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Kiper has Jets taking Marqise Lee in his first published mock

Matt39

By Matt39
in NY Jets Forum

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SMC

SMC

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First, he has to go #1, and most are predicting that if Houston does stay at 1, they are taking Bridgewater, so if Johnny "falls" a bit, but he doesnt get past Cleveland at #4, so they have to move to #2 or #3.

That being said, RGIII and LUCK were considered MUCH BETTER prospects than Bridgewater and Manziel, so it shouldnt take as much to move as it did for those 2.

So I say we flip #1's obviously give them #1 next year and a #2 from this year or next. If thats not enough, then simply stay. Now someone in another thread said flip our #1's and give them Wilkerson.

Look, I am not giving an RGIII type deal. Its just too much BUT if he does start to fall, then IDZIK must be prepared with a lesser package to move to where he can get him.

Gotcha.

But an RGIII deal or bigger is the only way the Jets would be able to get into Manziel range. He's not slipping past 5 and there's no Mangini around for a sweetheart type trade deal.

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BroadwayJoe12

BroadwayJoe12

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rotoworld broke down the top 4 wr (watkins, evans, lee and Benjamin) pretty informative 

 

qd2U26t.jpg

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/46006/349/peshek-top-4-wr-metrics

 

 

12.31% drop rate. Can't see how people bash Hill and yet call for this guy. I remember watching the senior bowl practices yesterday and some guy who worked with the Colts talked about how the Colts wouldn't look at you if you didn't catch 90% of your passes when they had Manning because if you kept dropping everything Manning wouldn't throw to you.

 

 

Drop % is such a bogus stat that it's not even worth mentioning: you know who lead the league this year in drops?? Brandon Marshall, Welker, Hartline, Vincent Jackson, Edelman, Josh Gordon, Andre Johnson, AJ Green, Eric Decker, Kendall Wright etc. It's hard to quantify the drops unless you yourself watched every one and noted who threw it, where on the field it was, what type of route etc. 

 

Just watch Lee's sophomore season, he was the best WR in all of college football. He had 121 targets (the most of the top 50 receivers) and had a whopping 72.7% catch rate, which was easily one of the highest in the nation. Bill Connelly, the guy over at Football Outsiders who created the widely used Adj. POE measure for running backs and tried to create one for receivers and it basically showed that Marqisee Lee in 2012 was in a totally different stratosphere compared to everyone else.  

 

If Lee were 6'3 220 instead of 6' 195, everyone would be all over his nuts.  This guy is going to be a perennial 80 catch 1000 yard receiver if he gets on a team with anyone but Tebow. I'm back on my old hype train, dude is gonna be the best receiver in the draft.

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BroadwayJoe12

BroadwayJoe12

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I've caught myself being one too this year, but I think people are being prisoners of the moment and forgetting just how good this guy is.  His 2012 campaign in the PAC-12 was beyond video-game like, he was unbelievable.  I know T0m and I were man-crushing on him hard last year and decided anything that could make him fall would be a god-send. Well, Lane Kiffen, USC's QB carousel and a few injuries may have answer our prayers to the football gods, because if this were last year, no way he falls to 18. 

 

"He may be the best receiver I've had the opportunity to coach against. He's impressive on film, but even more impressive when you watch him in person" - Chip Kelly (Former Oregon Coach and Current Eagles Coach)

 

"Marqise Lee is the best college receiver since I scout Randy Moss." David Shaw (Stanford Head Coach)

 

"He's not an NFL prospect, he's an NFL for-sure. He could start in the NFL right now" - Jim Mora (UCLA Head Coach)

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BroadwayJoe12

BroadwayJoe12

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Any knocks on Lee's size? Seems thin-ish?

 

Anyone who's not 6'3 215 is going to have knocks on their size, but he looks a solid 6' 195 lbs, which puts him in the Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Tory Holt category.  Robert Woods measured in at 6'1 200ish and having seen them stand side by side a lot, I'm gonna guess Lee measures in at the aforementioned specs. 

