Rex vs. Bellichick Record Comparison: 78 Games Each

[JiFtheOracle]

Belichick also has a history of shutting down great QB's. 

 

So does Rex Ryan.

[Matt39]

So does Rex Ryan.

 

Not nearly to the extent Belichick has.

[The Crusher]

Belichick also has a history of shutting down great QB's. 

 

 

Easy when your offense holds onto the ball and gets a lot of first downs.

[JiFtheOracle]

Not nearly to the extent Belichick has.

 

Hasnt coached as long.  Having a HOF QB doesnt hurt either.

[Matt39]

Hasnt coached as long.  Having a HOF QB doesnt hurt either.

 

Right. But Belichick having the reputation as being one of the best defensive coaches ever doesn't have anything to do with having Brady as his QB. 

[joewillie78]

Not true today.  Nobody wins Superbowls without great QB play anymore. 

Truer words were never spoken. #1 priority for Jets: FRANCHISE QB.

[faba]

Yes the biggest decision for this team is 

 

Truer words were never spoken. #1 priority for Jets: FRANCHISE QB.

Yes but 20 to 25 teams are looking for that elusive prize also

[joewillie78]

Yes the biggest decision for this team is 

 

Yes but 20 to 25 teams are looking for that elusive prize also

Noooo, we went over this in another thread. In actuality, only about 10. However it seems to be the same 10 looking every year:

Jacksonville, the Jets, Cleveland TB, Tenn, Minnesota etc.

 

For me, try to get a vet, as cheap as possible, and then trade up to get Teddy, Johnny Football,  or possibly Bortles. If they dont trade up, then look to the next "tier": McCarron, Carr, Mettenberg or Murray.

[The Crusher]

Truer words were never spoken. #1 priority for Jets: FRANCHISE QB.

 

 

I say take a QB in the first and second rounds till we find one. 

[The Crusher]

Right. But Belichick having the reputation as being one of the best defensive coaches ever doesn't have anything to do with having Brady as his QB. 

 

 

Knowing the play the other team is calling helps a little too.

[joewillie78]

I say take a QB in the first and second rounds till we find one. 

Absolutely.

[CTM]

There's way more to building a successful franchise/culture then just finding a QB. Brady hasn't even played that well this season.

 

 

Maybe, but it's impossible without a QB. There is no team that has had sustained succcess, year in and year out, that doesn't have the QB.

[PatriotReign37]

I ripped this from PFT. Some surprising numbers. For those statistical purists, a valid sample consists of 32 observations. 

 

Through their first 78 games as head coach:

Dumb Rex Ryan: 39-39

Genius Bill Belichick: 35-43

Rule: no quarterback, no win.

Also this:

Belichick’s record with Tom Brady: 146-43 (.772)

Belichick’s record without Tom Brady: 51-62 (.451)

P.S. The thing that’s so compelling about Belichick’s record *without* Brady is that there’s a very big sample of it (113 games, or basically 7 full seasons), so it’s that much more reliable.

Also, contrary to popular opinion, Belichick’s poor career record without Brady is not simply a function of what happened in Cleveland. By way of example:

Belichick in Cleveland: 36-44 (.450)

Belichick in New England *without* Brady: 15-18 (.454)

Virtually identical winning percentages.

 

  Not accurate because Belichick was in a bad situation in Cleveland.

 

1. He had to go in and cut the hometown hero in Kosar. That went over like a lead balloon.

2. Then, rumors surfaced prior to the Cleveland Browns last season that the team was moving.

 

Rex never had to deal with those things. He started out with a clean slate and could have had any FA or draftee QB that he wanted. He saw something in Sanchez. What? Who knows.

 

Like it or not but Belichick has become a complete HC in NE. He has control over the offense too.

[PatriotReign37]

There's way more to building a successful franchise/culture then just finding a QB. Brady hasn't even played that well this season.

Depth

 

NE is deep almost everywhere.

[PFSIKH]

  Not accurate because Belichick was in a bad situation in Cleveland.

 

1. He had to go in and cut the hometown hero in Kosar. That went over like a lead balloon.

2. Then, rumors surfaced prior to the Cleveland Browns last season that the team was moving.

 

Rex never had to deal with those things. He started out with a clean slate and could have had any FA or draftee QB that he wanted. He saw something in Sanchez. What? Who knows.

 

Like it or not but Belichick has become a complete HC in NE. He has control over the offense too.

 

Save your breath.  I made the same points on like pages 2 through 8.

 

Belichick was far from perfect in Cleveland (or Foxboro for that matter), but he can coach and run a team.

 

The Browns were a lot better when he was fired than when he arrived.

