Your 2016-2017 New York Knicks Thread!!!

[thadude]

5 hours ago, SMC said:

True, but it made more financial sense to eat Phil's  $24 million than be on the hook for Melo's  $54 million when Melo has an opt out in 2018. Reports are the Knicks still want to trade Melo so they don't have to pay.

The Cavs want Melo.  I don't see a deal happening before next February however

[SMC]

6 hours ago, Matt39 said:

What's even more bizarre is Jimmy picked up Phil's two year option a few months back. 

Melo's not getting dealt. The negative level of caring by him and the amount of guys he's gotten fired is truly remarkable. I've never seen anything like it.

I have no clue what's going to happen, but I know it made no financial sense to buy out/waive Melo and reports confirm that Dolan thinks that as well.

Melo has a Game of Thrones level body count like, you said, is unprecedented.

[RutgersJetFan]

Rumors today are Presti is emerging as a want and the Mills brigade wants to sign George Hill. No thanks to the guy that sh*t the bed with that Thunder lineup, but hell yes to Hill. That's a great fit from a veteran standpoint for the youth, especially considering Ntilkina drew a bunch of comparisons to Hill by people on the internet. And those guys are never wrong.

[Bugg]

1 hour ago, thadude said:

Buying out Melo = trading him to Cleveland for nothing

To save face, they have to get something for him. alt least some cap relief. 

[SMC]

13 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Rumors today are Presti is emerging as a want and the Mills brigade wants to sign George Hill. No thanks to the guy that sh*t the bed with that Thunder lineup, but hell yes to Hill. That's a great fit from a veteran standpoint for the youth, especially considering Ntilkina drew a bunch of comparisons to Hill by people on the internet. And those guys are never wrong.

Yes on Hill.  I'm non-comimttal on Presti, but the issue there was management.  They didn't want to pay the luxury tax which led to the Harden trade.  That said, he hasn't drafted that well.

As to Masai, there was a good article out of Toronto Star yesterday (below is the link).  Supposedly Masai can get out of his deal with Toronto.  He just has to want to.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/raptors/2017/06/28/decision-time-for-raptors-ujiri-and-mlse-arthur.html

[Matt39]

14 minutes ago, SMC said:

Yes on Hill.  I'm non-comimttal on Presti, but the issue there was management.  They didn't want to pay the luxury tax which led to the Harden trade.  That said, he hasn't drafted that well.

As to Masai, there was a good article out of Toronto Star yesterday (below is the link).  Supposedly Masai can get out of his deal with Toronto.  He just has to want to.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/raptors/2017/06/28/decision-time-for-raptors-ujiri-and-mlse-arthur.html

I dont get the sense we're going to get a qualified GM in here. 

[RutgersJetFan]

20 minutes ago, SMC said:

Yes on Hill.  I'm non-comimttal on Presti, but the issue there was management.  They didn't want to pay the luxury tax which led to the Harden trade.  That said, he hasn't drafted that well.

As to Masai, there was a good article out of Toronto Star yesterday (below is the link).  Supposedly Masai can get out of his deal with Toronto.  He just has to want to.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/raptors/2017/06/28/decision-time-for-raptors-ujiri-and-mlse-arthur.html

We are headed for lottery picks the next two years. I'm honestly in the mindset of I don't give a **** who the GM is because I think it's fairly clear by now that it doesn't matter, just don't trade any firsts for anyone or anything anymore. Ever.

 

[SMC]

Just now, RutgersJetFan said:

We are headed for lottery picks the next two years. I'm honestly in the mindset of I don't give a **** who the GM is because I think it's fairly clear by now that it doesn't matter, just don't trade any firsts for anyone or anything anymore. Ever.

 

That's my thinking as well.  Keep the picks and grow through the draft.  The Knicks are not that far off, young talent wise, in which they can put a talented team on the floor that will compete and grow together.  They were a sh*tshow this year and won 31 games.  Next year they can win 40, and then so on.  They're not bottom barrel. 

[RutgersJetFan]

Just now, SMC said:

That's my thinking as well.  Keep the picks and grow through the draft.  The Knicks are not that far off, young talent wise, in which they can put a talented team on the floor that will compete and grow together.  They were a sh*tshow this year and won 31 games.  Next year they can win 40, and then so on.  They're not bottom barrel. 

I think if Melo is here they're headed for a top 3 pick. He still has some ball left in him but his fit on this roster could not be any worse and it's just going to be more of the same crapshow we saw last year; meaning Willy and KP trying to get some experience while trying to placate him (and Rose last year) getting buckets. It really just does not work. They have to get rid of him. My guess is once the first wave of free agency passes and the Heyward et. al. situations settle, maybe they can get something in exchange, but who knows. Morey has always been high on him, so hopefully Mills can swing a 2020 pick or whatever.

I completely agree though. If Ntilkina pans out then him, Porzinbagger, and Big Willy Time are a solid, young core 3 to build around. IMO the goal for this season should be to let those guys get their minutes and do everything possible to get KOQ, Lee, and Noah going to pawn them off on someone making a playoff run by the deadline.

