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Report: Raiders Interested in Wilkerson

JetNation

By JetNation
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SenorGato

SenorGato

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Mo is  great but Mo is slow.    He is worth about 75 percent of Watt or Von Miller IMO. 

Slow compared to what? He ran a sub-5 40 at 315 pounds before he even hit an NFL weight room. While opinions are nice to have and all, this is another over arbitrary and misguided one on Wilkerson.

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southparkcpa

southparkcpa

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Slow compared to what? He ran a sub-5 40 at 315 pounds before he even hit an NFL weight room. While opinions are nice to have and all, this is another over arbitrary and misguided one on Wilkerson.

Just watch him and Sheldon. They are not known for speed.   It's visual..I don't need to know their 40 time. 

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SenorGato

SenorGato

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8 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Just watch him and Sheldon. They are not known for speed.   It's visual..I don't need to know their 40 time. 

Oooooh, more guteyefeel based "analysis"...That's worked so well so far, why not brush aside reality and conflicting information yet again in favor of how we feel and what our eye gut tells us? Alrighty, you feel the way you feel and let that be enough for you, I won't take that imagining away from you.

I do think Richardson is the best pure athlete of the bunch. Unfortunately, 3+ years into a career that matters a whole lot less than it did on draft day. He's not the performer Wilkerson is and any speed edge he has is marginal considering Wilkerson is an excellent athlete himself.

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BroadwayJets

BroadwayJets

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19 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

LOLZ, not surprised to see a suddenly different standard after that atrocious offseason that moves the team backwards.

Rest assured, the Jets can cut (Cromartie, D'Brick, Cumberland, Kerley, Bohanon, Stacy, Stanford, several bottom of the 51 or off 51 guys like Jesse Davis and Julian Stamford), trade (Richardson, Mangold?), and restructure (Marhsall, Revis) their way to 35+ million dollars in cap space.

I would then:

Resign Wilkerson to a 6 year $110 deal with $62 million in guarantees...Base salaries between $8 (year 1) and 12.5 million (final 2, both cuttable seasons)....Structure the bonus so that his cap hit starts at $15 million and never goes above $18 million - all during a span of years the cap is expected to climb.

Resign Fitzgerald for 3/27 with 12 million in guarantees, structured for about a 7 million cap hit in 2016.

Sign Ronnie Hillman to a 3 year 5-6 million dollar contract, a million in guarantees, with about a million dollar cap hit in 2016.

Resign Henderson to a 2 year 2.5 million dollar deal, a million in guarantees with a million dollar salary in 2016. 

Sign Mitchell Schwartz (5 years at ~25 million, ~10 in guarantees), Nick Perry (5 years/ 30 million, ~9 million guaranteed), Zac Brown LB, and unless the Raiders move quickly - Marquette King their P.

I'd then trade Richardson to the Seahawks for their 2016 first (pick 26), their 4th, and OT Terrry Poole.

You claim atrocious offseason yet do the 80% of things the same. Interesting.

One thing I can't fathom is having a guy like Richardson who did just get in trouble twice with a possible suspension looming, and imagining we'd get a 1st rounder and 4th rounder? You really think Schneider/any GM would do that? We could actually get something for Wilkerson, and not pay him 110 million dollars. I get that you're weary of Sheldon's character, but why would any team trade the house for him? No team would. His value is at an all time low. 

Other than that, decent haul, because again, it's basically the same exact thing as what I said, minus the trades. I doubt Marshall would restructure because he agreed to be traded here to receive slightly more money, unless we extend him and lower his number for this season. 

 

As for Wilkerson's contract, you get agitated when I compare JJ Watt to Mo but you want to pay him more than JJ Watt? 

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BroadwayJets

BroadwayJets

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Giants, Browns, Saints, Colts, Jags, Cowboys, Bears and Falcons are the only teams I could think of that have weak defensive lines. This draft is DL heavy plus some. ANyone thinking this league is beginning to become over saturated with DL? Obviously, too much isn't a bad thing for teams, but supply and demand brings value down. So, I'm just not down to pay a DL $110 million. 

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SenorGato

SenorGato

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17 minutes ago, BroadwayJets said:

You claim atrocious offseason yet do the 80% of things the same. Interesting.

