Matt39 Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 I suppose it's too much to ask for you to stick to concepts you actually understand. Ah yes. The professional student at his best. Was waiting for this. Football players are just like slaves and their choice was between Home Depot and millions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Ah yes. The professional student at his best. Was waiting for this. Football players are just like slaves and their choice was between Home Depot and millions. Huh... I thought you were done... Things aren't "straw men" when they are the actual argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 Huh... I thought you were done... Things aren't "straw men" when they are the actual argument. Creating the scenario where a 20 year old kids choices were either the street, a potential gig at Home Depot or millions and the NFL to illustrate why these players are similar to slaves is absurd .And that's not even the point here...I'm sure Deadspin would love to hear about it though. These kids do have a choice not to play. Not playjng football doesn't = Home Depot. I mean creating the Home Dept scenario to attack my position regarding choice is a strawman...unless I'm totally bungling the term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stugotz81 Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 An on field death is probably the only thing that could change that. The NFL currently propagates the myth of safety. There's no such thing in this sport. Reality is, no one actually cares. No one. So, it'll probably take something catastrophic to change that. But, even that would probably be seen as a one time thing. Truth is, these people are sent to be destroyed for our entertainment. No different than the roman gladiators, except they are paid well, as opposed to slaves. The NFL's myth is that the sport is anything but that. There has been a death in Nascar and that did nothing to change the sport....maybe increased safety protocol but it surely didnt bring out the end of Nascar. I wish it did but not even close. Just bigger helmets for them as they continuously go about crashing into other cars and walls going 200mph..my point being, death on the field or not, NFL ain't going anywhere....maybe you would need like death a week for some real change to ever happen to the sport...which isn't going to happen so it isn't going to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Creating the scenario where a 20 year old kids choices were either the street, a potential gig at Home Depot or millions and the NFL to illustrate why these players are similar to slaves is absurd .And that's not even the point here...I'm sure Deadspin would love to hear about it though. These kids do have a choice not to play. Not playjng football doesn't = Home Depot. I mean creating the Home Dept scenario to attack my position regarding choice is a strawman...unless I'm totally bungling the term. Interestingly, in my first post, I said the difference was that they were not slaves. So, it would seem the strawman is what you created. I happened to indulge it, because in socio-economic ways, the metaphor is scarily fitting. But, in truth, the comparison was really about sport for the sake of violence. But, I think our difference is probably cultural. See, where I grew up (America), there aren't a lot of opportunities for success for poorly educated, under privileged, ethnic minorities. At least not nearly as many as we pretend there to be. So, while the choice may not be solely home depot or the NFL, High Schools in Irvington and similar areas across the country aren't exactly feeders for JP Morgan and similar companies. The projects are a black hole, whether we want to acknowledge that from our position of privilege or not. So, unless I'm wrong about this (I'm not), or it's different where you come from, and opportunities abound for pulling people out of the hood, the choice, is largely illusory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 There has been a death in Nascar and that did nothing to change the sport....maybe increased safety protocol but it surely didnt bring out the end of Nascar. I wish it did but not even close. Just bigger helmets for them as they continuously go about crashing into other cars and walls going 200mph..my point being, death on the field or not, NFL ain't going anywhere....maybe you would need like death a week for some real change to ever happen to the sport...which isn't going to happen so it isn't going to change. You're probably right. As bitonti points out, change will likely come at the lower levels, where decisions are made with no money at stake, by concerned parents, rather than by corporations who couldn't care less about the individuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kay_gee Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Rugby is a continuous action game. There is a tackle in football every 60 seconds. yes, and have patience with my thickness, but so what? ETA: nevermiiind it just clicked. still not sure it's a bad idea though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 When will they be airing that documentary about how the coal industry has been giving its workers cancer for over 300 years? Shut up, I just started my Coal Miner's Fantasy league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013   Interestingly, in my first post, I said the difference was that they were not slaves.  So, it would seem the strawman is what you created.  I happened to indulge it, because in socio-economic ways, the metaphor is scarily fitting.  But, in truth, the comparison was really about sport for the sake of violence.I misinterpreted your first post then- Im not up to speed on metaphors yet I guess. The violence angle, I get.   But, I think our difference is probably cultural.  See, where I grew up (America), there aren't a lot of opportunities for success for poorly educated, under privileged, ethnic minorities.  At least not nearly as many as we pretend there to be.  So, while the choice may not be solely home depot or the NFL, High Schools in Irvington and similar areas across the country aren't exactly feeders for JP Morgan and similar companies.  The projects are a black hole, whether we want to acknowledge that from our position of privilege or not.  