Idzik Issues Statement

[Jetman_67]

It seems that Schneider might resent the shabby treatment Idzik received from the fan base and the owner here and not be too keen to recommend the job to his current assistant.  Might be enough to scare off Bevell or Quinn too.  Quinn witnessed what some might have called a premature axing of Mangini while he was the DL coach also, so if he has other offers he might want nothing to do with Woody.  At least he is a Jersey guy so that could help.

Woody was right when he stressed the importance of chemistry between the GM and HC. If he can pull it off and get Quinn and Trent Kirchner, he will have that chemistry built in. Plus they both come from a winning culture with a proven track record. Developing a new culture in Florham Park will be a lot easier if you can bring 2 guys who are already used to working together. 

[FidelioJet]

Agree. He was/is a very respected individual. He got the shaft. The nastiness about this man is ridiculous. In October Johnson liked his longterm vision and plan. Now he is fired. Absurd. Probably would have gotten Quinn to come here.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/columnists/bob-glauber/seattle-gm-says-john-idzik-is-right-man-for-jets-1.9729547

 

Thank you for logical, thoughtful thinking.  The way he was treated by all involved was disgraceful.  Woody more than anyone.  What Jet fans should be most concerned about is that, once again, Woody made a very serious decision mainly for PR reasons.

[Smashmouth]

I liked Idzik's philosophy. A lot. But he was completely clueless in the draft. Combine Idzik's philosophy with a good football mind and evaluator and he will likely be a great GM

but that's why they hire capologists so football men can be football men

[FidelioJet]

John Idzik was only considered for the Jets job -and not for any other GM job- because he was willing to work with a head coach already on place. Better candidates passed on even interviewing for the job if they had to accept that condition, but not John, he was happy just for the opportunity. The reason for that is also not really complicated: he's not qualified to be an NFL GM, and somewhere deep in his heart, he probably understands that.

He never should've gotten a GM job in the first place. Firing him was more than justified.

 

This is the most over reported yet unsubstantiated claim.  There are only 32 of these jobs in the world.  Very few people are turning down the opportunity simply because they didn't want to keep the coach for a year. 

[Gastineau Lives]

He's going to go back to Seattle and have a good laugh with John Schneider over what a ****fest working here was. 

 

Yeah, but what about Tom Wopat?

[Gastineau Lives]

My support was never about Idzik himself, rather it was about what firing him was going to say about the organization as a whole. I thought it was important to make it look like Johnson had some level of conviction with these choices instead of giving the appearance that he lets Manish Mehta influence his decision-making. Running Idzik out of town at this point, imo, makes the organization look silly and wanton, but the assumed presence of Wolf and Casserly attenuates that a little bit. Without them, the future of the organization rests in the hands of Woody Johnson and Neil Glat and Akselrod, which means things were about to get a lot worse for a very long time. That still might be the case. I do like what Johnson said in his presser today, pointing out that firing both men was about trying to ensure a more collaborative environment here in the future. The hope is that Casserly and Wolf sit Woody down and explain to him how the GM position is supposed to work, because the way the organization handled Idzik+Rex was an abomination.

 

I don't think the perception of the organization will suffer. There is very little for anyone to look at and go, "Wow, that guy really had something going there and he had the rug cut out from under him, those fools."

 

I guess what the market decides to do with John Idzik will tell though, no? Where do you think he ends up, and in what capacity?

[FidelioJet]

I don't think the perception of the organization will suffer. There is very little for anyone to look at and go, "Wow, that guy really had something going there and he had the rug cut out from under him, those fools."

 

I guess what the market decides to do with John Idzik will tell though, no? Where do you think he ends up, and in what capacity?

 

No, but they will be concerned with the hostile media and irrational fan base and PR driven owner.  Of course they'll be concerned with that....Anybody with knowledge, looking at this from the outside, understands how unfairly Idzik has been judged and treated.

[Cyberjet]

Thank you for logical, thoughtful thinking.  The way he was treated by all involved was disgraceful.  Woody more than anyone.  What Jet fans should be most concerned about is that, once again, Woody made a very serious decision mainly for PR reasons.