One thing I can't fathom is having a guy like Richardson who did just get in trouble twice with a possible suspension looming, and imagining we'd get a 1st rounder and 4th rounder? You really think Schneider/any GM would do that? We could actually get something for Wilkerson, and not pay him 110 million dollars. I get that you're weary of Sheldon's character, but why would any team trade the house for him? No team would. His value is at an all time low. 

Other than that, decent haul, because again, it's basically the same exact thing as what I said, minus the trades. I doubt Marshall would restructure because he agreed to be traded here to receive slightly more money, unless we extend him and lower his number for this season. 

 

As for Wilkerson's contract, you get agitated when I compare JJ Watt to Mo but you want to pay him more than JJ Watt? 

- I don't think you know what 80% is, but yeah our off seasons aren't alike.

- I thought you or one of the half dozen said Richardson isn't getting suspended? Schneider has a win now roster, is losing his longest tenured DT, is getting two years of a DT on his rookie deal. You can get something for Richardson and not lose the best player on the roster, which is more important than whining about $110 million that Wilkerson actually get all of.

- It's not the same thing you said, but it is better than what you suggest. Restructuring Marhsall means he is around longer, he'll restructure or work out something to free up some money.

- Adjust for inflation on Watt and realize  he sold himself short on money anyway in exchange for early raises and a contract he will play through - looks better on the resume that way. Watt is the most likely of the extended DE/DT crowd to receive his whole contract value, guys like Wilkerson and Dareus are more likely to never see the tail end of their deals and would have contracts structured to cut them at age 30-31. 

 

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SenorGato

SenorGato

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4 minutes ago, BroadwayJets said:

Giants, Browns, Saints, Colts, Jags, Cowboys, Bears and Falcons are the only teams I could think of that have weak defensive lines. This draft is DL heavy plus some. ANyone thinking this league is beginning to become over saturated with DL? Obviously, too much isn't a bad thing for teams, but supply and demand brings value down. So, I'm just not down to pay a DL $110 million. 

No, but your attempts to grasp at straws are adorable. Another lame and weak attempt...

 

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BroadwayJets

BroadwayJets

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Posted
Just now, SenorGato said:

- I don't think you know what 80% is, but yeah our off seasons aren't alike.

- I thought you or one of the half dozen said Richardson isn't getting suspended? Schneider has a win now roster, is losing his longest tenured DT, is getting two years of a DT on his rookie deal. You can get something for Richardson and not lose the best player on the roster, which is more important than whining about $110 million that Wilkerson actually get all of.

- It's not the same thing you said, but it is better than what you suggest. Restructuring Marhsall means he is around longer, he'll restructure or work out something to free up some money.

- Adjust for inflation on Watt and realize  he sold himself short on money anyway in exchange for early raises. Watt is the most likely of the extended DE/DT crowd to receive his whole contract value, guys like Wilkerson and Dareus are more likely to never see the tail end of their deals and would have contracts structured to cut them at age 30-31. 

 

Sorry, 8/13 were the same, please forgive me.

I said it was possible he doesn't, but I'm predicting 4 games. Is Bennett leaving? 

Idk, leaving a rookie C and Winters together in the middle of the OL sounds like a catastrophe with Fitz playing qb. I'd address Mangold's contract next season, unless his contract is up, not sure.

And I can't disagree with JJ Watts contract because he definitely could have gotten more. Also, idk what you're seeing, but what inflation?? (joke)

 

 

1 minute ago, SenorGato said:

No, but your attempts to grasp at straws are adorable. Another lame and weak attempt...

 

Why don't you tell me more about how Wilkerson missing weeks 11-13 was the reason we went 4-12 last season?

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SenorGato

SenorGato

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6 minutes ago, BroadwayJets said:

Sorry, 8/13 were the same, please forgive me.

I said it was possible he doesn't, but I'm predicting 4 games. Is Bennett leaving? 

Idk, leaving a rookie C and Winters together in the middle of the OL sounds like a catastrophe with Fitz playing qb. I'd address Mangold's contract next season, unless his contract is up, not sure.

And I can't disagree with JJ Watts contract because he definitely could have gotten more. Also, idk what you're seeing, but what inflation?? (joke)

Why don't you tell me more about how Wilkerson missing weeks 11-13 was the reason we went 4-12 last season?

- It's cool. 19% isn't that big a deal, and that's on the favorable end.

- IIRC you said he wasn't. No, but Mebane is. Bennett's also a DE.

- Mangold is still on the team in that offseason.

