Geno Smith '10 Times' as Motivated for Next Year

[slats]

iignored the rest, eh? Tool.

Sorry, this deserves more. You're an idiot, but I'll play...

Let's avoid personal attacks. If you don't agree with a post, state your case against the post without the name calling. 

Thanks. 

[aec4]

The CFL team that signs Geno will be excited he's 10x motivated 

[JetBlue]

They would not have won 10 games without him, and there is blame for ALL in the Bills game. Like the defense letting the Bills keep the ball 40 minutes.  

How do you know this?  Didn't the team win 8 games in Smiths rookie season?  Is it so hard to conceive that the team could have won two more with one of the easiest schedules in the league?  

[Villain The Foe]

Too easy

 

LOL.

 

What do you mean I cant disregard the Flight Crew instructions...

 

Thanks for grabbing me this sweater and not letting me go home and sulk in the corner, ma!

I dont recall Geno getting into any trouble with the league over these things. He wasnt suspended, he wasnt dropped from the team (IK) or anything. 

 

This example right here is why I stated in the "Josh Gordon" thread that though he's a great talent that it wouldnt be a good idea to even try to get him, because no one can ever overcome their past with a good percentage of Jets fans. 

 

Geno could have a similar regular season like he had this season (no problems/issues) for years. Let Geno have an incident at an airport or with paparazzi and you'll see stuff like this above. Josh Gordon could be hear for a couple years, have an incident and then these type of comments begin to circulate. 

Im looking at this example of mine play out right now with Sheldon Richardson. 

 

The incidents that Geno has been in has not warranted the level of criticism that I've seen thrown his way. Furthermore, he can now never overcome that in the eyes of critics. 

[Sperm Edwards]

This is a lot of words to say it all kinda comes down to how they feel about Petty. 

If they like how the Petty project is going, but they'd still like to keep him off the field next year, the status quo makes a lot of sense. As it is, the Jets have more needs/wants than they do draft picks and cap room. No reason to add QB to the list if they don't have to. Even keeping Geno as a number three for his contract is pretty cheap insurance. No real need to replace him even if Petty is penciled in as the #2. A veteran would cost more than Geno, and a rookie obviously doesn't bring much to the table - especially in this scenario where that Okies would be a late round pick. 

Now, if they're souring on Petty and opt to take a QB in the first or second round next year, Geno is in serious trouble and likely out. Conversely, if for some reason they can't work out a deal with Fitz, it would make no sense at all to let Geno go. Barring a blockbuster deal for a different QB (veteran or high #1 pick), Geno would be back to competing for the staring job. 

You used even more words to say what he already said  (not that I'm at all unsympathetic to such an endeavor).

[Sperm Edwards]

In the scenario where the Jets want to take a QB in the first round, they still need to hold onto Geno until after the draft - and really probably all thru training camp as a fourth arm. The only way they should move Geno before the draft is if they sign a veteran to replace him - which is also dumb. 

He might have more trade value after the draft. Before the draft, how many teams would rather have Geno instead of the QB prospect with the clean slate they could draft themselves? If you can find someone who feels that way, and is willing to cough up a 4th round pick, take the deal before that GM's LSD wears off.

Since most think that's unlikely, the other time is after the draft. After the draft at least we could potentially find a trade partner that didn't get the backup or future starter they wanted, and would have some interest in Geno. Or also, if Maccagnan didn't get anyone in March, because he viewed the draft prospects as better than someone else's castoff, but didn't end up taking one in the draft and we still only have the same 3 as 2015. Say in the draft the "value" QB pick kept getting snatched before our turn, and Mac didn't want to reach by 30-50 picks when we already have our starter in place (which would further serve to lower what we get in return for Geno; that we're willing to reach so hard to replace him).

[JetBlue]

He might have more trade value after the draft. Before the draft, how many teams would rather have Geno instead of the QB prospect with the clean slate they could draft themselves? If you can find someone who feels that way, and is willing to cough up a 4th round pick, take the deal before that GM's LSD wears off.

