Woody caption contest

[Bugg]

4 hours ago, batman10023 said:

my first season we got tickets was 1996 i think.  we paid 200 bucks for season tickets, lower level around the goal line.  now that ticket cost like 7-8x i think. you can't just not go or not sell them.  

On thing all sports franchises don't seem to grasp; the price of tickets precludes young guys from going to a lot of games, or maybe any games. THAT'S THEIR PRIME FUTURE CUSTOMERS. There may be lots of luxury boxes these days. Now not every seat in the old days got sold, but you are making your future customers view your product strictly as a TV experience rather than a live event. And there are a lot of empty seats for many games. And note that at metLife there are a lot of empty boxes too. And especially for the NFL, could be argued that watching on your TV is in many ways not only cheaper but better. Not sure how that works out for any business. 

[Bugg]

2 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Also just a throw-in here, whether you're a season ticket holder or a Stubhubber, my guess would be that over a long period of time one probably isn't cheaper than the other and it comes close to evening out over time (unless you shelled out tens of thousands per PSL). You lose money during bad seasons, you save money during good seasons on things like home openers, big games down the stretch, and playoff tickets. The reason season ticket holders are in the red as of now is simply because the Jets have been pretty bad since the new stadium opened and haven't had one playoff game at home. If the Jets ever clinched the 1-seed (laughable, I know), what I will be paying for 3 rounds of playoff tickets will be insane compared to what a season ticket holder gets them for.

Maaaaybe preseason tickets would skew this towards the season ticket holders in terms of higher cost, but if the Jets had a winning franchise I doubt that would be the case.

Noticing on stubub Rams tickets are not very expensive at all. And the jets have had all of 2 homes playoff games since 1998. 

[RutgersJetFan]

18 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Noticing on stubub Rams tickets are not very expensive at all. And the jets have had all of 2 homes playoff games since 1998. 

Aside from the obvious with the Rams, (they're brutal to watch), tickets are low for them right now because the Coliseum is one of the absolute worst places to attend a game on the planet. It will be interesting to see what happens when the new stadium opens. LA is such a weird sports town. Dodgers tickets do not resell for a ton but Laker tickets do. Hard to say what will happen with those.

[batman10023]

1 hour ago, Bugg said:

On thing all sports franchises don't seem to grasp; the price of tickets precludes young guys from going to a lot of games, or maybe any games. THAT'S THEIR PRIME FUTURE CUSTOMERS. There may be lots of luxury boxes these days. Now not every seat in the old days got sold, but you are making your future customers view your product strictly as a TV experience rather than a live event. And there are a lot of empty seats for many games. And note that at metLife there are a lot of empty boxes too. And especially for the NFL, could be argued that watching on your TV is in many ways not only cheaper but better. Not sure how that works out for any business. 

The jets have upper deck seats pretty cheap.

but you point is valid. We were 23 yrs old when we got those seats.  It would be hard for 23 yr olds now to afford the same seats. 

[SAR I]

10 hours ago, Bugg said:

On thing all sports franchises don't seem to grasp; the price of tickets precludes young guys from going to a lot of games, or maybe any games. THAT'S THEIR PRIME FUTURE CUSTOMERS. There may be lots of luxury boxes these days. Now not every seat in the old days got sold, but you are making your future customers view your product strictly as a TV experience rather than a live event. And there are a lot of empty seats for many games. And note that at metLife there are a lot of empty boxes too. And especially for the NFL, could be argued that watching on your TV is in many ways not only cheaper but better. Not sure how that works out for any business. 

More young fans can get into the stadium than ever before in Jets history due to the advent of StubHub.

And keep in mind that a $35 Shea Stadium ticket in 1980 is the equivalent of $108 today, you can buy face value tickets from the Jets for $75 in the upper deck or go to almost any game for under $100 using internet ticket sites.  When I sell my seats on Stubhub for $50 to a lame game, that's the equivalent of $16 in 1980.

Nothing has changed for young people except cheaper tickets easily accessible on mobile devices in realtime.

SAR I

[SAR I]

12 hours ago, Maxman said:

I don't tailgate with non-psl holders, sorry.

Exactly.  The GFE is only for loyal fans.

SAR I

[SAR I]

13 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Also just a throw-in here, whether you're a season ticket holder or a Stubhubber, my guess would be that over a long period of time one probably isn't cheaper than the other and it comes close to evening out over time (unless you shelled out tens of thousands per PSL). You lose money during bad seasons, you save money during good seasons on things like home openers, big games down the stretch, and playoff tickets. The reason season ticket holders are in the red as of now is simply because the Jets have been pretty bad since the new stadium opened and haven't had one playoff game at home. If the Jets ever clinched the 1-seed (laughable, I know), what I will be paying for 3 rounds of playoff tickets will be insane compared to what a season ticket holder gets them for.

