Ryan Fitzpatrick: MERGED

[Villain The Foe]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So the 2016 Jets, with improvements at every position of need, should be even better then, talent-wise, right?

Excellent, nice to see some folks aren't preemptively using the "he had no talent around him" argument for Geno in 2016.  

Cant say that about a season where he's had talent around him. 

 

Atleast that beats the people who love to ignore the obvious, such as 2013/14. 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

13 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

The 2014 team wasnt the same as the 2015 team. Not the same coaching staff, not the same front office not the philosophy, not the same offense, not the same defense, not the same collection of talent etc, etc.

So basically unless you have both quarterbacks run the same plays with the same teammates against the same defenses we throw the numbers out the window and go with word vomit and feelings. Super.

[joewilly12]

Let’s start with the obvious stuff. Geno’s 2013 receivers were historically bad. Jeremy Kerley, Jeff Cumberland, Stephen Hill, Santonio Holmes, David Nelson–that’s a rough group. The crazy thing? It’s actually worse than it sounds. Not a single one of those receivers played the whole season. Not only did Smith get dealt a terrible hand, the dealer forgot to give him all of his cards.

[flgreen]

9 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Technically, Geno didnt start the game so his record is 0-0.  2ndly, if you project his numbers from that Oakland game he'd have a better season statisically than Ryan Fitzpatrick. 

And the reason why we missed the playoffs is because we lost to the Texans 3rd string QB and got swept by the Bills. I dont recall Geno starting in any of those games. 

 

 

Oh good.  I love projections because they are always so accurate.    So Fitz started the game 4-5 for 46 yards, if we project that for the whole season he would have been 450-562 5,170 yards.  WOW, sign me up  

[Villain The Foe]

12 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

I know, but when one deals with certain folk, you can't leave too much wiggle room .

You did and I took it .

Example : Warfish knows Decker was hurt for the better part of the year starting with the 2nd half of the 2 game when the Jets had the big lead and lost it. He also knows that Decker was in and out of the lineup due to his injury making him a shell of himself until late in the year .  That didn't stop him from stating that Decker started 15 games .

Folks will use whatever they have to just to prove what ever point they want .  

Well, not all of us are as simple as, for example Warfish (hehe) who thinks that responding with Mike Glennon statements in a conversation that has nothing to do with Mike Glennon is somehow hurting me down to my soul! 

 

Sometimes, its better to simply let them know "your response means nothing" then when they respond dont even bother to read it. 10X's out of 10 is the same nonsense. Arguing against logic like that means that its "your fault" for even entertaining it.  

 

And sometimes, that extra wiggle room is like rope and a chair. Sometimes you should just sit back and watch how they use it lol. 

[Tinstar]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So the 2016 Jets, with improvements at every position of need, should be even better then, talent-wise, right?

Excellent, nice to see some folks aren't preemptively using the "he had no talent around him" argument for Geno in 2016.  

Does the difference in the schedule play any part in your scenario. ? Variables make up what happens during a season. 

The Jets had 1 game to win in 2015 to make the playoffs . Our defense failed and our QB failed.

That is all .

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Tinstar said:

Does the difference in the schedule play any part in your scenario. ? Variables make up what happens during a season. 

The Jets had 1 game to win in 2015 to make the playoffs . Our defense failed and our QB failed.

That is all .

Mainly the QB failed 3 INTs in a row 

The defense was tired from being on the field all game and without a legitimate pass rush

[flgreen]

15 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Thats because our starting QB got a boo boo and had to leave the game all against a very weak team with Raiders. 

Fitz's 3 INTS in a row are why we missed the playoffs. 

Yeah, what a puss.

The boo boo was torn ligaments in his thumb that required surgery.  Problem was his back up sucked so bad that Fitzpatrick had to play the next game with it.

[Villain The Foe]

6 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Let’s start with the obvious stuff. Geno’s 2013 receivers were historically bad. Jeremy Kerley, Jeff Cumberland, Stephen Hill, Santonio Holmes, David Nelson–that’s a rough group. The crazy thing? It’s actually worse than it sounds. Not a single one of those receivers played the whole season. Not only did Smith get dealt a terrible hand, the dealer forgot to give him all of his cards.

