New wrinkle in Deflategate-Pats deflated punting balls as per Esiason

[Bugg]

As we await the decision, Boomer Esiason this AM let 2 remarkable things drop based on what he claimed were numerous conversations with NFL coaches and front office people who he declined to name.

 

1. Sean Payton got a year for not knowing about Bountygate. EVERYONE  is very upset that a total control freak like Bellicheat is being totally exonerated and not punished. If this was going on, how could Bellicheat or Ernie Adams not know? Defies belief. Also, is Brady not overjoyed about taking the fall for things he may have known about but wasn't really party to? But once you get on the Bellicheat rollercoaster there isn't an exit until he cuts you. 

 

2. Several coaches have told Esiason privately that when playing the Pats, punters have noticed that rather than getting the K ball they themselves prepped, suddenly they found themselves stuck using an underinflated ball.You only know it when you get the ball snapped to you, so there really is no way to complain.  Such a ball is going to go 15 or even 20 yards shorter than a fully-inflated K ball. Also, been known for years Pats play with the headsets of visiting teams forever; who knows if they are even listening? Over the course of a game, big difference in field position is gonna make a serious difference. 

 

Sounds like a lot of NFL people do not want this suspension shortened, and the nonsense in NE is pissing people off.Allowing one team to continually flout rules will do that.  Wonder if Goodell loses his nerve if some of these people go public. 

[JiFtheOracle]

Punts, FG's, fumbling, grip, drops....you name it.  It has an impact.  But hey, it's just deflating a ball, no big deal.

 

The Patriots have ruined the NFL and the NFL is doing nothing about it.  Nothing.

[sackdance]

The Patriots ability to not fumble over the past few seasons is unprecedented in football.  

 

Did their backs and WRs revolutionize ball carrying or have they been aided by underinflated balls, game in and game out for years.

 

 

This explains everything: 

 

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-prevention-of-fumbles-is-nearly-impossible

 

Now, how much do you want to bet their numbers fall back into line with the league by season's end.

 

Cheaters, pure and simple.

[AFCEastFan]

No surprise.  Sharp did a study of this already as well.  You can look it up -- since 2000, punters have a gross punting average of 25.1 yds against the Patriots, 44.7 yds against the rest of the league.  In that same time frame, Patriots punters have a gross average of 43.4. 

[EM31]

Cannot possibly be true since Belichick has never had any thoughts whatsoever on the subject of ball pressure before this whole thing blew up (sic) earlier this year.  We know this is true because Bill said it is true.

[ljr]

The Patriots ability to not fumble over the past few seasons is unprecedented in football.  

 

Did their backs and WRs revolutionize ball carrying or have they been aided by underinflated balls, game in and game out for years.

 

 

This explains everything: 

 

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-prevention-of-fumbles-is-nearly-impossible

 

Now, how much do you want to bet their numbers fall back into line with the league by season's end.

 

Cheaters, pure and simple.

2010-2014 reg season NE & their opp fumble stats rush & rec - data from ESPN

NE - 36 fumbles

Op - 72 fumbles

[AFCEastFan]

Cannot possibly be true since Belichick has never had any thoughts whatsoever on the subject of ball pressure before this whole thing blew up (sic) earlier this year.  We know this is true because Bill said it is true.

 

Yes, and we know that Belichick is so cozy with the league that they will do anything to protect him as the lovable, iconic, face of the NFL.  And that Brady thinks of Belichick like a father -- so he would gladly tarnish his own reputation and go down in flames on his own so long as it means keeping the heat off of Belichick.

[LouisvilleSlugger25]

This just in, Patriots cheat at everything. 

[BigRy56]

The Patriots are such an embarrassment to the league

[ljr]

Yes, and we know that Belichick is so cozy with the league that they will do anything to protect him as the lovable, iconic, face of the NFL.  And that Brady thinks of Belichick like a father -- so he would gladly tarnish his own reputation and go down in flames on his own so long as it means keeping the heat off of Belichick.

