Sperm Edwards Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Gacomini is AT BEST a lateral move, he'll probably be worse. Wilson is terrible, at least as an outside CB. Do you see a pattern here? We're starting with a bottom 5 roster in the NFL and making at best, lateral moves, talent wise. That isn't good enough with this amount of cap room. The Jet FO probably thinks, hey we were an 8 win team last year and we just need a few breaks to get to 10-6 when in fact that roster last season was 4 win quality and got LUCKY to win 8 games. Any luck regression and we're looking at 5 wins this season. lol It's amazing. There isn't a single thing you've written here that I agree with, from your player assessment to your imaginary role playing with the Jets' FO. Literally not a single thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Where would you put this roster? If it's not bottom 5, it's bottom 7. Which is kind of why I didnt see the reason in signing Howard, DRC etc...would rather hopefully fill those positions via the draft. I'd rather be terrible than mediocre while we fix the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Situational players shouldn't be first round picks but that ship has sailed... Gacomini is AT BEST a lateral move, he'll probably be worse. Wilson is terrible, at least as an outside CB. Do you see a pattern here? We're starting with a bottom 5 roster in the NFL and making at best, lateral moves, talent wise. That isn't good enough with this amount of cap room. Yes, I do see a pattern here; you distorting reality to push an agenda. Breno will probably be worse? Based on what? Oh, that's right, absolutely nothing. He measured out as a superior player to Howard with the one possible benefit to Howard being health. Besides, if it does turn out to be only a lateral move, what's wrong with that? You were just complaining about the loss of Howard, now suddenly an equivalent replacement isn't good enough? That seems just a tad bit hypocritical. As for Wilson, he played pretty much all of 2012 outside and did fine, certainly better than Cro did in 2013. Cro was an outright disaster last season, grading out as one of the very worst CBs in the entire league. If you think the Jets should have done more so far and don't like their decisions, that is certainly your prerogative, and you're clearly not alone there. But it is a blatant disregard for reality when you're building up every loss of the Jets as significant, no matter how badly they performed in 2013, and then dismissing their replacements, no matter how well they performed, because it doesn't fit your agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I see the FO doing things YOU, as an individual, do not like and you irrationally overreacting. Not overpaying for every POS overrated big name free agent isn't stupid. It's actually quite smart. None of the guys the Jets "lost out" on would have made us a Super Bowl team this year despite your wildest fantasies. It's actually quite smart to completely misread the FA market and even miss out on the midlevel players you want for depth because you have no idea what players are worth or what the market dictates? News to me. Nothing about what I'm saying is irrational. What's irrational is giving people with ZERO winning track record the benefit of the doubt based on wishful thinking and hoping that they know what they are doing, just like you said when Mike T was the GM. No one said the Jets would be a super bowl team but this owner says he wants to win now and it's been reported in the media that the coach has to make the playoffs or he's fired so a 10-11 win playoff season is what that means to me and they are LIGHTYEARS away from even that with this roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Which is kind of why I didnt see the reason in signing Howard, DRC etc...would rather hopefully fill those positions via the draft. I'd rather be terrible than mediocre while we fix the roster. This is exactly the strategy that keeps you relevant, but never all that good. It's amazing that so many learned nothing from the past decade. Being a perrenial wildcard team or almost wildcard team gets you nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 No. Milliner is who he is. Players are always only ever as good as they are in their first game. All players lack the ability to improve over time. It literally never happens. If a player sucks the first time he steps foot on the field as a pro you might as well replace him ASAP because it ain't ever getting any better. How long before somebody quotes Parcells? If they don't bite when they're pups, they won't bite when they are grown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Yes, I do see a pattern here; you distorting reality to push an agenda. Breno will probably be worse? Based on what? Oh, that's right, absolutely nothing. He measured out as a superior player to Howard with the one possible benefit to Howard being health. Besides, if it does turn out to be only a lateral move, what's wrong with that? You were just complaining about the loss of Howard, now suddenly an equivalent replacement isn't good enough? That seems just a tad bit hypocritical. As for Wilson, he played pretty much all of 2012 outside and did fine, certainly better than Cro did in 2013. Cro was an outright disaster last season, grading out as one of the very worst CBs in the entire league. If you think the Jets should have done more so far and don't like their decisions, that is certainly your prerogative, and you're clearly not alone there. But it is a blatant disregard for reality when you're building up every loss of the Jets as significant, no matter how badly they performed in 2013, and