 

 

He's not going to be your AJ Green or Calvin Johnson who's going to win the big 50/50 deep balls the majority of the time or be the deep-threat that TY Hilston is, he's much more of a get him the ball quick and watch what he does with it type of receiver.  Yes, he's got great speed and can do the things the others do, but that's not his game. Like Wayne and Holt, he's a fantastic route runner who can cut his route off without slowing down and gets in and out of his breaks as well as anyone I've seen since Wayne/Holt/Harrison.  He's going to be Geno's best friend if he falls to us, just watch how quickly he gets out of his breaks and then what he does with the ball. 

 

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9914376

 

 

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=10177590

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HessStation

HessStation

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Big Cooks fan. Probably the closest thing we've seen to Steve Smith since he came out of Utah, he's a RB when he gets the balls in his hands, it's incredible.

although maybe not a first team all pro ceiling like the big 3 I've somewhat half convinced myself Cooks will end up the most productive out of the lot.
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BroadwayJoe12

BroadwayJoe12

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Wayne or Holt are good comparisons for Lee's ceiling.

 

I've been saying the Holt comparison for a while, I just get that feeling when I see him. And while Holt was a stud coming out of NCstate, he learned a lot from Isaac Bruce, which is not something Lee will have the opportunity to do.  Honestly, he could learn a lot from Holmes if he were resigned on the cheap, which I don't think will happen after his tumultuous history here, but that'd be someone that could teach Lee a lot.  Maybe now that Kerley has been in the league for a handful of years, he could start to take on more of a mentor role with the younger guys, but I definitely do see the Holt/Wayne/Harrison ceiling for Lee.  

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BroadwayJoe12

BroadwayJoe12

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another interesting lee tidbit

 

 

Impressive in doing what, bench press and running? Not sure I care who's better preparing for the combine, rather I care who's better on the field.  I haven't seen enough of Davis to really make a statement on him, but I know that Lee's 2012 season was one of the best things I"ve seen in college in a while; it was more impressive to me than Crabtree's season back in '08 or whenever it was. Personally, I just think Lee is going to be a stud and not really sure he even makes it to us to be honest.

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Il Mostro

Il Mostro

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Lee's predraft story is beginning to sound eerily reminiscent to Keenan Allen's.

 

A little.  But the knee clean-up for Lee is very minor and should not hamper him in the combine.  Allen couldn't run at all in the combine and was sill not recovered for his post-combine workouts where he ran 4.7-4.8, so Lee will not drop nearly as much.  If he is still there at 18, it is a gift.

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joewillie78

joewillie78

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Serious question, so if or when Mike Evans runs a 4.63 would you still want to take him at 18?

Hmmm, boy tough question. I watched him all year, mainly because I loved watching Manziel, and I'm not really sure the way he plays that he has to be a burner, but 4.6 is pretty darn slow. I would say that if he cant break 4.6, then I would tread lightly. Of course if he does, then he's not there at 18 anyway. If he's still there at #18, then something is seriously wrong.

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joewillie78

joewillie78

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Wow, all the rest of the stats make Lee look not as good as the others, also.

I wonder what Hill's drop% was when we took him. I dont think Jet fans would have the stomach, after watching Hill drop so many to have another one come in and start dropping passes. Also, that list of USC receivers Bit produced that have basically been failures in the NFL was also somewhat disconcerting.

 

Thoughts?

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SenorGato

SenorGato

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Anyone who's not 6'3 215 is going to have knocks on their size, but he looks a solid 6' 195 lbs, which puts him in the Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Tory Holt category.  Robert Woods measured in at 6'1 200ish and having seen them stand side by side a lot, I'm gonna guess Lee measures in at the aforementioned specs. 

