Can we please admit that the real problem is Woody Johnson?

[SAR I]

13 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Revis was a quick-fix for a secondary that only had of-injured prospects (Milliner, McDougle), a high draft pick safety who wasn't too good as a rookie, and an unspectacular Marcus Williams. It was obvious that he would get lots of credit in the press for bringing back Revis at any price after he won a ring with the Patriots. He then also overspent heavily on Cromartie, Skrine, and Gilchrist. He paid top dollar for all of them, considering their worth at the time of their signings.

Good post.  Coming off of 4-12 and two brutal John Idzik years we had two major problems:  Secondary and quarterback.  And last year he fixed both of those as best he could and we won 10 games which was good for the players, good for the fans, and good for the team.  A winning culture begets a winning team down the road.

And while our secondary and our quarterback look to have regressed this year, I think it's because of one simple thing:  Last year we ended our season playing 5 cupcakes and 1 elite team and to open this season we are playing 5 elites and only 1 cupcake.  We just aren't good enough to beat the big boys just yet.  Year 2 Game 4 of a, what, four year rebuild, we are where I thought we'd be off of 4-12 while we wait for rookies and sophomores to mature on D and at QB.  The future still looks bright if Maccagnan has ability, his QB's will tell the tale,

SAR I

[southparkcpa]

2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

  The future still looks bright if Maccagnan has ability, his QB's will tell the tale,

SAR I

What exactly does that mean?  Right now, Bow;es appears to be in WAY over his head. Mac has the resume and background but I have yet to see the results of all his drafting skills.

In 2 drafts I see Williams as a standout pick. The rest??  Leaves us scratching our ass, not our head.  

[T0mShane]

6 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

those were his words.

 

BP was an awful GM type, all time great coach though.  he turned us around through coaching not his GM role.  he hurt us more than helped us as GM.

Parcells turned the Giants, Cowboys, Pats, and a Jets from laughingstock franchises into contenders within three years at each stop. The turnarounds were so effective that they lasted years after he had left those franchises. 

[UnitedWhofans]

5 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

What exactly does that mean?  Right now, Bow;es appears to be in WAY over his head. Mac has the resume and background but I have yet to see the results of all his drafting skills.

In 2 drafts I see Williams as a standout pick. The rest??  Leaves us scratching our ass, not our head.  

Williams, Lee, Jenkins, Edwards, Peake, and Burris are all picks that have made positive plays on the field

[southparkcpa]

3 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Williams, Lee, Jenkins, Edwards, Peake, and Burris are all picks that have made positive plays on the field

Positive plays ?  Jace Amaro made a positive play and so did Stephen Hill.  I simply am pointing out that the draft is not significantly better under Mac and I thought it should be.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, southparkcpa said:

Positive plays ?  Jace Amaro made a positive play and so did Stephen Hill.  I simply am pointing out that the draft is not significantly better under Mac and I thought it should be.

I disagree 100% I wouldn't make this assertion after one week. This is with 4 weeks of data

[nyjunc]

16 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Parcells turned the Giants, Cowboys, Pats, and a Jets from laughingstock franchises into contenders within three years at each stop. The turnarounds were so effective that they lasted years after he had left those franchises. 

he did so by coaching, all time great coach.  

 

when he left the Giants they instantly were mediocre and would make just 2 more postseasons in the 90s and never even reach a title game.

when he left the pats they were getting worse every year until Brady rescued the franchise.

 

we actually did as well after he left.  w/ him/Groh from 1997-2000 we made one postseason, won 1 PO game, won 1 div title.  the next coach made 3 postseasons from 2001-2005, won a div title, won 2 PO games.

[southparkcpa]

12 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I disagree 100% I wouldn't make this assertion after one week. This is with 4 weeks of data

yet in another thread you chose 2 picks from 2016 that are developed. Make up your mind.

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

he did so by coaching, all time great coach.  

 

when he left the Giants they instantly were mediocre and would make just 2 more postseasons in the 90s and never even reach a title game.

when he left the pats they were getting worse every year until Brady rescued the franchise.

 

we actually did as well after he left.  w/ him/Groh from 1997-2000 we made one postseason, won 1 PO game, won 1 div title.  the next coach made 3 postseasons from 2001-2005, won a div title, won 2 PO games.

I'm not finding the post, but I did it awhile back. The teams Parcells took over had a ~.350 win percentage the three seasons before he got there and a -.640 win percentage for the three years after he left them. That doesn't include the records when he was actually the coach.

