Report: Raiders Interested in Wilkerson

[drdetroit]

7 minutes ago, Joe Jets fan said:

I am still laughing about the statement that Mo is most important player on the team.  Mo goes out the D does just fine. I can name four just on offense that if the go out, game over.   

Fitz, Brick, mangold, Marshall. 

Marshall was the mvp last season and its not even close.  Fitz was probably second

 

How many playoff wins does JJ Watt, who is better than Wilk have without ever playing with a qb?  

 

[EM31]

How much more per year would Jets fans be willing to go for Von Miller?

[drdetroit]

3 minutes ago, EM31 said:

How much more per year would Jets fans be willing to go for Von Miller?

Miller is worth $17 mil per season.  Not Wilk especially when you also have Leonard Williams and Sheldon Richardson on the roster

[EM31]

5 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Miller is worth $17 mil per season.  Not Wilk especially when you also have Leonard Williams and Sheldon Richardson on the roster

I understand the Richardson and Williams arguments but straight up contract value I am thinking Von Miller is worth between four and five million per year more than Mo Wilkerson.  Especially for a team with an anemic pass rush. For me that means Wilkerson tops out around at 12M-13M per year.

[drdetroit]

7 minutes ago, EM31 said:

I understand the Richardson and Williams arguments but straight up contract value I am thinking Von Miller is worth between four and five million per year more than Mo Wilkerson.  Especially for a team with an anemic pass rush. For me that means Wilkerson tops out around at 12M-13M per year.

Wilk  can get more than that on the open market.  Teams that need him like Giants and Raiders have around $50 mil in cap room.

 

suh has an average annual salary of $19 mil

[T0mShane]

45 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

 

suh has an average annual salary of $19 mil*

 

*Tannenbaum

[drdetroit]

Ironic that Rex has a reputation as a horrible drafter what most of this board wants to pay a player he supposedly picked $20 mil per season and redo our entire roster just to keep him

[SenorGato]

9 hours ago, Joe Jets fan said:

I am still laughing about the statement that Mo is most important player on the team.  Mo goes out the D does just fine. I can name four just on offense that if the go out, game over.   

Fitz, Brick, mangold, Marshall. 

Best....He's the best player on the team, and it's not even close. Mo goes out, the D usually drops with him. 

Meh- mostly on positional value, lol no, lol no, and lol no. Marshall had another Marshall-esque season of inefficient pass catching but a ton of targets, he's the same 2nd or 3rd tier #1 WR he's always been. He's more in the mold of guys like Muhammad and Joe Jeruvicius than an actual elite WR.

 

 

[SenorGato]

6 hours ago, drdetroit said:

Ironic that Rex has a reputation as a horrible drafter what most of this board wants to pay a player he supposedly picked $20 mil per season and redo our entire roster just to keep him

Believe it or not, but the former HC's reputation in the draft has nothing to do with evaluating a player five years into the player's career. Couldn't have less to do with it, nor could the ever increasing made up demands.

This is the NFL, roster turnover is a yearly thing for every team. Nothing out of the ordinary has to be done

[SenorGato]

8 hours ago, drdetroit said:

Miller is worth $17 mil per season.  Not Wilk especially when you also have Leonard Williams and Sheldon Richardson on the roster

Richardson is under contract for one more season after 2016. For all the nonsense made up about Wilkerson's demands, Richardson is the only guy on the roster who has talked about seeking Suh money in FA. 

It's like talking to walls....All of this is easy to find out, all of this has been stated and restated, yet people still choose to run with imagininary things in the sake of more imaginary things.

[Lupz27]

11 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Richardson is under contract for one more season after 2016. For all the nonsense made up about Wilkerson's demands, Richardson is the only guy on the roster who has talked about seeking Suh money in FA. 

It's like talking to walls....All of this is easy to find out, all of this has been stated and restated, yet people still choose to run with imagininary things in the sake of more imaginary things.

If I'm the Jets, and I can get Myles Jack, and sign a proven outside LB pass rusher that would have went to Mo I do it in a heart beat.  Yes that's asking for a miracle, but it's something you have to do if the opportunity presents itself. 

[SenorGato]

8 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

If I'm the Jets, and I can get Myles Jack, and sign a proven outside LB pass rusher that would have went to Mo I do it in a heart beat.  Yes that's asking for a miracle, but it's something you have to do if the opportunity presents itself. 

Hopefully the Jets aren't into making the team worse immediately on the hopes of signing an unknown, probably imaginary FA and drafting a linebacker coming off a major knee injury. It's not something they even kinda sorta have to do, it's actually closer to something they should probably laugh at doing.*

 

* Unless Woody is calling the shots and needs some extra money to put a down payment on an island this offseason by saving some money on his foozeball payroll. In which case, totally getting worse and cheaper is something they should do.