So, unless I'm wrong about this (I'm not), or it's different where you come from, and opportunities abound for pulling people out of the hood, the choice, is largely illusory.Believe it or not, I grew up in America too. And yes, the opportunities for those growing up in Yonkers and areas with terrible schools is beyond limited. I'd love to engage in a Dept of Ed, UFT, school choice conversation...but this isnt the forum. I do agree with where you're coming from, save the snark in parentheses, however your example was exaggerated imo. The Rivals 5 star athlete out of high school in the hood can have options other than football, depending on his willingness to engage in other avenues. That I guess is where we'd probably disagree the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 I'm not really seeing the point of this thread, save for another chance to take a swipe at Gawker Media. ESPN is a mendacious sleaze factory that functions primarily as the national PR arm of three of the four major sports and it deserves to be raked over the coals at every available opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013  I misinterpreted your first post then- Im not up to speed on metaphors yet I guess. The violence angle, I get.   Believe it or not, I grew up in America too. And yes, the opportunities for those growing up in Yonkers and areas with terrible schools is beyond limited. I'd love to engage in a Dept of Ed, UFT, school choice conversation...but this isnt the forum. I do agree with where you're coming from, save the snark in parentheses, however your example was exaggerated imo. The Rivals 5 star athlete out of high school in the hood can have options other than football, depending on his willingness to engage in other avenues. That I guess is where we'd probably disagree the most. Fair enough. Friends again? You're right. There is ALWAYS a choice. However, I think it's often an illusory one, because you're asking that Rivals 5 star athlete to delay gratification for long term reward in safety and likely a financial future that does not offer the same promise out of the hood. For a 17 year old, with all that is ahead of him, there really is no choice, is what I'm saying. You can't transplant your brain and life experience into theirs and hope for the best. They are working with the deck they've got, and that nearly inevitably leads to option A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Take the face masks off helmets, and players will be far more reluctant to use their heads as missiles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Interestingly, in my first post, I said the difference was that they were not slaves. So, it would seem the strawman is what you created. I happened to indulge it, because in socio-economic ways, the metaphor is scarily fitting. But, in truth, the comparison was really about sport for the sake of violence. But, I think our difference is probably cultural. See, where I grew up (America), there aren't a lot of opportunities for success for poorly educated, under privileged, ethnic minorities. At least not nearly as many as we pretend there to be. So, while the choice may not be solely home depot or the NFL, High Schools in Irvington and similar areas across the country aren't exactly feeders for JP Morgan and similar companies. The projects are a black hole, whether we want to acknowledge that from our position of privilege or not. So, unless I'm wrong about this (I'm not), or it's different where you come from, and opportunities abound for pulling people out of the hood, the choice, is largely illusory. The one thing your wrong about is the fact that these UBER ATHLETIC TALENTED poor under privileged kids can't choose a different sport to play like baseball, the best thing that could ever happen to MLB is for the NFL to get shut down, they would then get the African American people back playing the sport, the decline of them playing baseball is huge since the 80's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 The one thing your wrong about is the fact that these UBER ATHLETIC TALENTED poor under privileged kids can't choose a different sport to play like baseball, the best thing that could ever happen to MLB is for the NFL to get shut down, they would then get the African American people back playing the sport, the decline of them playing baseball is huge since the 80's. It's a fair point. I wonder what the extrinsic push towards football is though. Availability of equipment, fields, etc? It's simply not that more young black kids intrinsically like football over the last 30 years. From a logical perspective, I've never understood it. All things being equal, Right Field seems like one of the best jobs going. You can play longer, the money is still better, the toll on your body is significantly less. If I had to guess, it has something to do with availability of play surfaces and how football is used as character and team building in a way that baseball is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 I'm not really seeing the point of this thread, save for another chance to take a swipe at Gawker Media. ESPN is a mendacious sleaze factory that functions primarily as the national PR arm of three of the four major sports and it deserves to be raked over the coals at every available opportunity. Is it ok if I hate them both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 Fair enough. Friends again? You're right. There is ALWAYS a choice. However, I think it's often an illusory one, because you're asking that Rivals 5 star athlete to delay gratification for long term reward in safety and likely a financial future that does not offer the same promise out of the hood. For a 17 year old, with all that is ahead of him, there really is no choice, is what I'm saying. You can't transplant your brain and life experience into theirs and hope for the best. They are working with the deck they've got, and that nearly inevitably leads to option A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Is it ok if I hate them both? Sure. I'm generally a Deadspin fan, but stuff like "BREAKING: Look What I Spied On Stuart Scott's Phone LOL!" makes my skin crawl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayNoToDMC Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 When will they be airing that documentary about how the coal industry has been giving its workers cancer for over 300 years? Coal mining isnt modern day slavery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 Sure. I'm generally a Deadspin fan, but stuff like "BREAKING: Look What I Spied On Stuart Scott's Phone LOL!" makes my skin crawl. The archives are great. Deadspin was awesome 6-7 years ago. Maybe I'm just bitter and I have no one else to talk to. It's not fair damnit! (wheeps) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 