Since most think that's unlikely, the other time is after the draft. After the draft at least we could potentially find a trade partner that didn't get the backup or future starter they wanted, and would have some interest in Geno. Or also, if Maccagnan didn't get anyone in March, because he viewed the draft prospects as better than someone else's castoff, but didn't end up taking one in the draft and we still only have the same 3 as 2015. Say in the draft the "value" QB pick kept getting snatched before our turn, and Mac didn't want to reach by 30-50 picks when we already have our starter in place (which would further serve to lower what we get in return for Geno; that we're willing to reach so hard to replace him).

Stop it; you are making way too much sense.  

[Jetsfan80]

How do you know this?  Didn't the team win 8 games in Smiths rookie season? 

This is the most overused argument in favor of Geno Smith.  The Jets were outscored by 97 points that season, and Geno was the 40th ranked QB in the NFL by DVOA.  That's right, 40th.  Meaning he was not only the worst starter in the NFL, he was also worse than several backups.  And that metric does as well as possible to account for the relative lack of talent around Geno compared to the rest of the league (meaning having Brandon Marshall would not have magically made Geno into an average QB).  The Jets SHOULD have won about 5 games that season based on all of this information.  Their reasons for winning 8 have little to do with Geno, but rather some pretty lucky circumstances, such as the following:

* Week 1:  The Lavonte David penalty that led to the Jets beating the Bucs on a 48-yard field goal, 18-17.  Geno was knocked out of bounds at the Bucs 45 (not in FG range) with 15 seconds left.  The penalty, by a well-respected linebacker no less, directly gave the Jets the chance to win. 

* Week 7:  In an OT game against the Patriots, the Jets were handed another gift when a missed 56 yard attempt by Folk was called back on a roughing the kicker penalty.  Folk knocked through the 42-yarder for a 30-27 win, instead of Brady getting another shot to win the game from good starting field position. 

* Easy schedule:  The Jets had the 20th-ranked schedule that season when all was said and done.  They were lucky to get to face the injury-riddled Falcons, Drew Brees in a home, outdoor, cold weather environment (where he is at his worst), the west coast Raiders at MetLife for a 1 PM start, and a Browns team that had nothing to play for in Week 15.  For all that people say about the Jets having a weak 2015 schedule, the 2013 Jets had a an equally weak one.  Nevertheless, they were completely non-competitive in 6 of those contests, including a 40-point loss to Cincinnati, 25-point loss to Tennessee, 23-point loss to Buffalo, and a 20-point loss at home against Miami.  The Jets only suffered one double-digit loss in 2015, @ Oakland, and Fitz wasn't even under center after getting hurt on the opening drive, and then getting rushed onto the field much later.  He can hardly be blamed in that contest. 

 

Meanwhile, in 2015, Ryan Fitzpatrick was the 14th-ranked QB by DVOA, and played a big role for a Jets team that not only won 10 games, but also outscored opponents by 73 points!  That makes their 10-6 record completely legit.  It also is such a vast difference from the 2013 Jets (separated by 170 net points) that there can be no resemblance to the 2 squads even if they were separated by 2 wins.  Bill Parcells may have said "You are what your record says you are", but in this case, he is wrong:  The 2013 Jets' 8-8 record was entirely deceptive.  The Jets went 4-12 in 2014, which is a lot closer to what they SHOULD have done in 2013.  That 2014 season further proved what a fluke that previous season's 8-8 record was, as the team wasn't significantly different in terms of coaching or personnel. 

To conclude, we can be 99+% certain Geno Smith would NOT have won 10 games with this squad (barring even more incredibly lucky circumstances than he was on the receiving end of in 2013).  He was a huge reason why the Jets went 4-12 the previous season, and no one could possibly argue that the 2015 roster gained 6 wins purely by adding Brandon Marshall and a revamped secondary.  Fitzpatrick absolutely factors into that equation in a big way, and the numbers back that up.  Even when accounting for the talent around him, Fitzpatrick was a top 15 QB.  In the same analysis, where the talent around him is equally factored in, Geno grades out as one of the game's worst QB's. 

My best, educated guess is this team would have gone 6-10 with Geno under center, with 7-9 being our ceiling.  Fitzpatrick's play absolutely accounts for a 3 or 4-game difference above Geno, as Fitz was 1 or 2 games better than even your average QB, and whether you like it or not, the QB is the # 1 driver of a team's overall success, no matter how many times people want to blame anyone other than Geno for his failures. Geno is far from average.  He's a bottom 5 QB.  And that would have shown up in the final analysis of the 2015 Jets with Geno under center.  It's not conjecture or guesses.  It's science.