[JiFtheOracle]

I dont know.  This time around, Woody seemed to actually take the right route.  Let 2 people like Wolf and Casserly do the heavy lifting.  He knows he's a moron, that's why he outsources his work.

We're 2 drafts into Mac's career.  His 2 first round picks look the part.  His 2 second round picks are worthless.  That's bad...but he may have found some diamonds in the rough in the later rounds and UDFA's, which is basically a requirement these days to structuring a good team.

The reality is, the product we're seeing on the field doesnt relate to the talent on the roster.  So Mac's biggest decision very soon is going to be, who's my coach? 

But if he keeps butt ******* the QB position, does it really matter? 

 

[Jet Nut]

13 hours ago, Lizard King said:

Amongst other things, the Fitz and Revis deals have Woody written all over them. I highly doubt that Maccagnan wanted Fitz back here in such a way that he met the outrageous asking price from Fitz, that was so far from his initial offer. There are so many examples of headline grabbing, long term sacrificing gimmicks from Woody that I won't even restate the obvious. Simply put, he is Al Davis and Jerry Jones without any of the success. And we are all stuck suffering for it. 

Is there anything easier than just blaming the owner?  I mean even when we have no idea that he's involved in a signing, Fitz, you just blame him.  I don't believe that he pushed the signing and even if he did, the vast majority of fans thought it was the only move to make.  Now he p,and badly and tithe same fans that called for his signing are looking for someone to blame.  

[KRL]

People need to stop with their anti-Woody agendas.  He's done everything an owner should do since

he cleaned house back in 2014.  He hired old time GM's to help him put together a new management 

team, he's provided $$$, he's remained silent and let the professionals run the team

[Adoni Beast]

I don't blame Woody this time. He had Ron Wolf sign off on both Mac and Bowles. He lauded both hires, as did a lot of respected people around the league. Bowles has me worried but I still think he gets it right with the right players. 

[j4jets]

13 hours ago, Lizard King said:

Amongst other things, the Fitz and Revis deals have Woody written all over them. I highly doubt that Maccagnan wanted Fitz back here in such a way that he met the outrageous asking price from Fitz, that was so far from his initial offer. There are so many examples of headline grabbing, long term sacrificing gimmicks from Woody that I won't even restate the obvious. Simply put, he is Al Davis and Jerry Jones without any of the success. And we are all stuck suffering for it. 

Wow. If Woody wanted Fitz for $12mil, Fitz wouldn't have hit FA. And Revis was a necessity in 2015. Your theory is garbage just like Fitz. 

[nyjunc]

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I'm not finding the post, but I did it awhile back. The teams Parcells took over had a ~.350 win percentage the three seasons before he got there and a -.640 win percentage for the three years after he left them. That doesn't include the records when he was actually the coach.

I would hope they were better than the disasters before he took over, I think the better measure would be looking at his final 3 years in a job and the first 3 years after him.

 

he made the title game w/ a roster full of players he inherited.  he's not a good GM, he's an all time great HC.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

51 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Good post.  Coming off of 4-12 and two brutal John Idzik years we had two major problems:  Secondary and quarterback.  And last year he fixed both of those as best he could and we won 10 games which was good for the players, good for the fans, and good for the team.  A winning culture begets a winning team down the road.

And while our secondary and our quarterback look to have regressed this year, I think it's because of one simple thing:  Last year we ended our season playing 5 cupcakes and 1 elite team and to open this season we are playing 5 elites and only 1 cupcake.  We just aren't good enough to beat the big boys just yet.  Year 2 Game 4 of a, what, four year rebuild, we are where I thought we'd be off of 4-12 while we wait for rookies and sophomores to mature on D and at QB.  The future still looks bright if Maccagnan has ability, his QB's will tell the tale,

SAR I

A lot of people were way too dismissive of just how (comparatively) easy our 2015 schedule was. 

[nyjunc]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

A lot of people were way too dismissive of just how (comparatively) easy our 2015 schedule was. 

I don't think we are losing b/c of how tough our sched is.  we handed games to Cincy and KC, we are being badly outcoached on a weekly basis.  we have the talent to compete w/ anyone.

[Sperm Edwards]

56 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

All on short term deals. Why don't people get this?

Why don't people like you get that $ paid to one player is $ unavailable to pay to another player? The length of the term does not erase this. 