People will soon realize that the problem was the coach. I liked Ryan but he didn't have the controlled discipline across the board to succeed. There may have been a chemistry problem between Ryan and Idzik which is why you fire the coach(who had his chance) and let Idzik bring in Quinn which is what I believe would have happened. A relatively smooth transition with some continuity. This constant harping that he can't draft after just two years is silly. Go look at all the GMs and judge their drafts after their 1st two years - other than landing an impact QB it is very hard to state whether these drafts were successful or not after just two years. I read somewhere that Ron Wolf had a 37% success rate of drafting at least good players. Thst is 3 out of 12. ( Hmm those numbers sound familiar). This evaluation 10 years after the fact not years. Want to scare GM candidates - fire your GM after two years.

[FidelioJet]

People will soon realize that the problem was the coach. I liked Ryan but he didn't have the controlled discipline across the board to succeed. There may have been a chemistry problem between Ryan and Idzik which is why you fire the coach(who had his chance) and let Idzik bring in Quinn which is what I believe would have happened. A relatively smooth transition with some continuity. This constant harping that he can't draft after just two years is silly. Go look at all the GMs and judge their drafts after their 1st two years - other than landing an impact QB it is very hard to state whether these drafts were successful or not after just two years. I read somewhere that Ron Wolf had a 37% success rate of drafting at least good players. Thst is 3 out of 12. ( Hmm those numbers sound familiar). This evaluation 10 years after the fact not years. Want to scare GM candidates - fire your GM after two years.

 

in addition to the ridiculous idea that his drafts can be judged a year into them - the owner clearly bought into his "plan" it's not like Woody hired him without knowing precisely what he wanted to do with cap dollars and his long term vision.  

 

Woody bought into it, yet fired him for it. Just horrible ownership that will cost them serious candidates for this job.

[Cyberjet]

Absolutey. You have an owner - your team is 1-5 not looking good. The draft is done, you signed Decker, Giaco, you got Ivory, you've seen the FA CB self combust, you've seen the secondary decimated by injuries. You then make a calculated supportive statement that the vision and long term plan if your GM is what we need. Two months later you are 4-12 and you fire him. Great stuff Woody. Prediction: Quinn doesn't want this job as HC and GMs will avoid this job or demand a minimum of 5 years. The Jets are potentially screwed - but wait Woody has the two headed brain child Wolf Casserly - all is saved.

[Gastineau Lives]

No, but they will be concerned with the hostile media and irrational fan base and PR driven owner.  Of course they'll be concerned with that....Anybody with knowledge, looking at this from the outside, understands how unfairly Idzik has been judged and treated.

 

Yeah, except in the eyes of the national media, with people who have a more casual eye, he has been even worse. Looking at it in broad strokes, you see severe underspending on a team that went 4-12 (and a pretty bad press conference, to boot)

 

You think he has been unfairly treated because you wanted to give him five years to show what a genius plan he had in place. Of course YOU see the media as hostile, the fans irrational and this move being PR driven by Woody, when in this case, Woody has actually made the best two football moves for the franchise.

 

I think the media is in more disagreement with the Rex firing than Idzik's, by FAR.

[FidelioJet]

Yeah, except in the eyes of the national media, with people who have a more casual eye, he has been even worse. Looking at it in broad strokes, you see severe underspending on a team that went 4-12 (and a pretty bad press conference, to boot)

 

You think he has been unfairly treated because you wanted to give him five years to show what a genius plan he had in place. Of course YOU see the media as hostile, the fans irrational and this move being PR driven by Woody, when in this case, Woody has actually made the best two football moves for the franchise.

 

I think the media is in more disagreement with the Rex firing than Idzik's, by FAR.

 

No, I just don't think it's reasonable to have judged the job Idzik has done in such a short period of time (press conference withstanding - even I can't defend that)

 

I like much of what he has done and yes, would have liked to have seen him get a chance to complete his plan...

