Any chance we can get Rex back?

[nyjunc]

Why punt? You're assuming the pass would've been incomplete? How can you do that?

I'm saying if Brick did his f'g job and blocked Ike taylor who blew right past him while Brick stood there picking his ass, the sack never happens.

If Rob Turner didn't snooze on 1st down the first sack wouldn't have happened for -7 yards. Remember Sanchez slowly getting up clenching his wrist?

To stay on point, this is about your "fine" OL that cost us the AFCC. 

it was 3rd and 17, is it fair to assume we would convert?

[UnitedWhofans]

it's nice but it's not an accomplishment.  we beat one winning team in that span and that team was in middle of losing 4 of 6.

5 games was nice but when facing a bad team for the 6th and a guaranteed playoff spot and you lose that's not good and talks away the good from the 5 game win streak.

in 1993 we won 5 games in a row but choked to end the season just like this year.  does anyone remember that 5 game streak?

my expectations coming in were for about 7-9 wins but expectations change quickly in this league.  we had 11-12 win talent against this weak sched in this weak year and we failed.

They shouldn't with this franchise. Not with it's history of letting people down

[jetrider]

it was 3rd and 17, is it fair to assume we would convert?

Not necessarily. But you can't assume we didn't convert or didn't get some of it or Pitt scored again before the half either.

Jets started the drive on their own 33 with 1:53 left in the half. What happened next was a complete OL disaster. 

Just stating the facts: the OL blew that series of downs; the strip-6 was the last time Pitt scored; that was the difference in the game. 

[Snell41]

it's nice but it's not an accomplishment.  we beat one winning team in that span and that team was in middle of losing 4 of 6.

5 games was nice but when facing a bad team for the 6th and a guaranteed playoff spot and you lose that's not good and talks away the good from the 5 game win streak.

in 1993 we won 5 games in a row but choked to end the season just like this year.  does anyone remember that 5 game streak?

my expectations coming in were for about 7-9 wins but expectations change quickly in this league.  we had 11-12 win talent against this weak sched in this weak year and we failed.

Bad team?  They were 8-8.  As for us, we had 11-12 win potential, assuming we played perfect all year long.  That's unrealistic.  I hardly remember the 93 season, not because I'm young lord knows I'm not.  I hardly remember because it was one of those seasons where we "middled" as a team.  Most of those seasons I really don't remember much because they're forgettable.  Just like this season will be.  I remember the really good and the really bad.  The only time I remember anything other than those is when there's something incredibly embarrassing going along with an otherwise middling season, like foot fetishes, porn sites for husband's wives, Tebow, foolish guarantees....

[ScarletKnight89]

we haven't had a player make the impact that Brandon Marshall made, he transformed our offense.

the OL in 2010 was not arguably the best in the league.  gave up more sacks per attempt than this group and the RBs averaged less YPC.  the OL may have been better but they were close and please let us not forget Wayne Hunter was starting late in the year and in the playoffs.

since 2010:

8-8

6-10

8-8

4-12

10-6

 

it's been a yo-yo

Sacks are an incredibly overrated statistic that prove very little in the long run. I'll give you an example.

Fitz's second pick against Buffalo was caused because Dareus destroyed Brick at the line of scrimmage and pushed him right into Fitz's face which caused him to get nothing on the ball, the pass was a wobbling duck that was easily picked off by Lawson. Now anyone can tell that Brick got manhandled on that play. But it's not going down as a sack.

Total QB pressures is a much better indicator of pass protection than a sack stat. A QB can see a rusher coming and throw the ball away on third down. Did that lineman do his job because the QB didn't get sacked? Of course not.

The 2010 Jets gave up 121 total pressures. That was the least amount given up in the entire league. They gave up 78 QB hurries, that was the least amount given up in the entire league as well.

The 2015 Jets gave up 201 pressures. Good for 9th worst in the league. They were 4th worst in QB hurries with 154.

Wayne Hunter stunk, but guess what. 2015 Brick stunk, Breno stinks, Winters stinks.... The O-Line is a mess and needs to be revamped. I trust Mac and Bowles realize this and will start to address it. But we'll see.

 

8-8, 6-10, 8-8 is a huge regression from where we were in 2010. You can make a case that the rebuilding process really began last year by clearing out all that cap room but the problem was that the GM was screwing over his HC like you said, which isn't ok. The players we were able to acquire this past off season were because of the cap room that was created as a result of that.

[nyjunc]

They shouldn't with this franchise. Not with it's history of letting people down

only 4 times in our history have we lost a win and in/lose and out game.

