Why can't we find an outside linebacker?

[UnitedWhofans]

3 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

The Jets barely hit more than they missed on defensive lineman.

Well let's see:

Hits:

Wilkerson, Richardson, Williams (early but graded well this year)

Miss:

Coples, Gholston.

So we hit on 3 of 5. Not a horrible percentage. Lions hit on 1 of 4 WRS I think

Plus the Lions drafted their receivers really high, so they missed out on more players.

[flgreen]

9 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

He wasn't intended as an edge rusher. He was intended to be a defensive lineman and then they drafted Sheldon Richardson and tried to bump him to outside linebacker. Then, when they released him, they bumped Sheldon to OLB because they still don't have anyone to fill the position adequately. I'm all for BPA, but at some point you have to pass on the BPA DE to address other needs. The Jets drafting of defensive lineman in the first round was almost as bad as what the Lions did with wide receivers.

Coples was a poor fit for the 3-4 scheme.    He had 24 sacks at NC.  He was a 4-3 pass rusher, Just didn't fit in a 3-4 scheme.

 

Moving Richardson to OLB was even crazier then Coples.  He only had 6  sacks in two  years at MO

[Mainejet]

They've been trying now for a very long time to no avail. Yes, it started with Vernon Gholston. Once it was noticeable Gholston was a bust. They got Calvin Pace in free agency. Then, remember Quinton Coples? That Rex Ryan's attempt at transforming a DL into a rush linebacker. It didn't work out for Todd Bowles and it's obvious to me that Rex knew it wasn't working either. After Coples was cut, Rex never even gave Coples a tryout.

But, YES, IMO, this is the missing piece to this defense. If this defense gets a guy even half as good as Von Miller, they will automatically leap into the stratosphere.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Mainejet said:

They've been trying now for a very long time to no avail. Yes, it started with Vernon Gholston. Once it was noticeable Gholston was a bust. They got Calvin Pace in free agency. Then, remember Quinton Coples? That Rex Ryan's attempt at transforming a DL into a rush linebacker. It didn't work out for Todd Bowles and it's obvious to me that Rex knew it wasn't working either. After Coples was cut, Rex never even gave Coples a tryout.

But, YES, IMO, this is the missing piece to this defense. If this defense gets a guy even half as good as Von Miller, they will automatically leap into the stratosphere.

I absolutely agree with you. And it's great to know that Bowles knows the same thing. He flat out admitted it.

[JustInFudge]

8 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

But Abe was a DL not a LB.

BTW, if last night is anything to go by, you dont need a good QB to win the SB

Meh, semantics. He's basically the exact same size as Miller.  In a 4-3, he's DE, like Miller.  In a 3-4, he's an OLB.  

Defense wins championships but you need a QB to get you there. 

[CrazyCarl40]

10 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Well let's see:

Hits:

Wilkerson, Richardson, Williams (early but graded well this year)

Miss:

Coples, Gholston.

So we hit on 3 of 5. Not a horrible percentage. Lions hit on 1 of 4 WRS I think

Plus the Lions drafted their receivers really high, so they missed out on more players.

You obviously don't remember Dewayne Robertson and Dorian Boose.

9 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Coples was a poor fit for the 3-4 scheme.    He had 24 sacks at NC.  He was a 4-3 pass rusher, Just didn't fit in a 3-4 scheme.

 

Moving Richardson to OLB was even crazier then Coples.  He only had 6  sacks in two  years at MO

Agreed. Square pegs and round holes.

[UnitedWhofans]

8 minutes ago, JiF said:

Meh, semantics. He's basically the exact same size as Miller.  In a 4-3, he's DE, like Miller.  In a 3-4, he's an OLB.  

Defense wins championships but you need a QB to get you there. 

defintely

[Beerfish]

7 hours ago, SayNoToDMC said:

I laughed, I cried..... the laughing was probably the drugs.

 

Why the **** can't we find a rush linebacker? We've been talking about this since Mangini.  We rolled with Calvin Pace for 10 years. Even ******* Sanchez was better then was Manning tonight.