[Gastineau Lives]

No, I just don't think it's reasonable to have judged the job Idzik has done in such a short period of time (press conference withstanding - even I can't defend that)

 

I like much of what he has done and yes, would have liked to have seen him get a chance to complete his plan...

 

I think you're working on changing the phrase from "Drinking the Kool Aid" to "Eating the Fidelios".

[FidelioJet]

I think you're working on changing the phrase from "Drinking the Kool Aid" to "Eating the Fidelios".

 

I'll be done with the Idzik defending shortly - but I hope the next regime gets a chance to allow their "plan" to play out (because I don't think they should be shoved out of the door 24 games into their management)

 

And I hope we don't lose out quality candidates because of what has happened...

[vincenzo69]

John Idzik's plan: get 100 mil under the cap so we can pay Wilkerson waaaayy too much money and pick as many horrible players in the draft as possible.

[Gastineau Lives]

I'll be done with the Idzik defending shortly - but I hope the next regime gets a chance to allow their "plan" to play out (because I don't think they should be shoved out of the door 24 games into their management)

 

And I hope we don't lose out quality candidates because of what has happened...

 

Fidelio, the plan will not be much different. Draft well, don't overpay. The only difference will be that the next regime will HAVE to spend because of the rules and hopefully, they will draft better than Idzik did.

 

I think anyone, any potential candidate would not be scared off by Idzik's firing. They would be pretty sure that they could do a better job than he did, that a monkey couldn't have done much worse.

[JerryK]

I just don't think he did a bad job, other than not standing up to fire Rex last season if that was, indeed, his plan. The Ryan regime never got anything from young talent that wasn't a DL, so I can't write off Idzik's draft classes until I see them under the new coach. It's my belief that 2015 was the year that Idzik was setting up for all along, where his masterstroke would be revealed, and he had the team in position for long term success. No player over the age of 27 is signed long-term, there's some youth with potential here, and all the flotsam is easily disposable. He could have gone out and padded the roster with the DRCs and Brian Hoyers of the league, but to what end? Too eek out a few more 8-8 seasons?

 

Is it just me, or do all our playoff runs highlight players from the *prior* GM?  If we stink next year and 2016, shame on Idzik.  If we do well, shame on us.

[T0mShane]

I don't think the perception of the organization will suffer. There is very little for anyone to look at and go, "Wow, that guy really had something going there and he had the rug cut out from under him, those fools."

I guess what the market decides to do with John Idzik will tell though, no? Where do you think he ends up, and in what capacity?

You're an actor. You have your choice of a few roles, one of them playing opposite Corey Feldman on a reboot of Mork and Mindy. You ask around and find out that the producer--a guy who knows nothing about the industry--literally threw the previous two actors playing that role out of a 24th floor window, claiming that they made Corey Feldman look bad. The other roles you can get are on better shows with better producers. Why would you take the role on Mork and Mindy?

[T0mShane]

Firing him was the only option the organization as a whole had. That was not a mistake and is a move of strength. The mistakes made were two-fold. Firstly, forcing Rex on a GM. Second, Idzik keeping Rex for more than one season. Once Idzik kept Rex, they were tied together, and once one had to go, the other did too. You couldn't fire Rex and keep Idzik, because after two bad seasons, at most, you give him one more, but then you have a coach for one season and you either fire him, or force him on the next GM, and repeat. Obviously you can't fire Idzik and keep Rex, because then no one will take the job, and you might as well make Rex the GM, team president, et al.

Agreed that the hinge is the point where Rex was kept on after 2013. If that was Idzik's call, he 100% deserved to go. If that wasn't his call, then he got ****ed.

As to "needing" to fire him in order to allow continuity, we're now seeing Woody running back to Seattle to romance Dan Quinn. If Idzik was retained (or if he was allowed to fire Rex last year), wouldn't that be an easier sell to Quinn since they'd have that history together? As it stands, that Seahawks organization has to look at Johnson as the Grim Reaper.