Lol ... Goodell did destroy the Spygate evidence ... That certainly was in BB's favor.

[Beerfish]

Yes, and we know that Belichick is so cozy with the league that they will do anything to protect him as the lovable, iconic, face of the NFL.  And that Brady thinks of Belichick like a father -- so he would gladly tarnish his own reputation and go down in flames on his own so long as it means keeping the heat off of Belichick.

Pretty naive, in this situation you circle the wagons and those that are caught red handed will eat it a bit for those that are not.

 

Brady was found out and implicated by the ball boys.  What is he going to do then say, yeah we cheated and Bill told us to? 

[jgb]

Dozens of minors cheats stack up to big advantage. Pats can't hide behind "but that one thing you caught us on didn't effect the game!" excuse.

[Klecko73isGod]

The sad part is that this is not even remotely shocking anymore. 

[Klecko73isGod]

No surprise.  Sharp did a study of this already as well.  You can look it up -- since 2000, punters have a gross punting average of 25.1 yds against the Patriots, 44.7 yds against the rest of the league.  In that same time frame, Patriots punters have a gross average of 43.4. 

 

Are you sure on those numbers? If that's right that's pretty stunning. 

[Bugg]

No surprise.  Sharp did a study of this already as well.  You can look it up -- since 2000, punters have a gross punting average of 25.1 yds against the Patriots, 44.7 yds against the rest of the league.  In that same time frame, Patriots punters have a gross average of 43.4. 

That field position advantage is not only huge, but defies logic. Thanks for posting it. 

[EM31]

Yes, and we know that Belichick is so cozy with the league that they will do anything to protect him as the lovable, iconic, face of the NFL.  And that Brady thinks of Belichick like a father -- so he would gladly tarnish his own reputation and go down in flames on his own so long as it means keeping the heat off of Belichick.

 

Just like a poker hand I found  I found myself involved in recently, it was never my plan from the outset to throw in that many chips on that particular hand.  One thing led to another and at the end of the day doubling down was a marginally better choice than cutting my losses to the chips I have already risked.

 

I think Brady would have chosen a different path if he knew it was going to go unfold thew way it did.  Once you are on the slippery slope it is well..... slippery.

[EM31]

That field position advantage is not only huge, but defies logic. Thanks for posting it. 

 

I think those numbers may have been made up.

 

The problem is that in the case of the Patriots, we are only 99% sure that they were made up.

[AFCEastFan]

Pretty naive, in this situation you circle the wagons and those that are caught red handed will eat it a bit for those that are not.

 

Brady was found out and implicated by the ball boys.  What is he going to do then say, yeah we cheated and Bill told us to? 

 

Naive?  No, I actually do have some inside information on this: Brady was absolutely livid about how Belichick handled the first press conference (not the Mona Lisa Vito one, the "ask Tom -- he knows everything about the balls").   And it's not like they were ever that close to begin with. 

 

Belichick violated the old "circle the wagons" code from the outset and the last thing Brady was going to do was protect him.  But I think that even though Belichick violated the code, he was 100% right and Brady's simply not going to throw BB under the bus with a blatant lie (like "BB knows everything that goes on with this team, including the balls, so if he doesn't know anything then I have nothing to add").  Not what the "BB is the omniscent Emperor Palpatine crowd" wants to hear, I know. 

[Klecko73isGod]

ask Tom -- he knows everything about the balls

 

Why do I get the feeling Belichick says that a lot? 

[AFCEastFan]

Why do I get the feeling Belichick says that a lot? 

 

haha -- i larfed.  rep given. 

[jgb]

No surprise.  Sharp did a study of this already as well.  You can look it up -- since 2000, punters have a gross punting average of 25.1 yds against the Patriots, 44.7 yds against the rest of the league.  In that same time frame, Patriots punters have a gross average of 43.4. 