[Villain The Foe]

How do you know this?  Didn't the team win 8 games in Smiths rookie season? 

And the answer to your question is, yes he did. lol. 

Reading someone say how Smith's offense was outscored by 97 points yet won 8 games (overachieved) is like saying how Fitz had all these weapons, broke all kinds of records yet only won 2 more games and failed to make the playoffs (underachieved). 

 

[Jet Nut]

 

* Easy schedule:  The Jets had the 20th-ranked schedule that season when all was said and done.  They were lucky to get to face the injury-riddled Falcons, Drew Brees in a home, outdoor, cold weather environment (where he is at his worst), the west coast Raiders at MetLife for a 1 PM start, and a Browns team that had nothing to play for in Week 15.  For all that people say about the Jets having a weak 2015 schedule, the 2013 Jets had a an equally weak one.  Nevertheless, they were completely non-competitive in 6 of those contests, including a 40-point loss to Cincinnati, 25-point loss to Tennessee, 23-point loss to Buffalo, and a 20-point loss at home against Miami.  The Jets only suffered one double-digit loss in 2015, @ Oakland, and Fitz wasn't even under center after getting hurt on the opening drive, and then getting rushed onto the field much later.  He can hardly be blamed in that contest. 

Which is the argument too many have used to discredit what Fitz accomplished.  I don't buy it today so cant use the same with Geno.

 

[Jetsfan80]

Which is the argument too many have used to discredit what Fitz accomplished.  I don't buy it today so cant use the same with Geno.

 

It just depends on what kind of predictive value it has.  The reason people are using it with Fitz is to suggest he's due for a bad season next year.  I don't think it holds water because Fitz has done well against varying schedules each of the last 3 years, and he did perform well against the Patriots in each of the contests against them. 

Geno did poorly against a weak schedule in 2013, and the team lucked its way into 8 wins.  The following year the schedule got a little tougher and that "flukey" nature was exposed with a 4-12 season. 

So either it matters, which means Geno sucks even more than we thought, while Fitz is due to have a slightly weaker season next year, or it doesn't matter at all, and the argument is moot.  No matter which way you look at it, Fitz comes out looking pretty good, and Geno not so much.

[Jet Nut]

It just depends on what kind of predictive value it has.  The reason people are using it with Fitz is to suggest he's due for a bad season next year.  I don't think it holds water because Fitz has done well against varying schedules each of the last 3 years, and he did perform well against the Patriots in each of the contests against them. 

Geno did poorly against a weak schedule in 2013, and the team lucked its way into 8 wins.  The following year the schedule got a little tougher and that "flukey" nature was exposed with a 4-12 season. 

So either it matters, which means Geno sucks even more than we thought, while Fitz is due to have a slightly weaker season next year, or it doesn't matter at all, and the argument is moot.  No matter which way you look at it, Fitz comes out looking pretty good, and Geno not so much.

I think they're using it as ammo to not sign him or to sign someone else.  i dont think it hold water anyway you look at it.  

That he had success against who he did doesnt predict what he would have done it those teams had better records.  Just like the talk that he had success because of bad defenses means little.  The two worst games he played all season were against the Bills.  They werent a winning team.  And they were one of the worst defensive teams we played.

[JetBlue]

This is the most overused argument in favor of Geno Smith.  The Jets were outscored by 97 points that season, and Geno was the 40th ranked QB in the NFL by DVOA.  That's right, 40th.  Meaning he was not only the worst starter in the NFL, he was also worse than several backups.  And that metric does as well as possible to account for the relative lack of talent around Geno compared to the rest of the league (meaning having Brandon Marshall would not have magically made Geno into an average QB).  The Jets SHOULD have won about 5 games that season based on all of this information.  Their reasons for winning 8 have little to do with Geno, but rather some pretty lucky circumstances, such as the following:

* Week 1:  The Lavonte David penalty that led to the Jets beating the Bucs on a 48-yard field goal, 18-17.  Geno was knocked out of bounds at the Bucs 45 (not in FG range) with 15 seconds left.  The penalty, by a well-respected linebacker no less, directly gave the Jets the chance to win. 