[Gastineau Lives]

You're an actor. You have your choice of a few roles, one of them playing opposite Corey Feldman on a reboot of Mork and Mindy. You ask around and find out that the producer--a guy who knows nothing about the industry--literally threw the previous two actors playing that role out of a 24th floor window, claiming that they made Corey Feldman look bad. The other roles you can get are on better shows with better producers. Why would you take the role on Mork and Mindy?

 

Am I Mork or am I Mindy?

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

I've been meaning to ask you... I get the "It's not Idzik's fault" mentality to some degree, or at least I sympathize with the fact that Rex was forced on him and two years isn't much of a shot. But, what did we lose in Idzik that isn't easily replaceable?

So far as I can tell, restraint is the only quality there is to like. The cap cuts of last year were obvious. The draft has spoken for itself.

So long as the pendulum doesn't swing back to "Tannenbaum," I don't see what we're losing.

Continuity. Other than that you're right, but then of course there's the flip side. Not losing much, not gaining much either. To paraphrase Matty Sunshine, firing John Idzik didn't make the Jets better. Let's be realistic about this. There was never any possibility of a clearly-defined success here. He was stuck with a head coach, which defeats One Voice in and of itself, not to mention the fact that the coach is widely acknowledged to be a ******* goofball. Additionally in the two years (that was really less than two years due to the lateness of his hiring) he was GM, with the single exception of Teddy Bridgewater (which never would have flown, um, politically, and probably wouldn't have been enough, fast enough, practically), there were no gets at quarterback. I think that what he did during his tenure tacitly acknowledged that it's a whole different gig when you don't have and can't get a coach or a quarterback, and what accomplishments he was able to make in the context of the inevitable overall failure are generally going to accrue to the next guy. Replenishing depth isn't sexy. When Winters goes down and Aboushi replaces him, the mouthbreathers just see two guys who aren't very good. I see homegrown depth going next man up to a drafted starter. You know, that hallmark of good teams that was never the norm with the Jets and was never going to be unless the pendulum swung back hard from Tannenbaum's absurd pyramid scheme.

Ultimately of course I recognize, and always have, that Idzik has to go with the wash because of One Voice, which I've been saying is paramount since long before he even came around. It's just that the arguments being advanced as to why he was this clueless idiot are so unbelievably stupid that it has to give you pause. The personnel guy/contracts guy thing, for one. I mean, give me a break. Is it that hard to realize that all of the nuts and bolts work on this stuff takes place below the AGM level? Managers manage. The scouts haven't produced, and that's the problem, but even if Idzik knew going in that they sucked and that this is how much time he'd have, he still wouldn't have cleaned house. The marginal return would have been drowned out by the disruption.

I think at the end of the day Idzik represented one last shot at making it work with Rex, and frankly not a bad choice for that, assuming you think it was something worth doing in the first place.

[dbatesman]

Continuity. Other than that you're right, but then of course there's the flip side. Not losing much, not gaining much either. To paraphrase Matty Sunshine, firing John Idzik didn't make the Jets better. Let's be realistic about this. There was never any possibility of a clearly-defined success here. He was stuck with a head coach, which defeats One Voice in and of itself, not to mention the fact that the coach is widely acknowledged to be a ******* goofball. Additionally in the two years (that was really less than two years due to the lateness of his hiring) he was GM, with the single exception of Teddy Bridgewater (which never would have flown, um, politically, and probably wouldn't have been enough, fast enough, practically), there were no gets at quarterback. I think that what he did during his tenure tacitly acknowledged that it's a whole different gig when you don't have and can't get a coach or a quarterback, and what accomplishments he was able to make in the context of the inevitable overall failure are generally going to accrue to the next guy. Replenishing depth isn't sexy. When Winters goes down and Aboushi replaces him, the mouthbreathers just see two guys who aren't very good. I see homegrown depth going next man up to a drafted starter. You know, that hallmark of good teams that was never the norm with the Jets and was never going to be unless the pendulum swung back hard from Tannenbaum's absurd pyramid scheme.