 

 

He's not going to be your AJ Green or Calvin Johnson who's going to win the big 50/50 deep balls the majority of the time or be the deep-threat that TY Hilston is, he's much more of a get him the ball quick and watch what he does with it type of receiver.  Yes, he's got great speed and can do the things the others do, but that's not his game. Like Wayne and Holt, he's a fantastic route runner who can cut his route off without slowing down and gets in and out of his breaks as well as anyone I've seen since Wayne/Holt/Harrison.  He's going to be Geno's best friend if he falls to us, just watch how quickly he gets out of his breaks and then what he does with the ball. 

 

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9914376

 

 

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=10177590

 

Yeah Im sold. Was coming in here to post that and saw this. Maybe even over Watkins, maybe.

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Il Mostro

Il Mostro

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Serious question, so if or when Mike Evans runs a 4.63 would you still want to take him at 18?

 

 

I love Mike Evans.  By the time he settles into the NFL, he is going to be half-wide receiver; half-tight end; and half-animal.  He won't be there, though.

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Il Mostro

Il Mostro

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Any knocks on Lee's size? Seems thin-ish?

 

 

Crusher can work with him.  Nothing wrong with Lee that a little bacon won't fix.  Seriously, he is a kid.  He is a hard worker and will get bigger and stronger.  Not going to be an issue IMO.  Plus, he works and takes pride in his blocking.  You have to love that.

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BroadwayJoe12

BroadwayJoe12

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Yeah Im sold. Was coming in here to post that and saw this. Maybe even over Watkins, maybe.

 

 

Crusher can work with him.  Nothing wrong with Lee that a little bacon won't fix.  Seriously, he is a kid.  He is a hard worker and will get bigger and stronger.  Not going to be an issue IMO.  Plus, he works and takes pride in his blocking.  You have to love that.

 

Check out the above video at the 7:00 mark, probably my favorite reception of his that I've seen. Tie game between USC and Stanford, 4th and 2, Lee comes back on the field after he already left with the knee injury to make the big time reception to get the first down and then proceeds to leave with the same knee injury.  The thing with everyone knocking his drop % probably didn't see a single snap of his amazing 2012 season, he was freakish. The kid can catch in traffic and take pretty much anything to the house, he's gonna be a good one. I would absolutely love to pair him with say a Jordan Matthews, Kelvin Benjamin or ASJ in the second.  Haha I know I'm just getting my hopes up to be crushed: once this kid beasts the combine and people remember what he did last year, he's not making it to 18.

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Il Mostro

Il Mostro

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Check out the above video at the 7:00 mark, probably my favorite reception of his that I've seen. Tie game between USC and Stanford, 4th and 2, Lee comes back on the field after he already left with the knee injury to make the big time reception to get the first down and then proceeds to leave with the same knee injury.  The thing with everyone knocking his drop % probably didn't see a single snap of his amazing 2012 season, he was freakish. The kid can catch in traffic and take pretty much anything to the house, he's gonna be a good one. I would absolutely love to pair him with say a Jordan Matthews, Kelvin Benjamin or ASJ in the second.  Haha I know I'm just getting my hopes up to be crushed: once this kid beasts the combine and people remember what he did last year, he's not making it to 18.

 

Not to mention the drop of in QB skills from Barkely to the two $hit QB's in 2013.  Even though the draft gurus knock the body catches, he shows plenty of examples of catching the ball with his hands.  With the crap QB's in 2013 and Kiffen's retarded approach, he did not go downfield nearly as much as he should have.  So many quick throws and relying on him to do the rest -- which he did.  He is exactly what Geno needs.

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BroadwayJoe12

BroadwayJoe12

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Not to mention the drop of in QB skills from Barkely to the two $hit QB's in 2013.  Even though the draft gurus knock the body catches, he shows plenty of examples of catching the ball with his hands.  With the crap QB's in 2013 and Kiffen's retarded approach, he did not go downfield nearly as much as he should have.  So many quick throws and relying on him to do the rest -- which he did.  He is exactly what Geno needs.