[Jetster]

27 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Best....He's the best player on the team, and it's not even close. Mo goes out, the D usually drops with him. 

Meh- mostly on positional value, lol no, lol no, and lol no. Marshall had another Marshall-esque season of inefficient pass catching but a ton of targets, he's the same 2nd or 3rd tier #1 WR he's always been. He's more in the mold of guys like Muhammad and Joe Jeruvicius than an actual elite WR.

 

 

Okay, lol, you don't need to say another thing after the above statement. Brandon Marshall>Muhammad & Joe Jeruvicious.

I think you need to review the games Mo missed, in fact Coples stepped in & was more disruptive,lol. By the way Bowles cut Coples last year. Mos good, he's just not GREAT. 

[SenorGato]

25 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Okay, lol, you don't need to say another thing after the above statement. 

You would think that, but then you went on to make up more things and pretend they're true because you might actually believe them. Sadly, many here prefer to have really dumb, poorly thought out opinions on Wilkerson in favor over looking at all available info. I assume it's some issue of pride, hence "lol" being a staple of the "points" being made. 

To recap:

- Wilkerson is the best player on the team.

- Wilkerson is the most valuable player on the team unless you want to give Fitzgerald the edge on position value.

- The defense doesn't stay the same or get better without Wilkerson, they get worse - as was the clear case when he missed three games in 2014. 

- Brandon Marhsall is the same guy he's always been, an inefficient pass catcher. He just happens to be coming off a career high in TDs and yards thanks to ~175 targets, the most he's had since 2012. He didn't magically jump in status as a Jets player. 

- A center and a long declining LT aren't better or more valuable players to this roster either.

[detectivekimble]

On February 8, 2016 at 7:12 PM, SenorGato said:

- Also because they were missing their best player on the DL for nearly 1/5 of the season.

- Richardson got the gift of playing with a Wilkerson level talent right off the bat across from him. Wilkerson started off with two guys on their last legs in the league, was instantly the best player on the DL, and then didn't cost himself and the team time by getting suspended because he got depwessed during the offseason. Playing out of position last year has a lot to do with the Jets having better players to play on the DL and its Richardson's own fault his supposed growth got stunted (allegedly).

It was really because of the crap secondary.

And spin it however you want, Richardson's first two years were better than Wilkerson's.  And they played Richardson at OLB because he was the only one athletic enough to do it.  

[SenorGato]

15 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

It was really because of the crap secondary.

And spin it however you want, Richardson's first two years were better than Wilkerson's.  And they played Richardson at OLB because he was the only one athletic enough to do it.  

The crap secondary that was much better the year before without Wilkerson missing a chunk of the season. 

However you want to spin it, Richardson's not in Wilkerson's league and has little hope of joining it beyond momentary displays that he'll try to leverage into Suh money. They played Richardson at OLB because he's the third best DE but better than Pace's corpse/a rookie who nearly suffered a career ending injury/etc at OLB. Smart of the Jets to showcase him for when they start shopping him in a trade.

[T0mShane]

8 hours ago, drdetroit said:

Ironic that Rex has a reputation as a horrible drafter what most of this board wants to pay a player he supposedly picked $20 mil per season and redo our entire roster just to keep him

like rain on your wedding day

[Mogglez]

10 hours ago, drdetroit said:

Ironic that Rex has a reputation as a horrible drafter what most of this board wants to pay a player he supposedly picked $20 mil per season and redo our entire roster just to keep him

I want no part in that. Also, one good player doesn't excuse: Kyle Wilson, Mark Sanchez (who rex picked because of his f*cking proday turnout), Quinton Coples etc.

TL;DR

F*ck giving Mo 20mil, he isn't that type of player, Rex sucked eggs.

[Mogglez]

2 hours ago, SenorGato said:

The crap secondary that was much better the year before without Wilkerson missing a chunk of the season. 

However you want to spin it, Richardson's not in Wilkerson's league and has little hope of joining it beyond momentary displays that he'll try to leverage into Suh money. They played Richardson at OLB because he's the third best DE but better than Pace's corpse/a rookie who nearly suffered a career ending injury/etc at OLB. Smart of the Jets to showcase him for when they start shopping him in a trade.

Man, I usually agree with you, but I don't see Mo sticking. Sheldon is far from the third best DE and is likely the one they're keeping. 

[SenorGato]

22 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Man, I usually agree with you, but I don't see Mo sticking. Sheldon is far from the third best DE and is likely the one they're keeping. 

I don't see Sheldon sticking with Williams being as good as he is and Wilkerson representing a far safer character with, at worst, the same level of performance over a [much] longer period of time. 