- Since I've talked about it extensively before - I take this more as you running out of spin in one area. How about an explanation of the defensive backs being responsible despite being one player different from their 2013 group? They were the key to run defense? Why were the surrounding years, with Wilkerson in all the games, so much better all around? Magic and stuff and things? Does Richardson become better once we start walking down this avenue again?

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BroadwayJets

BroadwayJets

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Just now, SenorGato said:

- It's cool. 19% isn't that big a deal, and that's on the favorable end.

- IIRC you said he wasn't. No, but Mebane is. Bennett's also a DE.

- Mangold is still on the team in that offseason.

- Since I've talked about it extensively before - I take this more as you running out of spin in one area -  how about an explanation of the defensive backs being responsible despite being one player different from their 2013 group? Why were the surrounding years, with Wilkerson in all the games, so much better? Magic and stuff and things? Does Richardson become better once we start walking down this avenue again?

You remember wrong, look at the thread I started "Richardson pleads guilty".

 

You're using the same argument I've used with the DBs. I blame coaching - Rex. But don't act like Wilkerson's absence was the reason we went from 2-9 to 2-12. The entire year was a sh*t show, and the only strength was the DL. 

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SenorGato

SenorGato

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1 minute ago, BroadwayJets said:

You're using the same argument I've used with the DBs. I blame coaching - Rex. But don't act like Wilkerson's absence was the reason we went from 2-9 to 2-12. The entire year was a sh*t show, and the only strength was the DL. 

Wilkerson's absence, OTOH, is the reason they went from a top tier D year in and year out to a mediocre one in 2014 that couldn't even stop the run well. He comes back and they're right back up there.

 

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BroadwayJets

BroadwayJets

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Just now, SenorGato said:

Wilkerson's absence, OTOH, is the reason they went from a top tier D year in and year out to a mediocre one in 2014 that couldn't even stop the run well. He comes back and they're right back up there.

 

You mean, the same year we came in 5th for rush yards allowed? http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/position/defense/year/2014

 

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SenorGato

SenorGato

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1 minute ago, BroadwayJets said:

Allowing 3.8 yards a carry is not bad 

I'll keep that in mind, that's nice to know. You'll also notice how only 8 teams allow an average greater than 4.3 YPC, or only half a yard off the Jets' average. You're clearly running out of steam, why not just quit for the third or fourth time?

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BroadwayJets

BroadwayJets

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Just now, SenorGato said:

I'll keep that in mind. You're clearly running out of steam, why not just quit for the third or fourth time?

Patience*. Soon enough, yes. You believing the run defense in 2014 was bad from looking at a website is pathetic. Our run defense was our ONLY strength.

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SenorGato

SenorGato

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10 minutes ago, BroadwayJets said:

Patience*. Soon enough, yes. You believing the run defense in 2014 was bad from looking at a website is pathetic. Our run defense was our ONLY strength.

No, steam....You got your proof for their awesome on a website. You've also used FO to "prove" that Wilkerson, and Wilkerson alone in NFL and Jets history, benefitted from weak competiton. Holy jinkees are you running out of steam...Just quit for the whatever time this is dude, you're not less for it.

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BroadwayJets

BroadwayJets

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5 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

No, steam....You got your proof for their awesome on a website. You've also used FO to "prove" that Wilkerson, and Wilkerson alone in NFL and Jets history, benefitted from weak competiton. Holy jinkees are you running out of steam...Just quit for the whatever time this is dude, you're not less for it.

Analytics in football isn't everything... it takes eyes too. Clearly you're Ray Charles. 

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jgb

jgb

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On 2/5/2016 at 9:04 AM, Joe W. Namath said:

Great post.  This regime needs to go get a qb.  Leonard williams can replace Mo.  Get a qb!

we have one

if we trade our best defensive player, i don't want it to be for some magic beans (draft picks) i want it to be for a proven commodity QB.

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Miss Lonelyhearts

Miss Lonelyhearts

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Posted
10 hours ago, BroadwayJets said:

You mean, the same year we came in 5th for rush yards allowed? http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/position/defense/year/2014

 

 

10 hours ago, BroadwayJets said:

Analytics in football isn't everything... it takes eyes too. Clearly you're Ray Charles. 

This would be brilliant if he was screwing with Gato. He's not, so it's stupid, but you can imagine.