[#27TheDominator]

I think they are bottom barrel.  

[RutgersJetFan]

14 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I think they are bottom barrel.  

If they can get rid of Melo I think that's an instant +5 to 8 in the win column. In the East that actually puts you in the running for the 8 seed, especially with Butler in the West and probably George gone gone to Boston or LA, either being a wash for the East. The Knicks won't be very good, but the East will be a wasteland of dogsh*t teams next year, anything is possible.

[SMC]

11 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

If they can get rid of Melo I think that's an instant +5 to 8 in the win column. In the East that actually puts you in the running for the 8 seed, especially with Butler in the West and probably George gone gone to Boston or LA, either being a wash for the East. The Knicks won't be very good, but the East will be a wasteland of dogsh*t teams next year, anything is possible.

Completely agree.  Getting rid of Melo is the key.

[#27TheDominator]

17 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

If they can get rid of Melo I think that's an instant +5 to 8 in the win column. In the East that actually puts you in the running for the 8 seed, especially with Butler in the West and probably George gone gone to Boston or LA, either being a wash for the East. The Knicks won't be very good, but the East will be a wasteland of dogsh*t teams next year, anything is possible.

I am going to ignore the fact that "in the running for the 8 seed" in the East is bottom barrel and say, I don't even think they will be that good. 

[RutgersJetFan]

40 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I am going to ignore the fact that "in the running for the 8 seed" in the East is bottom barrel and say, I don't even think they will be that good. 

Oh yeah?

[SMC]

45 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I am going to ignore the fact that "in the running for the 8 seed" in the East is bottom barrel and say, I don't even think they will be that good. 

Bottom of the barrel is top 5 pick territory.  Even if the East sucks, being 8th seed isn't close to that.

The flip side is, if they suck that bad, they'll get a great pick!  It's win-win.

[#27TheDominator]

I am actually hopeful that with Jackson out of the way things will be a bit better.  OTOH, I people overrate these prospects fairly heavily.  I keep hearing about Porzingis like he is guaranteed to develop into Nowitzki, but that is a pretty big jump.  

[Larz]

Does Phil actually realize what happened? 

lol 

[Matt39]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

I am actually hopeful that with Jackson out of the way things will be a bit better.  OTOH, I people overrate these prospects fairly heavily.  I keep hearing about Porzingis like he is guaranteed to develop into Nowitzki, but that is a pretty big jump.  

I've never seen a more overhyped prospect in my life. Not hyperbole either. It's bizarre.

[Integrity28]

2 hours ago, SMC said:

Bottom of the barrel is top 5 pick territory.  Even if the East sucks, being 8th seed isn't close to that.

The flip side is, if they suck that bad, they'll get a great pick!  It's win-win.

eh, we're Jets fans... we should know there's a huge gap between "getting" a great pick, and "making" a great pick.

[Integrity28]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I am actually hopeful that with Jackson out of the way things will be a bit better.  OTOH, I people overrate these prospects fairly heavily.  I keep hearing about Porzingis like he is guaranteed to develop into Nowitzki, but that is a pretty big jump.  

Tall, white guy who can shoot. Obviously the same guy. Seriously if one of the two were black, the other white, they'd never EVER once be compared to each other.

It's the same reason every black QB reminds some white guy of another black QB, even if the skillset is absolutely, completely opposite.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

I've never seen a more overhyped prospect in my life. Not hyperbole either. It's bizarre.

I wouldnt go that far but he's definitely more of a spectacle than a center piece at this point.  I think everything is there for it to swing the other way though. Whether it happens or not is a different story and as long as Melo is in the picture, that story is a distant fairy tail long to be told. 

Calipari interested in being team Prez intrigues me, not going to lie. 

[Matt39]

35 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Tall, white guy who can shoot. Obviously the same guy. Seriously if one of the two were black, the other white, they'd never EVER once be compared to each other.

It's the same reason every black QB reminds some white guy of another black QB, even if the skillset is absolutely, completely opposite.

Is Manute Bol a bad comparison for KP?

[JustInFudge]

15 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Is Manute Bol a bad comparison for KP?

[RutgersJetFan]

I like that they're bringing Baker back. That dude is going to be a solid bench player.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

11 hours ago, Matt39 said:

I've never seen a more overhyped prospect in my life. Not hyperbole either. It's bizarre.

It's not bizarre at all. He's a super tall white chucker who makes funny faces. If you don't understand why teams win, don't care, or as is the case with our own beer bellies and dad jeans contingent, are just so thirsty after two decades of Dolan that you'll drink sand, he's basically the perfect draw.

This sh*t is ****ed forever. Phil sucked but he never had a chance because he was under a mandate to build around Carmelo. The next guy has no chance because he's going to be under a mandate to build around Porzingis. A thousand miles away Chris Paul is teaming up with James Harden to play Moreyball under Mike D'antoni and we're stuck with the dumbest team in the history of professional sports.

