before, he is asking for a large contract and he most certainly is coming off a devastating injury.  Not sure how any of that is anti-revis, when i'd be saying the same thing for anyone in his place (sans franchise quarterback).

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Ross Tucker was on Florio's show and said that several coaches told him, if they were gonna start an NFL defense he'd be the guy you pick. That guy is a former player and presumably knows NFL coaches. 

 

you keep asking why his trade value is Percy Harvin level (or more)?

 

the answer is the tape. Go back and take a look at his career and his play on the field.

 

So many threads are about his hold outs or his salary cap. He's a baller. He's the 2nd best Jet, ever and if they trade him, it's gonna be a huge task to replace him.

 

The ACL is the only thing that hurts his value why they don't have more suitors or what-have-you. 

 

I trust that Idzik hit on Richard Sherman but and  he's probably got some more 5th round sleepers all ready to go. THat's the only fact that makes this less than a total disaster. Overall i'll be bummed when it happens cause Revis is talented and picks are just picks.  

 

Do they ask those GMs if they account for Revis eating up nearly 10% of their salary cap? No, they do not.  It's an exercise in asking GMs to name your all-star team and eliminate older players.  No matter how good someone is, his value is finite.  As the best CB, Revis isn't worth stud QB money the same way the best FB isn't worth stud CB money.  The factor you are and have been refusing to admit is that Revis has priced himself out of many suitors.  

 

Let's see a poll of those same GMs who think Revis is worth $15M/year with tens of millions in guarantees and up-front bonus, and saying that would be the first thing they do when assembling a defense.  

 

And again, if Revis is so under-valued right now then those same GMs would be ringing Idzik's phone off the hook trying to be the team that gets in on that great deal.  No one is making any real offer except Tampa Bay.  Seems to me if someone offered a later pick than Tampa's #13 and threw in a pick in the 2nd-3rd round next year they'd have a realistic shot at getting him.  So why is no one making that offer?  Because to date - since Revis is still a Jet - no one thinks he is worth the picks it takes to get him plus the money it takes to keep him (and additional money along the way it takes to keep him happy). 

 

And I brought up Percy Harvin not to question why Revis has more trade value, but to question why, so far, Revis does not have the trade value of Percy Harvin.  So far, it is lower.  Minnesota got a first round pick for him right away and with very little effort.  Idzik is playing a game of chicken to get the only interested suitor to give up a first round pick.  If the Jets get Tampa's #13 pick and a little more (and while it's not a slam dunk I think it'll happen), it speaks more to Idzik being a tough negotiator with one desperate team rather than an inherent value Revis carries.

 

The ACL is a minor issue, relatively speaking.  Everyone thinks he'll come back no problem.  But if they don't, then why should the Jets be the one to risk ending up with nothing?

 

Your fantasy of trading him mid-season is just that: a total fantasy that won't happen.  Maybe my memory's hazy, but I can't think of a time when a star player with an expiring contract was traded in late October or early November for a first round pick and more in the upcoming draft.  There is no time, during the season, for that team to get into a negotiated extension with Revis while he's practicing with the Jets.  A team doesn't dangle a star player while he's starting & practicing in between games.  It just isn't done.  If you think that such negotiation needs to be ironed-out ahead of time for a trade to happen now, that goes 10-fold when the season is half over since Revis would then be 8 weeks away from being a full UFA instead of 8 months.

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Also, to preempt the inevitable: Jason Cole is not a sensationalist tool. He doesn't "make things up." He's one of the more credible reporters out there. Save your "eeeeeeeevil meeeeeeedia" warbling for Manish and Cimini.