Maaaaybe preseason tickets would skew this towards the season ticket holders in terms of higher cost, but if the Jets had a winning franchise I doubt that would be the case.

Good post, the only thing I'll add is that there is no way to game the system here, there is no way to make this a venture that makes any sense financially.

It's like spending $60 for a movie, or $10,000 on a family vacation.  You either have the disposable income for frivolous entertainment experience or you don't.

SAR I

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

More young fans can get into the stadium than ever before in Jets history due to the advent of StubHub.

And keep in mind that a $35 Shea Stadium ticket in 1980 is the equivalent of $108 today, you can buy face value tickets from the Jets for $75 in the upper deck or go to almost any game for under $100 using internet ticket sites.  When I sell my seats on Stubhub for $50 to a lame game, that's the equivalent of $16 in 1980.

Nothing has changed for young people except cheaper tickets easily accessible on mobile devices in realtime.

SAR I

Tickets were never $35 at Shea.  Don't think they went over $20 until we played in the Meadowlands

$11 dollars per ticket in 1977, $88 for the entire season ticket plan. 

[SAR I]

16 hours ago, FlaJetsFan said:

Interesting how this thread seems to have (d)evolved into a discussion about PSL tickets and making  friends at an NFL stadium.  I remember when Fireman Ed and his brother (who according to my wife actually looked like Paul McCartney when he was young) first showed up at Shea a couple of rows behind us  (our seats were midfield), rows 1-4.  you see, we were from a family that was one of those very early supporters of the Jets that certain individuals whom I will not namecheck seems to loathe so much. Jeez were the two of them loud, and pretty obnoxious too.  Luckily directly behind was a nice and always extremely well-dressed couple who happened to be black and who, after a few seasons of seeing each other on Sundays, well we started every now and then having dinner once in a while at each other's homes, and we sometimes did this too with the parents of some of the teenage Irish louts our age from the Bronx (i can proudly say that I married into such a family!).  it was great.  we pretty much knew every one in our section at Shea, and not once over the years did we trade tickets for money or sell them them to brokers or anything like that as has been claimed here, just give them to friends or relatives if we could not make it for some reason.  we had season tickets because we supported the jets from the begining, not because we were rich.  it would be unthinkable and extremely poor manners for a jets fan from that era (say, the 1970s at Shea) to brag that they had tickets because they were "rich."  rich did not enter into the equation. i am not at all a fisticuffs guy, but talking about being some kind of rich guy most likely IRL at Shea back then would have landed you with your head in a urinal particulary after a few beers were had by some of those young Irish louts, an action i would never of course have engaged in or supported even though i am 6'3" and weigh about 265 lbs and am still in pretty good shape now as i was then except then I could hold my own playing basketball on the tar courts with no nets in Manhattan.  all we were was the sons and daughters and inlaws of that contingent of fans (my wife's father was a minor Irish pol in Westchester) who full throatedly supported the the NYJ for decades.  too bad that seems to be something that is being badmouthed in Jets Nation by some.

We paint with a broad brush in stadium threads, and it appears you were one of the few who didn't run a racket profiteering on the backs of waitlisters by selling your seats to brokers and you should be commended for that.  Apologies if I offended you, wasn't my intention.

That said, again, it's not about being "rich".  It's merely a matter of how one prioritizes discretionary spending.  I don't smoke, I don't drink, I don't have a dog, so what I spend on PSL's and season tickets costs me less than what someone with those types of habits spends each year on his vices.  Anyone can afford Jets tickets, it's not some country club with an iron gate, it's quite inclusive.  The only nuance that one gets by being a season ticket holder today is the ability to sit next to a consistent set of fans who become friends over the years, no different than you experienced with your extremely well-dressed black friends back in the day.

SAR I

[JustInFudge]

18 hours ago, SAR I said:

If you recall, back in 2009 the Jets allowed fans to relocate to other PSL sections as long as it cost the same or greater, a portion of those people may have taken advantage of that option for just this reason.

We use the term "rich" around here in a joking manner I hope.  The math on PSL's over the 30 year life of the agreement was as low as $7 per game.  Using my seats as an example, who exactly cares about $16,000 in PSL fees when I'm committing to over $200,000 in gameday tickets and parking?  It's 8%.  It's $13 a game.  It's a beer and a hot dog.  And it's money I spent in 2008.  Do you remember how much you spent on vacations in 2008?  Veteranarian fees for your dog the past 30 years? 

For reference, a pack-a-day smoker spends $5,500 a year on a habit that is deadly, I don't see anyone soapboxing about that.  PSL money spent in 2008 isn't anything anyone needs to concern themselves with.

SAR I

Gotcha.  That's a nice option.  It would suck getting stuck next to sh*tty people.

You dont seem to be joking when you flaunt your money, just FYI.  And I really dont care how you spend that money.  So no need to justify your investment to me.  To each their own. Who am I to tell you how to spend your money?  You work for it.  You spend it how you please. 

