The Cycle goes around again.

[phill1c]

2 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

The Colts are the anomaly of teams that happen to have a quarterback and suck. That's because they are completely inept in the front office and ownership.

The Eagles never rebuilt. They were good with Chip Kelly and then they were bad. A year later they hit on the quarterback and now they are good to go again.

excuse me, but what about Andrew Luck says "great QB"? He did OK with a good supporting cast and some serious continuity from the HOF QB who left. Since he's had to shoulder more of the responsibility, he hasn't done anything. The most overrated QB in the NFL right now.

[UnitedWhofans]

Jason McIntyre ‏@jasonrmcintyre  20m20 minutes ago

Jets have lost to 3 playoff teams from 2015: Bengals, KC, Seahawks. NY media says sky is falling, QB controversy. LOL Steelers, Cards next

[phill1c]

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

No. Not necessarily.

Yes, even the Jets have some quality players. Even the Jags. EVERY team has good players because, again, the contracts are generally short in length and the more you lose the greater access to talent you have.

Please, you must stop this senseless argument that you aren't supporting.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, phill1c said:

Yes, even the Jets have some quality players. Even the Jags. EVERY team has good players because, again, the contracts are generally short in length and the more you lose the greater access to talent you have.

Please, you must stop this senseless argument that you aren't supporting.

Right. And they have some young quality talent coming. WHo are cost controlled.

[ASH1962]

36 minutes ago, BroadwayJoe12 said:

Until they find a QB, they're not doing it the right way. Spending a second on Hack is not doing it the right way. In today's NFL, you either have a QB or you're on the couch in the playoffs. They find a QB, I'll start to come around. 

I agree 100% the QB drives the bus, but we also need a better HC IMO. These players make millions of dollars, if they lose, so what, they don't care, they still get paid.

[phill1c]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

Right. And they have some young quality talent coming. WHo are cost controlled.

the same as EVERY team. Whatever. Agree to disagree because I don't feel like we're actually talking TO one another. Thanks.

[BigRy56]

3 minutes ago, phill1c said:

excuse me, but what about Andrew Luck says "great QB"? He did OK with a good supporting cast and some serious continuity from the HOF QB who left. Since he's had to shoulder more of the responsibility, he hasn't done anything. The most overrated QB in the NFL right now.

 

Andrew Luck is your prototypical franchise quarterback who has single handedly carried the Colts to any win that Indianapolis has gotten during his tenure there. That includes and AFC championship game.

[BigRy56]

7 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

49ers sucked for most of the 2000s. Got some young talent to develop. Boom they're off to the Super Bowl.

Seahawks were bad after 2006. Got some young defensive talent. Drafted Russell Wilson. Boim Super Bowl

 

49ers is a decent argument for a rebuild.. but Colin Kaepernick also got hot and won them a ton of games during that Super Bowl run.

Seahawks are just another team with a good defense without Russel Wilson, you saw that today.

[phill1c]

3 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

Andrew Luck is your prototypical franchise quarterback who has single handedly carried the Colts to any win that Indianapolis has gotten during his tenure there. That includes and AFC championship game.

He aint doing it lately. So, if he were the single reason the Colts WERE doing well, what has happened? And it definitely flies in the face of 53 men needed to win. And the Pats success. Oh wait, that's Brady, except when Brady's been injured or suspended.

the Colts had some carryover from Peyton Manning and a very competent OL and WR corps. Luck's stats have been pedestrian the last couple of years without these components.

SHIIT, Mark Sanchez can get a team to the championship game!!

Hero worship at its most insidious.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, BigRy56 said:

49ers is a decent argument for a rebuild.. but Colin Kaepernick also got hot and won them a ton of games during that Super Bowl run.

Seahawks are just another team with a good defense without Russel Wilson, you saw that today.

But how did they get that defense. A rebuild

[phill1c]

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

But how did they get that defense. A rebuild

No, they just sucked. There is no rebuilding, just losing a bunch of seasons.

[Bugg]

46 minutes ago, phill1c said:

Newsflash to UnitedWhoFans:

The ENTIRE NFL is on short term contracts.

your entire premise is hogwash.

This whole "we're gonna rebuild in 5 years' thing is not reality. With the cap every year is a new proposition. You never get that long,and the GMs and coaches know as much going in. Think Mccagnan has a way longer leash, but Bowles, I dunno. Team looks unprepared, takes stupid penalties, dumb timeouts and challenges, doesn't change much week to week nor half to half. This is not good.  And a rebuilding team eats Revis's salary and doesn't resign Fitz. And the defense, despite a DL loaded with top picks on big salaries, totally sucks balls. If you have this much of your cap space and top picks in that unit HAVE A FVCKIN' PASS RUSH FOR FUVKC'S SAKE. 