[joewillie78]

Maybe, but it's impossible without a QB. There is no team that has had sustained succcess, year in and year out, that doesn't have the QB.

Awesome post. And it only becomes even more prevalent as the league keeps progressing more and more to a pass happy, QB driven league. Bravo.

[PatriotReign37]

Save your breath.  I made the same points on like pages 2 through 8.

 

Belichick was far from perfect in Cleveland (or Foxboro for that matter), but he can coach and run a team.

 

The Browns were a lot better when he was fired than when he arrived.

 

The Ravens had 2 - 1st round draft picks thanks to Belichick.

 

1 was used to draft Ray Lewis.

[PatriotReign37]

Save your breath.  I made the same points on like pages 2 through 8.

 

Belichick was far from perfect in Cleveland (or Foxboro for that matter), but he can coach and run a team.

 

The Browns were a lot better when he was fired than when he arrived.

 

  Belichick should be COTY with all the losses the Pats have sustained.

[Bugg]

Save your breath.  I made the same points on like pages 2 through 8.

 

Belichick was far from perfect in Cleveland (or Foxboro for that matter), but he can coach and run a team.

 

The Browns were a lot better when he was fired than when he arrived.

In his penultimate season The Browns won 11 games and a home playoff game. Look, he may have the personality of a urinal cake and the morals of a streetwalker but the guy can coach rings around Wrecks because despite coming up as a defensive coach he understands talent and offense. That Brady wasn't put back on the bench when Bledsoe got healthy says a lot. And it's a risky move that Wrecks WOULD NEVER MAKE. NEVER. Because Wrecks is a risk averse scared  braindead dope. Which is the great irony;with all the false bravado Wrecks is the most  by the book pussy ball guy in the NFL.

[Matt39]

In his penultimate season The Browns won 11 games and a home playoff game. Look, he may have the personality of a urinal cake and the morals of a streetwalker but the guy can coach rings around Wrecks because despite coming up as a defensive coach he understands talent and offense. That Brady wasn't put back on the bench when Bledsoe got healthy says a lot. And it's a risky move that Wrecks WOULD NEVER MAKE. NEVER. Because Wrecks is a risk averse scared  braindead dope. Which is the great irony;with all the false bravado Wrecks is the most  by the book pussy ball guy in the NFL.

 

Saying Rex would be as good as Belichick if he had Brady is offensive the the sport of football.

[Sperm Edwards]

Rex has a long way to go before he's going to get any serious "compares-favorably-to" comparisons to Belichick with his 3 rings (and 5 SB appearances).  Comparing first HC job to first HC job is only questionably fair since we know now of the success BB went on to in NE.  But this romanticizing of the great job he did as HC in Cleveland is silly.  He inherited a team that had a better record than the team on paper should have been, just like the '96 Jets were better than a 1-win team (on paper) but for the worst coaching ever.

 

I still remember all those pro bowlers Belichick drafted & then developed in Cleveland.  Let's see, there was Eric Turner, who he got with the #2 overall pick in the draft, and there was...  and then there was...  and also...

 

This "failed to develop: thing presumes there were develop-able players on the roster.  So how come Belichick "failed to develop" these round 1-3 players he was so involved (if not instrumental) in drafting: Tommy Vardell (#9 in the country), Patrick Rowe (rd 2), Ed King (rd 2 #29 overall), Dan Footman (rd 2), Mike Caldwell (rd 3), Derrick Alexander (rd 1), Romeo Bandison, Craig Powell (rd 1), Mike Frederick (rd 3), rookie Eric Zeier (rd 3) certainly didn't develop right away...

 

Seems to me pretty much the only draft picks he "developed" were top-15 overall picks (except Vardell, who he failed miserably at developing).  WRs like Alexander and Jackson were meh or on the bench, and then exploded (with the same QB no less) as soon as they got away from Belichick.  

 

The guy ended up being a winning HC in New England like few have ever done, but his record at "developing" draftees players in Cleveland as their HC is embarrassing, frankly.  By the time they managed an 11-win team in '94, with the exception of a #2 overall pick that was pretty obvious (Turner was the #1 safety prospect and their 2 starting safeties from 1990 were already off the team on draft day 1991), their best young players were already in place in 1990 before BB got there.  Cleveland's defense that year gave up a puny 12.8 ppg and this well-balanced team and coach still lost a third of their regular season games before getting stomped on ("choking") vs the great Neil O'Donnell and a has-been FB who composed the music for Star Wars.

[T0mShane]

So, after seeing the way Rex has managed garbage QB's, handed to him by 2 incompetent accountant GM's, you are somehow of the mindset that he would handle a HOF'er the same way?