I have thousands of dollars for surfing and fishing equipment and gear that I barely use but I'm not going to stop buying it.   Most would find it silly and frivolous but I dont care what they think.  Neither should you.

[Bugg]

10 hours ago, batman10023 said:

The jets have upper deck seats pretty cheap.

but you point is valid. We were 23 yrs old when we got those seats.  It would be hard for 23 yr olds now to afford the same seats. 

Not the same. In the 1970s and 1980s you could go to a mess of games of all pro sports and concerts for not a whole lot of money, Teens and 20something students cannot do that today. 

[Maxman]

25 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Not the same. In the 1970s and 1980s you could go to a mess of games of all pro sports and concerts for not a whole lot of money, Teens and 20something students cannot do that today. 

Agreed. Someone said to me recently, you are lucky you have season tickets. Seemed strange because I bought mine when I was 18. But I understand what they meant, they couldn't do the same thing today.

[SAR I]

50 minutes ago, JiF said:

Gotcha.  That's a nice option.  It would suck getting stuck next to sh*tty people.

You dont seem to be joking when you flaunt your money, just FYI.  And I really dont care how you spend that money.  So no need to justify your investment to me.  To each their own. Who am I to tell you how to spend your money?  You work for it.  You spend it how you please. 

I have thousands of dollars for surfing and fishing equipment and gear that I barely use but I'm not going to stop buying it.   Most would find it silly and frivolous but I dont care what they think.  Neither should you.

Thanks, and just to clarify, I don't talk about money or flaunt money unless its in response to someone who [literally or through inference] is calling me an idiot for paying the Jets for a PSL.

No one wants to pay more money, it's not like the day in 2008 when I got the PSL bill I was thrilled.  But when challenged, the only way to explain to people why it wasn't some devastating financial moment is because I could afford it.  And then they stereotype me as a disconnected rich guy.  And then they tell me I sit in my khaki's and check the market on my iPhone instead of watching the game.  And then they tell me I don't cheer loudly enough.  And when I decide that my son's first start as a varsity goaltender takes priority over a Sunday night game they tell me I'm a bad fan because a Dolphin fan bought my seats.  And then they soapbox about society and financial inequality.  If they stop throwing their poverty in my face I'll stop throwing my wealth in theirs.  Looking for pity for what one cannot afford is just as tasteless as bragging about what one can afford in my book.  Hypocrisy at its finest.

And as you state, no one creates threads and calls you out about your fishing hobby and the related expense, no one calls out a pack-a-day smoker for his $5,500 expense, so no one should call out PSL holders either.  In a metropolitan area with 20 million people, it only took 16,000 people to write PSL checks to lock up 45,000 non-Club non-Upper Deck seats at MetLife.  It's not a lot of people if you think about it, and it's not a lot of money if you think about it.  I think a ton more than 16,000 people pay an average of $533 a year on fishing, for example, which is what my PSL's cost.

SAR I

[whodeawhodat]

19 hours ago, SAR I said:

Not defensive, just surprised that ex-season ticket holders aren't recognizing the #1 reason anyone gets season tickets-  to sit next to a consistent group of people they like.

As for road games, the #1 reason people attend those is to play the contrarian, it's fun to dress up and get attention as a bad-guy, instead of Batman you play the Penguin, it's spicy.

Either way, telling loyal Jets fans who put their money where their mouths are that the stadium they call home 10 days a year a "sh-thole" is inappropriate.  Go pick on the fans of 31 other teams, have at it.  Not sure why you think it's cool to bring friendly fire on your own kind.  Having money is a crime to you?  Liking our stadium is a bad thing to you?

SAR I

The reason I would attend a road game is that it is closer than NY, like Miami or once every few years they come to Tampa.  And I dont go to be a contrarian, i go because I am a Jets fan.  

One last thought on this matter as well, if think you dont have that one annoying pain in the arse fan in your section, you just may be that fan, just saying...

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, Bugg said:

Not the same. In the 1970s and 1980s you could go to a mess of games of all pro sports and concerts for not a whole lot of money, Teens and 20something students cannot do that today. 

This $13.00 endzone mezzanine seat in Shea Stadium would cost $40.09 in today's dollars. 

The last 5 years I could literally show you 3,000+ seats per game where fans could get similar or superior views in MetLife for any Jets game against any opponent for even less than that.

More teens and twenty-something's can get to Jets games affordably than at any time in team history.  When I was 18 the only way to get Jets tickets was through a broker in Newsday or a scalper in a parking lot.  The internet changed everything.

SAR I

[FlaJetsFan]

1 hour ago, Bugg said:

Not the same. In the 1970s and 1980s you could go to a mess of games of all pro sports and concerts for not a whole lot of money, Teens and 20something students cannot do that today. 