Ultimately of course I recognize, and always have, that Idzik has to go with the wash because of One Voice, which I've been saying is paramount since long before he even came around. It's just that the arguments being advanced as to why he was this clueless idiot are so unbelievably stupid that it has to give you pause. The personnel guy/contracts guy thing, for one. I mean, give me a break. Is it that hard to realize that all of the nuts and bolts work on this stuff takes place below the AGM level? Managers manage. The scouts haven't produced, and that's the problem, but even if Idzik knew going in that they sucked and that this is how much time he'd have, he still wouldn't have cleaned house. The marginal return would have been drowned out by the disruption.

I think at the end of the day Idzik represented one last shot at making it work with Rex, and frankly not a bad choice for that, assuming you think it was something worth doing in the first place.

agree with this, we need a personnell guy in here

[slats]

This is the most over reported yet unsubstantiated claim.  There are only 32 of these jobs in the world.  Very few people are turning down the opportunity simply because they didn't want to keep the coach for a year.

People were turning down the Jets, though. The owner is a factor, sure. Hopefully his consultants take the lead on this next hire. But Rex's presence was also a significant factor. It's not something a candidate is going to come out and say, but it was pretty obvious. Here's an PFT piece from the time:

Jets G.M. search keeps expanding

Posted by Mike Florio on January 10, 2013, 9:08 AM EST

As first, the size of the Jets’ G.M. search prompted some league insiders to say, essentially, “Jed Hughes must be getting paid by the hour. Or maybe by the interview.”

But Hughes, the veteran NFL headhunter hired by owner Woody Johnson to find a successor to Mike Tannenbaum, isn’t merely milking the billion-dollar bosom of a Band-Aid heir. Hughes is genuinely having trouble finding a good candidate to take the job.

The Jets wanted Dave Caldwell, who picked the Jaguars. Then the Jets wanted Tom Telesco, who bolted to San Diego. (See what I did there? Yeah, I know it was lame.)

When candidates who have options opt to go elsewhere, that’s a problem.

Manish Mehta of the New York Daily News updates the ever-expanding search. The current candidates are Dolphins assistant G.M. Brian Gaine, Chargers director of player personnel Jimmy Raye, Giants director of college scouting Marc Ross, 49ers director of player personnel Tom Gamble, Steelers director of football and business administration Omar Khan, Montreal Alouettes G.M. Jim Popp, Seahawks V.P. of football administration John Idzik, and Jets assistant G.M. Scott Cohen.

Former Browns and Eagles G.M. Tom Heckert previously canceled an interview, Ravens assistant G.M. Eric DeCosta resisted overtures from the Jets, former Bills, Panthers, and Colts G.M. Bill Polian wasn’t interested in the job (it’s not clear how interested the job was in him).

Mehta confirms that Gamble’s interview didn’t go well, prompting the one-time frontrunner to fall off the map completely.

Apart from referring to the decision to fire the G.M. and keep the head coach as “unconventional,” Mehta otherwise avoids the most obvious impediment to filling the job: the ongoing presence of Rex Ryan on the payroll.

Whatever the specific reason, the fact that Ryan remains the constant in a sea of turmoil isn’t making it any easier to find a new G.M. It could be Rex, it could be the circumstance, it could be a combination of those and other factors.

In the end, it could be that Johnson has no choice but to put Ryan in charge, with a G.M. who isn’t a supervisor of the coach but his toady.

[T0mShane]

Am I Mork or am I Mindy?

Orson.