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, nyjunc said:

I don't think we are losing b/c of how tough our sched is.  we handed games to Cincy and KC, we are being badly outcoached on a weekly basis.  we have the talent to compete w/ anyone.

I think we won more games vs an easy schedule than we would have against a tough one. Easy opponents and difficult opponents do not present the same challenge. 

I agree that our coaching has been pretty bad. Still hopeful the light turns on, but I wouldn't say I'm optimistic that such will happen. 

[drdetroit]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

those were his words.

 

BP was an awful GM type, all time great coach though.  he turned us around through coaching not his GM role.  he hurt us more than helped us as GM.

We got Pennington, Abraham, Ellis and Coles in the 2000 draft and Parcells built a top 3 OL along and traded for Curtis Martin with that.  All of that was before Woody bought the jets

 

Woody inherited that.  Hence the "golden age" of Jets football you somehow think he should get credit for

 

[SoFlaJets]

There is only one parameter with which to judge an NFL football team Did you win the Super Bowl? No? Well then you failed.

 

OK< how about this one...Did you at least get TO the Super Bowl but you lost the game? No? OK, You Failed. I could care less about 9-10 win seasons that sometimes get the Jets a wild card berth and most times even if they do, they are road games and they are mostly losses  with the one-two exceptions which I could care less about: Rex Ryan's two big AFC Championship games-the Jets lost both. Woody Johnson IS the problem-no veteran head coaches with any kind of a success rate will even LISTEN to the Jets proposals. I remember Bill Cowher actually LAUGHING at the question when it was posed to him; "Bill, would you consider listening to the Jets if they ask you to be the next Head Coach?" He laughed in the guy's face, shook his head and said NO!.  

[drdetroit]

Look fellas there is a reason teams like the Steelers, Giants and Patriots win every year.

 

 

Stability starts at the top.  Woody is a joke.

[joewilly12]

Be careful what we wish for if he sells this team we might wind up in London, I can see that happening. 

[drdetroit]

6 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Be careful what we wish for if he sells this team we might wind up in London, I can see that happening. 

Jags already have their bags packed

[nyjunc]

3 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

We got Pennington, Abraham, Ellis and Coles in the 2000 draft and Parcells built a top 3 OL along and traded for Curtis Martin with that.  All of that was before Woody bought the jets

 

Woody inherited that.  Hence the "golden age" of Jets football you somehow think he should get credit for

 

Chad and Abe were always hurt

Ellis was a solid player

we lost Coles after 2002 and he was never the same

we never had a top 3 OL.  

Curtis trade was great but we did give him cap busting deal and have to give up a lot to sign him.  Ne did ok recovering from losing him.

 

By 2002 the roster was already changing.

Chad: Groh

Curtis: Parcells

Anderson: Steinberg

Chrebet: Kotite

Coles: Groh

Fabini: parcells

Machado: parcells

Mawae: parcells

Thomas: parcells

McKenzie: Bradway

Abe: groh

Ellis: groh

Evans: Bradway

Ferguson: Parcells

Jones: Steinberg

Mo: Steinberg

D. Abe: Bradway

Beasley: Bradway

Garbes: Bradway

Robinson: Bradway

 

 

 

 

[joewilly12]

3 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Jags already have their bags packed

So theres a chance at the Jacksonville Jets. 

[nyjunc]

8 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Look fellas there is a reason teams like the Steelers, Giants and Patriots win every year.

 

 

Stability starts at the top.  Woody is a joke.

the Giants don't belong in that group.  sure they have 2 fluke SB titles which is great but they have missed POs 6 of last 7 years in very weak division.

[SoFlaJets]

11 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

the Giants don't belong in that group.  sure they have 2 fluke SB titles which is great but they have missed POs 6 of last 7 years in very weak division.

Bro, they won TWO FRIGGIN SUPER BOWLS in the aughts, I'll take that over anything the Jets have done since I first started to

have pubes in the late 60's

[drdetroit]

11 minutes ago, SoFlaJets said:

Bro, they won TWO FRIGGIN SUPER BOWLS in the aughts, I'll take that over anything the Jets have done since I first started to

have pubes in the late 60's

The Maras are respected, the Commisioner's office loves them, they hire the right people

 

Woody on the contrary is an outcast.  He handpicks John IdziK and now that we should be tanking watch he will just sit back watch us go 3-13 and pick some mediocre defensive player in the draft over Deshaun Watson

 

 

 

[RoadFan]

3 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

The Maras are respected, the Commisioner's office loves them, they hire the right people

 

Woody on the contrary is an outcast.  He handpicks John IdziK and now that we should be tanking watch he will just sit back watch us go 3-13 and pick some mediocre defensive player in the draft over Deshaun Watson

 

 

 

Do you like Watson? I have not watched him yet at all.  Or any of the 2017 QB class for that matter. 