True.  I was lucky to have experienced that.  When I was a teen I watched Bradley and Debusschere and Reed and Clyde in the late 60s at the Garden for 5 dollars a game or something around that.  I dont remember precisely what the Fillmore East cost but it was probably 7 dollars for a major concert and I went all the time in High School and saw all the legendary bands you hear about today and some of the not so legendary ones including The Mothers of Invention!   After I graduated from NY in the mid 70s I rented a large studio on Universtiy Place and 13th street for $227.50 after I got a decent job at Chase Manhattan at NYP down at Bowling Green -- my starting salary was $11.5K annually, and I had plenty left over to go to Irish pubs after work and chat up girls and not just on weekends.  A 5 minute walk or so from my place was Andy Warhol's The Factory on Union Square which was a scene on to itself to say the least and 15 minutes away was CBGBs where you could see bands like the Police and Blondie and Television before they hit it big for almost nothing.  And of course there was always Shea in the Fall on Sundays and witnessing the sad decline of Namath in person as he always seemed to throw 5 interceptions a game... in between the monster TD ones.   You always worried when he went back to pass:  would it be an intercept or an unbeleivably creative completion?  I am not big on nostalgia, which can be the road to drink and regret for NY dudes past their prime in Fla, but those truly were good days, and I believe New York and in particular Manhattan (even though a lot of people today say it was a dangerous druggy sh*thole, then, I never had a problem like that except once or twice in the subway) was a more authentic and affordably enjoyable place for a whole generation of guys in their early 20s even right up until Giuliani turned Times Square into Disney World.  And I have always blamed Weeb even tho he "coached"  the SB (it was Namath who called the game plan all the way, probably the first and to this day the only QB to ever do so, an accomplishment that will probably stand forever, unless you count audibles as game plans) and his unbelievably nasty cheapness and his crippling nepotism that started the long decline of the NY Jets that sadly continues to this day.  Anyway.... yeah... young dudes with not much money in 70s and 80s could take a serious bite out the Big Apple, no problem.

[Big Blocker]

16 hours ago, OH THE PAIN said:

It's not OUR stadium . We share the f-cker . Because Woody is a cheap son of a b-tch !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, the Jets share the stadium, and while I used to call the old one the Meadowlands and never Giants Stadium, I know Giants fans who still call the new one Giants Stadium.

But I don't think the reason is because WJ is cheap.  It's that he was all in on the West Side Stadium option, which I think was the main reason he bought the team, meaning as a real estate play.  But of course Johnson is not a real businessman, so he both failed to understand the opposition to the WSS was unlikely to be overcome, and that he needed a Plan B.  In case he failed.

A GOOD Plan B was not to go into a deal with the Giants.  My own preference since it would have been halfway between that part of the traditional fanbase that was from LI and the newer location in Jersey would have been taking over the Yonkers Raceway site and putting it there.  I thought that was the best location, but there were other options.

Problem was by the time it finally dawned on the not so bright owner that the WSS was not going to happen, he felt he had no Plan B other than going in on the joint stadium deal.

I have never liked sharing the stadium with the Giants.  The Jets are perennial second class in this town, and looking like they can't manage to have their own stadium only makes it worse, and continuing.  Another screw up from the crappy owner.

[Big Blocker]

12 hours ago, Bugg said:

On thing all sports franchises don't seem to grasp; the price of tickets precludes young guys from going to a lot of games, or maybe any games. THAT'S THEIR PRIME FUTURE CUSTOMERS. There may be lots of luxury boxes these days. Now not every seat in the old days got sold, but you are making your future customers view your product strictly as a TV experience rather than a live event. And there are a lot of empty seats for many games. And note that at metLife there are a lot of empty boxes too. And especially for the NFL, could be argued that watching on your TV is in many ways not only cheaper but better. Not sure how that works out for any business. 

Excellent point, it is not a good long term business model.  And it will cost the league in the long run.  But I am not sure what the answer is.

[FlaJetsFan]

3 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

Yes, the Jets share the stadium, and while I used to call the old one the Meadowlands and never Giants Stadium, I know Giants fans who still call the new one Giants Stadium.

But I don't think the reason is because WJ is cheap.  It's that he was all in on the West Side Stadium option, which I think was the main reason he bought the team, meaning as a real estate play.  But of course Johnson is not a real businessman, so he both failed to understand the opposition to the WSS was unlikely to be overcome, and that he needed a Plan B.  In case he failed.

A GOOD Plan B was not to go into a deal with the Giants.  My own preference since it would have been halfway between that part of the traditional fanbase that was from LI and the newer location in Jersey would have been taking over the Yonkers Raceway site and putting it there.  I thought that was the best location, but there were other options.

Problem was by the time it finally dawned on the not so bright owner that the WSS was not going to happen, he felt he had no Plan B other than going in on the joint stadium deal.