I forget who but someone around here actually compared the talent of the 2015 Jets to the 2014 Jets and tried to make the conclusion that the teams were virtually the same. 

 

I laughed my ass off. 

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, flgreen said:

Yeah, what a puss.

The boo boo was torn ligaments in his thumb that required surgery.  Problem was his back up sucked so bad that Fitzpatrick had to play the next game with it.

The backup who had zero first team reps did pretty damn good considering the circumstances. 

[Villain The Foe]

15 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Decker was hurt the injury lingered all season Gates and Nelson were the WR corps 

Not to mention how this very forum was "so pissed" that we paid Decker that amount of money stating "How can we pay him that much money and he's not even a #1 WR. We could have just waited and got Desean Jackson". Remember that? lol

 

Now today in order to make Geno look bad, Decker is like the "best talent ever" and they dont even speak about his leg injury that he dealt with all year. 

 

 

[slats]

54 minutes ago, Warfish said:

MM, who in his long career averaged fielding the 9th rated Offense.....till he got to the Jets.  A legit NFL Offensive guy.  Till he got here.

Lol. He coached #1 & 2 offenses in San Francisco with Steve young, and then when he didn't have Young they plummeted from #1 to #22. Then as a head coach with the Lions, he was #27 and #31. 

Oh sure, he had a number of good years working under Andy Reid in Philly. I doubt Andy had anything to do with the offense there. Just like Andy wanted nothing to do with Marty when he headed out to KC. 

[Villain The Foe]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

Lol. He coached #1 & 2 offenses in San Francisco with Steve young, and then when he didn't have Young they plummeted from #1 to #22. Then as a head coach with the Lions, he was #27 and #31. 

Oh sure, he had a number of good years working under Andy Reid in Philly. I doubt Andy had anything to do with the offense there. Just like Andy wanted nothing to do with Marty when he headed out to KC. 

And MM hasnt done anything relevant since he was jettisoned from the Reid team. 

[Rangers9]

33 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

The 2014 team wasnt the same as the 2015 team. Not the same coaching staff, not the same front office not the philosophy, not the same offense, not the same defense, not the same collection of talent etc, etc.

Besides, you never answered my question. I didnt ask you "what did some people think". I asked you what year which year was Geno on a playoff caliber football team as a starter. You asked a similar question with Fitz...thinking that you had something. The problem is the 2015 Jets was one of the most talented group of players the Jets have ever had. Put that 2015 team up against any team the past 20 years the closest you'll get is during the Mark Sanchez era. Which, funny enough, went to the AFC championship....twice. 

I could also ask you when have we seen such an easy schedule like we did in 2015 the past 20 years. You'd be hard pressed to tell me a season that was that easy in respect to "strength of schedule". 

So, Fitz had the easiest schedule and arguably the most talented team in over 2 decades and did what exactly? 

Geno meanwhile, just a year BEFORE Macc spent $150,000,000 dollars had one of the least talented teams the Jets have ever fielded the past 20 years. So he went 4-12. It was a reflection of the lack of talent. 

You don't think the starting Qb was a big part of that turnaround. I guess you don't since you hate the guy. 

[Villain The Foe]

4 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

You don't think the starting Qb was a big part of that turnaround. I guess you don't since you hate the guy. 

Im not answering any of your questions until you first answer my question. You asked a question and it was answered. And I know you accept it because you havent attempted to argue against it. So I will ask you again, which one of those Jets teams that Geno started for was a Playoff caliber team? 2013 or 2014?

 

Please, answer the question

[Villain The Foe]

@joewilly12 I never seen a simple question take over an hour to be answered. Sorry, STILL to not be answered. 

 

Could this be an attempt to damage control???? lol.

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

@joewilly12 I never seen a simple question take over an hour to be answered. Sorry, STILL to not be answered. 

 

Could this be an attempt to damage control???? lol.