Based on what? You think Belichick would be chucking it around with the dodo we've had at QB? 0% chance

There is no way Rex doesn't go back to Bledsoe. His weird, distorted interpretation of loyalty would forbid it. He would have had Brady hand it off twenty times per game, then shoehorned Bledsoe back into the lineup to avoid hurting his feelings.

[T0mShane]

Another thing to note: it's extremely difficult to grow a quarterback when the rest of the offense is a septic tank. Brady was a beneficiary of stepping into an offense pre-built for Bledsoe. Romo stepped into a pre-built offense. Peyton had Marvin Harrison. Aaron Rodgers walked into an offense built for Favre. More often than not, the big QBs start out playing in offenses that already have talent. When they don't, they develop the bad habits and start seeing ghosts and it gets to the point where it's impossible to convince them they can play in the NFL. So, yes, Brady benefitted from Belichick building up the offense.

[CTM]

Another thing to note: it's extremely difficult to grow a quarterback when the rest of the offense is a septic tank. Brady was a beneficiary of stepping into an offense pre-built for Bledsoe. Romo stepped into a pre-built offense. Peyton had Marvin Harrison. Aaron Rodgers walked into an offense built for Favre. More often than not, the big QBs start out playing in offenses that already have talent. When they don't, they develop the bad habits and start seeing ghosts and it gets to the point where it's impossible to convince them they can play in the NFL. So, yes, Brady benefitted from Belichick building up the offense.

So let's get this straight, in one post you are single handidly blaming Rex for the lack of offensive talent, despite it being the accountants job.... while also claiming that offense that highlighted such world beaters as Antowain smith, Troy brown and David Patten was somehow destined for success?

[GKnight83]

I thought you could set your limits, for example as the instance you are quoting would be at the 95% confidence interval, but lets say you want to use the 99% confidence interval, wouldnt that then be at the 1% level? Am I wrong? Its been a long time since statistics course?

 

You can indeed, set your own limits.  In general 95% is set for general purposes as a default.  An example is Mensa's 130 IQ requirement.  The rejection zone is 5% leaving 2.5% at both ends of the distribution.  Therefore, with a mean IQ of 100 and a standard deviation of 10, only 2.5% of the population has an IQ of 130 or higher and qualifies for membership.  99% is often used for sensitive items relating to safety or military applications. 

[T0mShane]

You can indeed, set your own limits. In general 95% is set for general purposes as a default. An example is Mensa's 130 IQ requirement. The rejection zone is 5% leaving 2.5% at both ends of the distribution. Therefore, with a mean IQ of 100 and a standard deviation of 10, only 2.5% of the population has an IQ of 130 or higher and qualifies for membership. 99% is often used for sensitive items relating to safety or military applications.

Shut up, nerd.

[GKnight83]

Shut up, nerd.

 

Well, it is clear you do not have to worry about a Mensa membership    Plus, I am not certain nerds qualify to play Division I hockey!

[GKnight83]

Are you really an Actuary? What type?

 

I am a FSA.  These days I do mainly financial and economic model analysis.

[Bugg]

There is no way Rex doesn't go back to Bledsoe. His weird, distorted interpretation of loyalty would forbid it. He would have had Brady hand it off twenty times per game, then shoehorned Bledsoe back into the lineup to avoid hurting his feelings.

Cannot beleive people fail to understand this; Ryan is risk averse in the extreme when it comes to offense because it's outside his comfort zone. It's why it took FOREVER to give McElroy a chance last year and why Simms got what, a quarter? Geno Smith is a 2nd round draft pick, not John Elway. I see nothing remotely wonderful, and better NFL QBs that him have talen a seat-Bradshaw, Phil Simms, Elway, Staubach, Favre. This idea he has to take every snap or his precious confidence will collapse forever shows more that may be he's a too precious to begin with. In each case MCelroy and Simms were the only options, and in each case he made the move only tentatively kicking and screaming with a dip of his toe in the water and no more. And he acts like that because of his stupid senseless unearned loyalty that for a coach is simply not acceptable. His job is to win football games, not worry about tender egos of players. Not giving Simms a chance to run the offense off a week of practice this year at least once was disgraceful once the playoffs were done. However based on Sunday's stirring bum fight victory vs. a Browsn team on a 6 game losing streak on it's 4th QB he should be retained. That the Jets collapsed when they had a shot at the playoffs is irrevelant as is having not had a winning streak since late 2011.

[joewillie78]

Well, it is clear you do not have to worry about a Mensa membership    Plus, I am not certain nerds qualify to play Division I hockey!