1)  We did his name was Vernon gholston.

2) We never bothered to look after that because our dumb ass coaches and front offices like steady hold the fort guys that know that offense.

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

You obviously don't remember Dewayne Robertson and Dorian Boose.

Agreed. Square pegs and round holes.

I'm talking post Abe

[JustInFudge]

6 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Yeah but you're forgetting about the cap space he saved and how the potential was there, because two first round picks, to land a franchise QB, a pass rusher, and an OL. Basically, that's ignorant I think you're being ignorant. Abraham didn't dominate every snap of every game like my new favorite player, Von Miller, did that one time I saw him yesterday. Plus, what kind of OL did Abraham beat? Miller beat up on Michael Oher and Mike Remmers, Super Bowl caliber OTs. Do you think Abe could do that?

Those savings and that draft pick basically threw open the doors of opportunity for the Jets, who were loaded with DE talent like Shaun Ellis and Bryant Thomas at the time. So if you're going to criticize the Jets for giving up Abe, at least think about it.

I thought about it.  It was stupid.  They got 1, 1st round pick and landed a Center because smart teams take Centers in the first round.  

Pass rush > Blocking even as great as Mangold has been.  In the long run, it didnt matter because its the Jets but it was stupid.

I think Abe could beat anyone.  He's 12th all time on the sacks list, ahead of Lawrence Taylor.  And I might be wrong but I think he has the most strip sacks in the history of the league (dont quote me unless I'm right).  I think that's pretty neat, more neat than blocking. 

[joewilly12]

The Jets always seem to draft the "what if" guys Gholston,Coples to name a few and try to make them something they arent wasting a valuable draft pick. 

[SenorGato]

10 minutes ago, JiF said:

I thought about it.  It was stupid.  They got 1, 1st round pick and landed a Center because smart teams take Centers in the first round.  

Pass rush > Blocking even as great as Mangold has been.  In the long run, it didnt matter because its the Jets but it was stupid.

I think Abe could beat anyone.  He's 12th all time on the sacks list, ahead of Lawrence Taylor.  And I might be wrong but I think he has the most strip sacks in the history of the league (dont quote me unless I'm right).  I think that's pretty neat, more neat than blocking. 

What about the money saved? I bet Woody was able to buy some land to create jobs with with that money. What would Abe have done with it besides prevent the Jets from being able to buy a QB, his replacement, or an OL? It's not like the Jets didn't have replacements, the team had multiple cheaper first round pass rushers. Sure they weren't as good, but think about the savings and how Abraham would disappear in games between injuries. 

-------

How to solve this LB thing in the draft:

The Jets need to pick from the pool of pass rushing draft prospects who weigh ~250+, jump high, jump far, run a top 3 cone, and don't sh*t the bed in the 40.

If they want a different kind of LB - one to replace Davis - then hopefully it's a cover oriented guy like Su'a Cravens. I just think that guy is going to be a beast in the NFL.

[Beerfish]

14 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

The Jets always seem to draft the "what if" guys Gholston,Coples to name a few and try to make them something they arent wasting a valuable draft pick. 

Gholston was supposed to be the guy and his pathetic play set the team back a number of years.  All our D was missing in that era was a pass rushing olb that would take it from good to great and the guy flopped.  Coples never was an olb from day one, the team idiotically shoe horned him into that spot.

[Joejet]

59 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Yeah but you're forgetting about the cap space he saved and how the potential was there, because two first round picks, to land a franchise QB, a pass rusher, and an OL. Basically, that's ignorant I think you're being ignorant. Abraham didn't dominate every snap of every game like my new favorite player, Von Miller, did that one time I saw him yesterday. Plus, what kind of OL did Abraham beat? Miller beat up on Michael Oher and Mike Remmers, Super Bowl caliber OTs. Do you think Abe could do that?

Those savings and that draft pick basically threw open the doors of opportunity for the Jets, who were loaded with DE talent like Shaun Ellis and Bryant Thomas at the time. So if you're going to criticize the Jets for giving up Abe, at least think about it.