then dismissing their replacements, no matter how well they performed, because it doesn't fit your agenda. He graded out worse than Howard in pass protection and better in run blocking. It's a lateral move. Wilson was graded the worst CB in the NFL in 2012. DEAD LAST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 It's actually quite smart to completely misread the FA market and even miss out on the midlevel players you want for depth because you have no idea what players are worth or what the market dictates? News to me. Nothing about what I'm saying is irrational. What's irrational is giving people with ZERO winning track record the benefit of the doubt based on wishful thinking and hoping that they know what they are doing, just like you said when Mike T was the GM. No one said the Jets would be a super bowl team but this owner says he wants to win now and it's been reported in the media that the coach has to make the playoffs or he's fired so a 10-11 win playoff season is what that means to me and they are LIGHTYEARS away from even that with this roster. Yeah... nothing you are saying is irrational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 OMG, the owner said he wants to win now!?!?!?!? Because, I totally expected him to say something like, "We're good with another non-playoff season." This changes everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 This is exactly the strategy that keeps you relevant, but never all that good. It's amazing that so many learned nothing from the past decade. Being a perrenial wildcard team or almost wildcard team gets you nothing. This idea of a 3 year or whatever rebuild in the NFL is foolishnes. Teams turn it around in one year all the time. It happens every season and every team should be in "win now" mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 This idea of a 3 year or whatever rebuild in the NFL is foolishnes. Teams turn it around in one year all the time. It happens every season and every team should be in "win now" mode. Who are these teams exactly? I keep hearing this example, but I'm really not sure who we're talking about despite it happening "all the time." Jets could have bought more wins this season, yes. But, there wasn't a championship to be bought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 This idea of a 3 year or whatever rebuild in the NFL is foolishnes. Teams turn it around in one year all the time. It happens every season and every team should be in "win now" mode. I think there's a decent chance the Jets make some noise this season tbh. 12 picks, a really good defensive line...I like that we're going to rely on Ivory more too(allegedly) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 OK internet GM's what free agents did you want on the roster and how much would have you been willing to pay them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylekram Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I see the FO doing things YOU, as an individual, do not like and you irrationally overreacting. Not overpaying for every POS overrated big name free agent isn't stupid. It's actually quite smart. None of the guys the Jets "lost out" on would have made us a Super Bowl team this year despite your wildest fantasies. don't have a legitimate shot at the super bowl? = don't improve the team don't have a franchise qb on the roster? = don't improve the team don't fill enough holes in free agency? = don't worry. use the draft to fill needs instead of bpa. proven strategy. have an Achilles heal to the otherwise solid defense? fail miserably filling the void I am glad you approve of idzik" the window shopper". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 He graded out worse than Howard in pass protection and better in run blocking. It's a lateral move. Wilson was graded the worst CB in the NFL in 2012. DEAD LAST. Isn't Howard the one who got Greg McElroy killed? I lost track of how many sacks and hits he gave up after the 10th one. Now he's an impact player? Lol. Austin Howard at $6M/year - top-5 money for a RT - is completely freaking idiotic. Only makes it worse that we're a non-contender, as a contender with a limited time window can be forced into rationalizing panic moves (and those moves may actually be right for them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 He graded out worse than Howard in pass protection and better in run blocking. It's a lateral move. Wilson was graded the worst CB in the NFL in 2012. DEAD LAST. Ummm, no he wasn't. He wasn't even close to being the worst. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2013/worst-cornerback-charting-stats-2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 He graded out worse than Howard in pass protection and better in run blocking. It's a lateral move. Wilson was graded the worst CB in the NFL in 2012. DEAD LAST. Ok, fine, let's call it a lateral move. What's the problem then? If you felt they should have upgraded the position then fine, but then you can't turn around and complain about them not re-signing Howard while calling him an "impact player". As far as Wilson is concerned, I'm pretty sure that's not true, but I could certainly be wrong there so I'm curious, what was your source for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Ummm, no he wasn't. He wasn't even close to being the worst. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2013/worst-cornerback-charting-stats-2012 Funny how Vontae Davis and Aqib Talib both show up on multiple of those bottom 10 lists though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 This idea of a 3 year or whatever rebuild in the NFL is foolishnes. Teams turn it around in one year all the time. It happens every season and every team should be in "win now" mode. That's because you don't actually follow those teams that seem to turn it around in one year. A lot of people thought the Chiefs turned it around in one year last year. But the reality is the Chiefs were able to do that because they strung together 4 really nice drafts in a row and then Andy Reid and Alex Smith came in and put all the pieces together. They still didn't beat a single team with a winning record. The Jets did though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Funny how Vontae Davis and Aqib Talib both show up on multiple of those bottom 10 lists though. What's really amazing is even though Wilson sucked so bad, according to Unhappy Michael, he didn't appear in the bottom 10 of three different metrics designed to gauge CB performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Wilson was graded the worst CB in the NFL in 2012. DEAD LAST. BTW, in 2012 Wilson was not the lowest-ranked CB. Know who was one of those ranked lower in 2012? Vontae Davis. He who is now supposedly worth in the $10-11M/year range to us (whatever was required to outbid what would have eventually been Indy's top offer). http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2013/worst-cornerback-charting-stats-2012 Yeah. Vontae Davis. BTW, Talib was bottom-10 in YAC in 2012. So was Verner. Jesus, was every "name" CB on the FA market garbage in either 2012 or 2013? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Ok, fine, let's call it a lateral move. What's the problem then? If you felt they should have upgraded the position then fine, but then you can't turn around and complain about them not re-signing Howard while calling him an "impact player". As far as Wilson is concerned, I'm pretty sure that's not true, but I could certainly be wrong there so I'm curious, what was your source for that? No, the problem wasn't at RT. It was all the other positions where they don't have NFL quality starters. Going from one league avg RT to another league avg RT doesn't change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Ummm, no he wasn't. He wasn't even close to being the worst. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2013/worst-cornerback-charting-stats-2012 BTW, in 2012 Wilson was not the lowest-ranked CB. Know who was one of those ranked lower in 2012? Vontae Davis. He who is now supposedly worth in the $10-11M/year range to us (whatever was required to outbid what would have eventually been Indy's top offer). http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2013/worst-cornerback-charting-stats-2012 Yeah. Vontae Davis. BTW, Talib was bottom-10 in YAC in 2012. So was Verner. Jesus, was every "name" CB on the FA market garbage in either 2012 or 2013? Damn. Too late posting while I'm fiddling around with rewording my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Ummm, no he wasn't. He wasn't even close to being the worst. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2013/worst-cornerback-charting-stats-2012 Actually he didn't play outside in 2012. That was 2011. He's been inside for 2 years. And if your argument that Kyle Wilson is a fine starting CB, then the Jets are ****ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 don't have a legitimate shot at the super bowl? = don't improve the team don't have a franchise qb on the roster? = don't improve the team don't fill enough holes in free agency? = don't worry. use the draft to fill needs instead of bpa. proven strategy. have an Achilles heal to the otherwise solid defense? fail miserably filling the void I am glad you approve of idzik" the window shopper". 1. According to you and others the Jets had a bottom five roster, yet they would have to be considered a SB contender in order to claim they improved? 2. I don't know that the Jets do or don't have a franchise QB. I like Geno and think he will improve. That's a big part of what this year is going to be about - finding out whether or not Geno can be a franchise QB. 3. You can draft BPA and fill holes at the same time. Suggesting this isn't possible is downright stupid. 4. The Achilles heel you refer to should actually get better by removing its worst player (Cromartie) and replacing him with any one of the 6 other guys already on the roster. We also have the draft. None of the CBs available with the exception of Revis, who wanted to play for the Pats, would have been a guaranteed improvement. 5. I approve of our GM not having agents dictate terms to him in negotiation and having the discipline to stick with his plan despite what the moronic media and twitterverse says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Actually he didn't play outside in 2012. That was 2011. He's been inside for 2 years. And if your argument that Kyle Wilson is a fine starting CB, then the Jets are ****ed. No. Revis was injured in 2012 so Wilson played primarily on the outside. http://www.nfl.com/player/darrellerevis/2495717/profile In 2011, both Cromartie and Revis were healthy, Wilson was in the slot. You're a terrible fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 The bottom line is that if the Jets don't gets high level play from at least 5-6 draft picks they will not be a good team this season and that situation could've been avoided with a competent performance in free agency. The chances of getting high level play from 5-6 draft picks in one draft is pretty much nil. Also, what impact players did the jets bring back? It's all been JAGS. Their highest impact FA signed with the raiders. We don't need 5-6 impact players to be good. Aside from TE WR CB and maybe FS I don't see any massive holes in our roster. QB, we'll find out during the season if geno can play at a