Yes they do. M y alma mater is a complete "nerd" school but we hve a Helluva D1 hockey team, and a couple of the best all-time goalies in the NHL.

[joewillie78]

Shut up, nerd.

Come on, admit it, you understood every word he just uttered , but dont want to admit it. right?

[Jacked4JetsFB]

I am a FSA.  These days I do mainly financial and economic model analysis.

 

Career ASA here, untraditional these days, was Health pricing.

[joewillie78]

Cannot beleive people fail to understand this; Ryan is risk averse in the extreme when it comes to offense because it's outside his comfort zone. It's why it took FOREVER to give McElroy a chance last year and why Simms got what, a quarter? Geno Smith is a 2nd round draft pick, not John Elway. I see nothing remotely wonderful, and better NFL QBs that him have talen a seat-Bradshaw, Phil Simms, Elway, Staubach, Favre. This idea he has to take every snap or his precious confidence will collapse forever shows more that may be he's a too precious to begin with. In each case MCelroy and Simms were the only options, and in each case he made the move only tentatively kicking and screaming with a dip of his toe in the water and no more. And he acts like that because of his stupid senseless unearned loyalty that for a coach is simply not acceptable. His job is to win football games, not worry about tender egos of players. Not giving Simms a chance to run the offense off a week of practice this year at least once was disgraceful once the playoffs were done. However based on Sunday's stirring bum fight victory vs. a Browsn team on a 6 game losing streak on it's 4th QB he should be retained. That the Jets collapsed when they had a shot at the playoffs is irrevelant as is having not had a winning streak since late 2011.

Great post, I agree 100%. Putting your BUTT out there on the line, especially when dealing with OFFENSE, has never been a Rex quality. Status quo and Safe are his motto on offense.

[slats]

Cannot beleive people fail to understand this; Ryan is risk averse in the extreme when it comes to offense because it's outside his comfort zone. It's why it took FOREVER to give McElroy a chance last year and why Simms got what, a quarter?

Or maybe it's because they suck, too. Just throwing the possibility out there.

[PFSIKH]

Rex has a long way to go before he's going to get any serious "compares-favorably-to" comparisons to Belichick with his 3 rings (and 5 SB appearances).  Comparing first HC job to first HC job is only questionably fair since we know now of the success BB went on to in NE.  But this romanticizing of the great job he did as HC in Cleveland is silly.  He inherited a team that had a better record than the team on paper should have been, just like the '96 Jets were better than a 1-win team (on paper) but for the worst coaching ever.

 

I still remember all those pro bowlers Belichick drafted & then developed in Cleveland.  Let's see, there was Eric Turner, who he got with the #2 overall pick in the draft, and there was...  and then there was...  and also...

 

This "failed to develop: thing presumes there were develop-able players on the roster.  So how come Belichick "failed to develop" these round 1-3 players he was so involved (if not instrumental) in drafting: Tommy Vardell (#9 in the country), Patrick Rowe (rd 2), Ed King (rd 2 #29 overall), Dan Footman (rd 2), Mike Caldwell (rd 3), Derrick Alexander (rd 1), Romeo Bandison, Craig Powell (rd 1), Mike Frederick (rd 3), rookie Eric Zeier (rd 3) certainly didn't develop right away...

 

Seems to me pretty much the only draft picks he "developed" were top-15 overall picks (except Vardell, who he failed miserably at developing).  WRs like Alexander and Jackson were meh or on the bench, and then exploded (with the same QB no less) as soon as they got away from Belichick.  

 

The guy ended up being a winning HC in New England like few have ever done, but his record at "developing" draftees players in Cleveland as their HC is embarrassing, frankly.  By the time they managed an 11-win team in '94, with the exception of a #2 overall pick that was pretty obvious (Turner was the #1 safety prospect and their 2 starting safeties from 1990 were already off the team on draft day 1991), their best young players were already in place in 1990 before BB got there.  Cleveland's defense that year gave up a puny 12.8 ppg and this well-balanced team and coach still lost a third of their regular season games before getting stomped on ("choking") vs the great Neil O'Donnell and a has-been FB who composed the music for Star Wars.

 

Great job?  No.

 

As I said above and the points you covered, Belichick was far from perfect in Cleveland.  He made a ton of mistakes no arguments.

 

The only point I will argue is the mess he took over.  The Browns, were not this years Chiefs (e.g. 2-14 team w/6 Pro Bowlers).  He had one probowler.  The Browns had 13 new starters in Belichick's first year, 8 on D. 

 

Again, agreed with all his mistakes in Cleveland, but he did turn a bad team around.