Not necessarily. But you can't assume we didn't convert or didn't get some of it or Pitt scored again before the half either.

Jets started the drive on their own 33 with 1:53 left in the half. What happened next was a complete OL disaster. 

Just stating the facts: the OL blew that series of downs; the strip-6 was the last time Pitt scored; that was the difference in the game. 

Pitt dominated us all first half offensively, I think it's safer to assume getting the ball near midfield w/ plenty of time that they would have kicked FG than it is to think we would have converted on 3rd and 17.

it was a poor decision to throw on 3rd and 17, run the ball, make Pitt use a TO and avoid disaster.

Bad team?  They were 8-8.  As for us, we had 11-12 win potential, assuming we played perfect all year long.  That's unrealistic.  I hardly remember the 93 season, not because I'm young lord knows I'm not.  I hardly remember because it was one of those seasons where we "middled" as a team.  Most of those seasons I really don't remember much because they're forgettable.  Just like this season will be.  I remember the really good and the really bad.  The only time I remember anything other than those is when there's something incredibly embarrassing going along with an otherwise middling season, like foot fetishes, porn sites for husband's wives, Tebow, foolish guarantees....

Buf had not been playing well and basically quit.

we didn't need to play perfect to win 11-12, we won many games imperfectly but there's no excuse for losing to Buf in week 17.

 

a forgetful season then wouldn't be a success, right?

Sacks are an incredibly overrated statistic that prove very little in the long run. I'll give you an example.

Fitz's second pick against Buffalo was caused because Dareus destroyed Brick at the line of scrimmage and pushed him right into Fitz's face which caused him to get nothing on the ball, the pass was a wobbling duck that was easily picked off by Lawson. Now anyone can tell that Brick got manhandled on that play. But it's not going down as a sack.

Total QB pressures is a much better indicator of pass protection than a sack stat. A QB can see a rusher coming and throw the ball away on third down. Did that lineman do his job because the QB didn't get sacked? Of course not.

The 2010 Jets gave up 121 total pressures. That was the least amount given up in the entire league. They gave up 78 QB hurries, that was the least amount given up in the entire league as well.

The 2015 Jets gave up 201 pressures. Good for 9th worst in the league. They were 4th worst in QB hurries with 154.

Wayne Hunter stunk, but guess what. 2015 Brick stunk, Breno stinks, Winters stinks.... The O-Line is a mess and needs to be revamped. I trust Mac and Bowles realize this and will start to address it. But we'll see.

 

8-8, 6-10, 8-8 is a huge regression from where we were in 2010. You can make a case that the rebuilding process really began last year by clearing out all that cap room but the problem was that the GM was screwing over his HC like you said, which isn't ok. The players we were able to acquire this past off season were because of the cap room that was created as a result of that.

I agree sacks are overrated but it gives us a gauge.  we ran it well and we kept the QB upright, what more can we expect of an OL?

I don't know or necessarily believe where you get your #s from b/c that can be a subjective stat but assuming they are correct.

121 pressures in 525 attempts is 1 every 4.3 dropbacks

201 in 604 attempts is 1 every 3

we also attempted 100 more on the ground in 2010, we were balanced. that affects pressure too when teams don't know if we are running or passing.

the 2 OLs were similar.

the OL is getting old and needs an infusion of young talent but it was more than good enough to win with this season.

we didn't have half the talent from 2011-2013 that we had in 2010.  that was the biggest difference.

[Snell41]

Buf had not been playing well and basically quit.

we didn't need to play perfect to win 11-12, we won many games imperfectly but there's no excuse for losing to Buf in week 17.

 

 

BUF quit?  Do we need to go back to Boobie what's his face saying it's their Super Bowl?  Rex was announced that he was coming back next year before that game.  Nobody quit that game at all.  Not in the least.  We lost the game.  We laid an egg for sure, but BUF didn't quit by any means.  We lost the game because BUF had the ball for 40 minutes, including a majority of the time we would have had the wind at our back.  They had the ball for 40 minutes because we couldn't get off the field on 3rd and 7-9 yards.  We couldn't get off the field because Revis was giving 10 yard cushions.  WHYYYYY Revis was giving 10 yard cushions seems to be a mystery (man vs. zone), but it was clear Bowles did not react to that, which is surprising because he has shown to adjust well throughout the season otherwise.  But you can't expect to win many NFL games against any team when the opponent has the ball 40 minutes of the game. 