[BigRy56]

Just now, phill1c said:

He aint doing it lately. So, if he were the single reason the Colts WERE doing well, what has happened? And it definitely flies in the face of 53 men needed to win. And the Pats success. Oh wait, that's Brady, except when Brady's been injured or suspended.

the Colts had some carryover from Peyton Manning and a very competent OL and WR corps. Luck's stats have been pedestrian the last couple of years without these components.

Hero worship at its most insidious.

 

Completely different circumstances, the Patriots have the best coaching staff of all time. Andrew Luck has none of that. He has been sacked a million times, has no running game, and mediocre at best receivers.. and he still puts up 30 points a game.

P.S. Andrew Luck has never had a competent offensive line.

It's not hero worship, it's facts. If you put Andrew Luck on the Jets, we are Super Bowl contenders. Not even debatable.

[Baeton Manning]

I think it's better to look at Bortles, Mariota and Winston than Luck - I mean, none of those three guys are traditional "busts," they can all play. But they're on some ugly teams, playing some ugly games, with supporting casts that I don't see as that substantial. Are we behind Jacksonville, Tennessee and Tampa as an organization? Are we gonna be talking about the 14-2 Bucs next year? Is it really "the way forward" to take a prime talent, but put him in a situation where he might go 5-11 for three years?

[j4jets]

49 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

And it pisses me off because I think the Jets are rebuilding the right way in this town. Seem competitive to keep the fanbase happy and quietly get in new talent so that a young core can be formed.

They get a coach who is the total opposite of Rex personality wise, and everybody loves the hire. Media loves it and fans love it.

Now in year 2, Fans want to dump the coach and are questioning the GM.

Woody, because he listens to fans, will fire both of them and then they will start all over again. Same cycle different year. All because the fanbase will not accept a full rebuild like other teams do. 

Pisses me off because they are doing it the right way and impatient fans will force them out. Bowles should at least get 3 years. By that time, enough young talent will be here so that when a coaching change is made, the transition can be made easily

 

Hold one a second buddy. You don't rebuild by borrowing future cap dollars and the leagues worst QB by a huge margin. I don't think you even know what rebuilding means. It certainly isn't overpaying a 'never has-been' QB whom nobody wanted. 

When you rebuild, you dump your overpaid, underproducing aging vets. Fitz n Forte never get signed, even though I liked the cheap Forte pick. A 50/50 chance Wilkerson gets tagged and traded for future picks. Trade down in the first to pick up multiple picks. Lots of stuff needs to happen to get a hint of a rebuild. 

As it stands, we have an untested Petty as our QB next year while we chase the Beard and have zero cap space. Yeah, rebuild my a$$.

[BigRy56]

3 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

But how did they get that defense. A rebuild

They struck gold with Sherman late in the draft, Michael Bennett as an UDFA, and have had excellent coaching, etc. to go along with what is now some of the best quarterback play in the league. They weren't rebuilding they have just drafted phenomenally. 

[phill1c]

1 minute ago, BigRy56 said:

Completely different circumstances, the Patriots have the best coaching staff of all time. Andrew Luck has none of that. He has been sacked a million times, has no running game, and mediocre at best receivers.. and he still puts up 30 points a game.

P.S. Andrew Luck has never had a competent offensive line.

It's not hero worship, it's facts. If you put Andrew Luck on the Jets, we are Super Bowl contenders. Not even debatable.

Again, Mark Sanchez got to the AFC Championship game TWICE, which is one time more than the "franchise QB" you seem to think Luck is. ANYONE can be a franchise QB with great talent surrounding him and a 'franchise QB' without great talent doesn't win you much. So, why bother to call someone a "franchise" qb if they can't compensate for deficiencies, as Luck has not?

[BigRy56]

1 minute ago, phill1c said:

Again, Mark Sanchez got to the AFC Championship game TWICE, which is one time more than the "franchise QB" you seem to think Luck is. ANYONE can be a franchise QB with great talent surrounding him and a 'franchise QB' without great talent doesn't win you much. So, why bother to call someone a "franchise" qb if they can't compensate for deficiencies, as Luck has not?

 

Sanchez was never a franchise quarterback, unfortunately. They had no shot with him taking on the 'franchise quarterback' role. Sanchez fell apart when the rest of the team did.

Andrew Luck will be there for the next 10 years, and hopefully they will put a team around him and he will be as good as he can be. It's a 53 man squad, obviously, but it begins and ends with the quarterback. Those are the teams that have year in, year out success.