* Week 7:  In an OT game against the Patriots, the Jets were handed another gift when a missed 56 yard attempt by Folk was called back on a roughing the kicker penalty.  Folk knocked through the 42-yarder for a 30-27 win, instead of Brady getting another shot to win the game from good starting field position. 

* Easy schedule:  The Jets had the 20th-ranked schedule that season when all was said and done.  They were lucky to get to face the injury-riddled Falcons, Drew Brees in a home, outdoor, cold weather environment (where he is at his worst), the west coast Raiders at MetLife for a 1 PM start, and a Browns team that had nothing to play for in Week 15.  For all that people say about the Jets having a weak 2015 schedule, the 2013 Jets had a an equally weak one.  Nevertheless, they were completely non-competitive in 6 of those contests, including a 40-point loss to Cincinnati, 25-point loss to Tennessee, 23-point loss to Buffalo, and a 20-point loss at home against Miami.  The Jets only suffered one double-digit loss in 2015, @ Oakland, and Fitz wasn't even under center after getting hurt on the opening drive, and then getting rushed onto the field much later.  He can hardly be blamed in that contest. 

 

Meanwhile, in 2015, Ryan Fitzpatrick was the 14th-ranked QB by DVOA, and played a big role for a Jets team that not only won 10 games, but also outscored opponents by 73 points!  That makes their 10-6 record completely legit.  It also is such a vast difference from the 2013 Jets (separated by 170 net points) that there can be no resemblance to the 2 squads even if they were separated by 2 wins.  Bill Parcells may have said "You are what your record says you are", but in this case, he is wrong:  The 2013 Jets' 8-8 record was entirely deceptive.  The Jets went 4-12 in 2014, which is a lot closer to what they SHOULD have done in 2013.  That 2014 season further proved what a fluke that previous season's 8-8 record was, as the team wasn't significantly different in terms of coaching or personnel. 

To conclude, we can be 99+% certain Geno Smith would NOT have won 10 games with this squad (barring even more incredibly lucky circumstances than he was on the receiving end of in 2013).  He was a huge reason why the Jets went 4-12 the previous season, and no one could possibly argue that the 2015 roster gained 6 wins purely by adding Brandon Marshall and a revamped secondary.  Fitzpatrick absolutely factors into that equation in a big way, and the numbers back that up.  Even when accounting for the talent around him, Fitzpatrick was a top 15 QB.  In the same analysis, where the talent around him is equally factored in, Geno grades out as one of the game's worst QB's. 

My best, educated guess is this team would have gone 6-10 with Geno under center, with 7-9 being our ceiling.  Fitzpatrick's play absolutely accounts for a 3 or 4-game difference above Geno, as Fitz was 1 or 2 games better than even your average QB, and whether you like it or not, the QB is the # 1 driver of a team's overall success, no matter how many times people want to blame anyone other than Geno for his failures. Geno is far from average.  He's a bottom 5 QB.  And that would have shown up in the final analysis of the 2015 Jets with Geno under center.  It's not conjecture or guesses.  It's science.

After all that, the answer to my question is YES HE WON 8 GAMES.  You can spin it any way you want, the fact remains that the team won 8 games with Geno as a rookie and Fitz never won more than 6 in HIS ENTIRE CAREER, until this year.  THOSE ARE THE FACTS.  The idea in his third year, that playing with much improved offense, including two pro bowl caliber wide receivers, a much better OC and a solid defense, could not win at least 8 games, against one of the weaker schedules speaks to an agenda to discredit him no matter what.  I am not going to play the "what if' game because it is an exercise in futility.  I don't know how he would have done and neither do you.  The only FACT we can both point to, is the team won 8 games in his rookie year.  

[JetBlue]

Which is the argument too many have used to discredit what Fitz accomplished.  I don't buy it today so cant use the same with Geno.

 

And the answer to your question is, yes he did. lol. 

Reading someone say how Smith's offense was outscored by 97 points yet won 8 games (overachieved) is like saying how Fitz had all these weapons, broke all kinds of records yet only won 2 more games and failed to make the playoffs (underachieved). 

 

It is amazing the lengths that some will go to further their argument...  They can't even acknowledge reality with out having to put a spin on it. 