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southparkcpa

southparkcpa

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15 hours ago, SenorGato said:

Oooooh, more guteyefeel based "analysis"...That's worked so well so far, why not brush aside reality and conflicting information yet again in favor of how we feel and what our eye gut tells us? Alrighty, you feel the way you feel and let that be enough for you, I won't take that imagining away from you.

I do think Richardson is the best pure athlete of the bunch. Unfortunately, 3+ years into a career that matters a whole lot less than it did on draft day. He's not the performer Wilkerson is and any speed edge he has is marginal considering Wilkerson is an excellent athlete himself.

well....   too bad Tanny isnt our GM anymore. He would certainly overpay Mo and make you happy.  Mo is 75 to 80 percent the player JJ Watt is.  He has never dominated a game like Miller or Watt so yes, thats how I feel and most people feel. Mo is great no doubt but not worth the money Watt or Miller is.

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BroadwayJets

BroadwayJets

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3 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

 

This would be brilliant if he was screwing with Gato. He's not, so it's stupid, but you can imagine.

I don't consider stats/averages as analytics. I know the offensive lines we faced this year were bad, and I know our run stoppage was our only strength on defense in 2014.

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SenorGato

SenorGato

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3 hours ago, BroadwayJets said:

I don't consider stats/averages as analytics. I know the offensive lines we faced this year were bad, and I know our run stoppage was our only strength on defense in 2014.

That's all very convenient and nice for you. Man-o-rama did that steam run out.

3 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

well....   too bad Tanny isnt our GM anymore. He would certainly overpay Mo and make you happy.  Mo is 75 to 80 percent the player JJ Watt is.  He has never dominated a game like Miller or Watt so yes, thats how I feel and most people feel. Mo is great no doubt but not worth the money Watt or Miller is.

Is that how you feel in your gut using your eye? Well, I am only mortal and cannot fight the tools of the gods, so I shall keep this in mind! 

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SenorGato

SenorGato

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36 minutes ago, BroadwayJets said:

At this point I'll expect a Villain-esque thread from you, but you seem like the type to verbally attack Mac instead of admit you overrate Mo. 

Stop, stop....I don't need another reason to laugh when Maccagnan extends Wilkerson. Also...you are running on fyuuuumes.

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Sperm Edwards

Sperm Edwards

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On February 10, 2016 at 4:03 PM, SenorGato said:

 

Again, until you run through every player's sacks and run them through your little editing process, it's not the thing you hope it is. What is even the premise here? All leads are insurmountable 

Again - until you do these matchups for everyone - especially considering Wilkerson plays every spot on the DL - this is just as hard to buy as the Wilkerson exclusive stat editing process. Again, I don't see you quick to dismiss Von Miller dominating the likes of Oher and Remmers, neither anyone's idea of the ideal starting OT, so what exactly is the process here?

He most definitely is worth that money, especially over the likes of Richardson. All your situation sets up is a scenario where the Jets are set to go from three to one by within two years anyway. Richardson's gone after the 2017 season. He's already looking forward to demanding Suh money. Wilkerson's consistency - both game to game and year to year, his durability, his character, his long track record off performance, his long standing as the best player on the team - 4 years now, and his versatility all make him a more worthwhile investment for the Jets over Richardson, and worth paying over anyone currently on the roster. He is, indeed, special enough as a player to be that guy - selective stat counting and demerits for matchup advantages you don't give others just isn't the factor you think it is. 

You can go do that exercise. I don't take requests.

You are simply flat-out wrong. Again.

He is very, very good. He's not incredible. If he is, then surely teams would be falling over each other to cough up a pair of 1st rounders for him. Or even ONE team would be willing to give that up. Yet I sense the chances of this occurring are about zero.

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Sperm Edwards

Sperm Edwards

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On February 10, 2016 at 6:16 PM, Larz said:

sheldumb didn't produce. 5 sacks with all of his reps sucks, simple fact

are you planning on replacing mo with another DE, or just go forward with what hey have and not even replace him ?

I don't think you are taking into consideration that the shopping spree you think might result from letting mo go isn't going very far

mo's cap number last year was $7 million.  If you want to use $14 million as his new number fine

what do you get by spreading around $7 million, and how is that team better without mo ?

please use names and stuff

 

It is not a simple fact. It would be a simple fact if they were both playing the same position. You are comparing apples and oranges and criticizing the apples for not being oranges.

It is not $14M instead of $7M. It's $14M instead of zero.

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