[phill1c]

Just now, BigRy56 said:

It's a 53 man squad, obviously, but it begins and ends with the quarterback

Just not true. If it did, Carolina would be the champs.

it takes a balance...relying on a 'franchise' QB gets you the Colts, which haven't won anything recently.

[phill1c]

2 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

Andrew Luck will be there for the next 10 years

And they may not win anything in 10 years. So, what's the point. Andrew Luck shows that it doesn't "start and end" with the QB. I mean, your statement is a BIG contradiction. Either it starts and ends with a QB or it's a 53 man squad. You can't have it both ways...oh wait, you can because if the QB doesn't win, it's because he didn't have __________ but if he wins it's all because of him.

Hero worship.

[Beerfish]

40 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

B. Marshall, Eric Decker, Enunwa, Peake, Anderson, J. Marshall, D. Smith.

What did our lineup look like three seasons ago? We can not rebuild every position in one or two seasons but to say we are  not building for the future when we are stocking up on young players who just happen to be behind some talented veteran players is silly. We are rebuilding the offensive line and Corner positions need to be addressed for sure though.

Marshall and decker and win now players, the others are nice finds later in the draft though a couple of them that looked great in camp are looking like maybes now.  We have put almost no resouces into that unit compared to the rest of the team.

[bealeb319]

Just now, Beerfish said:

Marshall and decker and win now players, the others are nice finds later in the draft though a couple of them that looked great in camp are looking like maybes now.  We have put almost no resouces into that unit compared to the rest of the team.

My point is that this roster isn't just a win now roster. It is of course intended to win games but at the same time it has not ignored bringing in younger players and adding depth.

[BigRy56]

3 minutes ago, phill1c said:

And they may not win anything in 10 years. So, what's the point. Andrew Luck shows that it doesn't "start and end" with the QB. I mean, your statement is a BIG contradiction. Either it starts and ends with a QB or it's a 53 man squad. You can't have it both ways...oh wait, you can because if the QB doesn't win, it's because he didn't have __________ but if he wins it's all because of him.

Hero worship.

 

The Colts are a bad example because they might have the worst roster in football. A mediocre roster and they are a playoff team. They had a mediocre roster when they went to the AFC Championship game. 

[phill1c]

Just now, BigRy56 said:

The Colts are a bad example because they might have the worst roster in football. A mediocre roster and they are a playoff team. They had a mediocre roster when they went to the AFC Championship game. 

Please stop. a "franchise qb" you said it "starts and ends" with him. So either Luck is NOT a franchise QB or your argument is not true. OR, my contention BOTH. Luck is not a 'franchise qb' and really, it takes more than one to win.

[BigRy56]

3 minutes ago, phill1c said:

Please stop. a "franchise qb" you said it "starts and ends" with him. So either Luck is NOT a franchise QB or your argument is not true. OR, my contention BOTH. Luck is not a 'franchise qb' and really, it takes more than one to win.

Without a franchise qb, your chances of winning a Super Bowl are almost 0%. If you really think otherwise then I don't know what to tell you.

Please tell me about Trent Dilfer to make your point.

[phill1c]

Just now, BigRy56 said:

Without a franchise qb, your chances of winning a Super Bowl are almost 0%. If you really think otherwise then I don't know what to tell you.

I think you can win with a decent QB, if you have talent and coaching to compensate. personally, I don't know what a "franchise qb" is exactly. You don't need a top-10 qb to win, the Broncos proved that last year.

And, really, when the Pats won the year before, they won because their DEFENSE made a great play at the end of the game.

[dbatesman]

44 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I WOULD LIKE TO SUGGEST YET ANOTHER TYPE OF CYCLE THAT THE JETS ENGAGE IN PLEASE HUMOUR ME, NIGEL

 

1. Jets fire sh*t coach/GM.

2. Media attributes literally every historical failing of the Jets franchise to this one sh*t coach/GM.

3. Jets hire new sh*t coach/GM.

4. Media, seeking access to said coach's/GM's off-the-record group texts, proclaims new sh*t coach/GM is infinitely better than prior sh*t coach/GM.

5. Dim fans believe new sh*t coach/GM is infinitely better than old sh*t coach/GM and set out to chide other fans for being skeptical.

6. Dim fans buy tickets, swag, retweet blog posts from beat writers extolling virtues of New Jets Regime.

7. Three years pass, new sh*t coach/GM gets fired, entirety of every historical failing of Jets franchise attributed to said coach/GM.

8. See #1.

A few sub-points:

7a. Sh*t coach/GM has solid first year, which everyone thinks earns him a bunch of goodwill but actually just raises expectations to completely unrealistic levels.