 

 

Cool.  I just hope that if this is true, all the media tools who did post lies will be brought before the public for a knuckle rapping (or much much worse).  I am tired of anonymous sources and unsupported inferences.  (0 $ of this stuff is not worth reading

Edited by jack48
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Its funny how these Revise rumors work. Harvin is.more valuable because he was traded quickly "with little effort?" Hasn't that guy been in trade.rumors.for basically the past two offseasons because hes such a prick? Isn't this a thread saying 1, 3, and 6 are on the table (better than the Harvin deal)? Aren't the Jets STILL.holding out for more? Hasn't that first been on the table for weeks now according to sources?

Clearly the Jets think different about that opinion there too....Thank Jah.

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If many here would have traded him for a 2nd it's only if that was the top offer we could get, yes that would be better than the alternative, since Woody isn't re-signing him.  It beats keeping him for 1 more year and then get the #97 overall pick in 2015?

 

 

So why is it smart for the Jets to re-sign him for whatever he asks but not so smart for others?

 

He is worth what he is worth.  Other teams could also pick him up for this bargain price, hold on to him while his trade value goes up, and then flip him for a nice (trade) profit or extend him themselves.  But we have, at best, one taker.  

 

Why?  Why is it smart for the Jets to hold him while his trade value soars but no other team thinks it's so smart for them to do it?

 

 

Both of you need to accept that his trade value is not as high as you think.  Not for the kind of money he wants. 

 

 

I don't think the Jets are considering the 15 million into his trade value. I also don't think Revis wants to play for 6 million this season and I think the Jets know this. Heck, he doesn't even want to show up to minicamp for 3 million. This is where the Jets gain an advantage in contract and trade negotiations with Revis. Dragging this out is a complete win for the Jets. Either the Bucs are going to give in and throw a ton at us or Revis is going to cave and take a more reasonable deal to avoid playing for 6 million this year. If Revis goes out there and has a poor year or even re-injures himself - he will be lucky to get 6 million a year on the open market, let alone 10 million or 15 million. 

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Do they ask those GMs if they account for Revis eating up nearly 10% of their salary cap? No, they do not. 

 

Your fantasy of trading him mid-season is just that: a total fantasy that won't happen.  Maybe my memory's hazy, but I can't think of a time when a star player with an expiring contract was traded in late October or early November for a first round pick and more in the upcoming draft.  

 

Tucker talked to coaches not GMs. You are obsessed with the salary cap but the problem isn't the cap. For the Jets the problem is the QB sucks so bad they aren't competitive.  My point was this player has real believers on the football side, It seems like all you care about is the cap. there's a reason why he demands that money, it's because he's rare and elite. 

 

by the way you talk about memories of trades? A player with Revis' resume and age has NEVER been traded before. No 3x All-Pro, 4x Pro Bowl at 27 has ever been traded. Darrelle Revis' resume makes Hershal Walker look like a scrub. The whole thing is uncharted waters. 

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by the way you talk about memories of trades? A player with Revis' resume and age has NEVER been traded before. No 3x All-Pro, 4x Pro Bowl at 27 has ever been traded. Darrelle Revis' resume makes Hershal Walker look like a scrub. The whole thing is uncharted waters. 

 

 
EXPENSIVE uncharted waters tho. Idzik is just trying to save Woody his hard earned money and make sure Revis isn't taking Aaron Rodgers' equivalent's cap dollars. It's 'bout dat future yo. It's coming so hard. 
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Tucker talked to coaches not GMs. You are obsessed with the salary cap but the problem isn't the cap. For the Jets the problem is the QB sucks so bad they aren't competitive.  My point was this player has real believers on the football side, It seems like all you care about is the cap. there's a reason why he demands that money, it's because he's rare and elite. 

 

by the way you talk about memories of trades? A player with Revis' resume and age has NEVER been traded before. No 3x All-Pro, 4x Pro Bowl at 27 has ever been traded. Darrelle Revis' resume makes Hershal Walker look like a scrub. The whole thing is uncharted waters. 

 

If he's so valuable and such an obvious re-sign for the Jets, why aren't other teams falling over each other to take advantage of this purported stupidity on the Jets' part? 