professional level. QB is the one hole that changes a team. Look at the pats last season. They won 11 games. Did they have anyone catching the ball? no. Their defense? pretty awful. All they had was their running game, (ours was better) and Brady. Brady kept them in games and they won 11 of them. Howard, the raiders overpaid him, and he's not exactly an impact player. Willie colon was a good resign, and if he doesn't play well, instead of being screwed for the season at guard, we can draft another good guard. I don't understand why you need someone to explain this to you. You don't need impact players at every single position, you need skill and depth. It's also not possible to have impact players at every position. I'm also sure if the jets signed chris johnson today, when our running game is the least of our problems, you'd be praising Idzik. Get a clue man, it's being run like a business, exactly like it should be due to the salary cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 No. Revis was injured in 2012 so Wilson played primarily on the outside. http://www.nfl.com/player/darrellerevis/2495717/profile In 2011, both Cromartie and Revis were healthy, Wilson was in the slot. You're a terrible fan. If you think wilson played ouside that season you're clueless. Guys like DONALD STRICKLAND were getting outside CB snaps over him because of how bad he was outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 If you think wilson played ouside that season you're clueless. Guys like DONALD STRICKLAND were getting outside CB snaps over him because of how bad he was outside. In your world is it possible to disagree with someone without calling them a name? There is no need for that stuff here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 We don't need 5-6 impact players to be good. Aside from TE WR CB and maybe FS I don't see any massive holes in our roster. QB, we'll find out during the season if geno can play at a professional level. QB is the one hole that changes a team. Look at the pats last season. They won 11 games. Did they have anyone catching the ball? no. Their defense? pretty awful. All they had was their running game, (ours was better) and Brady. Brady kept them in games and they won 11 of them. Howard, the raiders overpaid him, and he's not exactly an impact player. Willie colon was a good resign, and if he doesn't play well, instead of being screwed for the season at guard, we can draft another good guard. I don't understand why you need someone to explain this to you. You don't need impact players at every single position, you need skill and depth. It's also not possible to have impact players at every position. I'm also sure if the jets signed chris johnson today, when our running game is the least of our problems, you'd be praising Idzik. Get a clue man, it's being run like a business, exactly like it should be due to the salary cap. The jets have one of the least skilled rosters in the NFL and no depth, How about that? The Jets wanted to sign JAG extraordinaire Donald Brown which was as moronic as signing a washed up Chris Johnson. But Idzik is the double whammy. He wants to sign the wrong players and can't even get his head out of his ass to sign those guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 If you think wilson played ouside that season you're clueless. Guys like DONALD STRICKLAND were getting outside CB snaps over him because of how bad he was outside. The same Donald Strickland that was out of the league in 2012? Interesting how he was getting run over Wilson from his couch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Nope. "100% hope and fairy dust that [...] players who were flat out BAD last season will play much better in 2014. There is ZERO actual track record of past performance you can point to." If a player who had a rough rookie season - as many rookie starters do - and showed improvement in the final month give or take, that doesn't count. There are conditions that need to be met, subject to the approval of a handful of posters here, to determine whether that easily-seen improvement is the same as having terrible games. Hope and fairy dust. Zero track record. 3 free agents, of anyone's choosing, would make this team a realistic potential SB winner. Absent these choice FAs, if Smith turns the corner we can't realistically win a SB. With these choice FAs, if Smith doesn't turn the corner we can realistically win a SB. I would normally agree, but in milliner's case, he missed training camp and the preseason. He was basically just thrown into the nfl straight out of college. In his case, I think/hope it will count for something. But yeah in the whole spectrum of last year, he did good when it didn't count, doesn't count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 If you think wilson played ouside that season you're clueless. Guys like DONALD STRICKLAND were getting outside CB snaps over him because of how bad he was outside. The same Donald Strickland that was out of the league in 2012? Interesting how he was getting run over Wilson from his couch. Mike, do you even watch Jets games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Mike, do you even watch Jets games? If you think Kyle Wilson played outside in 2012 you were probably napping during that season. Don't you remember his hilarious attempt to tackle Victor Cruz (playing slot WR) on that lovely 99 yard TD that ended the Jets season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 If you think Kyle Wilson played outside in 2012 you were probably napping during that season. I don't think it Mikey. I know it because I saw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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