[nyjunc]

BUF quit?  Do we need to go back to Boobie what's his face saying it's their Super Bowl?  Rex was announced that he was coming back next year before that game.  Nobody quit that game at all.  Not in the least.  We lost the game.  We laid an egg for sure, but BUF didn't quit by any means.  We lost the game because BUF had the ball for 40 minutes, including a majority of the time we would have had the wind at our back.  They had the ball for 40 minutes because we couldn't get off the field on 3rd and 7-9 yards.  We couldn't get off the field because Revis was giving 10 yard cushions.  WHYYYYY Revis was giving 10 yard cushions seems to be a mystery (man vs. zone), but it was clear Bowles did not react to that, which is surprising because he has shown to adjust well throughout the season otherwise.  But you can't expect to win many NFL games against any team when the opponent has the ball 40 minutes of the game. 

who cares what he was saying, they were going through the motions.  how many guys on D were whining about their stats? to Dixon it may have been a SB but did he even get a carry? we beat ourselves by not being prepared and coming out lifeless.

[Snell41]

who cares what he was saying, they were going through the motions.  how many guys on D were whining about their stats? to Dixon it may have been a SB but did he even get a carry? we beat ourselves by not being prepared and coming out lifeless.

Thy were not going through motions.  Yes, we were unprepared and lifeless.  Yes we did not play well.  But no, not for a second were they laying down for us.  Not even close. 

[nyjunc]

Thy were not going through motions.  Yes, we were unprepared and lifeless.  Yes we did not play well.  But no, not for a second were they laying down for us.  Not even close. 

if we came out and punched them in the mouth they would have curled up.  Instead we allowed the wind to affect us while it didn't affect them and we started slow and played catch up all game.  start strong and we win that game easily.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

We need Rex back

What next? Can Eric Mangini be our DC? Unbelievable that this appears to be a serious thread.

[ScarletKnight89]

 

 

The Offensive Lines were not similar. I can understand now that you aren't budging on that misconception so i'll just move on. I'm not saying it wasn't good enough to win, but that was because of scheme and design.

If Gailey just let Fitz drop back and sit in the pocket his sack numbers would have been very high. Gailey and Bowles realized that they could not let this happen.

I get my numbers from Pro Football Focus which is one of the best measurements of advanced player metrics out there today. There's a coaching section now where NFL Head Coaches and organizations go in and look at their ratings and numbers. More than half of the teams in the NFL are using it.

 

 

[nyjunc]

The Offensive Lines were not similar. I can understand now that you aren't budging on that misconception so i'll just move on. I'm not saying it wasn't good enough to win, but that was because of scheme and design.

If Gailey just let Fitz drop back and sit in the pocket his sack numbers would have been very high. Gailey and Bowles realized that they could not let this happen.

I get my numbers from Pro Football Focus which is one of the best measurements of advanced player metrics out there today. There's a coaching section now where NFL Head Coaches and organizations go in and look at their ratings and numbers. More than half of the teams in the NFL are using it.

 

 

Fitz is always better on the run, sometimes his movement creates pressure too.  I am not saying our OL was the Hogs but it was a good unit, as good as 2010 which was a bit overrated.

 

I am not a PFF guy, it can be useful but it's not gospel.  whether teams are using it or not doesn't tell me a lot, teams will use a million different ways to evaluate.  I guarantee no team is basing everything on those evaluations.

[Jet Nut]

The Offensive Lines were not similar. I can understand now that you aren't budging on that misconception so i'll just move on. I'm not saying it wasn't good enough to win, but that was because of scheme and design.

If Gailey just let Fitz drop back and sit in the pocket his sack numbers would have been very high. Gailey and Bowles realized that they could not let this happen.

I get my numbers from Pro Football Focus which is one of the best measurements of advanced player metrics out there today. There's a coaching section now where NFL Head Coaches and organizations go in and look at their ratings and numbers. More than half of the teams in the NFL are using it.

 

 

Of course they're not. 

Brick & Mangold were 5 years younger.

Woody, Moore and Slausson are better than the rest of the line today.

He says shlt like this to help make his Sanchez was easily better than Fitz argument.

That Sanchez had to carry the team on his back while he led them into and through opponents in the playoffs.  

[nyjunc]

Of course they're not. 

Brick & Mangold were 5 years younger.

Woody, Moore and Slausson are better than the rest of the line today.

He says shlt like this to help make his Sanchez was easily better than Fitz argument.

That Sanchez had to carry the team on his back while he led them into and through opponents in the playoffs.  

have never tried to claim mark carried the team but he was vital to our success.

the 2010 OL is incredibly overrated as was 2009 though 2009 was a legit top OL just not as great as people like to pretend. 