Simple answer they hate Geno Smith 

[Villain The Foe]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

Simple answer they hate Geno Smith 

Im still waiting for that answer by the way! lol. 

[Sperm Edwards]

55 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Yep.  Believe he was 0-1. Lost to a team with a losing record. Probably the reason the Jets missed the play offs

You really think we were winning that Raiders game with Fitzpatrick? 

[j4jets]

44 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Technically, Geno didnt start the game so his record is 0-0.  2ndly, if you project his numbers from that Oakland game he'd have a better season statisically than Ryan Fitzpatrick. 

And the reason why we missed the playoffs is because we lost to the Texans 3rd string QB and got swept by the Bills. I dont recall Geno starting in any of those games. 

 

 

"Let me see your shoe."

"Cause I have never seen anyone put their foot that far up a guy's ***."

[Villain The Foe]

2 minutes ago, j4jets said:

"Let me see your shoe."

"Cause I have never seen anyone put their foot that far up a guy's ***."

lol.

[EM31]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You really think we were winning that Raiders game with Fitzpatrick? 

It is no less intellectually dishonest than many/most of the arguments being presented on the other side.

What the coaching staff really feels about Geno can be discerned pretty easily by how they treated him AFTER the issues with his jaw.  If Gen really was killing it on the practice field (before OR after) then I think we would have seen a very different approach by the front office towards him.  As it is I think Geno needs to send Fitz a Rolex or something substantial because he is going to get another crack at being a starting NFL QB as a result of the negotiating stance taken by Fitzpatrick. 

[Larz]

so which QB would have taken the jets further last season, pennington or sanchez ?

[j4jets]

34 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Oh good.  I love projections because they are always so accurate.    So Fitz started the game 4-5 for 46 yards, if we project that for the whole season he would have been 450-562 5,170 yards.  WOW, sign me up  

Let's project Fitz stats from the last quarter of the last game. Yeah, even better. It's only fair if we compare both players' latest stats, right?

[ljr]

42 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Technically, Geno didnt start the game so his record is 0-0.  2ndly, if you project his numbers from that Oakland game he'd have a better season statisically than Ryan Fitzpatrick. 

And the reason why we missed the playoffs is because we lost to the Texans 3rd string QB and got swept by the Bills. I dont recall Geno starting in any of those games. 

 

 

Interestingly enough NFL network just showed is showing 2015 week 8 highlights & as I read this post they showing us down 2 TD's with like 6 minutes left ... 4th & 3 ... Oak got pressure up the middle & Geno completely $h*t the bed ... Running about 10 yards backwards ... Falling off his back foot when he threw it ... And dumped it into the turf with no Jets players anywhere on the screen ... Completely WTF moment & emblematic of what we can expect from Geno

[j4jets]

1 minute ago, Larz said:

so which QB would have taken the jets further last season, pennington or sanchez ?

Brad Smith

[Rangers9]

21 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Im not answering any of your questions until you first answer my question. You asked a question and it was answered. And I know you accept it because you havent attempted to argue against it. So I will ask you again, which one of those Jets teams that Geno started for was a Playoff caliber team? 2013 or 2014?

 

Please, answer the question

I don't think either one was going into the season. Same goes for 2015. Going into the season nobody predicted us to win 10 games. You're saying this after the fact. A key reason for that success was Fitz.

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, ljr said:

Interestingly enough NFL network just showed is showing 2015 week 8 highlights & as I read this post they showing us down 2 TD's with like 6 minutes left ... 4th & 3 ... Oak got pressure up the middle & Geno completely $h*t the bed ... Running about 10 yards backwards ... Falling off his back foot when he threw it ... And dumped it into the turf with no Jets players anywhere on the screen ... Completely WTF moment & emblematic of what we can expect from Geno

Was about to post this. The Jets defense was awful that day, but Oaklands wasnt much better. The Jets had a legit  comeback opportunity there, but  once Geno took that sack where he ran out of bounds and took his sweet ass time, it ended pretty much any hope. The Jets probably dont win but they clearly would have had a much better shot with Fitz.