[Jetsfan80]

After all that, the answer to my question is YES HE WON 8 GAMES.  You can spin it any way you want, the fact remains that the team won 8 games with Geno as a rookie and Fitz never won more than 6 in HIS ENTIRE CAREER, until this year.  THOSE ARE THE FACTS.  The idea in his third year, that playing with much improved offense, including two pro bowl caliber wide receivers, a much better OC and a solid defense, could not win at least 8 games, against one of the weaker schedules speaks to an agenda to discredit him no matter what.  I am not going to play the "what if' game because it is an exercise in futility.  I don't know how he would have done and neither do you.  The only FACT we can both point to, is the team won 8 games in his rookie year.  

This is the equivalent of covering your ears and yelling "la la la". If all you see as the difference between the Geno-led Jets in 2013 and the Fitz-led 2015 squad is 2 wins, then Surely you can explain why Geno only won 4 the following year with basically the same squad as he had the prior year.  Fitz has won 10 games as a Jet, which is just 2 less than Geno won in 2 seasons.

The only one using "spin" is you on this one, with an incredibly simplistic view at that. The "Fitz isn't a winner" viewpoint was stupid from the start, but it somehow continues to live on through these silly arguments.

[Jetsfan80]

It is amazing the lengths that some will go to further their argument...  They can't even acknowledge reality with out having to put a spin on it. 

Reality? Your version of reality has no bearing on what actually happened. I laid it out very clearly for you, with facts, game breakdowns and numbers to back it up. That's reality. But you choose to reject it. Oh well.

[Jetsfan80]

In any case, I'm cool with going back to the "wins are all that matter" argument. Because as Jets, Geno is 12-20, and Fitz is 10-5. Sounds simple enough to me.

And if you'd like to make some excuses for that discrepancy, I'll also play your game and just chalk it up to you trying to peddle "spin" to fit YOUR agenda like you accuse me of doing. Fair enough? Cool. Sorry more people don't care much that your boy is super motivated.

 

[Jet Nut]

In any case, I'm cool with going back to the "wins are all that matter" argument. Because as Jets, Geno is 12-20, and Fitz is 10-5. Sounds simple enough to me.

And if you'd like to make some excuses for that discrepancy, I'll also play your game and just chalk it up to trying to peddle "spin" to fit YOUR agenda like you accuse me of doing. Fair enough? Cool. Sorry more people don't care much that your boy is super motivated.

 

I get it, agree.  But that cant be Genos record.

[Powpow]

Talk about beating a dead horse.

[Smashmouth]

Let the hate begin? 

nobody hates Geno he's too much of an idiot to hate . We just all know that he sucks, someday he will figure it out as well

[Smashmouth]

It is amazing the lengths that some will go to further their argument...  They can't even acknowledge reality with out having to put a spin on it. 

I spin nothing ...my take ? Geno Sucks and he has done nothing to prove otherwise.

[Powpow]

I spin nothing ...my take ? Geno Sucks and he has done nothing to prove otherwise.

HULK SMASH Geno!

 

[Smashmouth]

Going into the season with Fitz, Petty, and a mid round rookie puts the whole season in Fitzpatrick's hands, and unless Petty really is that lightening in a bottle, the season is over if Fitz gets hurt. And then they're sitting at the top of the 2017 draft with two young QBs on the roster. 

Taking emotion out of the equation, Geno is a better insurance policy than Petty or a mid round rookie. 

you don't know that, none of us do ...but if Fitz gets hurt next year then I would much rather see Petty than Geno / Lots of QB's get hurt during the season it usually means trouble unless you have the lightening most of the time there is no lightening.

[Villain The Foe]

nobody hates Geno he's too much of an idiot to hate . We just all know that he sucks, someday he will figure it out as well

He does suck, but when it comes to the "nobody hates Geno", speak for yourself. 

And when a Jets player says he's really motivated to get better for next year and that is met with the same level of discouragement that we've all seen prior to the statement being made, then it is what it is. 

I want to replace him as a starter, just not with the starter we currently have because though that starter is better he's not good enough to accomplish what we need to accomplish. But I wouldnt hate on a man who acknowledges his faults and has the motivation to get better.

I think Fitz sucks, but I dont hate the man. I think he has great qualities that could rub off on younger guys which could help inspire and instill that motivation that is required to get over the hurdle. 