 

The problem IS the cap.  That precisely IS the problem.  More so than his ACL injury, which few people think will be a problem.  If Revis had normal CB demands we would be keeping him.  If we weren't going to keep him, we'd be getting much better offers than a 50/50 shot at the #13 pick in a weak first round.  No one wants to pay him $15M plus surrender these multiple first rounders you think he's worth.  And if the Jets were to turn down such a fictitious offer, it would be the Jets surrendering two 1st rounders for the privilege of paying Revis like a stud QB.

 

Great players have been traded.  Sure it's uncommon, and it requires special circumstances (as there exist now with Revis).  Herschel was considered a great player at the time of the trade, which - along with Minnesota's stupidity - is why he garnered so much in trade.  Also there was no free agency back then; acquiring that player's exclusive rights forever played a part that no longer exists.  Also more recently Randy Moss and Marshall Faulk. 

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If he's so valuable and such an obvious re-sign for the Jets, why aren't other teams falling over each other to take advantage of this purported stupidity on the Jets' part? 

 

 

 
Um, giving up a major haul of picks + a big contract is much harder to do than simply resigning him.
 
It's a totally obvious situation to resign him, but the Jets are smart enough to see if they can get a huge haul. Revis is not a normal CB so normal CB demands would be borderline retarded for him to make, particularly so early in the process of negotiations.
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Do they ask those GMs if they account for Revis eating up nearly 10% of their salary cap? No, they do not.  It's an exercise in asking GMs to name your all-star team and eliminate older players.  No matter how good someone is, his value is finite.  As the best CB, Revis isn't worth stud QB money the same way the best FB isn't worth stud CB money.  The factor you are and have been refusing to admit is that Revis has priced himself out of many suitors.  

 

Let's see a poll of those same GMs who think Revis is worth $15M/year with tens of millions in guarantees and up-front bonus, and saying that would be the first thing they do when assembling a defense.  

 

And again, if Revis is so under-valued right now then those same GMs would be ringing Idzik's phone off the hook trying to be the team that gets in on that great deal.  No one is making any real offer except Tampa Bay.  Seems to me if someone offered a later pick than Tampa's #13 and threw in a pick in the 2nd-3rd round next year they'd have a realistic shot at getting him.  So why is no one making that offer?  Because to date - since Revis is still a Jet - no one thinks he is worth the picks it takes to get him plus the money it takes to keep him (and additional money along the way it takes to keep him happy). 

 

And I brought up Percy Harvin not to question why Revis has more trade value, but to question why, so far, Revis does not have the trade value of Percy Harvin.  So far, it is lower.  Minnesota got a first round pick for him right away and with very little effort.  Idzik is playing a game of chicken to get the only interested suitor to give up a first round pick.  If the Jets get Tampa's #13 pick and a little more (and while it's not a slam dunk I think it'll happen), it speaks more to Idzik being a tough negotiator with one desperate team rather than an inherent value Revis carries.

 

The ACL is a minor issue, relatively speaking.  Everyone thinks he'll come back no problem.  But if they don't, then why should the Jets be the one to risk ending up with nothing?

 

Your fantasy of trading him mid-season is just that: a total fantasy that won't happen.  Maybe my memory's hazy, but I can't think of a time when a star player with an expiring contract was traded in late October or early November for a first round pick and more in the upcoming draft.  There is no time, during the season, for that team to get into a negotiated extension with Revis while he's practicing with the Jets.  A team doesn't dangle a star player while he's starting & practicing in between games.  It just isn't done.  If you think that such negotiation needs to be ironed-out ahead of time for a trade to happen now, that goes 10-fold when the season is half over since Revis would then be 8 weeks away from being a full UFA instead of 8 months.

 

I really love it when someone else takes the time to write-up these long, drawn-out posts.  Very well said and agree with every word of it.  The in-season trade thing is a complete fabrication made-up by bitonti and the entire concept is pretty laughable considering the it is based on how the Jets shouldn't possibly trade him for draft picks next year, because he's worth so much more, so the solution to that would be to instead wait and hope that they get an offer during the season that would be, at best, of what?  Next year's draft picks of course.