[Villain The Foe]

2 minutes ago, ljr said:

Interestingly enough NFL network just showed is showing 2015 week 8 highlights & as I read this post they showing us down 2 TD's with like 6 minutes left ... 4th & 3 ... Oak got pressure up the middle & Geno completely $h*t the bed ... Running about 10 yards backwards ... Falling off his back foot when he threw it ... And dumped it into the turf with no Jets players anywhere on the screen ... Completely WTF moment & emblematic of what we can expect from Geno

Interestingly enough the reason why the Raiders were up 2 TD's with 6 minutes left is because the Jets gave up 34 points in the game. 

 

I hope thats not what we expect from the defense this year. 

 

As for Geno, I'll give him a pass. He recently got back to the team and had zero chemistry with the 1's and came into the game cold. 

[ljr]

4 minutes ago, ljr said:

Interestingly enough NFL network just showed is showing 2015 week 8 highlights & as I read this post they showing us down 2 TD's with like 6 minutes left ... 4th & 3 ... Oak got pressure up the middle & Geno completely $h*t the bed ... Running about 10 yards backwards ... Falling off his back foot when he threw it ... And dumped it into the turf with no Jets players anywhere on the screen ... Completely WTF moment & emblematic of what we can expect from Geno

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA ... Now they just showed 3rd & 2 with 4 minutes left ... He's flushed out of the pocket ... Debates about trying to run for it ... Then chickens out when an Oak safety comes forward ... Runs backwards out of bounds so it's now 4th & 8 .... AND the clock continues to run because he was running backwards ... OMG ridiculous ! 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

MM, who in his long career averaged fielding the 9th rated Offense.....till he got to the Jets.  A legit NFL Offensive guy.  Till he got here.

Every one of those seasons with McNabb and Andy Ried. 

The jets proved where the talent came from in that trio. 

You actual have to do a little more than read and rip Geno

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Decker, Ivory, Powell, Amaro, Harvn (for half the year), Kerley.

Marshall, the only material difference between 2014 and 2015.

But sure, "no weapons".  

It's amazing at time how little you understand about the game.  Decker was injured, makes no difference.  He was alone, so.  Harvin sucks, yeah but you know his name.  He played a handful of games.  

Love the thought that a 1,500 yard, 100 catch true #1 WR is no big difference to an offense.  Think the only difference between 14 & 15 is Marshall?  you would have a hard time convincing me that you believe that.  

[Villain The Foe]

41 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

I don't think either one was going into the season. Same goes for 2015. Going into the season nobody predicted us to win 10 games. You're saying this after the fact. A key reason for that success was Fitz.

It doesnt matter what people predict. People didnt predict the Jets were to make the playoffs or make it to the AFCCG in 2009 with a rookie QB, nor did they again in 2010. 

 

People's predicitons are meaningless to this argument. We're talking about bonafide talent here. And at the end of the day Fitzpatrick had a team that was infused with $150 million dollars worth of talent and he missed the playoffs. Geno didnt have that luxury. Geno was the QB when the team was getting purged in order to acquire that $150 million remember? 

 

And for the record, Decker had multiple years in Denver as a 1000 yard rec. and Brandon Marshall holds the record for the most 1000 yard seasons for different teams. So these guys already had a name for themselves as being productive. Decker was always been known as one of the best #2 WR's yet when Geno had hit he was the Jets #1 receiver AND was injured the entire season, yet was 40 yards away from having an 1000 yard season even with missing games. The Jets got a bonafide #1 receiver last year in Marshal. Geno never had that. Last year Decker was finally put in his natural position and now we have a bonafide #2 WR. Geno never had that. Last year we paid for a Bonafide shut down corner in Revis. Geno never had Revis. We got arguably the best slot corner in the game in Skrine, Geno never had that. We got a Head Coach that knew offense was important so he got an offensive guy in Chan Gailey. Geno never had that, he had Marty Morningwhatever. 