I have never liked sharing the stadium with the Giants.  The Jets are perennial second class in this town, and looking like they can't manage to have their own stadium only makes it worse, and continuing.  Another screw up from the crappy owner.

Only a Doofus would think the WSS was a good idea.  It was an idiotic concept from any conceivable angle.

Ditto thinking that sharing a stadium with the Giants was the answer;   But Hess was always distracted with his Libyan oil adventures etc and really did not pay as much attention to the Jets as he did his oil and gas business.

Yonkers Raceway / even that whole Westchester County Shopping Center area (which is where I grew up originally) could have provided a serious opportunity for a visionary owner to keep the NY Jets from continuing to be second class citizens in their "own" stadium in the swamps of Jersey on top of  Hoffa's bones.

But we got Woody, and it never happened.

 

 

[ZachEY]

20 hours ago, FlaJetsFan said:

Interesting how this thread seems to have (d)evolved into a discussion about PSL tickets and making  friends at an NFL stadium.  I remember when Fireman Ed and his brother (who according to my wife actually looked like Paul McCartney when he was young) first showed up at Shea a couple of rows behind us  (our seats were midfield), rows 1-4.  you see, we were from a family that was one of those very early supporters of the Jets that certain individuals whom I will not namecheck seems to loathe so much. Jeez were the two of them loud, and pretty obnoxious too.  Luckily directly behind was a nice and always extremely well-dressed couple who happened to be black and who, after a few seasons of seeing each other on Sundays, well we started every now and then having dinner once in a while at each other's homes, and we sometimes did this too with the parents of some of the teenage Irish louts our age from the Bronx (i can proudly say that I married into such a family!).  it was great.  we pretty much knew every one in our section at Shea, and not once over the years did we trade tickets for money or sell them them to brokers or anything like that as has been claimed here, just give them to friends or relatives if we could not make it for some reason.  we had season tickets because we supported the jets from the begining, not because we were rich.  it would be unthinkable and extremely poor manners for a jets fan from that era (say, the 1970s at Shea) to brag that they had tickets because they were "rich."  rich did not enter into the equation. i am not at all a fisticuffs guy, but talking about being some kind of rich guy most likely IRL at Shea back then would have landed you with your head in a urinal particulary after a few beers were had by some of those young Irish louts, an action i would never of course have engaged in or supported even though i am 6'3" and weigh about 265 lbs and am still in pretty good shape now as i was then except then I could hold my own playing basketball on the tar courts with no nets in Manhattan.  all we were was the sons and daughters and inlaws of that contingent of fans (my wife's father was a minor Irish pol in Westchester) who full throatedly supported the the NYJ for decades.  too bad that seems to be something that is being badmouthed in Jets Nation by some.

So, I read this.  The short version seems to be that you a long time fan, are big and strong and have black friends, and you kinda want to beat up SAR I.

[SAR I]

2 hours ago, Big Blocker said:

Yes, the Jets share the stadium, and while I used to call the old one the Meadowlands and never Giants Stadium, I know Giants fans who still call the new one Giants Stadium.

But I don't think the reason is because WJ is cheap.  It's that he was all in on the West Side Stadium option, which I think was the main reason he bought the team, meaning as a real estate play.  But of course Johnson is not a real businessman, so he both failed to understand the opposition to the WSS was unlikely to be overcome, and that he needed a Plan B.  In case he failed.

A GOOD Plan B was not to go into a deal with the Giants.  My own preference since it would have been halfway between that part of the traditional fanbase that was from LI and the newer location in Jersey would have been taking over the Yonkers Raceway site and putting it there.  I thought that was the best location, but there were other options.

Problem was by the time it finally dawned on the not so bright owner that the WSS was not going to happen, he felt he had no Plan B other than going in on the joint stadium deal.

I have never liked sharing the stadium with the Giants.  The Jets are perennial second class in this town, and looking like they can't manage to have their own stadium only makes it worse, and continuing.  Another screw up from the crappy owner.

The WSS proposal only came into being because of an Olympic bid that was only possible because of 9/11 and it occurred a full 2 years after he bought the team.  Yes, he went for the 2% chance of free land in Manhattan once the Olympics became somewhat serious, as any owner would, but it wasn't the motivation to buy the team.

The Jets Stadium needed to be in New Jersey as we'd called it our home for 25 years and over 70% of the fans lived there.  To ask Giants Stadium fans to travel over two bridges and through Manhattan to get to Long Island would have been suicidal.  And the Manhattan corporations who purchase luxury suites and club seats are cool with a 7 minute drive through the Lincoln Tunnel but would never put their clients through the hell of 30 minutes of traffic to Queens or Yonkers.