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Um, giving up a major haul of picks + a big contract is much harder to do than simply resigning him.
 
It's a totally obvious situation to resign him, but the Jets are smart enough to see if they can get a huge haul. Revis is not a normal CB so normal CB demands would be borderline retarded for him to make, particularly so early in the process of negotiations.

 

No freaking kidding.  Your partner is convinced that if he wasn't coming off an ACL injury that he'd be commanding at least a couple of first round picks.

 

And any trade the Jets turn down is de facto the Jets giving up picks + a big contract.

He is not obvious to re-sign.  Not at those dollars.

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Tucker talked to coaches not GMs. You are obsessed with the salary cap but the problem isn't the cap. For the Jets the problem is the QB sucks so bad they aren't competitive.  My point was this player has real believers on the football side, It seems like all you care about is the cap. there's a reason why he demands that money, it's because he's rare and elite. 

 

by the way you talk about memories of trades? A player with Revis' resume and age has NEVER been traded before. No 3x All-Pro, 4x Pro Bowl at 27 has ever been traded. Darrelle Revis' resume makes Hershal Walker look like a scrub. The whole thing is uncharted waters. 

 

The cap isn't the problem?  In what freakin' world?  If the problem isn't the cap, the Jets would never even be considering the possibility of trading him to begin with.  This isn't even up for debate.  Now granted, I certainly understand you feel Revis is worth the money he is asking for (whatever that may be), and that's your opinion which is fine, but it's pretty crystal clear that the Jets do not agree with that and the reasons behind that all comes down to the salary cap.

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No freaking kidding.  Your partner is convinced that if he wasn't coming off an ACL injury that he'd be commanding at least a couple of first round picks.

 

 

 

I don't necessarily disagree with that. If we can entertain every two bit journalist's ideas on how to value Revis because he can call invisible people a source then I'm willing to entertain a price that high for a player who is prime aged, truly elite, and a real weapon against the passing game. 

 

And any trade the Jets turn down is de facto the Jets giving up picks + a big contract.

 

 

 
Sure, luckily the offers suck enough that I don't really care about losing out on them. The only deal that matters is one that is great for the Jets, who would be giving up the prime aged future HOFer in this whole thing. 
 

 

He is not obvious to re-sign.  Not at those dollars.

 

I prefer my numbers not to come third hand or lower personally. It makes them feel more real, as if they actually exist. "Those dollars" are only a faint possibility to me, and a possibility I think I can live with. If that actually stops the Jets from paying Aaron Rodgers' equivalent then ****, but I have some very serious doubts that will ever even be an issue. 

Edited by SenorGato
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I don't think the Jets are considering the 15 million into his trade value. I also don't think Revis wants to play for 6 million this season and I think the Jets know this. Heck, he doesn't even want to show up to minicamp for 3 million. This is where the Jets gain an advantage in contract and trade negotiations with Revis. Dragging this out is a complete win for the Jets. Either the Bucs are going to give in and throw a ton at us or Revis is going to cave and take a more reasonable deal to avoid playing for 6 million this year. If Revis goes out there and has a poor year or even re-injures himself - he will be lucky to get 6 million a year on the open market, let alone 10 million or 15 million. 

 

Dragging it out is a complete win for the Jets if they win, nothing more.  If they get Revis re-signed closer to the $10M range than the $15M range, it's a win.  If they get a better offer later than they got earlier, it's a win.  If Tampa drafts a CB high and take themselves out of the Revis negotiations, or if Revis is willing to risk the 2013 season for his unrestricted freedom to sign anywhere, then it's a complete loss.

