Which of these NY Jets QB seasons was the best?

[nyjunc]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

I think it didn't get the love just because there were other Jets QBs with better seasons.

Yes, his stats look closer to Alex Smith with a lower completion percentage by today's standards, but it wasn't uncommon for someone to lead the league in TDs with under 30. But it still wasn't the best season ever by a Jets QB. 

he threw away our 1967 season, in 1968 obviously they won the SB but they cut his attempts down drastically after he had early INT issues.

 

after 5 games in 1968 we were 3-2(including losing to Buffalo who wouldn't win another game) and Joe had attempted 172 passes(34.4 per game) w/ 12 INTs.  The final 9 games we went 8-1 and Joe attempted 208 passes(22.1 per game) w/ 5 INTs.

[nyjunc]

7 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Fitz is probably going to struggle against the Seahawks, but then again most QB's do. The overreaction to an average QB with an average arm against a great defense will be funny.

What Fitz generally does well is he takes advantage of poor defenses(which is a good thing). We tend to forget about the bad QB's who cant take advantage of anything, while over analyzing the average ones who do, but struggle against the top defenses. The Jets need their defense and special teams to be improved to make up for the tougher schedule this year.

I agree with you.  I think our D is going to be as good as any we have had this year and that will be the difference in our season.

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, nyjunc said:

he threw away our 1967 season, in 1968 obviously they won the SB but they cut his attempts down drastically after he had early INT issues.

 

after 5 games in 1968 we were 3-2(including losing to Buffalo who wouldn't win another game) and Joe had attempted 172 passes(34.4 per game) w/ 12 INTs.  The final 9 games we went 8-1 and Joe attempted 208 passes(22.1 per game) w/ 5 INTs.

I was referring to O'Brien, not Namath.

[New York Mick]

1 hour ago, slats said:

So can I assume that you're not very impressed when a single Jets passing record is broken in a season. 

It's ******* embarrassing 

[nyjunc]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

I was referring to O'Brien, not Namath.

sorry.

 

as far as O'Brien, he had a good 1985.  led us to 11 wins but this notion that the OL was awful is false, he held onto the ball too long in most cases b/c he was always looking for the big play.  he made a ton of big plays down the field that year but he was terrible in the playoff loss(I know he got hurt) and generally wasn't as good as the passer rating would suggest.

[carlito1171]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

I agree with you.  I think our D is going to be as good as any we have had this year and that will be the difference in our season.

I really think the defense is gonna be super filthy this year...so much so I've stopped arguing about the QB situation...as long as we can move the chains consistently I don't think it's gonna matter much who's under center btwn Fitz and Geno...

[Jetdawgg]

31 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

he got sacked 62 times b/c he held onto the ball too long always looking for the big play and never throwing it away thus keeping his comp % up.  he had a very good year but he never won a single playoff game for us, he is vastly overrated.

Vinny had a 3-0 lead at the half.  it became 10-0 after we blocked a punt and got the ball on the Den 1 yd line.

 

Our D's blew both the 1998 and 2009 title games.  17-13 was shaky b/c the D blew a double digit lead at the end of the 2nd qtr.

 

2010 was our best shot at a SB, the only AFC Championship Game we have ever had a chance in late in the game.

Absolutely but as good as Toon and walker were none were like Brandon Marshall and remember this is the pass happy era where all the rules favor the offenses.

I believe he was 13-1 as a starter in the reg season, amazing year.  I have never seen anything close from a Jets QB

IMO Al Toon was a better deep threat than Brandon Marshall. I really think that you miss the grace, strength, speed and power this man had. Nothing against Marshall but Al Toon was a pleasure to watch and at least as difficult to guard in an era unlike today.

 

[nyjunc]

26 minutes ago, Jetdawgg said:

IMO Al Toon was a better deep threat than Brandon Marshall. I really think that you miss the grace, strength, speed and power this man had. Nothing against Marshall but Al Toon was a pleasure to watch and at least as difficult to guard in an era unlike today.

 

I love Al, one of my all time favorites and I feel had he not been hung out to dry by O'Brien and suffered so many concussions he could have been a hall of famer but he's not Brandon Marshall.  I agree he's underrated but disagree he's as good or better than Marshall.  In Marshall's 3 best TD seasons he had 37 TDs, in Toon's entire career(8 seasons) he had 31 TDs.