Regarding the shared stadium that turned the Jets from one of the least valuable to one of the most valuable franchises in all of sports, the only person who can make you feel like being a Jets fan is 'second class' is yourself.  So stop doing that.  While we are second banana to the Giants because of on-field performance, we are their superiors when it comes to the stadium and the fan experience.  Giants fans are quiet and composed compared to Jets fans.  We bring it every game, they don't.  Besides the Rangers, the Jets have the most ravenous fanbase in the NY metro area, no other football team or basketball, baseball, or hockey team can touch us.  Feel proud about that.  I do.

SAR I

[joewilly12]

Like my new hat buy a PSL and you too get a hat. 

 

[SAR I]

3 hours ago, Big Blocker said:

Excellent point, it is not a good long term business model.  And it will cost the league in the long run.  But I am not sure what the answer is.

The answer is this isn't a problem because young people can get tickets to Jets games more cheaply and more easily than any time in the past.  A $13 Shea Stadium ticket circa 1982 with inflation is a $40 MetLife ticket circa 2016 and there are a ton of tickets $40 or less for every Jets game played.

SAR I

[SAR I]

3 hours ago, FlaJetsFan said:

Only a Doofus would think the WSS was a good idea.  It was an idiotic concept from any conceivable angle.

Ditto thinking that sharing a stadium with the Giants was the answer;   But Hess was always distracted with his Libyan oil adventures etc and really did not pay as much attention to the Jets as he did his oil and gas business.

Yonkers Raceway / even that whole Westchester County Shopping Center area (which is where I grew up originally) could have provided a serious opportunity for a visionary owner to keep the NY Jets from continuing to be second class citizens in their "own" stadium in the swamps of Jersey on top of  Hoffa's bones.

But we got Woody, and it never happened.

This old-time mythology just has to stop already.  None of this is true, it's just what you thought would happen 20 years ago and never did.

The WSS diceroll cost Woody peanuts, we all knew this had a 2% chance of succeeding, he'd be foolish not to take the chance.  Westchester is completely inconvenient for anyone in New Jersey and 70% of the fanbase lives here now considering it's been 35 years since we left New York.  No Jets fan feels second class.  If they do, they are weak-minded and we don't need them in our midst.

Woody has been a great owner.  He made some rookie mistakes on GM's and coaches, as do all new owners, but he spends the money on facilities and all the off-field stuff for which there is no salary cap.  We are lucky to have him.

As for the "Doomsday if we stay in NJ with the Giants!" theory, we have more Jets fans showing up than ever before in our history and we lead the AFC in attendance.  The sky did not fall.

SAR I

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, gEYno said:

So, I read this.  The short version seems to be that you a long time fan, are big and strong and have black friends, and you kinda want to beat up SAR I.

So Pedals lives.

SAR I

[SAR I]

33 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Like my new hat buy a PSL and you too get a hat.

It's not about the hat.  A PSL was a mechanism to rid the fanbase of Giants Stadium cheapskates, profiteers, and freeloaders.

Put another way, if in 1995 God came down and told me that a mere $13 per game price increase could get me into any seat I wanted in a brand new stadium, I'd have fallen to my knees and bowed my head weeping in gratitude.

To 18,000 people on the waitlist, Woody Johnson is a combination of Abraham Lincoln, Moses, and Martin Luther King.  We haven't won a Super Bowl, but he's given us our freedom.  We love the man.

SAR I

[joewilly12]

13 minutes ago, SAR I said:

It's not about the hat.  A PSL was a mechanism to rid the fanbase of Giants Stadium cheapskates, profiteers, and freeloaders.

Put another way, if in 1995 God came down and told me that a mere $13 per game price increase could get me into any seat I wanted in a brand new stadium, I'd have fallen to my knees and bowed my head weeping in gratitude.

To 18,000 people on the waitlist, Woody Johnson is a combination of Abraham Lincoln, Moses, and Martin Luther King.  We haven't won a Super Bowl, but he's given us our freedom.  We love the man.

SAR I

SAR I those cheapskates, profiteers and freeloaders supported the team for many bad seasons we too paid for preseason football attended every game during the 1-15 season all while not allowed to sell our game tickets for fear of losing them unlike now. 

Ironically there was a waiting a list the UD was full and there were no ticket discounts, incentives or rewards programs or lanyards like there is now. 

The PSL's put money in Woody's account and helped pay off the stadium debt that shouldn't be considering  theres 20 home NFL games at MetLife. 

MetLife should be a mecca stadium and sadly its not. 

How do you feel about the Jets selling single game tickets in the PSL zone for equal or less money than you are paying to be there. 

There were no TV commercials advertising tickets no first responder nights, no military service nights no bring your dog to the stadium days fans attended and filled that stadium unlike now there were also a lot less opposing teams fans as well. 

The PSL worked for you it didnt work for everyone and its not working as smoothly as you portray it to be. 

joewilly12 

[SAR I]

14 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

SAR I those cheapskates, profiteers and freeloaders supported the team for many bad seasons we too paid for preseason football attended every game during the 1-15 season all while not allowed to sell our game tickets for fear of losing them unlike now. 