 

They do have that advantage in a renegotiation with Revis, as you mentioned, since no one thinks he is eager to play out the season for only another $6M. But if he decides he can take it easier the first half of the season, then turn it on the 2nd half and stay healthy, he may think he's better off that way.  It's a risk, and Revis comes across as someone who would want a sure thing (certainly in light of last season).

 

Depends on him.  But someone is leaking this "the Bucs are willing to pay Revis $15M/year" stuff and the only unlikely party to be leaking that is the Jets.

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True but, if you want to get out from under, there has to be short term pain.

 

 

the Jets are already out from under. they have something ridiculous like 13 mil of cap room right now. After all the cuts and restructures the team is in fine health. Once Mark leaves after next year they will have tons of cap room. 

 

I've yet to see an explanation what the Jets will do with all this cap room. I've seen people say 1 Revis is not worth 3 or 4 starters the only problem is the Jets are paying these FA peanuts. Who are they gonna spend this money on? It's not a rhetorical question. If Revis doesn't deserve it, who does? Imaginary franchise QB ? 

Edited by bitonti
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Translation:  Revis has pocketed plenty.

 

 

 
 
Part of why trying to paint his next contract as both high, as high as you say anyway, salary AND high in guarantees is nonsense. No one that can be ID'd on either side (Revis or the Jets) has hinted at what his real demands are. We've heard rumors of the high, which is to be expected since no one starts "fair" or low as that would be dumb. 
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That comes off the cap anyway (in addition to whatever new money Revis gets).  And it's $12M not $13M.

 

Translation:  Revis has pocketed plenty.

 

Not to mention, he counts $9 million this year if on the roster and another $9 million in dead money next year if not re-signed or an extra $3 million / year over the next 3 years on top of his new contract if re-signed.  That's opposed to a $12 million hit if traded this year.  So in the end, they still save $6 million off the cap by trading him now, before even considering the massive cap hit that would come with giving him a new contract.

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I don't care about 2014 Jets i care about the 2013 Jets. Ya know the team we are all gonna watch this fall. 

It is admirable that you are looking at this as a fan.

 

But, in order to actually look at this from a full spectrum, one has to look at it from a GM vantage point also. That does not only take into account 2013.

 

Sorry fans. 

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Dragging it out is a complete win for the Jets if they win, nothing more.  If they get Revis re-signed closer to the $10M range than the $15M range, it's a win.  If they get a better offer later than they got earlier, it's a win.  If Tampa drafts a CB high and take themselves out of the Revis negotiations, or if Revis is willing to risk the 2013 season for his unrestricted freedom to sign anywhere, then it's a complete loss.

 

They do have that advantage in a renegotiation with Revis, as you mentioned, since no one thinks he is eager to play out the season for only another $6M. But if he decides he can take it easier the first half of the season, then turn it on the 2nd half and stay healthy, he may think he's better off that way.  It's a risk, and Revis comes across as someone who would want a sure thing (certainly in light of last season).

 

Depends on him.  But someone is leaking this "the Bucs are willing to pay Revis $15M/year" stuff and the only unlikely party to be leaking that is the Jets.

 

I agree, except it's not a COMPLETE loss if Revis plays the year out and leaves. If Revis does this - the Jets get a comp pick (most likely 3rd), they get to wait another year to draft/sign a replacement and they free up cap space that was spent on him in the past and would have been spent on him in the future. If you want to call that amount 10 million, then that is fair. That amount still buys you a lot of players especially with the new CBA. I think this is Revis and Co leaking this info all the way. He is desperate, no way he wants to have a so-so year while risking injury to play for 6 million. Also, to be honest - I'm a little scared of giving Revis even the 10 million. I don't want to split hairs here as I will not be mad if the Jets resign him for that amount - but he just seems to only get his blood flowing when he is playing for something personally. Maybe I'm wrong - but jmho.

Edited by RSJ
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It is admirable that you are looking at this as a fan.

 

But, in order to actually look at this from a full spectrum, one has to look at it from a GM vantage point also. That does not only take into account 2013.