Honestly, what's the difference? The Jets will pick the wrong guy anyway even if they do draft a QB. 

[nyjunc]

32 minutes ago, SoFlaJets said:

Bro, they won TWO FRIGGIN SUPER BOWLS in the aughts, I'll take that over anything the Jets have done since I first started to

have pubes in the late 60's

they have but they aren't Pitt and Ne who are competing for championships nearly every year.  

[SoFlaJets]

5 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

Do you like Watson? I have not watched him yet at all.  Or any of the 2017 QB class for that matter. 

Honestly, what's the difference? The Jets will pick the wrong guy anyway even if they do draft a QB. 

It's not so much that they'll pick the wrong player RF, it's that Johnson has already picked the wrong Head Coach because Bowel Movement is a defensive guy who has no idea on how to run his own side of the ball no less the other side. R.W. Johnson continually makes the same mistakes over and over and over and over again by picking inexperienced 1st time ever head coaches to be the HC of the NYJ. Rex had NO IDEA and neither does this guy. He's Herman Edwards to a Tee except without even HAVING a likeable personality like Edwards at least had-at first. So it doesn't really matter-it takes an offensive minded coach to be able to cultivate a young QB.

[Bugg]

53 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Look fellas there is a reason teams like the Steelers, Giants and Patriots win every year.

 

 

Stability starts at the top.  Woody is a joke.

One thing I do not get; why it is 2 good football people(not the same as good humans, mind you)  like Bellichick and Parcells ran out of here as if their hair was on fire at exactly the point Johnson took over. And do so despite Johnson moving the operation from Long Island  into their backyards in NJ. Johnson was a. going to write one of them huge checks and b. cut their commute to nothing. Never heard an explanation. 

[SoFlaJets]

37 minutes ago, Bugg said:

One thing I do not get; why it is 2 good football people(not the same as good humans, mind you)  like Bellichick and Parcells ran out of here as if their hair was on fire at exactly the point Johnson took over. And do so despite Johnson moving the operation from Long Island  into their backyards in NJ. Johnson was a. going to write one of them huge checks and b. cut their commute to nothing. Never heard an explanation. 

One thing I have been able to glean about the NFL after 50 years of watching the game and that's that it's like a small town-everybody knows everybody else's business and one thing everyone knew right off the bat was that Johnson was a rich kid with a whole bunch of money who wanted a new toy to play with, so they "rewarded" him the Jets-lucky us.

Unfortunately everybody knew what the situation already was, and no SERIOUS pro wanted to work in the world's biggest market for a guy with no real knowledge of the game or even ANY kind of a reputation built up over a lifetime of being a "football person" and to risk ruining one's good name that took a lifetime of sacrifice to work for an incompetent ass.

 Take whatever business it is you're in Bugg and apply that type of a scenario to it and I'm sure you'd feel the same way that Belichick, Parcells and Cowher did. Like them or not, but one sure thing about each one of those guys is that they come from a serious football household-Robert Wood Johnson comes from a whole different world of pharmaceuticals and medical supplies and the only time football ever came up in the Johnson's house was where they'd be sitting on Sunday and whose limo driver was taking them there.

[RoadFan]

1 hour ago, SoFlaJets said:

It's not so much that they'll pick the wrong player RF, it's that Johnson has already picked the wrong Head Coach because Bowel Movement is a defensive guy who has no idea on how to run his own side of the ball no less the other side. R.W. Johnson continually makes the same mistakes over and over and over and over again by picking inexperienced 1st time ever head coaches to be the HC of the NYJ. Rex had NO IDEA and neither does this guy. He's Herman Edwards to a Tee except without even HAVING a likeable personality like Edwards at least had-at first. So it doesn't really matter-it takes an offensive minded coach to be able to cultivate a young QB.

I liken Bowles to a cross between Mangini and Ted Cottrell.

He has that cold, intense stare of Mangini mixed with Cottrell's blank and clueless expression.