[NYs Stepchild]

18 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Anybody who doesn't say O'Brien is seriously underestimating how long ago 1985 was in football years.

I agree it's close between Vinny and Kenny. Probably a better year from O'Brien, but the playoff success pushes Vinny over the top. 

What a great start to that year only to fall apart. Thank Joe Walton for that one. 

[Jetdawgg]

18 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I love Al, one of my all time favorites and I feel had he not been hung out to dry by O'Brien and suffered so many concussions he could have been a hall of famer but he's not Brandon Marshall.  I agree he's underrated but disagree he's as good or better than Marshall.  In Marshall's 3 best TD seasons he had 37 TDs, in Toon's entire career(8 seasons) he had 31 TDs.

The hitting allowed and the grabbing allowed the make a great deal of difference. Al Toon took some very hard shots as a NY Jets WR. Some of them are not allowed today. You are entitled to your opinion.

[NYs Stepchild]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

sorry.

 

as far as O'Brien, he had a good 1985.  led us to 11 wins but this notion that the OL was awful is false, he held onto the ball too long in most cases b/c he was always looking for the big play.  he made a ton of big plays down the field that year but he was terrible in the playoff loss(I know he got hurt) and generally wasn't as good as the passer rating would suggest.

The Oline was okay until injuries, and Walton forcing guys to play through them, took their toll. 

[greenwichjetfan]

18 hours ago, slats said:

Thought of including him, but he also threw 22 interceptions that year, and failed to make the playoffs. 

I think the reason you didn't include him is because regardless of the thread title, you created this thread to undermine Fitz by displaying his Jets-record breaking stats, and then comparing it to QBs who didn't break records but made the playoffs. 

Favre would have foiled your pursuit of crushing Fitz. 

I'll say it again: Any discussion of best Jets QB seasons without mention of Favre is incomplete at best, and purely ignorant at worst. Even with his 22 ints and torn bicep that led to finishing 1-4 that year, he's still in the discussion. 

Anyway, carry on with your agenda. 

[greenwichjetfan]

nycjunc:

Favre, Peyton, Eli, Coughlin, everyone on the Pats except Brady all suck and are undeserving of any praise. They don't belong in the HoF. 
Brady, Sanchez, Chad P, Tony Dungy: greatest ever and all deserve the HoF.

 

[nyjunc]

31 minutes ago, Jetdawgg said:

The hitting allowed and the grabbing allowed the make a great deal of difference. Al Toon took some very hard shots as a NY Jets WR. Some of them are not allowed today. You are entitled to your opinion.

many of those shots he was set up for by poor throws and despite rules changes players are bigger, stronger, faster so they are still getting pounded.

 

of course we are allowed to disagree, that is what makes boards fun.

27 minutes ago, NYs Stepchild said:

The Oline was okay until injuries, and Walton forcing guys to play through them, took their toll. 

the OL was good, the sack #s were a reflection of the QB.

11 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I think the reason you didn't include him is because regardless of the thread title, you created this thread to undermine Fitz by displaying his Jets-record breaking stats, and then comparing it to QBs who didn't break records but made the playoffs. 

Favre would have foiled your pursuit of crushing Fitz. 

I'll say it again: Any discussion of best Jets QB seasons without mention of Favre is incomplete at best, and purely ignorant at worst. Even with his 22 ints and torn bicep that led to finishing 1-4 that year, he's still in the discussion. 

Anyway, carry on with your agenda. 

Favre belongs nowhere near a greatest season in jets history list.  he was terrible the majority of that season including throwing it away the final month but some fans are impressed by meaningless fantasy #s I guess.

8 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

nycjunc:

Favre, Peyton, Eli, Coughlin, everyone on the Pats except Brady all suck and are undeserving of any praise. They don't belong in the HoF. 
Brady, Sanchez, Chad P, Tony Dungy: greatest ever and all deserve the HoF.

 

Favre is a deserving hall of famer, doesn't change the fact he sabotgaed our 2008 season.

Peyton is a deserving HOFer, doesn't change the fact he is 't nearly as great as Brady.

Eli is a quality QB, doesn't belong in the Hall though that could change depending upon the next few years

Coughlin does not belong, 2 great runs don't equal HOF.  the man was fired twice and left both franchises w/ long playoff-less streaks

Brady is the best of all time but obviously he has played w/ some talent in NE.  