The archives are great. Deadspin was awesome 6-7 years ago. Maybe I'm just bitter and I have no one else to talk to. It's not fair damnit! (wheeps) Deadspin f*cks you. ESPN f*cks you. JN is really the only place I come to for analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayNoToDMC Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Deadspin f*cks you. ESPN f*cks you. JN is really the only place I come to for analysis. If it's come to that, sports media is truly in a dark place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Coal mining isnt modern day slavery LMC! LMC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 Deadspin f*cks you. ESPN f*cks you. JN is really the only place I come to for analysis. Its a three way tie for me. Drudge, JN and Francesa. We be trollllling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Deadspin f*cks you. ESPN f*cks you. JN is really the only place I come to for analysis. I set the bar mighty high, my dear friend. I dont blame you for tuning into my daily riveting analysis of not only Football, but life in general. Those other major media outlets could learn a ton from me but I've sworn myself to Maxman because of Crusher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Deadspin f*cks you. ESPN f*cks you. JN is really the only place I come to for analysis. Yeah, around here it's only the mods who want to **** you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexiRoll6 Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Christ almighty. As if I couldnt hate Deadspin's over the top douchiness/pretentiousness...every single day a new article apparently shining light on something we all know already. Football causes head injuries. No sh*t. And of course ESPN pulled out of the doc- like they're going to bite the hand that feeds them. Football is on its way out though imo.....but its where were eventually headed. Too many lawsuits. Too many lobbyists. Its screwed longterm. Especially with lawyers like Roger Goodell as commissioner. The NFL is headed toward a flag football league with the QB's in skirts. The HOF RB Gale Sayers was injured on a hit much like the one Keller suffered and guess what? No one raised any fuss or said Kermit Washington should be suspended or fined, Sayers had his surgery and returned a shell of his former self. Sh*t happens guys, players get injured which is why football is a Gladiator sport - NOT a contact sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayNoToDMC Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Yeah, around here it's only the mods who want to **** you. We don't tolerate gay jokes here at JN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 It's a fair point. I wonder what the extrinsic push towards football is though. Availability of equipment, fields, etc? It's simply not that more young black kids intrinsically like football over the last 30 years. From a logical perspective, I've never understood it. All things being equal, Right Field seems like one of the best jobs going. You can play longer, the money is still better, the toll on your body is significantly less. If I had to guess, it has something to do with availability of play surfaces and how football is used as character and team building in a way that baseball is not. Reason number one is IT'S BORING! That is like saying punter or kicker is a great job. Sure it is, but it's BORING. Next is that baseball is a skill. Hitting a baseball is a skill more than just athletic ability. Basketball and football are where great athletes are basically sure things. Plenty of super fast, super strong guys still can't cut it in baseball, but in football and basketball there almost always is a place. I do agree that if football toppled over baseball would benefit, but it's far from the sure thing for the athlete and the payoff takes longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOJOTOWNSELL Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 the amount of grade school kids who are allowed to play football has been steadily declining for a few years now. Coaches dont have enough scrubs to fill scout or practice teams. football is turning into boxing and horse racing....relic of the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayNoToDMC Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Especially with lawyers like Roger Goodell as commissioner. The NFL is headed toward a flag football league with the QB's in skirts. The HOF RB Gale Sayers was injured on a hit much like the one Keller suffered and guess what? No one raised any fuss or said Kermit Washington should be suspended or fined, Sayers had his surgery and returned a shell of his former self. Sh*t happens guys, players get injured which is why football is a Gladiator sport - NOT a contact sport. I couldn't disagree more. If you can't learn to hit an area of one square foot on a moving target while moving at full speed yourself then you probably need to find another sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 the fact that the NFL bullied ESPN to withdraw from this project pretty much says it all. the league knows it has a problem. They are in the "Smoking is recommended by doctors" phase of this s--tshow. Science denial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 the fact that the NFL bullied ESPN to withdraw from this project pretty much says it all. the league knows it has a problem. They are in the "Smoking is recommended by doctors" phase of this s--tshow. Science denial. If they were altering catscans its a problem. If doctors were lying like the guy in Any Given Sunday, its a problem. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 If they were altering catscans its a problem. If doctors were lying like the guy in Any Given Sunday, its a problem. We'll see. I wonder what Al Toon and Wayne Chrebet think about this documentary. Assuming they can stand the light of a tv screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 I wonder what Al Toon and Wayne Chrebet think about this documentary. Assuming they can stand the light of a tv screen. Toon's son is in the NFL. Chrebet tweets about the league all the time. What's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 the fact that the NFL bullied ESPN to withdraw from this project pretty much says it all. the league knows it has a problem. They are in the "Smoking is recommended by doctors" phase of this s--tshow. Science denial. Yes, but remember, THAT IS THE GOLDEN AGE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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