[afosomf]

Continuity. Other than that you're right, but then of course there's the flip side. Not losing much, not gaining much either. To paraphrase Matty Sunshine, firing John Idzik didn't make the Jets better. Let's be realistic about this. There was never any possibility of a clearly-defined success here. He was stuck with a head coach, which defeats One Voice in and of itself, not to mention the fact that the coach is widely acknowledged to be a ******* goofball. Additionally in the two years (that was really less than two years due to the lateness of his hiring) he was GM, with the single exception of Teddy Bridgewater (which never would have flown, um, politically, and probably wouldn't have been enough, fast enough, practically), there were no gets at quarterback. I think that what he did during his tenure tacitly acknowledged that it's a whole different gig when you don't have and can't get a coach or a quarterback, and what accomplishments he was able to make in the context of the inevitable overall failure are generally going to accrue to the next guy. Replenishing depth isn't sexy. When Winters goes down and Aboushi replaces him, the mouthbreathers just see two guys who aren't very good. I see homegrown depth going next man up to a drafted starter. You know, that hallmark of good teams that was never the norm with the Jets and was never going to be unless the pendulum swung back hard from Tannenbaum's absurd pyramid scheme.

Ultimately of course I recognize, and always have, that Idzik has to go with the wash because of One Voice, which I've been saying is paramount since long before he even came around. It's just that the arguments being advanced as to why he was this clueless idiot are so unbelievably stupid that it has to give you pause. The personnel guy/contracts guy thing, for one. I mean, give me a break. Is it that hard to realize that all of the nuts and bolts work on this stuff takes place below the AGM level? Managers manage. The scouts haven't produced, and that's the problem, but even if Idzik knew going in that they sucked and that this is how much time he'd have, he still wouldn't have cleaned house. The marginal return would have been drowned out by the disruption.

I think at the end of the day Idzik represented one last shot at making it work with Rex, and frankly not a bad choice for that, assuming you think it was something worth doing in the first place.

Are you married to FlowTrain? just curious

[slats]

It's just that the arguments being advanced as to why he was this clueless idiot are so unbelievably stupid that it has to give you pause. The personnel guy/contracts guy thing, for one. I mean, give me a break. Is it that hard to realize that all of the nuts and bolts work on this stuff takes place below the AGM level? Managers manage. The scouts haven't produced, and that's the problem, but even if Idzik knew going in that they sucked and that this is how much time he'd have, he still wouldn't have cleaned house.

And yet, as apparently stupid as you believe those arguments to be, the two former GMs helping with the search for a new GM have put together a list of candidates that -so far as I have seen- does not include a single name from the math side of the building. Everyone of them is a personnel guy. A director of scouting. A draft guru. Go figure. Typical Jets stupidity, I guess.

It takes more than just a manager to manage something as specific as an NFL personnel department. You can't take the executive of the year from the business world and put him into a GM role and expect him to succeed. The scouting department puts together a couple thousand reports, they put them on some sort of order, but at the end of the day the GM makes the final call. The GM has to have the ability to make that call. The man in charge needs to've come up thru those ranks. He needs to understand the scouting process, and have an aptitude for it himself. He needs to be able to look at the reports and film in front of him, and shuffle the order based on his own abilities. A manager can't do that. A manager has to completely rely on his underlings. And if he has no experience in the scouting department himself, how is he even supposed to be able to recognize who's not a good scout working for him?

Idzik was doomed to failure because he wasn't qualified for the job in the first place.

[dbatesman]

/gets popcorn

[JiFtheOracle]

My support was never about Idzik himself, rather it was about what firing him was going to say about the organization as a whole. I thought it was important to make it look like Johnson had some level of conviction with these choices instead of giving the appearance that he lets Manish Mehta influence his decision-making. Running Idzik out of town at this point, imo, makes the organization look silly and wanton, but the assumed presence of Wolf and Casserly attenuates that a little bit. Without them, the future of the organization rests in the hands of Woody Johnson and Neil Glat and Akselrod, which means things were about to get a lot worse for a very long time. That still might be the case. I do like what Johnson said in his presser today, pointing out that firing both men was about trying to ensure a more collaborative environment here in the future. The hope is that Casserly and Wolf sit Woody down and explain to him how the GM position is supposed to work, because the way the organization handled Idzik+Rex was an abomination.

 

bwhahahahaha.  Okay

[thshadow]

Deep down I think Idzik simply was afraid of making a mistake. That comes from genetics not a lack of experience. Giving him more time to learn the job wasn't going to change that.  