 

Sanchez was good for us, nothing more.  it's those that cannot read that act like I called him great.

same thing w/ Chad

did you see what Dungy did in his career?  he averaged 11 wins a season over 13 seasons and that includes his lone losing season when he took over the worst franchise in sports in Tama Bay.  Coughlin led his teams to at least 11 wins just 5 times in 20 years.

Dungy made the playoffs 11 of 13 seasons, Coughlin 9 of 20.

 

I am sorry you don't fully understand what you are watching but please allow me to help.

[Big Blocker]

It's close between Vinny and Kenny, so close I have trouble voting on that.  While Vinny had the better td to int stat, the league rules had already become more favorable to the passing game, and Vinny's OL was somewhat better.

Fitzpatrick third and Chad fourth.  Chad goes last because the impact of his being exposed by the Raiders was so complete and dragged down not only the rest of his career (along with his fragility and inability to stay on the field), but because of the impact going forward on the team as well.

[slats]

19 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I think the reason you didn't include him is because regardless of the thread title, you created this thread to undermine Fitz by displaying his Jets-record breaking stats, and then comparing it to QBs who didn't break records but made the playoffs. 

Favre would have foiled your pursuit of crushing Fitz. 

I'll say it again: Any discussion of best Jets QB seasons without mention of Favre is incomplete at best, and purely ignorant at worst. Even with his 22 ints and torn bicep that led to finishing 1-4 that year, he's still in the discussion. 

Anyway, carry on with your agenda. 

I don't even understand what you're saying here. Would it have foiled my nefarious plans because Favre's season crashed and burned? I clearly just don't hold that year in the same esteem that you do. Favre was the ultimate mercenary here, and either he refused to take himself out of the lineup, or Mangini was too in awe of him to take him out, but either way that season ended far too poorly to even consider - at least as far as I'm concerned. If you wanna do a best first 11 games of a season, I'd probably change my mind. 

[nyjunc]

25 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

It's close between Vinny and Kenny, so close I have trouble voting on that.  While Vinny had the better td to int stat, the league rules had already become more favorable to the passing game, and Vinny's OL was somewhat better.

Fitzpatrick third and Chad fourth.  Chad goes last because the impact of his being exposed by the Raiders was so complete and dragged down not only the rest of his career (along with his fragility and inability to stay on the field), but because of the impact going forward on the team as well.

O'Brien's 1985 is nowhere near Vinny 1998.  Vinny by far had the best single season of any QB in Jets history.  the next closest would be Chad 2002 not Kenny 1985.

[nyjunc]

18 minutes ago, slats said:

I don't even understand what you're saying here. Would it have foiled my nefarious plans because Favre's season crashed and burned? I clearly just don't hold that year in the same esteem that you do. Favre was the ultimate mercenary here, and either he refused to take himself out of the lineup, or Mangini was too in awe of him to take him out, but either way that season ended far too poorly to even consider - at least as far as I'm concerned. If you wanna do a best first 11 games of a season, I'd probably change my mind. 

even his first 11 games weren't great, he had about 3-4 really good games in that stretch.

[greenwichjetfan]

20 minutes ago, slats said:

I don't even understand what you're saying here. Would it have foiled my nefarious plans because Favre's season crashed and burned? I clearly just don't hold that year in the same esteem that you do. Favre was the ultimate mercenary here, and either he refused to take himself out of the lineup, or Mangini was too in awe of him to take him out, but either way that season ended far too poorly to even consider - at least as far as I'm concerned. If you wanna do a best first 11 games of a season, I'd probably change my mind. 

Yes, you do. That's why you proceeded to write the rest of that post. 

As the underlined portion of your post states, this thread is about you and your opinions first; and the motives behind creating this thread are transparent when taken alongside everything else you've posted on the forums in recent months re: Fitz & Geno.

The merits of the Jets QBs by season was all too secondary a motive. It's cool. I gotcha. Carry on. 

[NYs Stepchild]

28 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

many of those shots he was set up for by poor throws and despite rules changes players are bigger, stronger, faster so they are still getting pounded.

 

of course we are allowed to disagree, that is what makes boards fun.

the OL was good, the sack #s were a reflection of the QB.

Favre belongs nowhere near a greatest season in jets history list.  he was terrible the majority of that season including throwing it away the final month but some fans are impressed by meaningless fantasy #s I guess.