When I see people who can differentiate the fact that he sucks along with their personal feelings in order to appreciate that the man is trying to put a foot forward then the only thing that I can conclude is that there's hate in the blood. 

If thats not you then great, but lets not pretend like no one hates Geno. Thats bullcrap and you knew it as you were writing it. 

 

[Powpow]

you don't know that, none of us do ...but if Fitz gets hurt next year then I would much rather see Petty than Geno / Lots of QB's get hurt during the season it usually means trouble unless you have the lightening most of the time there is no lightening.

fret not...Geno will be his-tor-y

[Smashmouth]

He does suck, but when it comes to the "nobody hates Geno", speak for yourself. 

And when a Jets player says he's really motivated to get better for next year and that is met with the same level of discouragement that we've all seen prior to the statement being made, then it is what it is. 

I want to replace him as a starter, just not with the starter we currently have because though that starter is better he's not good enough to accomplish what we need to accomplish. But I wouldnt hate on a man who acknowledges his faults and has the motivation to get better.

I think Fitz sucks, but I dont hate the man. I think he has great qualities that could rub off on younger guys which could help inspire and instill that motivation that is required to get over the hurdle. 

When I see people who can differentiate the fact that he sucks along with their personal feelings in order to appreciate that the man is trying to put a foot forward then the only thing that I can conclude is that there's hate in the blood. 

If thats not you then great, but lets not pretend like no one hates Geno. Thats bullcrap and you knew it as you were writing it. 

 

villain if throwing 31 TD's sucks then Im not sure what you think your going to get in a QB Im really not sure at all other than your going to be very disappointed for a very long time

[Jetsfan80]

villain if throwing 31 TD's sucks then Im not sure what you think your going to get in a QB Im really not sure at all other than your going to be very disappointed for a very long time

Jets fans regarding QB's:

QB is terrible:  He didn't have talent/weapons, coaching, a good backup to "push" him, fan support, and the media was mean to him.  And he only failed on his 2nd team because the Jets "ruined" him.

QB is decent/good:  Guy sucks. 

 

Our fans don't deserve a franchise QB or Super Bowl.

[BowlesMovement]

He does suck, but when it comes to the "nobody hates Geno", speak for yourself. 

And when a Jets player says he's really motivated to get better for next year and that is met with the same level of discouragement that we've all seen prior to the statement being made, then it is what it is. 

I want to replace him as a starter, just not with the starter we currently have because though that starter is better he's not good enough to accomplish what we need to accomplish. But I wouldnt hate on a man who acknowledges his faults and has the motivation to get better.

I think Fitz sucks, but I dont hate the man. I think he has great qualities that could rub off on younger guys which could help inspire and instill that motivation that is required to get over the hurdle. 

When I see people who can differentiate the fact that he sucks along with their personal feelings in order to appreciate that the man is trying to put a foot forward then the only thing that I can conclude is that there's hate in the blood. 

If thats not you then great, but lets not pretend like no one hates Geno. Thats bullcrap and you knew it as you were writing it. 

 

Fitz sucks? I mean come on man. You want to say he is not good, average, but sucks?

How many QB's have ever thrown 30+ TD's in a season who have sucked, I don't even care about their weapons.... Get me a list of them.

[Jetsfan80]

Smash was once one of Mark Sanchez's biggest apologists.  Not the same guy as Geno?  OK, fair point.  One fumbles into guy's butts, the other fumbles behind his back.  One wipes boogers on people's sleeves, the other can't tell time.  One mopes on the sidelines and finds creative ways to commit mind-bending turnovers and pick sixes.....OK, both mope on the sidelines and find creative ways to commit mind-bending turnovers and pick sixes.

When Smash says a QB sucks, you've lost the war. 

[BowlesMovement]

Smash was once one of Mark Sanchez's biggest apologists.  When he says a QB sucks, you've lost the war. 

Honestly, smash understand the QB position far better than most Jet fans do, he is a very knowledgable football guy. I never saw him really apologize for Sanchez, only say he saw potential and saw what the Jets did to him. Its hard to argue with either of those two points.

Even the biggest Sanchez haters have to recognize how badly he was developed, and just how awful the entire offense was from the coach to the QB to the WR's to the Oline in 2012 which was his ending.

If you draft a QB that high, you need to do a much better job than Rex and co. did with him, it may not have mattered, but you still have to do better.