[Matt39]

1 hour ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

It's not bizarre at all. He's a super tall white chucker who makes funny faces. If you don't understand why teams win, don't care, or as is the case with our own beer bellies and dad jeans contingent, are just so thirsty after two decades of Dolan that you'll drink sand, he's basically the perfect draw.

This sh*t is ****ed forever. Phil sucked but he never had a chance because he was under a mandate to build around Carmelo. The next guy has no chance because he's going to be under a mandate to build around Porzingis. A thousand miles away Chris Paul is teaming up with James Harden to play Moreyball under Mike D'antoni and we're stuck with the dumbest team in the history of professional sports.

You just have to hope they luck into a Giannis. No different than the Jets lucking into a QB. 

Im fully expecting Melo to be resigned to try and shoot his was to 30k points. 

Woody as stupid as he is would like to win...Dolan just doesn't care.

[thadude]

14 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I am actually hopeful that with Jackson out of the way things will be a bit better.  OTOH, I people overrate these prospects fairly heavily.  I keep hearing about Porzingis like he is guaranteed to develop into Nowitzki, but that is a pretty big jump.  

You realize it takes NBA prospects at least 3-4 years to develop since they all come out at age 19?  Dirk was a nobody the Milwaukee Bucks pawned off the first couple years of his career.  

 

Even Steph Curry struggled and lost a lot his first two seasons in the NBA.  26-56 and 36-46 were the records of the Warriors his first two seasons

[thadude]

8 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I like that they're bringing Baker back. That dude is going to be a solid bench player.

Agree 100%.  I thought Baker showed something as a rookie and will continue to get better

[Matt39]

4 minutes ago, thadude said:

You realize it takes NBA prospects at least 3-4 years to develop since they all come out at age 19?  Dirk was a nobody the Milwaukee Bucks pawned off the first couple years of his career.  

 

Even Steph Curry struggled and lost a lot his first two seasons in the NBA.  26-56 and 36-46 were the records of the Warriors his first two seasons

For every Curry and Dirk there's another boatload that never develop. Putting your eggs in the Kristaps box and enabling him to act like a douchebag is basically the exact opposite way to run a franchise. But the fanbase goes gaga over karate photoshoots in Yugoslavia.

[#27TheDominator]

Just now, thadude said:

You realize it takes NBA prospects at least 3-4 years to develop since they all come out at age 19?  Dirk was a nobody the Milwaukee Bucks pawned off the first couple years of his career.  

 

Even Steph Curry struggled and lost a lot his first two seasons in the NBA.  26-56 and 36-46 were the records of the Warriors his first two seasons

Thanks for the info.  That means he is going to be better than Dirk, right?  Every tall, young Euro prospect has panned out exactly as projected.  Why stop there?  I guess he will be better than Steph Curry too!

According to your logic, Philip Rivers was "pawned off" by the Giants.  

[thadude]

40 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

For every Curry and Dirk there's another boatload that never develop. Putting your eggs in the Kristaps box and enabling him to act like a douchebag is basically the exact opposite way to run a franchise. But the fanbase goes gaga over karate photoshoots in Yugoslavia.

Get what your saying but Porzingis has shown a lot his first 2 seasons.  He would have won ROY if not for Towns 

[thadude]

32 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Thanks for the info.  That means he is going to be better than Dirk, right?  Every tall, young Euro prospect has panned out exactly as projected.  Why stop there?  I guess he will be better than Steph Curry too!

According to your logic, Philip Rivers was "pawned off" by the Giants.  

Yeah let's lump in KP with Eurobusts like Tskitishvili and Milicic.  It's not like KP didn't average 18 and 7 last year those guys had similar productivity their first two years

[SMC]

12 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

eh, we're Jets fans... we should know there's a huge gap between "getting" a great pick, and "making" a great pick.

This is very true, but the Knicks have drafted well the last few years.

What sucks for the Jets is that unless they hit a homerun in drafting a QB, they're stuck in mud.  In the NBA, a team has 5 positions that they can hit a homerun in and change the fortunes of the franchise.

[thadude]

David Griffin the ex-Cavs GM wants the Knicks job and is getting interviewed this weekend. Lebron has an opt-out next summer

 

Hmmm...

 

[SMC]

35 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Thanks for the info.  That means he is going to be better than Dirk, right?  Every tall, young Euro prospect has panned out exactly as projected.  Why stop there?  I guess he will be better than Steph Curry too!

According to your logic, Philip Rivers was "pawned off" by the Giants.  

You painting Euros with such a broad brush says more about the foundation of your opinion than it does about KP.  KP isn't a prospect.  He's produced his 1st 2 years, with a 17+ PER each season (15 PER is league average for veteran players).

Only KP knows what he'll turn into, but his 1st two season are, in fact, better than Dirk's and Pau's 1st 2 years. That isn't to say he'll be better than those 2, but for you to be dismissive of him is ridiculous.