 

I do suspect that was Idzik's problem.  It's not that he was careful - it's that he was scared.  In FA - he only offered contracts which would clearly be good for the Jets.  Hence no one signed here.  In the draft, he refused to trade any picks - and ended up with too many players, which didn't fit the team.

[joewilly12]

John Idzik was an IDIOT enough said time to move on guys. 

[JOJOTOWNSELL]

say what you want about Idzik....he came in and turned over the entire Jets roster and created a ton of cap space......very favorable situation for the next guy.....as a matter of fact, in 3 years some of you are going to be thanking him instead of the next GM to come in

[joewilly12]

say what you want about Idzik....he came in and turned over the entire Jets roster and created a ton of cap space......very favorable situation for the next guy.....as a matter of fact, in 3 years some of you are going to be thanking him instead of the next GM to come in

He barely won 4 games with that roster please Patterson was with 7 teams in 8 years he was signed to be a starting CB Idzik was an idiot! 

[slats]

I do suspect that was Idzik's problem.  It's not that he was careful - it's that he was scared.  In FA - he only offered contracts which would clearly be good for the Jets.  Hence no one signed here.  In the draft, he refused to trade any picks - and ended up with too many players, which didn't fit the team.

Yup. And to me, it comes down to not being qualified. Tannenbaum also wasn't qualified, and that manifested itself differently - he was perfectly willing to win every trade up, or overpay for free agents, because those were the few players he could be certain (as certain as one can be) that they're going to be good. Idzik was the opposite, unsure of his convictions, he wasn't able to complete a single draft day trade, and had trouble closing free agents. Always defaulting to saving money or draft picks rather than taking a chance.

We need a GM who better understands the value of players. Who knows what to offer in a trade or a free agent package, and knows when to back out. We've had the two opposites of that spectrum in the last two GMs. The root of that is an inherent ability to evaluate talent, rather than having to rely on Terry Bradway telling you that Shonn Greene is worth three or your remaining four draft picks.

[Cyberjet]

the GM job is more than knowing who to draft. It's a very complex varied job that essentially lays down the foundation and personality of how an operation is run behind the scenes and it's public persona. We soon forgot how the Jets were perceived as a circus not too long ago - that stopped with Idzik at least until billboards towels and planes entered the picture which was out of his control. He was a steady thoughtful no nonsense person - well repected by the football community. He may have been too conservative in some of his dealings but this was not a very good year for FAs and he was determined not to overpay. How did the Giants do with Cromartie? people get experience and they grow. Idzik was a good person and I suspect he woukld have grown into a very good GM particularly with Quinn as the Jets HC. But we will never know.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

And yet, as apparently stupid as you believe those arguments to be, the two former GMs helping with the search for a new GM have put together a list of candidates that -so far as I have seen- does not include a single name from the math side of the building. Everyone of them is a personnel guy. A director of scouting. A draft guru. Go figure. Typical Jets stupidity, I guess.

It takes more than just a manager to manage something as specific as an NFL personnel department. You can't take the executive of the year from the business world and put him into a GM role and expect him to succeed. The scouting department puts together a couple thousand reports, they put them on some sort of order, but at the end of the day the GM makes the final call. The GM has to have the ability to make that call. The man in charge needs to've come up thru those ranks. He needs to understand the scouting process, and have an aptitude for it himself. He needs to be able to look at the reports and film in front of him, and shuffle the order based on his own abilities. A manager can't do that. A manager has to completely rely on his underlings. And if he has no experience in the scouting department himself, how is he even supposed to be able to recognize who's not a good scout working for him?

Idzik was doomed to failure because he wasn't qualified for the job in the first place.

So what about Graves, then? He seems like a pretty solid guy for the job functions you're describing. Don't you think it's pretty likely that he effectively was that? I don't really see it being the case that Graves has one guy on top of the draft board but Idzik saw some other guy blow up a linebacker on tape once, you know? You'll say that even if that's true Idzik goes with Graves and as I've already made clear I don't disagree with that.