 

The TALENT on that team was playoff caliber. To even pretend like it wasnt is a joke. And thats not even taking into account the schedule. All of the talent we got last year was proven talent, yet we want to give the guy who's "entire career looks NOTHING like the season he had" the credit? Maybe Fitz season was due to the fact of the talent around him. Nothing wrong with that....but we should stop acting like having talent around you doesnt help. 

[Rangers9]

2 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

It doesnt matter what people predict. People didnt predict the Jets were to make the playoffs or make it to the AFCCG in 2009 with a rookie QB, nor did they again in 2010. 

 

People's predicitons are meaningless to this argument. We're talking about bonafide talent here. And at the end of the day Fitzpatrick had a team that was infused with $150 million dollars worth of talent and he missed the playoffs. Geno didnt have that luxury. Geno was the QB when the team was getting purged in order to acquire that $150 million remember? 

 

And for the record. Decker had multiple years in Denver as a 1000 yard rusher and Brandon Marshall holds the record for the most 1000 yard seasons for different teams. So these are guys already had a name for themselves as being productive. Decker was always known as a #2 WR yet when Geno had hit he was the Jets #1 receiver AND was injured the entire season, yet was 40 yards away from having an 1000 yard season even with missing games. The Jets got a bonafide #1 receiver last year in Marshal. Geno never had that. Last year we paid for a Bonafide shut down corner in Revis. Geno never had Revis. We got arguably the best slot corner in the game in Skrine, Geno never had that. We got a Head Coach that new offense was important so he got an offensive guy in Chan Gailey. Geno never had that, he has Marty Morningwhatever. 

 

The TALENT on that team was playoff caliber. To even pretend like it wasnt is a joke. And thats not even taking into account the schedule. All of the talent we got last year was proven talent, yet we want to give the guy who's "entire career looks NOTHING like the season he had" the credit? Maybe his season was due to the fact of the talent around him. Nothing wrong with that....but we should stop acting like having talent around you doesnt help. 

The best transaction the Jets in '15 made overall and per dollar was obtaining Fitz. He was the starting Qb. And one of the key reasons the team was 10-6. But putting money into a franchise doesn't guarantee success. And going up six games is highly significant. There is no way you can make a case for Geno over Fitz. It's a joke to even compare them.

[PatsFanTX]

It doesnt matter what people predict. People didnt predict the Jets were to make the playoffs or make it to the AFCCG in 2009 with a rookie QB, nor did they again in 2010. 

 

People's predicitons are meaningless to this argument. We're talking about bonafide talent here. And at the end of the day Fitzpatrick had a team that was infused with $150 million dollars worth of talent and he missed the playoffs. Geno didnt have that luxury. Geno was the QB when the team was getting purged in order to acquire that $150 million remember? 

 

And for the record. Decker had multiple years in Denver as a 1000 yard rusher and Brandon Marshall holds the record for the most 1000 yard seasons for different teams. So these are guys already had a name for themselves as being productive. Decker was always been known as one of the best #2 WR's yet when Geno had hit he was the Jets #1 receiver AND was injured the entire season, yet was 40 yards away from having an 1000 yard season even with missing games. The Jets got a bonafide #1 receiver last year in Marshal. Geno never had that. Last year Decker was finally put in his natural position and now we have a bonafide #2 WR. Geno never had that. Last year we paid for a Bonafide shut down corner in Revis. Geno never had Revis. We got arguably the best slot corner in the game in Skrine, Geno never had that. We got a Head Coach that knew offense was important so he got an offensive guy in Chan Gailey. Geno never had that, he had Marty Morningwhatever. 

 

The TALENT on that team was playoff caliber. To even pretend like it wasnt is a joke. And thats not even taking into account the schedule. All of the talent we got last year was proven talent, yet we want to give the guy who's "entire career looks NOTHING like the season he had" the credit? Maybe Fitz season was due to the fact of the talent around him. Nothing wrong with that....but we should stop acting like having talent around you doesnt help. 

Revis is a bonafide shut down corner?

I guess Sammy Watkins and DeAndre Hopkins failed to get that memo.