Brick and mangold were younger but Mangold was banged up and even missed most of the first Pats game where we won 28-14 w/o him. I think we were trailing 14-7 when he left. we also lost Woody late in the year, he came back for Indy game and was out again after that.  remember the day Mario Williams had against Hunter? remember the incredible comeback led by the QB? I am sure you don't.

this doesn't help your weak arguments on other subjects.  this is typical.  have nothing just attack the poster.

[Jet Nut]

have never tried to claim mark carried the team but he was vital to our success.

the 2010 OL is incredibly overrated as was 2009 though 2009 was a legit top OL just not as great as people like to pretend. 

Brick and mangold were younger but Mangold was banged up and even missed most of the first Pats game where we won 28-14 w/o him. I think we were trailing 14-7 when he left. we also lost Woody late in the year, he came back for Indy game and was out again after that.  remember the day Mario Williams had against Hunter? remember the incredible comeback led by the QB? I am sure you don't.

this doesn't help your weak arguments on other subjects.  this is typical.  have nothing just attack the poster.

Yup, we were overrated.

And you never credit Sanchez for that team getting to the playoffs and winning in the playoffs. 

Yup. making this all up.  A heads up, you've never come close to winning an argument with me in regards to Sanchez, the Jets, HCs, QBs etc. 

You are pretty much one of the most clueless fans here.  Unfortunately you just keep going on and on and on making one more clueless comment after another.

Better hurry up to the Sanchez was better in 2014 than Eli comments.  

 

[nyjunc]

Yup, we were overrated.

And you never credit Sanchez for that team getting to the playoffs and winning in the playoffs. 

Yup. making this all up.

 

you struggle w/ reading.  I have NEVER said he carried us, I have ALWAYS said the D was the primary reason we made it but when you have nothing you need to make stuff up.  that's all you do.

[Jet Nut]

you struggle w/ reading.  I have NEVER said he carried us, I have ALWAYS said the D was the primary reason we made it but when you have nothing you need to make stuff up.  that's all you do.

Total nonsense.  

[nyjunc]

Total nonsense.  

of course it is b/c you make things up to deflect from getting whipped in these debates.  show me one post, just one, where I said mark carried or that mark was THE main reason we made either title game run.  Just one.  good luck with that.

[Integrity28]

A pro-Rex thread started by drdetroit, featuring a Sanchez "debate" by Jet Nut and nyjunc might be the message board equivalent of a frontal lobotomy. 

If I had gotten here sooner, I'd have set up betting lines on when nyjunc would drop the following:

• you can't read, aka "struggle with reading comprehension"
• "show me where I said", ironically paired with "all you do is deflect" 
• "you're attacking the poster", ironically paired with comments about the person he's speaking to
• a declaration of debate victory based on some tangental "got this right" he found after 4+ pages of spinning in circles

[Snell41]

A pro-Rex thread started by drdetroit, featuring a Sanchez "debate" by Jet Nut and nyjunc might be the message board equivalent of a frontal lobotomy. 

If I had gotten here sooner, I'd have set up betting lines on when nyjunc would drop the following:

• you can't read, aka "struggle with reading comprehension"
• "show me where I said", ironically paired with "all you do is deflect" 
• "you're attacking the poster", ironically paired with comments about the person he's speaking to
• a declaration of debate victory based on some tangental "got this right" he found after 4+ pages of spinning in circles

Victory is yours, sir.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bostonmajet]

This thread is like a train wreck; I try to avoid it, and fail; sometimes I even post, and then feel weak afterwards...

[jetrider]

Pitt dominated us all first half offensively, I think it's safer to assume getting the ball near midfield w/ plenty of time that they would have kicked FG than it is to think we would have converted on 3rd and 17.

it was a poor decision to throw on 3rd and 17, run the ball, make Pitt use a TO and avoid disaster.

No way. I disagree. Then everyone would cry that we were spineless and laid down. We had zero points. It was imperative that we score something before the half.

Throwing deep was as good as a punt if intercepted. Throwing downfield gave us a chance to make a play or get a PI call. We had to fight back and try to shift momentum.

You do know you get 3 timeouts per half, right? Who cares if Pitt uses a TO?

And nothing changes the fact the the OL f'cked up beginning 1:53 in the half.

 

[nyjunc]

No way. I disagree. Then everyone would cry that we were spineless and laid down. We had zero points. It was imperative that we score something before the half.