 

WOW add this to ridiculously low fumble rates and how can anyone say no advantage was conferred. We are supposed to believe that pats players don't fumble because belichick is such a good coach and punters screw the pooch when playing pats because the pats are so intimidating? Come on.

[AFCEastFan]

I think those numbers may have been made up.

 

The problem is that in the case of the Patriots, we are only 99% sure that they were made up.

 

Perhaps, but if you eliminate all the Brooks Barnard punts for the Patriots (because, after all, he was a desperation pick-up that never should have been kicking in the NFL), all the Todd Sauerbrun kicks against the Patriots (because, after all, he was a known juicer that was enhancing the gross distance of his punts unnaturally) and all the dome punts (because, after all, the ball travels farther in a dome than outdoors), you will eventually get there. 

[Beerfish]

Naive?  No, I actually do have some inside information on this: Brady was absolutely livid about how Belichick handled the first press conference (not the Mona Lisa Vito one, the "ask Tom -- he knows everything about the balls").   And it's not like they were ever that close to begin with. 

 

Belichick violated the old "circle the wagons" code from the outset and the last thing Brady was going to do was protect him.  But I think that even though Belichick violated the code, he was 100% right and Brady's simply not going to throw BB under the bus with a blatant lie (like "BB knows everything that goes on with this team, including the balls, so if he doesn't know anything then I have nothing to add").  Not what the "BB is the omniscent Emperor Palpatine crowd" wants to hear, I know. 

Him being livid means nothing.  Is he ticked off at Belly?  sure, sooner or alter 3/4 of all pats players are.  Brady is no dummy, what purpose does it serve him to implicate any one else that does not need to be implicated?

 

None at all.  Brady wants to win super bowls and win football games, he is also seemingly loyal to kraft.  Now if this was a case where he would come out blameless if he turned on Belly fine but we all know that is not the case at all.  Things would only be worse for him if he implicated anyone else because he was in essence already caught red handed.  Thus my 'naive' comment to your previous post.

[CaliforniaJet]

the dynASSty* continues

[Charlie Brown]

The Patriots ability to not fumble over the past few seasons is unprecedented in football.  

 

Did their backs and WRs revolutionize ball carrying or have they been aided by underinflated balls, game in and game out for years.

 

 

This explains everything: 

 

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-prevention-of-fumbles-is-nearly-impossible

 

Now, how much do you want to bet their numbers fall back into line with the league by season's end.

 

Cheaters, pure and simple.

 

 

The Pats have hurt the NFL!!!

 

And all these cheating activities have definitely impacted how the players on the Pats have performed including the QB!!

[Charlie Brown]

Dozens of minors cheats stack up to big advantage. Pats can't hide behind "but that one thing you caught us on didn't effect the game!" excuse.

Why this is not clear is beyond me. 

 

In a sport that is frequently decided by a field goal, 3 points or less, cheating matters!!

 

Even if you use dead balls during crucial points of the game say on all those Brady comebacks, cheating matters!!

 

And the Pats have hurt the game, period!!

[Jet Fan RI]

As we await the decision, Boomer Esiason this AM let 2 remarkable things drop based on what he claimed were numerous conversations with NFL coaches and front office people who he declined to name.

 

1. Sean Payton got a year for not knowing about Bountygate. EVERYONE  is very upset that a total control freak like Bellicheat is being totally exonerated and not punished. If this was going on, how could Bellicheat or Ernie Adams not know? Defies belief. Also, is Brady not overjoyed about taking the fall for things he may have known about but wasn't really party to? But once you get on the Bellicheat rollercoaster there isn't an exit until he cuts you. 

 

2. Several coaches have told Esiason privately that when playing the Pats, punters have noticed that rather than getting the K ball they themselves prepped, suddenly they found themselves stuck using an underinflated ball.You only know it when you get the ball snapped to you, so there really is no way to complain.  Such a ball is going to go 15 or even 20 yards shorter than a fully-inflated K ball. Also, been known for years Pats play with the headsets of visiting teams forever; who knows if they are even listening? Over the course of a game, big difference in field position is gonna make a serious difference. 