Not looking to start a fight or hijack this thread but isn't this the total opposite of your Mo Wilk argument over a number of pages in a different thread?

[Paradis]

It's a difficult position to project when you a run an odd-ball 3-4 like we have for most of the last decade. Finding a genuine pass rusher is tough enough, finding one that finds the "elusive" jack/joker role as a 3-4 OLB is even tougher -- add in the mix that fewer college teams stand their underized DEs up like we would in a 3-4 and you're left with your d*ck in your hand watching Von Miller. 

Truth is, there's not many good pass rushers, and finding them is like a franchise QB. Difficult, and they often don't hit the FA market. 

Personally -- If I was the JETS GM -- i would spend to sign guys like Irvin/Perry in FA, no matter the costs. Players like Snacks, Ivory, Powell etc are a dime a dozen to draft. Don't need to spend money on them. Too hard to hit on a OLB in the draft. Just sign proven guys, and draft the rolodex positions. 

[drdetroit]

Mauldin had a better season than Dupree and Gregory who were both rated way higher. If you count Fowler that's three top 10 rated OLB's Mauldin outplayed.

 

Very tricky to evaluate edge rushers.

 

[drdetroit]

1 hour ago, UnitedWhofans said:

But Abe was a DL not a LB.

BTW, if last night is anything to go by, you dont need a good QB to win the SB

All you need is the leagues best defense, two all pro edge rushers and the refs kissing your ass every play.

[UnitedWhofans]

2 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Mauldin had a better season than Dupree and Gregory who were both rated way higher. If you count Fowler that's three top 10 rated OLB's Mauldin outplayed.

 

Very tricky to evaluate edge rushers.

 

Mauldin's a good player

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, drdetroit said:

All you need is the leagues best defense, two all pro edge rushers and the refs kissing your ass every play.

What do you mean by the last comment. I thought the refs did an okay job last night. I feel they blew the first catch call, but upon review, it was close

[drdetroit]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

What do you mean by the last comment. I thought the refs did an okay job last night. I feel they blew the first catch call, but upon review, it was close

They sucked off the Broncos any chance last night.  Oh we saw a defensive holding in the secondary on 3rd down -- psych!

[Paradis]

1 minute ago, drdetroit said:

Mauldin had a better season than Dupree and Gregory who were both rated way higher. If you count Fowler that's three top 10 rated OLB's Mauldin outplayed.

 

Very tricky to evaluate edge rushers.

 

If you listened to half the harpies on here last year - they'd have told you that VIC BEASLEY and BUD DUPREE were the Roman mythical brothers Romulus and Remus incarnate... when it all was said and done, Dupree (26 tckls, 4 sacks) barely kept up with his alumni brethren Z. Smith (30 tckls, 5.5 sacks) - a third round pick for the ravens. Who could have predicted that? Well I did, but that's besides the point. The "elite" pass rushers at the top of the draft are some of the riskiest picks in the draft. 

Unless you're looking at Miller caliber talent (like Jack this year), then I like my LBs in the middle rounds, or as provent FAs.

[drdetroit]

2 minutes ago, Paradis said:

If you listened to half the harpies on here last year - they'd have told you that VIC BEASLEY and BUD DUPREE were the Roman mythical brothers Romulus and Remus incarnate... when it all was said and done, Dupree (26 tckls, 4 sacks) barely kept up with his alumni brethren Z. Smith (30 tckls, 5.5 sacks) - a third round pick for the ravens. Who could have predicted that? Well I did, but that's besides the point. The "elite" pass rushers at the top of the draft are some of the riskiest picks in the draft. 

Unless you're looking at Miller caliber talent (like Jack this year), then I like my LBs in the middle rounds, or as provent FAs.

Everyone thinks they know everything when it comes to evaluating edge rushing OLB's.  Randy Gregory has 0.0 sacks so far in the NFL and people were jizzing on him last April.

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Everyone thinks they know everything when it comes to evaluating edge rushing OLB's.  Randy Gregory has 0.0 sacks so far in the NFL and people were jizzing on him last April.

They were jizzing on him?