[Jetsfan80]

Honestly, smash understand the QB position far better than most Jet fans do, he is a very knowledgable football guy. I never saw him really apologize for Sanchez, only say he saw potential and saw what the Jets did to him. Its hard to argue with either of those two points.

Even the biggest Sanchez haters have to recognize how badly he was developed, and just how awful the entire offense was from the coach to the QB to the WR's to the Oline in 2012 which was his ending.

If you draft a QB that high, you need to do a much better job than Rex and co. did with him, it may not have mattered, but you still have to do better.

Yes.  I think Sanchez sucked AND the Jets handled him poorly.  Those aren't mutually exclusive.  The same can be said of Geno.  Make all the excuses in the world for the guy, but even in a great situation, he'd still bust. 

You can't fix poor accuracy, poor leadership skills/attitude, and slow processing even if you have 3 Megatrons to throw to.  Sanchez, to his credit, seemed to have 1/3 of those at times (the leadership skills/attitude).  Geno is 0/3. 

Even a QB whisperer like Chip Kelly, who got a lot out of Nick Foles and the maximum he could out of Sanchez, still benched him in favor a Sam Bradford after 2 ACL tears, and never was willing to commit to Sanchez even when Bradford wasn't working out.  Geno will very likely end up going the same route.  This coaching staff just showed how little they trust Geno by rushing Fitz back from hand surgery.  2 different coaching staffs learned that despite his athletic gifts, he doesn't have much of anything to offer as a QB.  At his next stop, some solid QB guy will try to "fix" Geno out of a backup role.  It won't end up working out.  Yet people will still claim Sanchez/Geno never really got a "chance" to show what they can do.  2+ chances are a lot in this league. 

[BowlesMovement]

Yes.  I think Sanchez sucked AND the Jets handled him poorly.  Those aren't mutually exclusive.  The same can be said of Geno.  Make all the excuses in the world for the guy, but even in a great situation, he'd still bust. 

You can't fix poor accuracy, poor leadership skills/attitude, and slow processing even if you have 3 Megatrons to throw to.  Sanchez, to his credit, seemed to have 1/3 of those at times (the leadership skills/attitude).  Geno is 0/3. 

Even with a QB whisperer like Chip Kelly, who got a lot out of Nick Foles and the maximum he could out of Sanchez, still benched him in favor a Sam Bradford after 2 ACL tears, and never was willing to commit to Sanchez even when Bradford wasn't working out.  Geno will very likely end up going the same route.  Some solid QB guy will try to "fix" Geno in a backup role.  It won't end up working out.

Of course they are not mutually exclusive, but that does not excuse them. Eli Manning had an incredibly similar "suckage" early in his career, who was far more prepared to play in the NFL and had far, far better coaching at his disposal than Sanchez did. Had Eli Manning been the starting QB of the 2012 Jets, after HIS first 3 years, Eli Manning would have had the same ending.

As for Chip Kelly, Sanchez was toast by the time he got there, and what has Chip Kelly ever really done to warrant being called a QB whisperer?

Sanchez is ancient history, I don't give a rats ass about him, but he showed far, far more potential than Geno ever did in every way possible for a QB.

[Jetsfan80]

Of course they are not mutually exclusive, but that does not excuse them. Eli Manning had an incredibly similar "suckage" early in his career, who was far more prepared to play in the NFL and had far, far better coaching at his disposal than Sanchez did. Had Eli Manning been the starting QB of the 2012 Jets, after HIS first 3 years, Eli Manning would have had the same ending.

Eli Manning is a very common comparison, but he played far better in the early part of his career than Sanchez/Geno ever did.  In his first 3 full seasons, Eli threw 24, 24, and 23 TD's, respectively.  And despite being asked to throw it over 520 times each of those 3 seasons, his INT % was not as bad as you think.  He had 17, 18, and 20 picks those 3 years. 

Sanchez and Geno were asked to throw it a lot less in our system, yet Sanchez averaged 17 picks per season his first 3 years, and Geno had 34 picks in 2 years.

Eli displayed a high ceiling even in his early years, which made up for the turnovers committed.  Sanchez and Geno were turnover machines who never displayed that kind of upside.  If you're going to be a gunslinger you need to put up points.  Eli did.  Sanchez and Geno did not.  Very often with those 2 we found ourselves losing games where the defense held the opposition under 17 points. 