Throwing deep was as good as a punt if intercepted. Throwing downfield gave us a chance to make a play or get a PI call. We had to fight back and try to shift momentum.

You do know you get 3 timeouts per half, right? Who cares if Pitt uses a TO?

 

3rd and 17 deep I our territory is a tough spot, we were begging for a turnover there.

my point about the TO was that if we run it we force Pitt to use their last TO making a scoring drive more difficult.  there was 1:23 when we snapped the ball on 3rd and 17 and Pitt had 1 TO.  they would have had to call it and then we punt and there are somewhere around their 40 w/ no TOs.  they still have a good chance to score but it's more difficult w/o that TO.

[jetrider]

Our Ol was fine, every bit as good as 2010.

 

I am not saying our OL was the Hogs but it was a good unit, as good as 2010 which was a bit overrated.

 

the 2010 OL is incredibly overrated as was 2009 though 2009 was a legit top OL just not as great as people like to pretend. 

LOL ... !!!

[nyjunc]

 

 

LOL ... !!!

ok.  our Ol was the bestest in 2010!  we sucked this year, it was the greatness of fitz that carried us to such heights

[jetrider]

3rd and 17 deep I our territory is a tough spot, we were begging for a turnover there.

my point about the TO was that if we run it we force Pitt to use their last TO making a scoring drive more difficult.  there was 1:23 when we snapped the ball on 3rd and 17 and Pitt had 1 TO.  they would have had to call it and then we punt and there are somewhere around their 40 w/ no TOs.  they still have a good chance to score but it's more difficult w/o that TO.

Pitt would've had well under a minute with no TOs and a 17-0 lead.

You're suggesting they would've seen that as an opportunity to add to their lead yet you recommend that we play pussy and run on 3rd & 17 just to punt and give them that useful opportunity?

Why would the team with the lead try to use those few seconds but the team that desperately needs points shouldn't?

It's bassackwards logic, don't you think? That's why we tried to keep the drive going and threw on 3rd & 17.

 

[nyjunc]

Pitt would've had well under a minute with no TOs and a 17-0 lead.

You're suggesting they would've seen that as an opportunity to add to their lead yet you recommend that we play pussy and run on 3rd & 17 just to punt and give them that useful opportunity?

Why would the team with the lead try to use those few seconds but the team that desperately needs points shouldn't?

It's bassackwards logic, don't you think? That's why we tried to keep the drive going and threw on 3rd & 17.

 

the idea there is to avoid disaster, by going for it on 3rd and 17 we gave them a TD.  if we were near midfield or across midfield it's a different story but deep in our end there was no benefit to going for it. 

[jetrider]

the idea there is to avoid disaster, by going for it on 3rd and 17 we gave them a TD.  if we were near midfield or across midfield it's a different story but deep in our end there was no benefit to going for it. 

Bah. Hindsight is 20/20.

The correct idea was "Hey, this is the AFC f'kg C. Everybody do your job let's get on the board."

[nyjunc]

Bah. Hindsight is 20/20.

The correct idea was "Hey, this is the AFC f'kg C. Everybody do your job let's get on the board."

I agree hindsight is 20/20 but I was saying it from my seat at Heinz Field at the time.

we got ambushed that 1st half, we should have tried to keep the deficit around 20 and get into the half.  that game is the toughest loss for me b/c I feel that was our best shot at the SB.  I really believe we were the better team.

[Jolot]

What next? Can Eric Mangini be our DC? Unbelievable that this appears to be a serious thread.

it's not...at least not for us sane people 

[drdetroit]

What next? Can Eric Mangini be our DC? Unbelievable that this appears to be a serious thread.

he's about to fail into his next head coach gig in Miami

[bealeb319]

Rex probably spent the entire season game planning specifically to play the Jets out of spite. it would explain why his record sucked with a good team.

[ScarletKnight89]

 

 

 

[ScarletKnight89]

Of course they're not. 

Brick & Mangold were 5 years younger.

Woody, Moore and Slausson are better than the rest of the line today.

He says shlt like this to help make his Sanchez was easily better than Fitz argument.

That Sanchez had to carry the team on his back while he led them into and through opponents in the playoffs.  

Yeah, I'm giving up trying to convince him on the obvious talent gap between the two lines. 2010 was far superior. It's very obvious.

Supporting a defense of Sanchez at this point is worthless. The guy left the Jets and went to another team with an offensive friendly system and was still beat out for the starting job and spent 2 years as a backup QB. Sanchez continued to prove what most Jets fans realized a while ago. He's a below average QB.