7b. Team regresses in year two under sh*t coach/GM, putting him under enormous pressure because the owner is exactly as smart as the dumbest person in the stands on any given Sunday.

7c. Desperate to keep his job, sh*t coach/GM spends a ton of money and/or draft picks on veterans.

7d. Fans and media, who are essentially a troop of monkeys trained to clap whenever the words "Jets sign" appear on the ESPN Bottom Line, applaud these transactions and speculate that the Jets could make a deep playoff run if they stay healthy.

7d. The Jets' collection of broken-down second-contract guys disappoints, as any thinking person knew they would, offering inconsistent effort and finishing 8-8. 

7e. The Jets embark on a search for a person dumb enough to agree to rebuild a franchise that is old, expensive, and utterly devoid of talent at premium positions, and owned by a bumbling, meddlesome pencilneck who takes his cues from billboards and skywriting. 

7f. Ian Rapoport writes a column called "Who's The Next Great NFL GM?" and ranks a dozen prospective GM candidates. The top three people on the list decline to interview with the Jets.

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

A few sub-points:

7a. Sh*t coach/GM has solid first year, which everyone thinks earns him a bunch of goodwill but actually just raises expectations to completely unrealistic levels.

7b. Team regresses in year two under sh*t coach/GM, putting him under enormous pressure because the owner is exactly as smart as the dumbest person in the stands on any given Sunday.

7c. Desperate to keep his job, sh*t coach/GM spends a ton of money and/or draft picks on veterans.

7d. Fans and media, who are essentially a troop of monkeys trained to clap whenever the words "Jets sign" appear on the ESPN Bottom Line, applaud these transactions and speculate that the Jets could make a deep playoff run if they stay healthy.

7d. The Jets' collection of broken-down second-contract guys disappoints, as any thinking person knew they would, offering inconsistent effort and finishing 8-8. 

7e. The Jets embark on a search for a person dumb enough to agree to rebuild a franchise that is old, expensive, and utterly devoid of talent at premium positions, and owned by a bumbling, meddlesome pencilneck who takes his cues from billboards and skywriting. 

7f. Ian Rapoport writes a column called "Who's The Next Great NFL GM?" and ranks a dozen prospective GM candidates. The top three people on the list decline to interview with the Jets.

We joke, but this is literally how it happened every time. There is no exaggeration in these thoughts. Not a lick.

[Joe Jets fan]

If this is a rebuild then explain to me why Geno Smith is on this team?   He is taking valuable reps away from the two young QBs. If it were a rebuild then all that matters is getting the kids reps and if Fitz gets hurt then you get to see what you have.  Geno here means it's not just a rebuild.   

[phill1c]

14 minutes ago, Joe Jets fan said:

If this is a rebuild then explain to me why Geno Smith is on this team?   He is taking valuable reps away from the two young QBs. If it were a rebuild then all that matters is getting the kids reps and if Fitz gets hurt then you get to see what you have.  Geno here means it's not just a rebuild.   

A) Bryce Petty is hurt. So, Smith is NOT taking any reps away from him.

B ) It's more FITZPATRICK being here than Geno. Fitzpatrick is the known quantity. Smith, not so much.

[UnitedWhofans]

41 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

We joke, but this is literally how it happened every time. There is no exaggeration in these thoughts. Not a lick.

So it is up to the fanbase to be patient and break teh cycle

[T0mShane]

25 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

So it is up to the fanbase to be patient and break teh cycle

By chance, do you host a daily VLog?

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

We joke, but this is literally how it happened every time. There is no exaggeration in these thoughts. Not a lick.

Also dim Jets fans is redundant.

[Joe Jets fan]

2 hours ago, phill1c said:

A) Bryce Petty is hurt. So, Smith is NOT taking any reps away from him.

B ) It's more FITZPATRICK being here than Geno. Fitzpatrick is the known quantity. Smith, not so much.

Smith is very known and he is even worse then Fitz if that is possible.  

While Petty is hurt Hack could be getting those valuable reps. 

 

So so are you saying when Petty healthy Geno should be cut?

[CanadaSteve]

16 hours ago, BigRy56 said:

The Jets are not in a rebuild. We are a talented team that is not playing like one (I go with coaching here) and we have a journeyman quarterback who, while can definitely hold the fort for the next guy, is not going to light it up for us.

We, like always, are a quarterback away and will continue to be until we can find a young one to build around. As a guy who was screaming for Derek Carr, it hurts to see him winning in Oakland.

This team was ALWAYS on a rebuild.  Look how long it took for the Raiders to actually start looking like a legit team.

If people cannot see how bad this team was when Rex and Idzik departed, then there is nothing anyone can say to point that out.