Favre is a deserving hall of famer, doesn't change the fact he sabotgaed our 2008 season.

Peyton is a deserving HOFer, doesn't change the fact he is 't nearly as great as Brady.

Eli is a quality QB, doesn't belong in the Hall though that could change depending upon the next few years

Coughlin does not belong, 2 great runs don't equal HOF.  the man was fired twice and left both franchises w/ long playoff-less streaks

Brady is the best of all time but obviously he has played w/ some talent in NE.  

 

Sanchez was good for us, nothing more.  it's those that cannot read that act like I called him great.

same thing w/ Chad

did you see what Dungy did in his career?  he averaged 11 wins a season over 13 seasons and that includes his lone losing season when he took over the worst franchise in sports in Tama Bay.  Coughlin led his teams to at least 11 wins just 5 times in 20 years.

Dungy made the playoffs 11 of 13 seasons, Coughlin 9 of 20.

 

I am sorry you don't fully understand what you are watching but please allow me to help.

I was thinking of 86. In 85 Toon was just a rookie and only started half the games. You can't really credit him with O'Brien's success. Toon had 46 rec, and Walker 34. Jo Jo Townsell, and Kurt Sohn started 13 games between them. 

For his first year starting Kenny was outstanding. If only the end of 86 never happened we were really building something. 

Then the old players got old. Shuler, Walker were done after 86. Never replaced those guys. We drafted Vick in the first round instead.

[slats]

Just now, greenwichjetfan said:

Yes, you do. That's why you proceeded to write the rest of that post. 

As the underlined portion of your post states, this thread is about you and your opinions first; and the motives behind creating this thread are transparent when taken alongside everything else you've posted on the forums in recent months re: Fitz & Geno.

The merits of the Jets QBs by season was all too secondary a motive. It's cool. I gotcha. Carry on. 

Lol. Dude, if you don't like my poll. make your own. It's a message board. Lot's of opinions here. 

[Paradis]

20 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

1.  Vinny in '98

2.  O'Brien in '85 (A downfield thrower going 29/7 was remarkable)

3.  Favre in '08 (even higher if you want to exclude the final 5 games when he was hurt; for first 11 games he was having the best season in Jets history)

4.  Fitz in '15

5.  Pennington in '02 (He was a dumpoff machine most of the season, then collapsed in the postseason and was exposed the rest of his career)

Everytime i think about that season, i feel sick. Like the kind you felt when you just blew it with the hottest chick in your life and you knew it, even then...

if only he'd stayed healthy. 

I've never seen/felt competent dominant QB play like before as a Jets fan. It was like Favre was capable of anything. A larger than life QB... god do we sorely need that. 

[peebag]

9 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Everytime i think about that season, i feel sick. Like the kind you felt when you just blew it with the hottest chick in your life and you knew it, even then...

if only he'd stayed healthy. 

I've never seen/felt competent dominant QB play like before as a Jets fan. It was like Favre was capable of anything. A larger than life QB... god do we sorely need that. 

F*ck Favre - if he'd would have sat for a few games to get healthy, we would have made the playoffs - but noooooo.....got a keep that streak alive....selfish bastard.

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, peebag said:

F*ck Favre - if he'd would have sat for a few games to get healthy, we would have made the playoffs - but noooooo.....got a keep that streak alive....selfish bastard.

It's a fair criticism, but then again, even Favre with a torn bicep might have been better than Kellen Clemens.  And based on my limited knowledge of it, bicep tears require more than just a few weeks of recovery time.  So I don't think it would have helped much to sit him for 3-4 weeks and bring him back in time for a playoff run.  It was either shut him down completely, or let him play through the pain.  I don't think an option in the middle existed.

[greenwichjetfan]

50 minutes ago, slats said:

Lol. Dude, if you don't like my poll. make your own. It's a message board. Lot's of opinions here. 

Why make my own when I've got yours to post in? I think your poll is poorly constructed due to a visibly transparent hidden agenda. No harm, no foul, no hurt feelings (on my end at least). Just posting opinions on a message board.

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, NYs Stepchild said:

I was thinking of 86. In 85 Toon was just a rookie and only started half the games. You can't really credit him with O'Brien's success. Toon had 46 rec, and Walker 34. Jo Jo Townsell, and Kurt Sohn started 13 games between them. 

For his first year starting Kenny was outstanding. If only the end of 86 never happened we were really building something. 