 

Sorry fans. 

 

there's no such thing as rebuilding in the NFL. only reloading. all a losing season guarantees is a culture of losing. 

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It is admirable that you are looking at this as a fan.

 

But, in order to actually look at this from a full spectrum, one has to look at it from a GM vantage point also. That does not only take into account 2013.

 

Sorry fans. 

 

This would require looking at cap space in context rather than just raw cap space. Also at least a realistic view on the team's QB situation during the life of Revis' next contract rather than this cartoonish "look what 10 year star veteran QBs and young (5th year) Super Bowl winning QBs get!" 

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the Jets are already out from under. they have something ridiculous like 13 mil of cap room right now. After all the cuts and restructures the team is in fine health. Once Mark leaves after next year they will have tons of cap room. 

 

I've yet to see an explanation what the Jets will do with all this cap room. I've seen people say 1 Revis is not worth 3 or 4 starters the only problem is the Jets are paying these FA peanuts. Who are they gonna spend this money on? It's not a rhetorical question. If Revis doesn't deserve it, who does? Imaginary franchise QB ? 

 

Is it even really that much?  Don't get me wrong, I know they cleared out a bunch of cap space, but I thought the number was under that at this point.  I could be wrong, but either way, it still wouldn't be accounting for the Landry signing.  Plus, if the Jets have a real intention to trade Revis, they are likely counting $3 million of that space as already gone and then another chunk has to be set aside for the rookie class (both picks and UDFAs).  The point being that, in the end, that would leave no particularly significant number left for filling out the roster after the draft and throughout camp.

 

As far as future years, the Jets are obviously looking at significantly improved cap space and one can only guess what their intentions are to do with it, but it would seem that they have no intentions of using it to meet Revis' contract demands (whatever they may be).

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This would require looking at cap space in context rather than just raw cap space. Also at least a realistic view on the team's QB situation during the life of Revis' next contract rather than this cartoonish "look what 10 year star veteran QBs and young (5th year) Super Bowl winning QBs get!" 

OK, then I am still on board getting at least a #1 and ancillary picks in exchange for Revis, rather than burying my teamin cap at one position. If we can sign him to a 5 year 10-11m average deal with an appropriate signing bonus, I am on board for that too.

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OK, then I am still on board getting at least a #1 and ancillary picks in exchange for Revis, rather than burying my teamin cap at one position. If we can sign him to a 5 year 10-11m average deal with an appropriate signing bonus, I am on board for that too.

 

Nobody gets buried by the cap nowadays. When was the last time you heard "cap hell" in the NFL before it's reemergence this offseason? It was yet another buzzword offered to us by the NFL's media. It did nothing, the Jets were out of "cap hell" within a couple weeks.

 

Not to mention it's completely and utterly ridiculous to think one splurge on a *legitimately* great player's prime is suddenly burying yourself in commitments in the first place. I get that some of you are deluded and think this will stop the team from landing the pass rusher and QB it needs, but it really does not. You can then pay those two all the cap space when that time actually comes rather than theoretically comes. 

Edited by SenorGato
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Nobody gets buried by the cap nowadays. When was the last time you heard "cap hell" in the NFL before it's reemergence this offseason? It was yet another buzzword offered to us by the NFL's media. It did nothing, the Jets were out of "cap hell" within a couple weeks.

 

Not to mention it's completely and utterly ridiculous to think one splurge on a *legitimately* great player's prime is suddenly burying yourself in commitments in the first place. I get that some of you are deluded and think this will stop the team from landing the pass rusher and QB it needs, but it really does not. You can then pay those two all the cap space when that time actually comes rather than theoretically comes. 

You are very good at talking yourself into anything. Ask the Pittsburgh Steelers about "cap hell" and how good they feel about it this off-season, for a supposedly fictionalized strife.

 

Hey, it's only money right? It doesn't really need to be managed, does it? 

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