Ironically there was a waiting a list the UD was full and there were no ticket discounts, incentives or rewards programs like there is now. 

The PSL's put money in Woody's account and helped pay off the stadium debt that shouldn't be considering  theres 20 home NFL games at MetLife. 

How do you feel about the Jets selling single game tickets in the PSL zone for equal or less money than you are paying to be there. 

There were no TV commercials advertising tickets no first responder nights, no military service nights no bring your dog to the stadium days fans attended and filled that stadium unlike now there were also a lot less opposing teams fans as well. 

The PSL worked for you it didnt work for everyone and its not working as smoothly as you portray it to be. 

joewilly12 

Old Time Fans:  Yes, they were loyal fans.  They had it great for 30 years.  Now it's our turn.  Be happy for us.  You have the right to complain in 2040 which is the year that I'd have been in great seats for the length of time that you were.  That's the date that we start to see some unfairness.  Until then, we deserve your seats.

Stadium Debt:  Who cares?  The team is not in default.  My ticket prices increased $5 in 8 years.  If Woody makes more money and it allows him to continue to make the Jets a first-class player-friendly organization for which we can attract top free agent and coaching talent, great.

Single Game PSL Tickets:  Unlike you, I am not full of resentment, I'm not selfish.  I paid a fair price for PSL's in 2009 and I am content.  If new fans get single games with no PSL fee, I'm good with it, the more Jets fans the better, if it helps young fans join the family, even better.

Opposing Teams:  This is a fact of live in the United States now and it has nothing to do with the Jets or their fanbase.  I'm sure you saw what went down in Cleveland the past two days, the joint was 50% Cubs fans off Stubhub in a stadium full of fans starving for a World Championship since 1948.

PSL Success:  The stadium is filled with more Jets fans than ever in our history, we lead the AFC in attendance for 7 consecutive years, besides some scattered seats the PSL process was a rousing success.  What you have in the stadium today are fans grateful for the opportunity to finally have seats in our own name.  What used to be there wasn't grateful for anything, they had a feeling of entitlement, of privalege, and it was unfair.  That's been corrected.  It's our turn now.  Enjoy the couchlist.  You can complain in 2040 when you've paid your dues for the 30 years of easy-living and free tickets Leon Hess provided you.

SAR I

 

[joewilly12]

5 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Old Time Fans:  Yes, they were loyal fans.  They had it great for 30 years.  Now it's our turn.  Be happy for us.  You have the right to complain in 2040 which is the year that I'd have been in great seats for the length of time that you were.  That's the date that we start to see some unfairness.  Until then, we deserve your seats.

Stadium Debt:  Who cares?  The team is not in default.  My ticket prices increased $5 in 8 years.  If Woody makes more money and it allows him to continue to make the Jets a first-class player-friendly organization for which we can attract top free agent and coaching talent, great.

Single Game PSL Tickets:  Unlike you, I am not full of resentment, I'm not selfish.  I paid a fair price for PSL's in 2009 and I am content.  If new fans get single games with no PSL fee, I'm good with it, the more Jets fans the better, if it helps young fans join the family, even better.

Opposing Teams:  This is a fact of live in the United States now and it has nothing to do with the Jets or their fanbase.  I'm sure you saw what went down in Cleveland the past two days, the joint was 50% Cubs fans off Stubhub in a stadium full of fans starving for a World Championship since 1948.

PSL Success:  The stadium is filled with more Jets fans than ever in our history, we lead the AFC in attendance for 7 consecutive years, besides some scattered seats the PSL process was a rousing success.  What you have in the stadium today are fans grateful for the opportunity to finally have seats in our own name.  What used to be there wasn't grateful for anything, they had a feeling of entitlement, of privalege, and it was unfair.  That's been corrected.  It's our turn now.  Enjoy the couchlist.  You can complain in 2040 when you've paid your dues for the 30 years of easy-living and free tickets Leon Hess provided you.

SAR I

 

No one including myself is saying that you dont deserve your tickets of course you deserve them you paid for them. 

My point is the PSL's arent all that successful like you want everyone to believe. 

Pre PSL there were more Jets fans in the seats at home games. 

Im very thankful for the 20+ years I had my season tickets many many great memories. 

joewilly12 

[Big Blocker]

56 minutes ago, SAR I said:

The WSS proposal only came into being because of an Olympic bid that was only possible because of 9/11 and it occurred a full 2 years after he bought the team.  Yes, he went for the 2% chance of free land in Manhattan once the Olympics became somewhat serious, as any owner would, but it wasn't the motivation to buy the team.

The Jets Stadium needed to be in New Jersey as we'd called it our home for 25 years and over 70% of the fans lived there.  To ask Giants Stadium fans to travel over two bridges and through Manhattan to get to Long Island would have been suicidal.  And the Manhattan corporations who purchase luxury suites and club seats are cool with a 7 minute drive through the Lincoln Tunnel but would never put their clients through the hell of 30 minutes of traffic to Queens or Yonkers.