Would anyone have anticipated Eli would win a Super in that 4th season?  Probably not.  But he was rightfully viewed as a franchise guy even before that happened.  Sanchez lost his "franchise guy" tag at the tail end of his 3rd season, if not his 4th season.  Geno, as a 2nd rounder, was not viewed as a franchise guy from the start, and did very little to make anyone believe he would be. 

[BowlesMovement]

Eli Manning is a very common comparison, but he played far better in the early part of his career than Sanchez/Geno ever did.  In his first 3 full seasons, Eli threw 24, 24, and 23 TD's, respectively.  And despite being asked to throw it over 520 times each of those 3 seasons, his INT % was not as bad as you think.  He had 17, 18, and 20 picks those 3 years. 

Sanchez and Geno were asked to throw it a lot less in our system, yet Sanchez averaged 17 picks per season his first 3 years, and Geno had 34 picks in 2 years.

Eli displayed a high ceiling even in his early years, which made up for the turnovers committed.  Sanchez and Geno were turnover machines who never displayed that kind of upside.  If you're going to be a gunslinger you need to put up points.  Eli did.  Sanchez and Geno did not.  Very often with those 2 we found ourselves losing games where the defense held the opposition under 17 points. 

Would anyone have anticipated Eli would win a Super in that 4th season?  Probably not.  But he was rightfully viewed as a franchise guy even before that happened.  Sanchez lost his "franchise guy" tag at the tail end of his 3rd season, if not his 4th season.  Geno, as a 2nd rounder, was not viewed as a franchise guy from the start, and did very little to make anyone believe he would be. 

I distinctly remember after the Giants Bills game in 07, which was the end of Eli's 4th season, Giants fans calling up WFAN all weak basically saying Eli was the biggest bust since Ryan Leaf, and he was terrible, and it was time to cut bait. I was on the road that whole weak for work and listened to a ton of sports talk, it was ruthless.

Eli also sat the first half of his first year, and had Warner as his mentor!

Sanchez starting in 09 was criminal, for Jets fans and for his career. Eli was so much more ready to start in the NFL based on his college experience, his father and his brother than Sanchez was. I don't care if Clemens was the only guy on the roster, Sanchez starting in 09 was criminal.

Sanchez came out of school too early, the Jets drafted him too high, and they did an absolute terrible job with him.

The Jets did EVERYTHING wrong with Sanchez, everything. He was an immature punk who was running around pantsing players in the locker room, and instead of kicking his ass, Rex yucked it up with him and pampered him.

Then, after showing some promise in 10 in both the regular season and the playoffs, Rex decided Sanchez was good enough to let the Oline weaken, and take away his top two receiving targets to pursue Namdi. I mean who in their right mind thought Sanchez was ready for that?

Again, Sanchez is gone, good riddance, but to ignore how terribly the Jets handled their high QB draft pick is crazy. If you were going to write a book on how NOT to develop a QB, you would look at the Jets and Sanchez.

[Jetsfan80]

I distinctly remember after the Giants Bills game in 07, which was the end of Eli's 4th season, Giants fans calling up WFAN all weak basically saying Eli was the biggest bust since Ryan Leaf, and he was terrible, and it was time to cut bait. I was on the road that whole weak for work and listened to a ton of sports talk, it was ruthless.

Eli also sat the first half of his first year, and had Warner as his mentor!

Giants fans are some of the most spoiled, stupid fans out there.  Especially those that were mad enough to call WFAN.  That doesn't mean they were right.  I only care what the Giants front office/coaching thought of him.  They kept trotting him out there every week in year 2 and beyond.  And Kurt Warner just happened to be a guy who will likely be an eventual Hall of Famer.  It's no shame for a rookie, even a # 1 overall pick, to get benched for him.  You could even argue maybe that was the best thing for him at the time.

You also have to give Eli credit:  That kind of scrutiny never got to him.  He had the perfect approach to playing in NY:  Don't listen to what anybody says outside of your own teammates and coaches. 

It's pretty clear Sanchez and Geno lacked that ability to ignore the scrutiny.  Geno especially.  He once went at it verbally with a fan in the stands.