Then the old players got old. Shuler, Walker were done after 86. Never replaced those guys. We drafted Vick in the first round instead.

Kenny was really good in 1985, I am not trying to say he wasn't but others had better seasons.

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

Everytime i think about that season, i feel sick. Like the kind you felt when you just blew it with the hottest chick in your life and you knew it, even then...

if only he'd stayed healthy. 

I've never seen/felt competent dominant QB play like before as a Jets fan. It was like Favre was capable of anything. A larger than life QB... god do we sorely need that. 

he was the iron man, he got hurt in october then he had his ONLY good stretch of football in November.  he doesn't get the injury excuse, he played through it and was terrible.  he killed us w/ his head not w/ any diminished arm.  he completely sabotaged our season, a season where w/ no Brady we had a chance to do something special.  he couldn't even get us to the playoffs as we watched the QB we dumped for him take a 1 win team and win the division title.

[Paradis]

he was the iron man, he got hurt in october then he had his ONLY good stretch of football in November.  he doesn't get the injury excuse, he played through it and was terrible.  he killed us w/ his head not w/ any diminished arm.  he completely sabotaged our season, a season where w/ no Brady we had a chance to do something special.  he couldn't even get us to the playoffs as we watched the QB we dumped for him take a 1 win team and win the division title.

Nope, loved him

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[nyjunc]

6 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Nope, loved him

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ok, you are allowed to.  I just like winning more than watching a QB throw a bunch of TDs and bunch of INTs.

[Paradis]

ok, you are allowed to.  I just like winning more than watching a QB throw a bunch of TDs and bunch of INTs.

Don't we all...

But the reality is, most super bowl QBs are more like Favre than they are Brady; ballsy a$$holes who catch fire at the right time.

I'll take Eli and his erratic SB rings over the statistician plaque on the wall.

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[nyjunc]

31 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Don't we all...

But the reality is, most super bowl QBs are more like Favre than they are Brady; ballsy a$$holes who catch fire at the right time.

I'll take Eli and his erratic SB rings over the statistician plaque on the wall.

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which is why despite playing on loaded teams he only has 1 SB title and that was thanks more to his D and STs.

 

Brady is a million times the QB Favre is.  Eli is like a poor man's Favre

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm equally unimpressed with the people who are hell bent on making us realize Fitzpatrick is pretty average.  News flash:  We all get this.  Even the biggest Fitz supporters like me get this. 

Having no worse than the 5th best QB season for the Jets since Namath is more of a reflection of our bad QB's than anything else, but it also means Fitz is our best QB since 2008, and that the consistent complaints about him are going overboard.  Why not talk more about the other 52 roster spots, being competed over by so many talented young players?  That sounds more fun.

Fish ran a thread this offseason proclaiming Fitz the next best Jet QB after Namath.  

Plenty agreed with him.

They all don't get it. 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

Fish ran a thread this offseason proclaiming Fitz the next best Jet QB after Namath.  

Plenty agreed with him.

They all don't get it. 

Hmm.  Fair.  But how does being overly critical play well against the minority who are calling him that?  Just ignore those idiots.

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, nyjunc said:

I love Al, one of my all time favorites and I feel had he not been hung out to dry by O'Brien and suffered so many concussions he could have been a hall of famer but he's not Brandon Marshall.  I agree he's underrated but disagree he's as good or better than Marshall.  In Marshall's 3 best TD seasons he had 37 TDs, in Toon's entire career(8 seasons) he had 31 TDs.

He wasn't hung out to dry by anyone.  He was a concussion waiting to happen.  

You can't seriously judge any WR from the 80's against one from today with the rule changes strictly by stats.  Toon was a great WR who could dominate a game.  Just leave it at that.

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Hmm.  Fair.  But how does being overly critical play well against the minority who are calling him that?  Just ignore those idiots.

Hey, I'm just feeling it, never thought of this a knock against Fitz.  I thought it was a question just put out there.  I do think Fitzs season belongs on the list, he put up great numbers so it ranks.  

[southparkcpa]

52 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Don't we all...

But the reality is, most super bowl QBs are more like Favre than they are Brady; ballsy a$$holes who catch fire at the right time.

I'll take Eli and his erratic SB rings over the statistician plaque on the wall.

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or a Terrell Davis, 2 SB rings over a compiler of stats who by his own admission doesnt love the game.  Oh..wrong thread.