 

Exactly. People harp on body-catching all the time, but fail to acknowledge that sometimes it's not really the worst option. That and you see even the best receivers in the league doing it, especially CJ. When you're running a route at full speed and the QB doesn't put the ball out in front of you where you can reach out and snag it, but puts it right in your gut, it's in such a no-man's land that cradling it once it hits your body is the only real option.  And as you mentioned, it's not as if he can't diamond catch it, he's clearly shown the ability, but Kessler wasn't as accurate with the ball as Barkley was and it showed in Lee's production.  Holmes is someone who's let balls get into his body throughout the years, but has also shown to have amazing hands. The two are not mutually exclusive.

 

Granted, 12% is a very high drop rate, but when you consider that he saw 121 targets the year prior (the most in the country) and caught 73% of them, you just know that the QB play, injuries and Kiffen had it's toll on Lee this year. 

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eboozer

eboozer

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I've been saying the Holt comparison for a while, I just get that feeling when I see him. And while Holt was a stud coming out of NCstate, he learned a lot from Isaac Bruce, which is not something Lee will have the opportunity to do.  Honestly, he could learn a lot from Holmes if he were resigned on the cheap, which I don't think will happen after his tumultuous history here, but that'd be someone that could teach Lee a lot.  Maybe now that Kerley has been in the league for a handful of years, he could start to take on more of a mentor role with the younger guys, but I definitely do see the Holt/Wayne/Harrison ceiling for Lee.  

Wouldn't mind the Jets bringing in Holt as the receiver's coach. Didn't he come and work a bit with the WR's a couple of years back at the Jets invitation. We need someone a whole lot better than Sanjay when dealing with all these young receivers we are looking to add.

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eboozer

eboozer

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dumbing_down_education.jpg

THIS!

 

 Having gone through a 4 yr. college (on the 6 yr. drinking plan) I can honestly say, the most important things you learn are the one's you learn in pre-school/Kgarten

 

All I Really Need To Know

I Learned In Kindergarten

by Robert Fulghum

- an excerpt from the book, All I Really Need To Know I Learned in Kindergarten

 

All I really need to know I learned in kindergarten.

ALL I REALLY NEED TO KNOW about how to live and what to do

and how to be I learned in kindergarten. Wisdom was not

at the top of the graduate-school mountain, but there in the

sandpile at Sunday School. These are the things I learned:

Share everything.

Play fair.

Don't hit people.

Put things back where you found them.

Clean up your own mess.

Don't take things that aren't yours.

Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody.

Wash your hands before you eat.

Flush.

Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you.

Live a balanced life - learn some and think some

and draw and paint and sing and dance and play

and work every day some.

Take a nap every afternoon.

When you go out into the world, watch out for traffic,

hold hands, and stick together.

Be aware of wonder.

Remember the little seed in the styrofoam cup:

The roots go down and the plant goes up and nobody

really knows how or why, but we are all like that.

Goldfish and hamsters and white mice and even

the little seed in the Styrofoam cup - they all die.

So do we.

And then remember the Dick-and-Jane books

and the first word you learned - the biggest

word of all - LOOK.

Everything you need to know is in there somewhere.

The Golden Rule and love and basic sanitation.

Ecology and politics and equality and sane living.

Take any of those items and extrapolate it into

sophisticated adult terms and apply it to your

family life or your work or your government or

your world and it holds true and clear and firm.

Think what a better world it would be if

all - the whole world - had cookies and milk about

three o'clock every afternoon and then lay down with

our blankies for a nap. Or if all governments

had a basic policy to always put thing back where

they found them and to clean up their own mess.

And it is still true, no matter how old you

are - when you go out into the world, it is best

to hold hands and stick together.

 

© Robert Fulghum, 1990.

Found in Robert Fulghum, All I Really Need To Know I Learned In Kindergarten, Villard Books: New York, 1990, page 6-7.

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flgreen

flgreen

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I wonder what Hill's drop% was when we took him. I dont think Jet fans would have the stomach, after watching Hill drop so many to have another one come in and start dropping passes. Also, that list of USC receivers Bit produced that have basically been failures in the NFL was also somewhat disconcerting.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Hill dropped 1 ball this year for a 1.7%.

 

 

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2013/

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