Regarding the shared stadium that turned the Jets from one of the least valuable to one of the most valuable franchises in all of sports, the only person who can make you feel like being a Jets fan is 'second class' is yourself.  So stop doing that.  While we are second banana to the Giants because of on-field performance, we are their superiors when it comes to the stadium and the fan experience.  Giants fans are quiet and composed compared to Jets fans.  We bring it every game, they don't.  Besides the Rangers, the Jets have the most ravenous fanbase in the NY metro area, no other football team or basketball, baseball, or hockey team can touch us.  Feel proud about that.  I do.

SAR I

I disagree that there was no talk about NYC being an Olympic site before 9/11.  The bid was organized by the company NYC 2012, Inc.  Which was formed in 1998, two years before 9/11.  Here's a link to the Bloomberg report on it:

http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=5343883

according to Wikipedia the idea in fact went back to 1994, but you can look that up yourself. 

I have no idea where you come up with the stat that 70% of Jet fans live in New Jersey.  I doubt it.

And as far as the shared stadium is concerned, I am not primarily concerned about how much more money Woody made going that route. I am talking about what it means for the fans.  And as for the fans the experience is not limited to how other fans behave when they attend games.  It is more involved than that, and yes in NYC compared to the Giants the Jets are not generally viewed as at the same level of identification with the City and the area, and it is not my attitude that makes that so.

[FlaJetsFan]

1 hour ago, gEYno said:

So, I read this.  The short version seems to be that you a long time fan, are big and strong and have black friends, and you kinda want to beat up SAR I.

LMAO.

[Big Blocker]

^

Further on the lead up to the joint stadium...

However great the joint stadium idea turned out to be, or not, it CLEARLY was not what Woody wanted to do in the first place.  That was the WSS, and for all the problems associated with it, it was not a joint deal with the Giants, and was not in New Jersey, and was what Woody wanted as his Plan A.

It was not until June 6, 2005 that the deal was effectively scuttled, and before that Woody was all in on getting the WSS.  The point being that when he lost on the WSS, and the clock was ticking on the offer from the Giants, he had not laid any groundwork for an alternative.

Just another example of how Johnson is not really an effective businessman.

The fact that the Jets have gone up in value on paper is because of other things than what Woody did and didn't do, but at a minimum the point that the joint stadium has whatever value it has is irrelevant, since it is not what Woody wanted.

As far as getting to the stadium is concerned, admittedly when there rarely is no traffic, Yonkers Raceway is a short drive from the GW Bridge.  It probably is just as close in average drive time as the WSS would have been, but yes I recognize the plan was there would be ferries from parking lots in Jersey rather than expecting Jersey fans to drive. Personally I thought that was an unwieldy and un fan friendly concept.

[FlaJetsFan]

16 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

I have no idea where you come up with the stat that 70% of Jet fans live in New Jersey.  I doubt it.

Hoboken.  That's where these little suckers are nowadays.  Talking about their PSL investment strategies.  Just kidding!

[FlaJetsFan]

4 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

^

Further on the lead up to the joint stadium...

However great the joint stadium idea turned out to be, or not, it CLEARLY was not what Woody wanted to do in the first place.  That was the WSS, and for all the problems associated with it, it was not a joint deal with the Giants, and was not in New Jersey, and was what Woody wanted as his Plan A.

It was not until June 6, 2005 that the deal was effectively scuttled, and before that Woody was all in on getting the WSS.  The point being that when he lost on the WSS, and the clock was ticking on the offer from the Giants, he had not laid any groundwork for an alternative.

Just another example of how Johnson is not really an effective businessman.

The fact that the Jets have gone up in value on paper is because of other things than what Woody did and didn't do, but at a minimum the point that the joint stadium has whatever value it has is irrelevant, since it is not what Woody wanted.

As far as getting to the stadium is concerned, admittedly when there rarely is no traffic, Yonkers Raceway is a short drive from the GW Bridge.  It probably is just as close in average drive time as the WSS would have been, but yes I recognize the plan was there would be ferries from parking lots in Jersey rather than expecting Jersey fans to drive. Personally I thought that was an unwieldy and un fan friendly concept.

the real problem in building in Yonkers was the corruption.  That is the true reason why Woody went to Jersey, even tho 98.5 per cent of Jet fans come from LI, specifically from the beehive cookie cutter towns around the scenic 1964 World Fair area.  No Mafia or corrupt government officials or extortionist unions in the swamps.  Another smart move by the Woodster! 

[joewilly12]

1 hour ago, FlaJetsFan said:

Hoboken.  That's where these little suckers are nowadays.  Talking about their PSL investment strategies.  Just kidding!

PSL Ponzi scam.