Richardson's made himself expendable, he has the talent to be the top guy but instead got suspended last year for smoking weed to solve his depression and then got arrested this year. He's a high risk talent with marginally more upside than the other two DEs, the only one with character concerns. He's the only one who has mentioned seeking Suh type money in a future deal as well. 

The Jets should, if not will, shop his last two rookie deal years for draft picks and keep Wilkerson and Williams as the anchors of the D and DL. 

[maury77]

10 hours ago, SenorGato said:

Best....He's the best player on the team, and it's not even close. Mo goes out, the D usually drops with him. 

Meh- mostly on positional value, lol no, lol no, and lol no. Marshall had another Marshall-esque season of inefficient pass catching but a ton of targets, he's the same 2nd or 3rd tier #1 WR he's always been. He's more in the mold of guys like Muhammad and Joe Jeruvicius than an actual elite WR.

 

 

That is insane. Who do you define as an elite WR?

[drdetroit]

So if the jets don't give Wilk $120 million will Gato become a Giants fan?  

[SenorGato]

1 hour ago, maury77 said:

That is insane. Who do you define as an elite WR?

If Marhall defines elite for you, that's on you. While he probably did have the best year of his career last year and it was one of the better seasons at WR in the league, there were lots of guys better on a rate basis - including teammate Eric Decker:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr

I consider him probably a top 15-25 WR because he's typically so inefficient and prone to dumb mistakes like that fumble this year. His raw size/speed combo does make him one of the better compilers and red zone targets in the league, which is why I liken him to guys like Muhammad and Jeruvicius.

54 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

So if the jets don't give Wilk $120 million will Gato become a Giants fan?  

What's with this sh*t? What does this add and is this your way of saying the a Jets should give Aldon Smith $30 million? As the newer crowd goes, you definitely seem to be on the lower end of quality.

[detectivekimble]

14 hours ago, SenorGato said:

The crap secondary that was much better the year before without Wilkerson missing a chunk of the season. 

However you want to spin it, Richardson's not in Wilkerson's league and has little hope of joining it beyond momentary displays that he'll try to leverage into Suh money. They played Richardson at OLB because he's the third best DE but better than Pace's corpse/a rookie who nearly suffered a career ending injury/etc at OLB. Smart of the Jets to showcase him for when they start shopping him in a trade.

No, they played Richardson at OLB because Wilkerson and Williams can't play OLB.

[ylekram]

richardsons comments about suh money went as follows " we want suh money". he didnt say "i want suh money". taken with the entire context of the interview, one can make the argument that sheldon was speaking for mo wilks as well

[Beerfish]

 

[Jet Nut]

23 hours ago, drdetroit said:

Ironic that Rex has a reputation as a horrible drafter what most of this board wants to pay a player he supposedly picked $20 mil per season and redo our entire roster just to keep him

Rex didnt draft Mo.  And even if he did you wouldnt sign a player thats good because of who drafted him?  What sense does that make?  If he got lucky you wouldnt sign Mo because of failed draft picks?

On what level does this make sense?

[Sperm Edwards]

On February 5, 2016 at 8:34 PM, pointman said:

I'm OK with trading Mo, but making up for 12 sacks with an already anemic pass rush is a daunting task for this team.

Not really. 1/3 of those sacks came when we were already up by three TDs (3 of them coming in 1 game vs Mariota who wasn't engineering a 3-TD comeback at that point anyway). Those sacks helped Mo, but didn't really help the Jets. 

Damn good player but not nearly worth a shot at a solution at QB. We're going to need all the chances we can get. I don't think they give up a pair of 1's for Mo, but maybe a 1 and a 3. Or a 1 and a conditional 4th that can become a 3 or a 2 for reaching certain sack milestones, or for achieving something else, in 2016.

Stud player that he is, I can't see anyone giving up a pair of 1's and all that $$$ for Mo. 

[Sperm Edwards]

I finally just got through this thread.

Wowza. 

[SenorGato]

2 hours ago, detectivekimble said:

No, they played Richardson at OLB because Wilkerson and Williams can't play OLB.

A little of that, a little showcasing, and alot him being the least likely to stick around.

1 hour ago, ylekram said:

richardsons comments about suh money went as follows " we want suh money". he didnt say "i want suh money". taken with the entire context of the interview, one can make the argument that sheldon was speaking for mo wilks as well

The locker room stoner isn't the guy who should be seen as speaking for anybody. He's the one guy who has made those kind of demands, and is the least worth that kind of investment behind the two down guy.