 

Sounds like a lot of NFL people do not want this suspension shortened, and the nonsense in NE is pissing people off.Allowing one team to continually flout rules will do that.  Wonder if Goodell loses his nerve if some of these people go public. 

 

This is shocking. It is clear how the Pats had an opportunity to deflate their own balls in deflategate. But how in the world did they have an opportunity to deflate the other teams' K balls?

 

Makes me wonder if they still might have a way to deflate their own balls, even with the new rules.

[PFSIKH]

Punts, FG's, fumbling, grip, drops....you name it.  It has an impact.  But hey, it's just deflating a ball, no big deal.

 

The Patriots have ruined the NFL and the NFL is doing nothing about it.  Nothing.

 

Glad to see you finally coming around.

[jgb]

This is shocking. It is clear how the Pats had an opportunity to deflate their own balls in deflategate. But how in the world did they have an opportunity to deflate the other teams' K balls?

 

Makes me wonder if they still might have a way to deflate their own balls, even with the new rules.

 

halftime.  you will see brady QBR increase, fumbles decrease, and opposing punts shorten in 2nd half of pats games.

[Beerfish]

Punts, FG's, fumbling, grip, drops....you name it.  It has an impact.  But hey, it's just deflating a ball, no big deal.

 

The Patriots have ruined the NFL and the NFL is doing nothing about it.  Nothing.

The thing is that none of that matters at all in this situation.  Too many Pats defenders want to make it an argument about did it help and if so how much and thus down play that aspect.  The real question is the rules of the league were violated, end of story.

[Jet Fan RI]

halftime.  you will see brady QBR increase, fumbles decrease, and opposing punts shorten in 2nd half of pats games.

 

Sorry. Still don't get it. Are you saying someone goes out on the field with a pin at the half? Or someone picks up the other team's K-ball  bag and brings it inside? Should be on camera either way, I would think.

[Klecko73isGod]

This is shocking. It is clear how the Pats had an opportunity to deflate their own balls in deflategate. But how in the world did they have an opportunity to deflate the other teams' K balls?

 

Makes me wonder if they still might have a way to deflate their own balls, even with the new rules.

 

Are you serious?

 

An inflation needle is incredibly easy to hide. 

[Klecko73isGod]

Sorry. Still don't get it. Are you saying someone goes out on the field with a pin at the half? Or someone picks up the other team's K-ball  bag and brings it inside? Should be on camera either way, I would think.

 

Why would a ball boy carrying a football on the sideline be on camera?

[JiFtheOracle]

Glad to see you finally coming around.

 

Haha.   You're a good dude and I honesty feel bad for you.  It's not fair to the true fans to have to continue deal with the shadiness and overall lack of integrity of the organization.  Knowing that the validity of the teams success is directly in question after realizing that cheating is an institutional thing in Foxborough.  Especially knowing that your team has ultimately been the reason for the league becoming more and more of a joke with each passing year.  Not fair to the fans at all.  IMO

[Klecko73isGod]

The thing is that none of that matters at all in this situation.  Too many Pats defenders want to make it an argument about did it help and if so how much and thus down play that aspect.  The real question is the rules of the league were violated, end of story.

 

The outcome of the game argument is merely a red herring designed to distract from the real issue - intent. 

 

In the grand scheme of things it does not matter one bit whether the Pats gained any advantage because the Pats had no way of knowing what the outcome of any game would be when they made the decision to break the rules and un-level the playing field. 

 

It doesn't and shouldn't matter if the Pats gained anything from any of their rules violations. The Pats obviously saw a value in doing these things so if nothing else they gave the Pats a psychological advantage, a placebo effect of added confidence, if you will.