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Not really. 1/3 of those sacks came when we were already up by three TDs (3 of them coming in 1 game vs Mariota who wasn't engineering a 3-TD comeback at that point anyway). Those sacks helped Mo, but didn't really help the Jets. 

Yeah, again, unless you plan to run this kind of analysis for every sack in the league this isn't a thing. JJ Watt gets/got to play the Titans twice, the a Colts OL twice, and the Jaguars twice a year besides whatever bad teams are on their schedule. How many of those sacks get written off? Justin Houston got to build his reputation playing the Chargers' and Raiders' OLs, plus whatever bad teams, how many sacks are coming off the board? Von Miller got to play some bad Chargers, Raiders, and Chiefs OLs - are we combing through those? McCoy against the NFC South and whatever bad teams on his schedule? It's not the right way to go about things. Not to mention how ridiculous it is to judge a 300 pounder's effect on the passing game by sack totals when - for instance - he is second only to Watt among players in his weight class in PDs at the LOS.

Spin a yarn until the cows come home that somehow losing Wilkerson doesn't hurt the pass rush significantly, but a team losing their best and most productive from 7 player against the pass is instantly a massive blow to this and any defense. This is the kind of player you continue to build a pass rush with, getting outside rushers to compliment and open up more holes, not drop for things you imagine they might get with some breaks.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, SenorGato said:

A little of that, a little showcasing, and alot him being the least likely to stick around.

The locker room stoner isn't the guy who should be seen as speaking for anybody. He's the one guy who has made those kind of demands, and is the least worth that kind of investment behind the two down guy.

Yeah, again, unless you plan to run this kind of analysis for every sack in the league this isn't a thing. JJ Watt gets/got to play the Titans twice, the a Colts OL twice, and the Jaguars twice a year besides whatever bad teams are on their schedule. How many of those sacks get written off? Justin Houston got to build his reputation playing the Chargers' and Raiders' OLs, plus whatever bad teams, how many sacks are coming off the board? Von Miller got to play some bad Chargers, Raiders, and Chiefs OLs - are we combing through those? McCoy against the NFC South and whatever bad teams on his schedule? It's not the right way to go about things. Not to mention how ridiculous it is to judge a 300 pounder's effect on the passing game by sack totals when - for instance - he is second only to Watt among players in his weight class in PDs at the LOS.

Spin a yarn until the cows come home that somehow losing Wilkerson doesn't hurt the pass rush significantly, but a team losing their best and most productive from 7 player against the pass is instantly a massive blow to this and any defense. This is the kind of player you continue to build a pass rush with, getting outside rushers to compliment and open up more holes, not drop for things you imagine they might get with some breaks.

I didn't say they were worthless because they came against the Titans. I'm saying they were worthless because they came against the Titans after we were already up by 3 TDs.

Either way, those are not sacks we would miss next year. "Spin" is presuming that his career year of 12 sacks (only 8 of them of any real use to the team) is the new benchmark for the duration of his future career. This was an outlier year for him.

I don't understand why you can't accept that everyone here likes Mo. Everyone would love to have him back for the rest of his career. It's just that everyone doesn't think he's worth  occupying the JJ Watt level of cap space when we have some damn good, talented, young 3-4 ends on the team without him. You're making it sound as though absent Wilkerson the team will be facing Vernon Gholston production. 

[drdetroit]

2 hours ago, ylekram said:

richardsons comments about suh money went as follows " we want suh money". he didnt say "i want suh money". taken with the entire context of the interview, one can make the argument that sheldon was speaking for mo wilks as well

Ok so in a year or two let Sheldon go on the open market and try to get a $100 million deal.  By May his agent will be begging us to franchise tag him.

[pointman]

3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Not really. 1/3 of those sacks came when we were already up by three TDs (3 of them coming in 1 game vs Mariota who wasn't engineering a 3-TD comeback at that point anyway). Those sacks helped Mo, but didn't really help the Jets. 

Damn good player but not nearly worth a shot at a solution at QB. We're going to need all the chances we can get. I don't think they give up a pair of 1's for Mo, but maybe a 1 and a 3. Or a 1 and a conditional 4th that can become a 3 or a 2 for reaching certain sack milestones, or for achieving something else, in 2016.

Stud player that he is, I can't see anyone giving up a pair of 1's and all that $$$ for Mo. 

 

I trade him in a second for a 1 and a 2. Two number 1's??? OMG. I'll throw in Demario and Cromartie.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, pointman said:

 

I trade him in a second for a 1 and a 2. Two number 1's??? OMG. I'll throw in Demario and Cromartie.

Two #1's I'd throw in you. And Mrs. Sperm.

[pointman]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Two #1's I'd throw in you. And Mrs. Sperm.

Remember me when I'm gone. Go Jets.